Why would an adventurer even want a hammock? I don't see them as particularly having any advantage over a bedroll, maybe more comfortable but vastly less convenient. If it rains, you can put a bedroll in a tent, if you're in a cave you can just put it on the floor or if it's windy you aren't constantly going to be tossed out of it. Also if you get a basic wagon and horse, you can sleep in that with a bedroll.
So I'd have to ask the question, why would an adventurer even want a hammock?
So I'd have to ask the question, why would an adventurer even want a hammock?
Have you ever slept in a hammock? It can be pretty nice.
In terms of execution, I'd just let someone call a bedroll a hammock instead.
I noted it is more comfortable but it fails so hard on most practical uses on an actual adventure, you'd need to either carry poles (like 4 quarterstaffs and 2 longer ones) or find specific points every time where you could tie it up. If you're in the woods might be possible but if the weather is not ideal then you want to be in a tent and putting a hammock in a tent, quiet difficult. Basically a Hammock is just extra luggage that makes no sense for an adventurer that is trying to manage supplies on a need/weight basis, since you'll need a normal bedroll anyway for the 80% of the time you can't use a hammock.
So I'd have to ask the question, why would an adventurer even want a hammock?
Have you ever slept in a hammock? It can be pretty nice.
In terms of execution, I'd just let someone call a bedroll a hammock instead.
I noted it is more comfortable but it fails so hard on most practical uses on an actual adventure, you'd need to either carry poles (like 4 quarterstaffs and 2 longer ones) or find specific points every time where you could tie it up. If you're in the woods might be possible but if the weather is not ideal then you want to be in a tent and putting a hammock in a tent, quiet difficult. Basically a Hammock is just extra luggage that makes no sense for an adventurer that is trying to manage supplies on a need/weight basis, since you'll need a normal bedroll anyway for the 80% of the time you can't use a hammock.
You’re already carrying some kind of poles for a tent. Why not a hammock? Sure you can’t use it most of the time, but then sometimes you can, and you get to say, sweet, I’m in my hammock. It’s an rp choice, and how many people even bother with encumbrance.
So I'd have to ask the question, why would an adventurer even want a hammock?
Have you ever slept in a hammock? It can be pretty nice.
In terms of execution, I'd just let someone call a bedroll a hammock instead.
I noted it is more comfortable but it fails so hard on most practical uses on an actual adventure, you'd need to either carry poles (like 4 quarterstaffs and 2 longer ones) or find specific points every time where you could tie it up. If you're in the woods might be possible but if the weather is not ideal then you want to be in a tent and putting a hammock in a tent, quiet difficult. Basically a Hammock is just extra luggage that makes no sense for an adventurer that is trying to manage supplies on a need/weight basis, since you'll need a normal bedroll anyway for the 80% of the time you can't use a hammock.
You’re already carrying some kind of poles for a tent. Why not a hammock? Sure you can’t use it most of the time, but then sometimes you can, and you get to say, sweet, I’m in my hammock. It’s an rp choice, and how many people even bother with encumbrance.
You can erect a tent from 5 poles, you'd need at least 6 for a hammock if you have nothing else to tie at least 1 end too. A hammock fits only 1 person, a tent usually fits a minimum of 2. If you check the tent for 5e, it specifies it is 2-person. I do not get why people are arguing and fighting for something that makes no sense, it's only a step down from lugging a sofa around a dungeon so you can sit down in comfort as you rest, and I mean this seriously.
The thing about a tent is that you can split up the parts between two people quiet easily, it isn't extra weight for comfort, it's a necessity and a bedroll is a necessity, a hammock is not a necessity, it is a less convenient bedroll that does not work in 80% of the places that a bedroll would and doesn't work in anywhere that there is bad weather. So yes, it's like trying to lug around a couch, extra weight for no other reason than comfort when resting, adventures generally aren't gunna do that, this isn't Family Guy Blue Harvest.
So I'd have to ask the question, why would an adventurer even want a hammock?
Have you ever slept in a hammock? It can be pretty nice.
In terms of execution, I'd just let someone call a bedroll a hammock instead.
I noted it is more comfortable but it fails so hard on most practical uses on an actual adventure, you'd need to either carry poles (like 4 quarterstaffs and 2 longer ones) or find specific points every time where you could tie it up. If you're in the woods might be possible but if the weather is not ideal then you want to be in a tent and putting a hammock in a tent, quiet difficult. Basically a Hammock is just extra luggage that makes no sense for an adventurer that is trying to manage supplies on a need/weight basis, since you'll need a normal bedroll anyway for the 80% of the time you can't use a hammock.
You’re already carrying some kind of poles for a tent. Why not a hammock? Sure you can’t use it most of the time, but then sometimes you can, and you get to say, sweet, I’m in my hammock. It’s an rp choice, and how many people even bother with encumbrance.
You can erect a tent from 5 poles, you'd need at least 6 for a hammock if you have nothing else to tie at least 1 end too. A hammock fits only 1 person, a tent usually fits a minimum of 2. If you check the tent for 5e, it specifies it is 2-person. I do not get why people are arguing and fighting for something that makes no sense, it's only a step down from lugging a sofa around a dungeon so you can sit down in comfort as you rest, and I mean this seriously.
The thing about a tent is that you can split up the parts between two people quiet easily, it isn't extra weight for comfort, it's a necessity and a bedroll is a necessity, a hammock is not a necessity, it is a less convenient bedroll that does not work in 80% of the places that a bedroll would and doesn't work in anywhere that there is bad weather. So yes, it's like trying to lug around a couch, extra weight for no other reason than comfort when resting, adventures generally aren't gunna do that, this isn't Family Guy Blue Harvest.
First, I reject your premise that a hammock is equivalent to a couch. Anyone who has seen both a hammock and a couch would agree they are not even close to the same either in terms of total weight, or awkwardness to carry. Second, maybe your adventurers aren’t going to do that, completely fair. But I know plenty that would. Why not include it for those that want it.
One of my players loves the lounging lifestyle and has a hammock in his living room in real life. Naturally, his PC also has one of the tree-tying variety. When there are trees around in the game, his PC uses it, when there are not trees around, his PC sleeps on the ground. It may be an important difference in the real world but for the purposes of creating a satisfying RP experience, I just let the player hang up his hammock and swing from it as he banters with the party. Bedrolls and tents aren't a super important thing for this group. They are all hardy outdoorsmen who like roughing it. None of them have tents and if it starts to rain, they just fashion a makeshift shelter using branches and whatnot like the rugged mountainpersons they are.
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For those fixated on the difficulty of lugging around some "huge" item like a hammock, I would like to note that I took a week-long canoeing and camping trip with a group, and one of the folks on the group brought a hammock that he used essentially every night except one, when it rained and he shared a tent. The hammock he had was essentially a net he tied to two trees and I don't think even weighed close to a pound, while taking up almost no space when not in use. It was incredibly comfortable, and the rest of us were all jealous. The idea that this would be onerous to have to carry along as an extra item is ridiculous.
So I'd have to ask the question, why would an adventurer even want a hammock?
Have you ever slept in a hammock? It can be pretty nice.
In terms of execution, I'd just let someone call a bedroll a hammock instead.
I noted it is more comfortable but it fails so hard on most practical uses on an actual adventure, you'd need to either carry poles (like 4 quarterstaffs and 2 longer ones) or find specific points every time where you could tie it up. If you're in the woods might be possible but if the weather is not ideal then you want to be in a tent and putting a hammock in a tent, quiet difficult. Basically a Hammock is just extra luggage that makes no sense for an adventurer that is trying to manage supplies on a need/weight basis, since you'll need a normal bedroll anyway for the 80% of the time you can't use a hammock.
You’re already carrying some kind of poles for a tent. Why not a hammock? Sure you can’t use it most of the time, but then sometimes you can, and you get to say, sweet, I’m in my hammock. It’s an rp choice, and how many people even bother with encumbrance.
You can erect a tent from 5 poles, you'd need at least 6 for a hammock if you have nothing else to tie at least 1 end too. A hammock fits only 1 person, a tent usually fits a minimum of 2. If you check the tent for 5e, it specifies it is 2-person. I do not get why people are arguing and fighting for something that makes no sense, it's only a step down from lugging a sofa around a dungeon so you can sit down in comfort as you rest, and I mean this seriously.
The thing about a tent is that you can split up the parts between two people quiet easily, it isn't extra weight for comfort, it's a necessity and a bedroll is a necessity, a hammock is not a necessity, it is a less convenient bedroll that does not work in 80% of the places that a bedroll would and doesn't work in anywhere that there is bad weather. So yes, it's like trying to lug around a couch, extra weight for no other reason than comfort when resting, adventures generally aren't gunna do that, this isn't Family Guy Blue Harvest.
First, I reject your premise that a hammock is equivalent to a couch. Anyone who has seen both a hammock and a couch would agree they are not even close to the same either in terms of total weight, or awkwardness to carry. Second, maybe your adventurers aren’t going to do that, completely fair. But I know plenty that would. Why not include it for those that want it.
You can reject it, but it literally is the same thing, a couch is heavier but that doesn't change the point, even if adventurers could carry a round a couch, they're not going to because it's unnecessary weight and bulk, why carry something unnecessary? There isn't really a point when you're doing something for a living and your survival often depends on having the right things packed in your supplies.
One of my players loves the lounging lifestyle and has a hammock in his living room in real life. Naturally, his PC also has one of the tree-tying variety. When there are trees around in the game, his PC uses it, when there are not trees around, his PC sleeps on the ground. It may be an important difference in the real world but for the purposes of creating a satisfying RP experience, I just let the player hang up his hammock and swing from it as he banters with the party. Bedrolls and tents aren't a super important thing for this group. They are all hardy outdoorsmen who like roughing it. None of them have tents and if it starts to rain, they just fashion a makeshift shelter using branches and whatnot like the rugged mountainpersons they are.
When there are trees around, it's not raining, it's not strong winds but ultimately a hammock is just a luxury item which really doesn't give the rugged adventurer life experience. Overall, unless there is some really specific reason, most people aren't going to carry around a hammock in their supplies.
For those fixated on the difficulty of lugging around some "huge" item like a hammock, I would like to note that I took a week-long canoeing and camping trip with a group, and one of the folks on the group brought a hammock that he used essentially every night except one, when it rained and he shared a tent. The hammock he had was essentially a net he tied to two trees and I don't think even weighed close to a pound, while taking up almost no space when not in use. It was incredibly comfortable, and the rest of us were all jealous. The idea that this would be onerous to have to carry along as an extra item is ridiculous.
It's not the overall weight of the hammock, it's the unnecessary weight and bulk. But as you have already pointing out one of the very reasons I say it's not something adventurers who are literally going to be looking at things for weight:need wouldn't use one, and that is rain. Ultimately I don't think people are thinking about hammocks using modern materials and methods here so a net would still be the weight of a net and at this point its something you can makeshift out of a net and a rope, which can still be used as a net and a rope.
What people want to do in their own campaigns is fine, but I really don't think there needs to be any official ruling for something that doesn't fundamentally make any sense, like a Hammock. To me, it sits in homebrew and if people want to homebrew it then just have it as an extra bedroll, which already exists, has a weight and a value. Else every luxury item will need to have specific costs until you get to every piece of furniture you can place into a magnificent mansion is on a price list.
What modern materials do you think it takes to make a net? Sure the fibers in my friend's hammock were probably at least partially synthetic, but it was simple enough that it could have been made out of any number of strong natural fibers, such as silk, which is used as a rope material in D&D and so is not out of the realm of possibility. The bulk was negligible.
Rain certainly is a deterrent to its use, but the idea that an adventurer would be burdened by a silk net hammock that would cost a few gold, weigh at most a pound or two, and take up very little space in their pack (I'd say around 0.05 to 0.1 cubic feet as an estimate) is silly. You're right that they would be prudent to pack a tent and bedroll as well in case of rain and they would need a blanket to go along with the hammock to keep them warm.
So I'd have to ask the question, why would an adventurer even want a hammock?
Have you ever slept in a hammock? It can be pretty nice.
In terms of execution, I'd just let someone call a bedroll a hammock instead.
I noted it is more comfortable but it fails so hard on most practical uses on an actual adventure, you'd need to either carry poles (like 4 quarterstaffs and 2 longer ones) or find specific points every time where you could tie it up. If you're in the woods might be possible but if the weather is not ideal then you want to be in a tent and putting a hammock in a tent, quiet difficult. Basically a Hammock is just extra luggage that makes no sense for an adventurer that is trying to manage supplies on a need/weight basis, since you'll need a normal bedroll anyway for the 80% of the time you can't use a hammock.
You’re already carrying some kind of poles for a tent. Why not a hammock? Sure you can’t use it most of the time, but then sometimes you can, and you get to say, sweet, I’m in my hammock. It’s an rp choice, and how many people even bother with encumbrance.
You can erect a tent from 5 poles, you'd need at least 6 for a hammock if you have nothing else to tie at least 1 end too. A hammock fits only 1 person, a tent usually fits a minimum of 2. If you check the tent for 5e, it specifies it is 2-person. I do not get why people are arguing and fighting for something that makes no sense, it's only a step down from lugging a sofa around a dungeon so you can sit down in comfort as you rest, and I mean this seriously.
The thing about a tent is that you can split up the parts between two people quiet easily, it isn't extra weight for comfort, it's a necessity and a bedroll is a necessity, a hammock is not a necessity, it is a less convenient bedroll that does not work in 80% of the places that a bedroll would and doesn't work in anywhere that there is bad weather. So yes, it's like trying to lug around a couch, extra weight for no other reason than comfort when resting, adventures generally aren't gunna do that, this isn't Family Guy Blue Harvest.
without drawing a diagram, my first inclination is that you need two poles at each end, not three. the balance of forces between hammock pulling this way and moored rope pulling that way would leave a third pole with no significant forces on it. one less pole to bring. and anyway you can probably find one appropriately tall tree (even if you can't find a perfectly spaced pair) so now you're down to just two poles. and those might be your spear and backup spear which you were bringing anyway.
I don't know how heavy a two person canvas puptent is, but a four person army surplus canvas tent just can't be less than 50lbs before poles and there's no splitting it up. it's a luxury the mule carries, not a person. but a mule isn't itself a crazy luxury to adventurers. one ten-foot pole and a 10'x10’ tarp per person could work for most trips: one tarp for the ground, another one or two overhead, another for windbreak / privacy / obscure the campfire glow as needed. then, share the space. in a pinch, throw that one tarp over a rope between two anchor points and keep the rain off just one person until backup arrives.
on top of heavy canvas (possibly waterproofed, even heavier) and poles and a not-small not-light not-nylon bedroll, a hammock would seem like unnecessary weight... unless you were bringing it anyway. like because it was also a net for traps and secured travel equipment for wagon load tie downs. nothing like losing your new couch on the highway!
What modern materials do you think it takes to make a net? Sure the fibers in my friend's hammock were probably at least partially synthetic, but it was simple enough that it could have been made out of any number of strong natural fibers, such as silk, which is used as a rope material in D&D and so is not out of the realm of possibility. The bulk was negligible.
Rain certainly is a deterrent to its use, but the idea that an adventurer would be burdened by a silk net hammock that would cost a few gold, weigh at most a pound or two, and take up very little space in their pack (I'd say around 0.05 to 0.1 cubic feet as an estimate) is silly. You're right that they would be prudent to pack a tent and bedroll as well in case of rain and they would need a blanket to go along with the hammock to keep them warm.
hmm, hammocks didn't become popular in europe until well after columbus landed in the west indies and "discovered" people sleeping in nets. I'm not sure that a light weight silk hammock wouldn't be a wonderous item in dnd. replicable, sure, but novel to most anyone who sees it. but, rain isn't so bad. you figure out pretty quick through trial and error how to hang a tarp and how to encourage water to drip away mostly before it gets to the sleeper.
Well, Rum, its good that D&D isn't necessarily set in pre-contact Europe, then. I'd guess that there are other bits of equipment available that are not specifically European.
Your point is well taken, though, that if weather is warm enough to forego a tent, some kind of tarp would be sufficient to keep the hammock user dry even on a rainy night.
What modern materials do you think it takes to make a net? Sure the fibers in my friend's hammock were probably at least partially synthetic, but it was simple enough that it could have been made out of any number of strong natural fibers, such as silk, which is used as a rope material in D&D and so is not out of the realm of possibility. The bulk was negligible.
Rain certainly is a deterrent to its use, but the idea that an adventurer would be burdened by a silk net hammock that would cost a few gold, weigh at most a pound or two, and take up very little space in their pack (I'd say around 0.05 to 0.1 cubic feet as an estimate) is silly. You're right that they would be prudent to pack a tent and bedroll as well in case of rain and they would need a blanket to go along with the hammock to keep them warm.
Most modern ropes that you'd make a net hammock out of will be using Nylon or Polyester, so they are lighter than historical rope and those historical ropes may not necessarily be as strong, so they'd need to be thicker to compensate.
without drawing a diagram, my first inclination is that you need two poles at each end, not three. the balance of forces between hammock pulling this way and moored rope pulling that way would leave a third pole with no significant forces on it. one less pole to bring. and anyway you can probably find one appropriately tall tree (even if you can't find a perfectly spaced pair) so now you're down to just two poles. and those might be your spear and backup spear which you were bringing anyway.
I don't know how heavy a two person canvas puptent is, but a four person army surplus canvas tent just can't be less than 50lbs before poles and there's no splitting it up. it's a luxury the mule carries, not a person. but a mule isn't itself a crazy luxury to adventurers. one ten-foot pole and a 10'x10’ tarp per person could work for most trips: one tarp for the ground, another one or two overhead, another for windbreak / privacy / obscure the campfire glow as needed. then, share the space. in a pinch, throw that one tarp over a rope between two anchor points and keep the rain off just one person until backup arrives.
on top of heavy canvas (possibly waterproofed, even heavier) and poles and a not-small not-light not-nylon bedroll, a hammock would seem like unnecessary weight... unless you were bringing it anyway. like because it was also a net for traps and secured travel equipment for wagon load tie downs. nothing like losing your new couch on the highway!
you have four directions you need to stop the poles moving in, so unless you have a really thick post (instead of a pole, much thicker), you're gunna need to secure the two poles in place so they can not move in any of the potential directions that would lead to failure. A basic tent is going to 5 poles, a canvas sheet and few hooks (could use stones if really basic), nowhere near 50lbs, the PHB has a 2-person tent down as 20lbs, which feels a little on the heavy side but it doesn't state exactly what it's made of.
I already mentioned a net and rope could be makeshifted into a basic hammock, but then you still have a rope and net afterwards, ultimately I don't see any reason why adventurers would have a separate hammock outside of that which they can already makeshift, but a tent is a necessarily when dealing with weather, the tarp you use to protect yourself if you did use a hammock would be probably the one from the tent. This said, most of it all depends on terrain and a hammock is not an all terrain item, it works on boats, forests and woodlands, if you're outside of these environments, it will only become exceedingly difficult to find good locations to hang them. If you're in an old prison, climbing a mountain or travelling near orc territory where packing up fast to hide presence might be preferable, a hammock isn't a good choice.
Well, Rum, its good that D&D isn't necessarily set in pre-contact Europe, then. I'd guess that there are other bits of equipment available that are not specifically European...
oh, absolutely. I find it fascinating that firearms were more likely than hammocks on a historical navy ship before the 1600s. it doesn't fit my perception of history. same as realizing that most of the people who built and then attended church in medieval stone cathedrals commonly lived in mud huts. or that Lancelot would have looked more like a fighter from Tolkien's middle earth or 5th century Rome than a silvery demigod in impenetrable full plate. it's fascinating and always has me second guessing what level of technology a newly encountered town village in the game will be at. access or adjacency to control of magic has a lot to do with it, obviously. but that's my problem. this is about hammocks and I think I changed my vote: someone official should come out and give these a go-by rarity for the default setting. otherwise it gets into one of those player-knowledge debates where we ask "how hard would it be to just...?"
One of my players loves the lounging lifestyle and has a hammock in his living room in real life. Naturally, his PC also has one of the tree-tying variety. When there are trees around in the game, his PC uses it, when there are not trees around, his PC sleeps on the ground. It may be an important difference in the real world but for the purposes of creating a satisfying RP experience, I just let the player hang up his hammock and swing from it as he banters with the party. Bedrolls and tents aren't a super important thing for this group. They are all hardy outdoorsmen who like roughing it. None of them have tents and if it starts to rain, they just fashion a makeshift shelter using branches and whatnot like the rugged mountainpersons they are.
When there are trees around, it's not raining, it's not strong winds but ultimately a hammock is just a luxury item which really doesn't give the rugged adventurer life experience. Overall, unless there is some really specific reason, most people aren't going to carry around a hammock in their supplies.
I am not going to try to grapple over what constitutes ‘rugged adventurer life experience’ - I am just a city boy and couldn’t tell you the difference between a Teddy knot and a hook knot. Totally failed Boy Scouts, scouts honor. I am so not rugged, that I feel pretty rugged when I jog up a dirt trail on one of AZ’s running trails. But my players for the game I am referencing are actual ‘go into the forest with nothing but a single backpack and survive’ sort of folk. I feel pretty confident that they qualify as ‘rugged’ when they want to be. I got one a high quality skinning knife for Christmas and he was over the moon (thank the gods for online expert reviews to guide me).
I personally see ‘because I want one’ as a good enough reason to prefer a hammock to a bedroll and if they feel it isn’t a big deal, who am I to argue? Getting into the nitty gritty about the survival life is actually a big part of the game at this table. In fact, on this specific topic, I mostly defer to them when it comes to describing the forest, what they would need for a proper camp site, how long it takes to tan hide and all the interesting ways it can be done (a bucket of deer brains to cure the hide is something I recently learned at the table), etc. I just set the DC and let them roll.
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What modern materials do you think it takes to make a net? Sure the fibers in my friend's hammock were probably at least partially synthetic, but it was simple enough that it could have been made out of any number of strong natural fibers, such as silk, which is used as a rope material in D&D and so is not out of the realm of possibility. The bulk was negligible.
Rain certainly is a deterrent to its use, but the idea that an adventurer would be burdened by a silk net hammock that would cost a few gold, weigh at most a pound or two, and take up very little space in their pack (I'd say around 0.05 to 0.1 cubic feet as an estimate) is silly. You're right that they would be prudent to pack a tent and bedroll as well in case of rain and they would need a blanket to go along with the hammock to keep them warm.
Most modern ropes that you'd make a net hammock out of will be using Nylon or Polyester, so they are lighter than historical rope and those historical ropes may not necessarily be as strong, so they'd need to be thicker to compensate.
Silk is stronger and lighter than nylon. Silk is used as a material for ropes in D&D.
Edit: I am finding some sources that indicate that nylon is actually stronger, but I am still willing to bet that it would not be difficult to make a fairly lightweight net hammock out of silk that can easily support a person.
What modern materials do you think it takes to make a net? Sure the fibers in my friend's hammock were probably at least partially synthetic, but it was simple enough that it could have been made out of any number of strong natural fibers, such as silk, which is used as a rope material in D&D and so is not out of the realm of possibility. The bulk was negligible.
Rain certainly is a deterrent to its use, but the idea that an adventurer would be burdened by a silk net hammock that would cost a few gold, weigh at most a pound or two, and take up very little space in their pack (I'd say around 0.05 to 0.1 cubic feet as an estimate) is silly. You're right that they would be prudent to pack a tent and bedroll as well in case of rain and they would need a blanket to go along with the hammock to keep them warm.
Most modern ropes that you'd make a net hammock out of will be using Nylon or Polyester, so they are lighter than historical rope and those historical ropes may not necessarily be as strong, so they'd need to be thicker to compensate.
Silk is stronger and lighter than nylon. Silk is used as a material for ropes in D&D.
Edit: I am finding some sources that indicate that nylon is actually stronger, but I am still willing to bet that it would not be difficult to make a fairly lightweight net hammock out of silk that can easily support a person.
Silk rope might exist but it's no where near ideal, silk is vastly more easily damaged than nylon and does not stretch like nylon does (silk breaks instead). Silk is smoother and can be made thin but it's really not an ideal rope material if it's that thin since silk degrades faster than most other materials. You'd have to be constantly having to replace a silk hammock and it'd still be heavier since it needs to be thicker due to lacking the ability to stretch like nylon. Hempen would be a vastly more common material but is weaker, so you'd need thicker ropes. At this is before remembering that we use modern methods in processing silk these days, so that too would likely mean a more fantasy silk would need to be thicker.
You guys carry tents on your characters? Our party sleeps under the stars and cloaks.
As for encumbrance though, while my group doesn't track it really, I've come around to avoiding robes on my casters, and using wands over staves because I can't imagine why my character would carry a 6 foot pole in one hand when he could stick a 12-inch wand in a sheath like a dagger and do the exact same things. I see no reason why a character couldn't carry a hammock if they wanted to though, and string it up between trees when appropriate. It's not something I think needs to be added to the equipment list. if I really wanted to carry one, I'd just ask my DM what he thought was fair, or maybe check an older edition and see if they have one. I'd be kinda surprised if 2e at least didnt have hammocks.
EDIT: Put my money where my mouth is. Neither the 2e or 3e PHB have hammocks. However, both have fishing nets. in 2e a fishing net was 10 sq ft, 5 pounds, and cost 4gp. In 3e it was 25 sq ft, 5 pounds, and 4gp. I'd say buy a fishing net, and fold it over a few times to make your hammock. Then, you can use it for fishing when you need to do the survival meta game.
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Should we add a hammock to the dnd beyond equipment list
pencil it in seems fine. are players carrying so many hammocks that we need official weights on record?
Why would an adventurer even want a hammock? I don't see them as particularly having any advantage over a bedroll, maybe more comfortable but vastly less convenient. If it rains, you can put a bedroll in a tent, if you're in a cave you can just put it on the floor or if it's windy you aren't constantly going to be tossed out of it. Also if you get a basic wagon and horse, you can sleep in that with a bedroll.
So I'd have to ask the question, why would an adventurer even want a hammock?
Have you ever slept in a hammock? It can be pretty nice.
In terms of execution, I'd just let someone call a bedroll a hammock instead.
I noted it is more comfortable but it fails so hard on most practical uses on an actual adventure, you'd need to either carry poles (like 4 quarterstaffs and 2 longer ones) or find specific points every time where you could tie it up. If you're in the woods might be possible but if the weather is not ideal then you want to be in a tent and putting a hammock in a tent, quiet difficult. Basically a Hammock is just extra luggage that makes no sense for an adventurer that is trying to manage supplies on a need/weight basis, since you'll need a normal bedroll anyway for the 80% of the time you can't use a hammock.
You’re already carrying some kind of poles for a tent. Why not a hammock? Sure you can’t use it most of the time, but then sometimes you can, and you get to say, sweet, I’m in my hammock. It’s an rp choice, and how many people even bother with encumbrance.
You can erect a tent from 5 poles, you'd need at least 6 for a hammock if you have nothing else to tie at least 1 end too. A hammock fits only 1 person, a tent usually fits a minimum of 2. If you check the tent for 5e, it specifies it is 2-person. I do not get why people are arguing and fighting for something that makes no sense, it's only a step down from lugging a sofa around a dungeon so you can sit down in comfort as you rest, and I mean this seriously.
The thing about a tent is that you can split up the parts between two people quiet easily, it isn't extra weight for comfort, it's a necessity and a bedroll is a necessity, a hammock is not a necessity, it is a less convenient bedroll that does not work in 80% of the places that a bedroll would and doesn't work in anywhere that there is bad weather. So yes, it's like trying to lug around a couch, extra weight for no other reason than comfort when resting, adventures generally aren't gunna do that, this isn't Family Guy Blue Harvest.
First, I reject your premise that a hammock is equivalent to a couch. Anyone who has seen both a hammock and a couch would agree they are not even close to the same either in terms of total weight, or awkwardness to carry.
Second, maybe your adventurers aren’t going to do that, completely fair. But I know plenty that would. Why not include it for those that want it.
One of my players loves the lounging lifestyle and has a hammock in his living room in real life. Naturally, his PC also has one of the tree-tying variety. When there are trees around in the game, his PC uses it, when there are not trees around, his PC sleeps on the ground. It may be an important difference in the real world but for the purposes of creating a satisfying RP experience, I just let the player hang up his hammock and swing from it as he banters with the party. Bedrolls and tents aren't a super important thing for this group. They are all hardy outdoorsmen who like roughing it. None of them have tents and if it starts to rain, they just fashion a makeshift shelter using branches and whatnot like the rugged mountainpersons they are.
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For those fixated on the difficulty of lugging around some "huge" item like a hammock, I would like to note that I took a week-long canoeing and camping trip with a group, and one of the folks on the group brought a hammock that he used essentially every night except one, when it rained and he shared a tent. The hammock he had was essentially a net he tied to two trees and I don't think even weighed close to a pound, while taking up almost no space when not in use. It was incredibly comfortable, and the rest of us were all jealous. The idea that this would be onerous to have to carry along as an extra item is ridiculous.
You can reject it, but it literally is the same thing, a couch is heavier but that doesn't change the point, even if adventurers could carry a round a couch, they're not going to because it's unnecessary weight and bulk, why carry something unnecessary? There isn't really a point when you're doing something for a living and your survival often depends on having the right things packed in your supplies.
When there are trees around, it's not raining, it's not strong winds but ultimately a hammock is just a luxury item which really doesn't give the rugged adventurer life experience. Overall, unless there is some really specific reason, most people aren't going to carry around a hammock in their supplies.
It's not the overall weight of the hammock, it's the unnecessary weight and bulk. But as you have already pointing out one of the very reasons I say it's not something adventurers who are literally going to be looking at things for weight:need wouldn't use one, and that is rain. Ultimately I don't think people are thinking about hammocks using modern materials and methods here so a net would still be the weight of a net and at this point its something you can makeshift out of a net and a rope, which can still be used as a net and a rope.
What people want to do in their own campaigns is fine, but I really don't think there needs to be any official ruling for something that doesn't fundamentally make any sense, like a Hammock. To me, it sits in homebrew and if people want to homebrew it then just have it as an extra bedroll, which already exists, has a weight and a value. Else every luxury item will need to have specific costs until you get to every piece of furniture you can place into a magnificent mansion is on a price list.
What modern materials do you think it takes to make a net? Sure the fibers in my friend's hammock were probably at least partially synthetic, but it was simple enough that it could have been made out of any number of strong natural fibers, such as silk, which is used as a rope material in D&D and so is not out of the realm of possibility. The bulk was negligible.
Rain certainly is a deterrent to its use, but the idea that an adventurer would be burdened by a silk net hammock that would cost a few gold, weigh at most a pound or two, and take up very little space in their pack (I'd say around 0.05 to 0.1 cubic feet as an estimate) is silly. You're right that they would be prudent to pack a tent and bedroll as well in case of rain and they would need a blanket to go along with the hammock to keep them warm.
without drawing a diagram, my first inclination is that you need two poles at each end, not three. the balance of forces between hammock pulling this way and moored rope pulling that way would leave a third pole with no significant forces on it. one less pole to bring. and anyway you can probably find one appropriately tall tree (even if you can't find a perfectly spaced pair) so now you're down to just two poles. and those might be your spear and backup spear which you were bringing anyway.
I don't know how heavy a two person canvas puptent is, but a four person army surplus canvas tent just can't be less than 50lbs before poles and there's no splitting it up. it's a luxury the mule carries, not a person. but a mule isn't itself a crazy luxury to adventurers. one ten-foot pole and a 10'x10’ tarp per person could work for most trips: one tarp for the ground, another one or two overhead, another for windbreak / privacy / obscure the campfire glow as needed. then, share the space. in a pinch, throw that one tarp over a rope between two anchor points and keep the rain off just one person until backup arrives.
on top of heavy canvas (possibly waterproofed, even heavier) and poles and a not-small not-light not-nylon bedroll, a hammock would seem like unnecessary weight... unless you were bringing it anyway. like because it was also a net for traps and secured travel equipment for wagon load tie downs. nothing like losing your new couch on the highway!
hmm, hammocks didn't become popular in europe until well after columbus landed in the west indies and "discovered" people sleeping in nets. I'm not sure that a light weight silk hammock wouldn't be a wonderous item in dnd. replicable, sure, but novel to most anyone who sees it. but, rain isn't so bad. you figure out pretty quick through trial and error how to hang a tarp and how to encourage water to drip away mostly before it gets to the sleeper.
Well, Rum, its good that D&D isn't necessarily set in pre-contact Europe, then. I'd guess that there are other bits of equipment available that are not specifically European.
Your point is well taken, though, that if weather is warm enough to forego a tent, some kind of tarp would be sufficient to keep the hammock user dry even on a rainy night.
Most modern ropes that you'd make a net hammock out of will be using Nylon or Polyester, so they are lighter than historical rope and those historical ropes may not necessarily be as strong, so they'd need to be thicker to compensate.
you have four directions you need to stop the poles moving in, so unless you have a really thick post (instead of a pole, much thicker), you're gunna need to secure the two poles in place so they can not move in any of the potential directions that would lead to failure. A basic tent is going to 5 poles, a canvas sheet and few hooks (could use stones if really basic), nowhere near 50lbs, the PHB has a 2-person tent down as 20lbs, which feels a little on the heavy side but it doesn't state exactly what it's made of.
I already mentioned a net and rope could be makeshifted into a basic hammock, but then you still have a rope and net afterwards, ultimately I don't see any reason why adventurers would have a separate hammock outside of that which they can already makeshift, but a tent is a necessarily when dealing with weather, the tarp you use to protect yourself if you did use a hammock would be probably the one from the tent. This said, most of it all depends on terrain and a hammock is not an all terrain item, it works on boats, forests and woodlands, if you're outside of these environments, it will only become exceedingly difficult to find good locations to hang them. If you're in an old prison, climbing a mountain or travelling near orc territory where packing up fast to hide presence might be preferable, a hammock isn't a good choice.
oh, absolutely. I find it fascinating that firearms were more likely than hammocks on a historical navy ship before the 1600s. it doesn't fit my perception of history. same as realizing that most of the people who built and then attended church in medieval stone cathedrals commonly lived in mud huts. or that Lancelot would have looked more like a fighter from Tolkien's middle earth or 5th century Rome than a silvery demigod in impenetrable full plate. it's fascinating and always has me second guessing what level of technology a newly encountered town village in the game will be at. access or adjacency to control of magic has a lot to do with it, obviously. but that's my problem. this is about hammocks and I think I changed my vote: someone official should come out and give these a go-by rarity for the default setting. otherwise it gets into one of those player-knowledge debates where we ask "how hard would it be to just...?"
I am not going to try to grapple over what constitutes ‘rugged adventurer life experience’ - I am just a city boy and couldn’t tell you the difference between a Teddy knot and a hook knot. Totally failed Boy Scouts, scouts honor. I am so not rugged, that I feel pretty rugged when I jog up a dirt trail on one of AZ’s running trails. But my players for the game I am referencing are actual ‘go into the forest with nothing but a single backpack and survive’ sort of folk. I feel pretty confident that they qualify as ‘rugged’ when they want to be. I got one a high quality skinning knife for Christmas and he was over the moon (thank the gods for online expert reviews to guide me).
I personally see ‘because I want one’ as a good enough reason to prefer a hammock to a bedroll and if they feel it isn’t a big deal, who am I to argue? Getting into the nitty gritty about the survival life is actually a big part of the game at this table. In fact, on this specific topic, I mostly defer to them when it comes to describing the forest, what they would need for a proper camp site, how long it takes to tan hide and all the interesting ways it can be done (a bucket of deer brains to cure the hide is something I recently learned at the table), etc. I just set the DC and let them roll.
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Silk is stronger and lighter than nylon. Silk is used as a material for ropes in D&D.
Edit: I am finding some sources that indicate that nylon is actually stronger, but I am still willing to bet that it would not be difficult to make a fairly lightweight net hammock out of silk that can easily support a person.
Silk rope might exist but it's no where near ideal, silk is vastly more easily damaged than nylon and does not stretch like nylon does (silk breaks instead). Silk is smoother and can be made thin but it's really not an ideal rope material if it's that thin since silk degrades faster than most other materials. You'd have to be constantly having to replace a silk hammock and it'd still be heavier since it needs to be thicker due to lacking the ability to stretch like nylon. Hempen would be a vastly more common material but is weaker, so you'd need thicker ropes. At this is before remembering that we use modern methods in processing silk these days, so that too would likely mean a more fantasy silk would need to be thicker.
You guys carry tents on your characters? Our party sleeps under the stars and cloaks.
As for encumbrance though, while my group doesn't track it really, I've come around to avoiding robes on my casters, and using wands over staves because I can't imagine why my character would carry a 6 foot pole in one hand when he could stick a 12-inch wand in a sheath like a dagger and do the exact same things. I see no reason why a character couldn't carry a hammock if they wanted to though, and string it up between trees when appropriate. It's not something I think needs to be added to the equipment list. if I really wanted to carry one, I'd just ask my DM what he thought was fair, or maybe check an older edition and see if they have one. I'd be kinda surprised if 2e at least didnt have hammocks.
EDIT: Put my money where my mouth is. Neither the 2e or 3e PHB have hammocks. However, both have fishing nets. in 2e a fishing net was 10 sq ft, 5 pounds, and cost 4gp. In 3e it was 25 sq ft, 5 pounds, and 4gp. I'd say buy a fishing net, and fold it over a few times to make your hammock. Then, you can use it for fishing when you need to do the survival meta game.
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