"Would bladesinger extra attack work with eldritch knight's war magic?
Extra Attack 6th-level Bladesinging feature
You can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. Moreover, ***you can **cast** one of your cantrips*** in place of one of those attacks.
War Magic Beginning at 7th level, when you use your *action* to cast a cantrip, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action.
My 6Bladesinger/7eldritch knight can essentially "attack" 3 times at level 13?
Its tricky to me because youre using your attack action to attack but your attack action is now allowing you to cast a cantrip as part of your action which triggers the "use your action to cast a cantrip. The wording is not "when you use your Cast A Spell action to cast a cantrip."
Does casting a cantrip within the Attack action count as "using your action to cast a cantrip", for the purposes of features like War Magic? Also, since the cantrip within the Attack action could have any listed casting time, would those alternatives be excluded from this interaction, or not?
Nope, because you did not meet the requirements. You took the attack action which allows you to replace one attack with a cantrip. You did take an action but you did not use the "action to cast a cantrip, you use an attack to cast the cantrip.
RAW this does not interact the way you describe, because the War Magic specifies you have to use your action to cast a cantrip (cast a spell action) not simply "When you cast a cantrip." So since the cantrip from Bladesinger comes from a attack, it doesn't meet the requirements.
Nope, because you did not meet the requirements. You took the attack action which allows you to replace one attack with a cantrip. You did take an action but you did not use the "action to cast a cantrip, you use an attack to cast the cantrip.
RAW this does not interact the way you describe, because the War Magic specifies you have to use your action to cast a cantrip (cast a spell action) not simply "When you cast a cantrip." So since the cantrip from Bladesinger comes from a attack, it doesn't meet the requirements.
But the War Magic feature says "when you use your action to cast a cantrip, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action." It does not say "when you use the Cast a Spell action." A Bladesinger who uses their action to make a weapon attack and then cast a cantrip for their second attack is using an action to cast a cantrip. The Attack action is still an action and War Magic triggers on using an action to cast a cantrip.
Nope, because you did not meet the requirements. You took the attack action which allows you to replace one attack with a cantrip. You did take an action but you did not use the "action to cast a cantrip, you use an attack to cast the cantrip.
RAW this does not interact the way you describe, because the War Magic specifies you have to use your action to cast a cantrip (cast a spell action) not simply "When you cast a cantrip." So since the cantrip from Bladesinger comes from a attack, it doesn't meet the requirements.
But the War Magic feature says "when you use your action to cast a cantrip, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action." It does not say "when you use the Cast a Spell action." A Bladesinger who uses their action to make a weapon attack and then cast a cantrip for their second attack is using an action to cast a cantrip. The Attack action is still an action and War Magic triggers on using an action to cast a cantrip.
This.
War Magic requires that you use your action to cast a cantrip. It doesn’t specify which action it needs to be. So, if you can use the Attack action to cast a cantrip, it will trigger War Magic.
I will point out that an 11th level fighter already gets a third attack, and a 13th level bladsinger gets 7th level spells. Both fighters and wizards have other ways of weaponizing their bonus action as well. By no means is this particular interaction OP or anything.
And you may find a DM that thinks this is too cheesy to be allowed at their table, even if RAW it works - I certainly wouldn't believe that it is *intended* to work this way.
That brings up another question. Since Extra Attack features don't stack, can a Bladesinger/Fighter multiclass make three attacks AND replace one of those with a cantrip? Or do they have to choose between the Extra Attack features from Fighter, which would allow more than two attacks, and the Extra Attack from Bladesinger, which only has two but one can be a cantrip?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
That brings up another question. Since Extra Attack features don't stack, can a Bladesinger/Fighter multiclass make three attacks AND replace one of those with a cantrip? Or do they have to choose between the Extra Attack features from Fighter, which would allow more than two attacks, and the Extra Attack from Bladesinger, which only has two but one can be a cantrip?
They have to choose which Extra Attack feature to use.
So if they choose to use the bladesinger extra attack would it trigger the war magic feature?
A Level 7+ Eldritch Knight//Level 6+ Bladesinger multiclass character can use their Action to take an Attack action, whereby they get 2 attacks, because of their Extra Attack feature from Bladesinger and an option to substitute one of those attacks for a Casting a Cantrip. If they do so, and cantrip/attack with their action, then they have met the requirement of War Magic to use their action to cast a cantrip, and are now eligible to make another weapon attack as a bonus action.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I don't want it bring up old discussions but I flatly disagree in a RAW view. To be clear I would always allow this if I were the DM in question but RAW to me says otherwise.
You must spend your single action to perform a cantrip in order to trigger the Paladin BA attack. If you spend you action making an attack action, even if that action then allows you to use a cantrip, you spent the action on the attack and not on the cast of the cantrip.
Just because the attack allows you to cast a cantrip does not mean you spent your attack action on casting the cantrip; you didn't, you spent it on the attack action.
War Magic:" When you use your action to cast a cantrip..."
You didn't do that. You used your action to initiate an attack and your attack allowed a cantrip to occur. Your action token was spent on the attack not on the cantrip.
Again, super nit picking and I genuinely feel that while I am correct RAW I don't think it meets rules as intended so would allow it at the table.
But an action was used - which resulted in a cantrip being cast. How it gets to that point is irrelevant. There's no nit to pick. The necessary requirements were met.
Frankly, anyone splitting themselves at least Wiz 6/Fighter 7 to make use of the Bladesinger’s Extra Attack coupled with the Eldritch Knight’s War Magic has hampered their own character so hard in the process that I’d allow it just out of pity if nothing else. C’mon folks, think about it, they could just be a 13th level Bladesinger instead….
Or to put the same sentiment a bit more charitably, if you're willing to spend 13 levels to do a specific thing, you ought to be able to do that specific thing well.
It wouldn't work for one reason. They are two different actions as mentioned in Chapter 9 of the PHB under "Actions in Combat". You need to use the ATTACK action to trigger the Bladesinger multi-attack with a cantrip. For the Eldritch Knight, the bonus action attack triggers off the CAST A SPELL ACTION.
I could see a DM allowing it through if they wanted to, rules are just guidelines anyway, DM can change anything they want to.
It wouldn't work for one reason. They are two different actions as mentioned in Chapter 9 of the PHB under "Actions in Combat". You need to use the ATTACK action to trigger the Bladesinger multi-attack with a cantrip. For the Eldritch Knight, the bonus action attack triggers off the CAST A SPELL ACTION.
This is the exact wording:
War Magic
Beginning at 7th level, when you use your action to cast a cantrip, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action.
It does not say you have to use the cast a spell action. It says you have to use your action to cast a cantrip. When a Bladesinger uses their Attack Actionto cast a cantrip it triggers the Eldritch Knight feature.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
It wouldn't work for one reason. They are two different actions as mentioned in Chapter 9 of the PHB under "Actions in Combat". You need to use the ATTACK action to trigger the Bladesinger multi-attack with a cantrip. For the Eldritch Knight, the bonus action attack triggers off the CAST A SPELL ACTION.
This is the exact wording:
War Magic
Beginning at 7th level, when you use your action to cast a cantrip, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action.
It does not say you have to use the cast a spell action. It says you have to use your action to cast a cantrip. When a Bladesinger uses their Attack Actionto cast a cantrip it triggers the Eldritch Knight feature.
While you are correct in what you say, the Eldritch Knight features were written when the divide between the Attack action and casting a spell was absolute.
Since this is now not the case, there is reason to provide official clarification on whether the EK's War Magic feature does function when a Bladesinger's Attack action includes casting a spell or not. If it does, then such a character can make 2 weapon attacks and cast a spell in the same turn, which as far as I know, no other build can do.
Copied from elsewhere -
"Would bladesinger extra attack work with eldritch knight's war magic?
Extra Attack
6th-level Bladesinging feature
You can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. Moreover, ***you can **cast** one of your cantrips*** in place of one of those attacks.
War Magic
Beginning at 7th level, when you use your *action* to cast a cantrip, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action.
My 6Bladesinger/7eldritch knight can essentially "attack" 3 times at level 13?
Its tricky to me because youre using your attack action to attack but your attack action is now allowing you to cast a cantrip as part of your action which triggers the "use your action to cast a cantrip. The wording is not "when you use your Cast A Spell action to cast a cantrip."
Does casting a cantrip within the Attack action count as "using your action to cast a cantrip", for the purposes of features like War Magic? Also, since the cantrip within the Attack action could have any listed casting time, would those alternatives be excluded from this interaction, or not?
That seems legitimate.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Nope, because you did not meet the requirements. You took the attack action which allows you to replace one attack with a cantrip. You did take an action but you did not use the "action to cast a cantrip, you use an attack to cast the cantrip.
RAW this does not interact the way you describe, because the War Magic specifies you have to use your action to cast a cantrip (cast a spell action) not simply "When you cast a cantrip." So since the cantrip from Bladesinger comes from a attack, it doesn't meet the requirements.
But the War Magic feature says "when you use your action to cast a cantrip, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action." It does not say "when you use the Cast a Spell action." A Bladesinger who uses their action to make a weapon attack and then cast a cantrip for their second attack is using an action to cast a cantrip. The Attack action is still an action and War Magic triggers on using an action to cast a cantrip.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
This.
War Magic requires that you use your action to cast a cantrip. It doesn’t specify which action it needs to be. So, if you can use the Attack action to cast a cantrip, it will trigger War Magic.
I will point out that an 11th level fighter already gets a third attack, and a 13th level bladsinger gets 7th level spells. Both fighters and wizards have other ways of weaponizing their bonus action as well. By no means is this particular interaction OP or anything.
And you may find a DM that thinks this is too cheesy to be allowed at their table, even if RAW it works - I certainly wouldn't believe that it is *intended* to work this way.
That brings up another question. Since Extra Attack features don't stack, can a Bladesinger/Fighter multiclass make three attacks AND replace one of those with a cantrip? Or do they have to choose between the Extra Attack features from Fighter, which would allow more than two attacks, and the Extra Attack from Bladesinger, which only has two but one can be a cantrip?
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
They have to choose which Extra Attack feature to use.
So if they choose to use the bladesinger extra attack would it trigger the war magic feature?
A Level 7+ Eldritch Knight//Level 6+ Bladesinger multiclass character can use their Action to take an Attack action, whereby they get 2 attacks, because of their Extra Attack feature from Bladesinger and an option to substitute one of those attacks for a Casting a Cantrip. If they do so, and cantrip/attack with their action, then they have met the requirement of War Magic to use their action to cast a cantrip, and are now eligible to make another weapon attack as a bonus action.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I don't want it bring up old discussions but I flatly disagree in a RAW view. To be clear I would always allow this if I were the DM in question but RAW to me says otherwise.
You must spend your single action to perform a cantrip in order to trigger the Paladin BA attack. If you spend you action making an attack action, even if that action then allows you to use a cantrip, you spent the action on the attack and not on the cast of the cantrip.
Just because the attack allows you to cast a cantrip does not mean you spent your attack action on casting the cantrip; you didn't, you spent it on the attack action.
War Magic:" When you use your action to cast a cantrip..."
You didn't do that. You used your action to initiate an attack and your attack allowed a cantrip to occur. Your action token was spent on the attack not on the cantrip.
Again, super nit picking and I genuinely feel that while I am correct RAW I don't think it meets rules as intended so would allow it at the table.
.
But an action was used - which resulted in a cantrip being cast. How it gets to that point is irrelevant. There's no nit to pick. The necessary requirements were met.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Frankly, anyone splitting themselves at least Wiz 6/Fighter 7 to make use of the Bladesinger’s Extra Attack coupled with the Eldritch Knight’s War Magic has hampered their own character so hard in the process that I’d allow it just out of pity if nothing else. C’mon folks, think about it, they could just be a 13th level Bladesinger instead….
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Or to put the same sentiment a bit more charitably, if you're willing to spend 13 levels to do a specific thing, you ought to be able to do that specific thing well.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
No, because War Magic triggers when you cast a cantrip as an action
Incorrect. War Magic triggers when you use your action to cast a cantrip, which the bladesinger’s Extra Attack feature explicitly allows.
It wouldn't work for one reason. They are two different actions as mentioned in Chapter 9 of the PHB under "Actions in Combat". You need to use the ATTACK action to trigger the Bladesinger multi-attack with a cantrip. For the Eldritch Knight, the bonus action attack triggers off the CAST A SPELL ACTION.
I could see a DM allowing it through if they wanted to, rules are just guidelines anyway, DM can change anything they want to.
This is the exact wording:
It does not say you have to use the cast a spell action. It says you have to use your action to cast a cantrip. When a Bladesinger uses their Attack Action to cast a cantrip it triggers the Eldritch Knight feature.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
While you are correct in what you say, the Eldritch Knight features were written when the divide between the Attack action and casting a spell was absolute.
Since this is now not the case, there is reason to provide official clarification on whether the EK's War Magic feature does function when a Bladesinger's Attack action includes casting a spell or not. If it does, then such a character can make 2 weapon attacks and cast a spell in the same turn, which as far as I know, no other build can do.
Although clarification might be useful, until it is provided, the rules we have can easily be parsed as Saga and Ophid pointed out.