So I have an idea for a character who is a child/ teen. The idea is that they find a magic weapon (a hexblade patron) that when wielded transforms them into a He-man like hero. I'd like to make the physical stats of the "kid form" all 8 (-1 mod.) but all my "He-man" form physical stats equal my charisma stat. Is this way too over powered? I feel like it may be. Is there a compromise I could reach? I know this is already heavy in The Homebrew territory, but I like to stick to the rules as close I can. If you were the ruling DM, how would you handle this?
Since the charisma stat is the only stat you really need to focus for Hexblade you don't even need to boost the others too much. Maybe just point buy your stats out for lows in physical and charisma as higher and then easily just play a normal Hexblade. You don't need those extremely high physicals stats because you just use Charisma. Also, I would argue that a kid would still be fairly dextrous and have a decent Constitution despite your levels unless you were sickly. Kids are known to be nimble and quick unless you are a stronger kid. I would just suggest run a normal Hexblade and just have your Hexblade's Curse make you appear He-man like when you cast it.
Flavor is going to be doing most of the heavy lifting, but when my character needs to do heavy lifting (like an athletic skill check) would my charisma score cover that?
You can as a human variant, get the Prodigy Feat that gives you basically gives you expertise in any one skill you want. It can make up for it. It is in Xanathar's Guide to Everything, a book I heavily recommend getting if you don't already have it. You can easily choose that skill with a human racial choice that comes with the human, variant as well. I presume this kid is a human am I right?
That's an inspired idea Usurper, but now I'm wondering if it would just be better to reflavor a class. My main character sheet would be a Goliath Barbarian, but unless I'm using my "magic" (flavor only) sword and say the magic words I'm a human boy with worse physical stats and no racial traits.
I think a DM could have fun with this, imagen an ambush where a wizard cast silence on me. I'm just a little boy! Maybe there is a Bruce Banner/Hulk dynamic?
I would say if you are planning on the low physical stats to go with something that gives you a way to channel that into something else. You have a good idea to start with on the Hexblade, but don't underpower yourself too much to have a theme. You won't survive to see it to fruition. Good luck to whatever DM will have their way with that character I bet it will be fun nonetheless.
If you're looking for a current class that can be tweaked to do what you're talking about, I would look to the duid's wildshape for a framework- the warlock class doesn't have a lot of room to move features around without breaking it, it's already pretty finely tuned. Multiclass hexblade/"druid (circle of adulthood)", dump all of your stat points into just your mental stats (int, wis, cha), and instead of wildshaping into Beasts, work with your DM to identify some adult Humanoids in the MM that emphasize martial prowess to shape into instead. At level two maybe you turn into a Lord's Alliance Guard, at level four you're a Thug, etc. etc. I think changing the druid's entire spell list would be too burdensome, but you could certainly pick a couple of "circle of adult" spells you add to your spell list at 2, 6, 10, and 14, or you could think about something that equates to Combat Wild Shape, letting you change into slightly tougher CR humanoids, or maybe giving you an ability that lets you assign a raw +2/+4/+6 bonus to a stat while shaped?
I dunno, something like that, that's how I would approach having a special form that turns you back and forth into an adult.
What a neat idea! I don't think I'd have to change anything from Cricle of the Moon, just some thematic spells from the druidic spell list and reskin some humanoids of the appropriate Cr. Really interesting take Champ
Flavor is going to be doing most of the heavy lifting, but when my character needs to do heavy lifting (like an athletic skill check) would my charisma score cover that?
You can as a human variant, get the Prodigy Feat that gives you basically gives you expertise in any one skill you want. It can make up for it.
Lifting heavy things or trying to push/pull things until they break, like ropes or manacles is almost always a simple (no skill) strength check. Those aren't tasks that require training and the only way to lift heavier things is to get stronger.
Well Coder, what I realized is that I could just do a Charisma (athletics) roll should my DM allow it. My Half-Orc does Strength (intimidation) rolls all the time (mostly by angrily breaking or bending swords) so I don't see why this would be different.
Well Coder, what I realized is that I could just do a Charisma (athletics) roll should my DM allow it. My Half-Orc does Strength (intimidation) rolls all the time (mostly by angrily breaking or bending swords) so I don't see why this would be different.
Unless you're trying to lift something with your charm and good looks, I could see why this would be different :P
Well, Charisma is more than charm... it encompasses strength of personality and determination as well (I'll admit that the line between Wisdom and Charisma is a bit fuzzy, just as it is between Wisdom and Intelligence). It's a pretty common experience that athletes and soldiers do better when "pumped up" and motivated, a character with exceptional confidence in their own abilities (high Charisma) might well be able to push themselves to greater feats than someone else with greater raw physical potential but less determination?
It may be a little ridiculous to be so pretty that you can lift a boulder...but hey, its D&D!!! :D
Well Coder, what I realized is that I could just do a Charisma (athletics) roll should my DM allow it. My Half-Orc does Strength (intimidation) rolls all the time (mostly by angrily breaking or bending swords) so I don't see why this would be different.
Unless you're trying to lift something with your charm and good looks, I could see why this would be different :P
The Charisma would reflect that my strength is born of magic not of muscle training. My character didn't earn his strength, it was given to him by his patron (the sword), thus I believe that an athletics Charisma roll would be justified. Don't forget that in D&D will-power falls under charisma's umbrella, that's why sorcerer's cast with it.
I totally get that, but having a class/feature that allows you to do basically anything/everything with your main stat doesn't feel right to me.
A Strength(Intimidation) check seems fine, you use your physicality in order to overpower your foe rather than force of personality. Same goes if a character were to send a bribe letter or other written form of intimidation, I would allow an Intelligence(Intimidation) check.
Lifting something is so inherently physical however, I don't see that working with a non-physical trait. I mean, Athletics goes with Strength most often. Swimming in rough water is Strength(Athletics), makes sense. Swimming say, for a couple of hours non stop in order to stay afloat in a storm would probably be a Constitution(Athletics) role. I get that 5E puts willpower into Charisma and that's fine, but there's a difference between physical and mental willpower.
Strength born of magic would be a bonus to your strength (perhaps a temporary or permanent advantage to Strength(Athletics) roll or something). (Heck, look at the enhance ability spell, that's a "strength born of magic". Same goes for potions/belts of giant strength. I just don't see it work the same way you do.
That said, even though I would not allow it on my table doesn´t mean that it could not ever work. I'm not your DM :P
I totally get that, but having a class/feature that allows you to do basically anything/everything with your main stat doesn't feel right to me.
As I recall He-Man from 30 years ago, just wielding the sword is not sufficient. "Prince Adam" was basically inept at everything until 1) Drawing the sword 2) Going through a ritual that activated the transformation into "He-Man". And, it was a BIG ritual that involved thunder and lightning and shouting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zIoElk3r2c
So if you're trying to stay authentic, and putting it in D&D mechanical terms, he's casting a spell that 1) Has verbal, somatic, and a material component 2) Takes several rounds; that video is 20+ seconds 3) is very loud. To me, that seems like a MORE than sufficient price to pay for getting to use a charisma bonus instead of a strength bonus for an athletics check. Hexblades use their charisma bonuses instead of strength to wield weapons of any size already. Is it really so outrageous to extend that to other things as well?
I'd say using charisma for strength and constitution checks (and probably HP bonuses as well) would be ok. I wouldn't extend it to dexterity, though.
To keep things more-or-less balanced, you could do some or all of:
Remove the armor proficiencies the Hexblade gets. He-Man scoffs at armor!
No spell casting while transformed. He-Man doesn't cast spells!
Transformation can be done once per long rest, or once per short rest if that's too restrictive.
Transformation lasts an hour or some other amount of limited time.
Must keep his identity a secret. No transforming where other people can see it.
I'm sure you can come up with some rules to capture a "weak when not using the sword, really strong and hardy when using it" character without breaking the game.
To be honest, I've never watches He-man, but reading the text for Hexblade really inspired me. I like how thematic it is to melee attack using charisma. Rather than the player wielding the magic sword, the magic sword is wielding the player. I don't think it's overpowered/power-gaming to find creative ways to use different stats for different abilities.
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So I have an idea for a character who is a child/ teen. The idea is that they find a magic weapon (a hexblade patron) that when wielded transforms them into a He-man like hero. I'd like to make the physical stats of the "kid form" all 8 (-1 mod.) but all my "He-man" form physical stats equal my charisma stat. Is this way too over powered? I feel like it may be. Is there a compromise I could reach? I know this is already heavy in The Homebrew territory, but I like to stick to the rules as close I can. If you were the ruling DM, how would you handle this?
Since the charisma stat is the only stat you really need to focus for Hexblade you don't even need to boost the others too much. Maybe just point buy your stats out for lows in physical and charisma as higher and then easily just play a normal Hexblade. You don't need those extremely high physicals stats because you just use Charisma. Also, I would argue that a kid would still be fairly dextrous and have a decent Constitution despite your levels unless you were sickly. Kids are known to be nimble and quick unless you are a stronger kid. I would just suggest run a normal Hexblade and just have your Hexblade's Curse make you appear He-man like when you cast it.
Flavor is going to be doing most of the heavy lifting, but when my character needs to do heavy lifting (like an athletic skill check) would my charisma score cover that?
You can as a human variant, get the Prodigy Feat that gives you basically gives you expertise in any one skill you want. It can make up for it. It is in Xanathar's Guide to Everything, a book I heavily recommend getting if you don't already have it. You can easily choose that skill with a human racial choice that comes with the human, variant as well. I presume this kid is a human am I right?
That's an inspired idea Usurper, but now I'm wondering if it would just be better to reflavor a class. My main character sheet would be a Goliath Barbarian, but unless I'm using my "magic" (flavor only) sword and say the magic words I'm a human boy with worse physical stats and no racial traits.
I think a DM could have fun with this, imagen an ambush where a wizard cast silence on me. I'm just a little boy! Maybe there is a Bruce Banner/Hulk dynamic?
Is that too clunky?
I would say if you are planning on the low physical stats to go with something that gives you a way to channel that into something else. You have a good idea to start with on the Hexblade, but don't underpower yourself too much to have a theme. You won't survive to see it to fruition. Good luck to whatever DM will have their way with that character I bet it will be fun nonetheless.
If you're looking for a current class that can be tweaked to do what you're talking about, I would look to the duid's wildshape for a framework- the warlock class doesn't have a lot of room to move features around without breaking it, it's already pretty finely tuned. Multiclass hexblade/"druid (circle of adulthood)", dump all of your stat points into just your mental stats (int, wis, cha), and instead of wildshaping into Beasts, work with your DM to identify some adult Humanoids in the MM that emphasize martial prowess to shape into instead. At level two maybe you turn into a Lord's Alliance Guard, at level four you're a Thug, etc. etc. I think changing the druid's entire spell list would be too burdensome, but you could certainly pick a couple of "circle of adult" spells you add to your spell list at 2, 6, 10, and 14, or you could think about something that equates to Combat Wild Shape, letting you change into slightly tougher CR humanoids, or maybe giving you an ability that lets you assign a raw +2/+4/+6 bonus to a stat while shaped?
I dunno, something like that, that's how I would approach having a special form that turns you back and forth into an adult.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
What a neat idea! I don't think I'd have to change anything from Cricle of the Moon, just some thematic spells from the druidic spell list and reskin some humanoids of the appropriate Cr. Really interesting take Champ
Lifting heavy things or trying to push/pull things until they break, like ropes or manacles is almost always a simple (no skill) strength check. Those aren't tasks that require training and the only way to lift heavier things is to get stronger.
Well Coder, what I realized is that I could just do a Charisma (athletics) roll should my DM allow it. My Half-Orc does Strength (intimidation) rolls all the time (mostly by angrily breaking or bending swords) so I don't see why this would be different.
Unless you're trying to lift something with your charm and good looks, I could see why this would be different :P
Subclass: Dwarven Defender - Dragonborn Paragon
Feats: Artificer Apprentice
Monsters: Sheep - Spellbreaker Warforged Titan
Magic Items: Whipier - Ring of Secret Storage - Collar of the Guardian
Monster template: Skeletal Creature
Well, Charisma is more than charm... it encompasses strength of personality and determination as well (I'll admit that the line between Wisdom and Charisma is a bit fuzzy, just as it is between Wisdom and Intelligence). It's a pretty common experience that athletes and soldiers do better when "pumped up" and motivated, a character with exceptional confidence in their own abilities (high Charisma) might well be able to push themselves to greater feats than someone else with greater raw physical potential but less determination?
It may be a little ridiculous to be so pretty that you can lift a boulder...but hey, its D&D!!! :D
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Second He-Man thread I read today and I'm liking it!
The Charisma would reflect that my strength is born of magic not of muscle training. My character didn't earn his strength, it was given to him by his patron (the sword), thus I believe that an athletics Charisma roll would be justified. Don't forget that in D&D will-power falls under charisma's umbrella, that's why sorcerer's cast with it.
I totally get that, but having a class/feature that allows you to do basically anything/everything with your main stat doesn't feel right to me.
A Strength(Intimidation) check seems fine, you use your physicality in order to overpower your foe rather than force of personality. Same goes if a character were to send a bribe letter or other written form of intimidation, I would allow an Intelligence(Intimidation) check.
Lifting something is so inherently physical however, I don't see that working with a non-physical trait. I mean, Athletics goes with Strength most often. Swimming in rough water is Strength(Athletics), makes sense. Swimming say, for a couple of hours non stop in order to stay afloat in a storm would probably be a Constitution(Athletics) role. I get that 5E puts willpower into Charisma and that's fine, but there's a difference between physical and mental willpower.
Strength born of magic would be a bonus to your strength (perhaps a temporary or permanent advantage to Strength(Athletics) roll or something). (Heck, look at the enhance ability spell, that's a "strength born of magic". Same goes for potions/belts of giant strength. I just don't see it work the same way you do.
That said, even though I would not allow it on my table doesn´t mean that it could not ever work. I'm not your DM :P
Subclass: Dwarven Defender - Dragonborn Paragon
Feats: Artificer Apprentice
Monsters: Sheep - Spellbreaker Warforged Titan
Magic Items: Whipier - Ring of Secret Storage - Collar of the Guardian
Monster template: Skeletal Creature
As I recall He-Man from 30 years ago, just wielding the sword is not sufficient. "Prince Adam" was basically inept at everything until 1) Drawing the sword 2) Going through a ritual that activated the transformation into "He-Man". And, it was a BIG ritual that involved thunder and lightning and shouting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zIoElk3r2c
So if you're trying to stay authentic, and putting it in D&D mechanical terms, he's casting a spell that 1) Has verbal, somatic, and a material component 2) Takes several rounds; that video is 20+ seconds 3) is very loud. To me, that seems like a MORE than sufficient price to pay for getting to use a charisma bonus instead of a strength bonus for an athletics check. Hexblades use their charisma bonuses instead of strength to wield weapons of any size already. Is it really so outrageous to extend that to other things as well?
I'd say using charisma for strength and constitution checks (and probably HP bonuses as well) would be ok. I wouldn't extend it to dexterity, though.
To keep things more-or-less balanced, you could do some or all of:
I'm sure you can come up with some rules to capture a "weak when not using the sword, really strong and hardy when using it" character without breaking the game.
To be honest, I've never watches He-man, but reading the text for Hexblade really inspired me. I like how thematic it is to melee attack using charisma. Rather than the player wielding the magic sword, the magic sword is wielding the player. I don't think it's overpowered/power-gaming to find creative ways to use different stats for different abilities.