2014 version allows casting powerfull spells at the cost of lower level spell slots, obtaining level 5 spells at character level 9
UA struggles to obtain the same level of raw power, only obtaining 1 level 5 spell via a mystic arcanum at character level 9
The new UA just doesn't feel like the raw power granted by the pact I made.
There is lots of discussion about half and 1/3rd casters, pact magic and invocations and now I'm going to throw something else into the mix, burning spell slots to fuel higher level slots.
At character level 3 gain Pact Magic which enables the warlock to burn lower-level spell slots to fuel additional higher level slots up to spell level 5. The cost of the higher spell slots being the same as a sorcerer creating slots with sorcery points. The value of each slot burnt being its face value - e.g. a level 2 slot is worth 2
Pact Magic
spell level
spell slot cost
2
3
3
5
4
6
5
7
It would mean rethinking the spell progression and I suggest the spell progression be something like the following, with mystic arcanum gained by level progression not by expending an invocation.
total invocations & slots
Level
Invocations
Cantrip
Prep'd spells
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th
2
1st
1
2
1
1
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
3
2nd
1
2
2
2
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
6
3rd
2
2
4
3
1
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
7
4th
2
3
5
3
2
—
—
—
—
—
—
—
8
5th
2
3
6
3
2
1
—
—
—
—
—
—
10
6th
3
3
7
3
2
2
—
—
—
—
—
—
11
7th
3
3
8
3
2
2
1
—
—
—
—
—
12
8th
3
3
9
3
2
2
2
—
—
—
—
—
14
9th
4
3
10
3
2
2
2
1
—
—
—
—
15
10th
4
4
11
3
2
2
2
2
—
—
—
—
15
11th
4
4
11
3
2
2
2
2
MA
—
—
—
16
12th
5
4
11
3
2
2
2
2
—
—
—
—
16
13th
5
4
11
3
2
2
2
2
—
MA
—
—
16
14th
5
4
11
3
2
2
2
2
—
—
—
—
17
15th
6
4
11
3
2
2
2
2
—
—
MA
—
17
16th
6
4
11
3
2
2
2
2
—
—
—
—
17
17th
6
4
11
3
2
2
2
2
—
—
—
MA
18
18th
7
4
11
3
2
2
2
2
—
—
—
—
18
19th
7
4
11
3
2
2
2
2
—
—
—
—
18
20th
7
4
11
3
2
2
2
2
—
—
—
—
At level 9 I could then cast spells at level 5 up to 4 times at the expense of all my other spell slots but dropping fireball at L5 four times in succession at level 9 in the one encounter is probably broken.
Basing it on original Pact Magic and that maybe I got two short rests from my DM for a total of 4 level 5 spell slots per day, how could the above be limited to replicate it without being broken?
Would limiting the Pact to once per encounter you can burn the spell slots be sufficient to balance? Would limiting it to once per day be too restricting, or could it be similar to Channel divinity in terms of uses?
Lastly does this feel more like a sorcerer or a warlock?
Master, master, where's the dreams that I've been after? Master, master, you promised only lies
For multiclassing simplicity Spell progression needs to be easy fractions. They only used 1/2 and 1/3 in 5e, but any fraction could work. This progression doesn’t appear to be fractional so special language would need to be written for multiclassing.
Revisiting this and continuing on with my thoughts as UA7 returned to Pact Magic (+1 minute half slot recharge).
Reviewing the varient spell casting rule from the Dungeon Masters Guide and 2014 Warlock and calculating the spell points and then applying a short rest, returns these values for spell points (one rest, two rests)
It's not possible to do a straight conversion of one half of the wizards spell progression (not half casting) because of the odd number accumulation of slots and having all those spell points to burn off in one encounter I think would be unbalanced.
A one - two spell slot progression is close to the 2014 warlock with two rests (I'm going to cut it at L10 just to make the following table smaller.) Displayed as spell points it looks like this.
Pact Magic becomes something along the lines of...
The Pact you have made with your Patron enables you to burn with power. You gain spell slots at the following rate and your Pact Magic ability allows you to use Warlock spell slots to fuel a higher spell that your Warlock level entitles you to, up to a maximum spell of level 5. You can use your Pact Magic ability a number of times per long rest as indicated on the Warlock table. You regain all your spell slots on a Long Rest
Spell points would be a clearer way of presenting the magic, but peoples are I think welded onto the concept of "slots". For completeness it would look like the following if displayed as spell points
And yes the intent would be that it prevents the use of other slots gained through a multiclass as fuel for your upcasting.
And no, I don't want to play a Sorcerer reskinned as a Warlock becuase DnDbeyond sheet does not support what I want to do with it (inclusive of invocations etc).
Honestly, all the convoluted "solutions" people are proposing for warlock has pushed me more towards the idea that the original Pact Magic is the most elegant solution.
You get slots of a level that allows you to be a blaster (1/2 or 1/3 casters cannot serve this role), and you are prevented from dropping too many big spells in one encounter. If you want some low level slots for utility, you can multiclass for them the same way half the other classes have to. Or you can rely on invocations for this. Or you can suck it up and realize you still have way more utility than any martial class.
Really all I'd like to see is 1) an expansion of Invocations and 2) a revamp of the rest system to standardize things more from that end.
Honestly, all the convoluted "solutions" people are proposing for warlock has pushed me more towards the idea that the original Pact Magic is the most elegant solution.
You get slots of a level that allows you to be a blaster (1/2 or 1/3 casters cannot serve this role), and you are prevented from dropping too many big spells in one encounter. If you want some low level slots for utility, you can multiclass for them the same way half the other classes have to. Or you can rely on invocations for this. Or you can suck it up and realize you still have way more utility than any martial class.
Really all I'd like to see is 1) an expansion of Invocations and 2) a revamp of the rest system to standardize things more from that end.
not a bad way of looking at things. especially since nothing big can be done anyway at this point. a follow-up "free spell" invocation for pact of the blade and another specific to tome would fare well on the polls, i bet.
as for '2),' i feel like if a warlock gained one use of Magical Cunning upon short rest instead of pact slots refresh, it could be worked out. especially if it was downgraded to one slot renewed per MC use (instead of half max slots). just gotta figure the number of MC to start with at that point. gaining one expended use per short rest just lets them keep up 1-for-1 with the rest of the classes getting short rest features and long adventuring days.
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If you want low level slots to burn I think they could just beef up Tome Pact. Pact of the Blade is good and then gets several invocations to enhance it (Thirsting Blade, Eldritch Smite, Lifedrinker). So why can’t PotT have some invocations that give you another 1st level slot and one to give a second level slot?
There has to be choices, you can’t have everything. MC, like scatterbraind said, use your invocation choices for these proposed PotT invocations, or deal with the fact you might have to burn a higher level pact slot.
I like many of the changes they did with this UA warlock, though it does need some tweaks.
PoT could do that and it would be very similar to the above
as to “you can’t have everything”, correct - this removes short rest recharge
its a way of looking at the warlock spells/day as a long rest caster with greater utility
They will never run spell points as a phb system. It is far more complex than spell slots
An alternative solution is to allow the warlock to choose the pact magic number and level of spell slots each time they gain experience. For example, a warlock achieving their 5th level currently increases their slot level to 3, and the alternative might allow them to choose to add a spell slot rather than increase slot level. I have not considered how the math and balancing would work. Spell points might be an interesting solution: each level of warlock has a number of spell points, and the warlock gets to decide the pact magic number and level of spell slots from those spell points when they gain a level.
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The warlock makes a bargain for power...
The new UA just doesn't feel like the raw power granted by the pact I made.
There is lots of discussion about half and 1/3rd casters, pact magic and invocations and now I'm going to throw something else into the mix, burning spell slots to fuel higher level slots.
At character level 3 gain Pact Magic which enables the warlock to burn lower-level spell slots to fuel additional higher level slots up to spell level 5. The cost of the higher spell slots being the same as a sorcerer creating slots with sorcery points. The value of each slot burnt being its face value - e.g. a level 2 slot is worth 2
It would mean rethinking the spell progression and I suggest the spell progression be something like the following, with mystic arcanum gained by level progression not by expending an invocation.
At level 9 I could then cast spells at level 5 up to 4 times at the expense of all my other spell slots but dropping fireball at L5 four times in succession at level 9 in the one encounter is probably broken.
Basing it on original Pact Magic and that maybe I got two short rests from my DM for a total of 4 level 5 spell slots per day, how could the above be limited to replicate it without being broken?
Would limiting the Pact to once per encounter you can burn the spell slots be sufficient to balance? Would limiting it to once per day be too restricting, or could it be similar to Channel divinity in terms of uses?
Lastly does this feel more like a sorcerer or a warlock?
Master, master, where's the dreams that I've been after?
Master, master, you promised only lies
For multiclassing simplicity Spell progression needs to be easy fractions. They only used 1/2 and 1/3 in 5e, but any fraction could work. This progression doesn’t appear to be fractional so special language would need to be written for multiclassing.
Just play a Sorcerer and reflavour your origin as making a pact with some entity!
Revisiting this and continuing on with my thoughts as UA7 returned to Pact Magic (+1 minute half slot recharge).
Reviewing the varient spell casting rule from the Dungeon Masters Guide and 2014 Warlock and calculating the spell points and then applying a short rest, returns these values for spell points (one rest, two rests)
It's not possible to do a straight conversion of one half of the wizards spell progression (not half casting) because of the odd number accumulation of slots and having all those spell points to burn off in one encounter I think would be unbalanced.
A one - two spell slot progression is close to the 2014 warlock with two rests (I'm going to cut it at L10 just to make the following table smaller.) Displayed as spell points it looks like this.
Displayed as spell slots it looks like
Pact Magic becomes something along the lines of...
The Pact you have made with your Patron enables you to burn with power. You gain spell slots at the following rate and your Pact Magic ability allows you to use Warlock spell slots to fuel a higher spell that your Warlock level entitles you to, up to a maximum spell of level 5. You can use your Pact Magic ability a number of times per long rest as indicated on the Warlock table. You regain all your spell slots on a Long Rest
Spell points would be a clearer way of presenting the magic, but peoples are I think welded onto the concept of "slots". For completeness it would look like the following if displayed as spell points
And yes the intent would be that it prevents the use of other slots gained through a multiclass as fuel for your upcasting.
And no, I don't want to play a Sorcerer reskinned as a Warlock becuase DnDbeyond sheet does not support what I want to do with it (inclusive of invocations etc).
Anyway - I was bored and i'm just spitballing
Honestly, all the convoluted "solutions" people are proposing for warlock has pushed me more towards the idea that the original Pact Magic is the most elegant solution.
You get slots of a level that allows you to be a blaster (1/2 or 1/3 casters cannot serve this role), and you are prevented from dropping too many big spells in one encounter. If you want some low level slots for utility, you can multiclass for them the same way half the other classes have to. Or you can rely on invocations for this. Or you can suck it up and realize you still have way more utility than any martial class.
Really all I'd like to see is 1) an expansion of Invocations and 2) a revamp of the rest system to standardize things more from that end.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
not a bad way of looking at things. especially since nothing big can be done anyway at this point. a follow-up "free spell" invocation for pact of the blade and another specific to tome would fare well on the polls, i bet.
as for '2),' i feel like if a warlock gained one use of Magical Cunning upon short rest instead of pact slots refresh, it could be worked out. especially if it was downgraded to one slot renewed per MC use (instead of half max slots). just gotta figure the number of MC to start with at that point. gaining one expended use per short rest just lets them keep up 1-for-1 with the rest of the classes getting short rest features and long adventuring days.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
I would value seeing Patron Spells become Patron Invocations, where some invocations belong to the subclass.
If you want low level slots to burn I think they could just beef up Tome Pact. Pact of the Blade is good and then gets several invocations to enhance it (Thirsting Blade, Eldritch Smite, Lifedrinker). So why can’t PotT have some invocations that give you another 1st level slot and one to give a second level slot?
There has to be choices, you can’t have everything. MC, like scatterbraind said, use your invocation choices for these proposed PotT invocations, or deal with the fact you might have to burn a higher level pact slot.
I like many of the changes they did with this UA warlock, though it does need some tweaks.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
PoT could do that and it would be very similar to the above
as to “you can’t have everything”, correct - this removes short rest recharge
its a way of looking at the warlock spells/day as a long rest caster with greater utility
They will never run spell points as a phb system. It is far more complex than spell slots
An alternative solution is to allow the warlock to choose the pact magic number and level of spell slots each time they gain experience. For example, a warlock achieving their 5th level currently increases their slot level to 3, and the alternative might allow them to choose to add a spell slot rather than increase slot level. I have not considered how the math and balancing would work. Spell points might be an interesting solution: each level of warlock has a number of spell points, and the warlock gets to decide the pact magic number and level of spell slots from those spell points when they gain a level.