I love the Mystic. I love the concept. I have always loved me some psionics. The game needs more INT-based classes. But it's pretty well-established that the Mystic is overpowered; if you disagree, that's fine, but that's not what this thread is about.
Has anybody heard anything about them issuing a revision of it? I would much rather have had a new Mystic than the two new subclasses they released, though that's obviously just my opinion.
I agree with you on everything about the Mystic. I think that if a 5e version of the Dark Sun setting were to come out, they would have to do a new Mystic or at least some version of Psionics. But I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon.
They definitely have plans to release the reimaged version of the Mystic, currently known as the Psion, but I doubt it will be any time soon.
It is clear the revised Artificer was much farther along in the development life cycle than the Psion, which needed huge revamps. The current iteration of the Mystic was... problematic... to say the least
I agree with you on everything about the Mystic. I think that if a 5e version of the Dark Sun setting were to come out, they would have to do a new Mystic or at least some version of Psionics. But I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon.
I hope they put it in a more universal book than that. I'd hate to have to waste the money on a Dark Sun book just to get one class.
Has anybody heard anything about them issuing a revision of it?
There haven't been any new revisions and WotC generally doesn't announce future UA content in advance.
Considering how much work it took to get the Artificer right, it shouldn't come as a surprise that they haven't been pushing the Mystic as hard as of late.
Dark Sun is definitely one of the most original fantasy settings created during the span of AD&D 2nd edition. While having a psion/mystic class regardless is preferable, I would not mind buying a Dark Sun book for the added benefit of having a balanced psionicist class for 5th edition, not to mention a playable PC Thri-kreen race.
I'm pretty sure a Revised Mystic will come eventually. Based on how classes are in 5th edition, I don't expect any other Psionic Classes. Those old classes will likely be represented by Subclasses like how the previously presented Mystic had Soul Knife. However, I think they're going to go through a round of subclasses, races, and/or spells first. It might be next year when it shows up.
I agree with you on everything about the Mystic. I think that if a 5e version of the Dark Sun setting were to come out, they would have to do a new Mystic or at least some version of Psionics. But I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon.
I hope they put it in a more universal book than that. I'd hate to have to waste the money on a Dark Sun book just to get one class.
I'm pretty sure Maelstrom is correct. They will follow along the same way they did the Eberron book with the Artificer.
Because the game having seven hundred CHA-based classes and exactly ONE INT-based class is moose manure.
Additional Intelligence-based classes would help with Wizard multiclassing; if Bards, Sorcerers, Palladalldingdongs, and Warlocks (WHICH SHOULD HAVE BEEN INT BASED GOD DAMNIT) all get to clusterhump and create umpteen hundred broken multiclass builds because they all run off of the one same stat, Wizards should have at least one bedmate.
Every other stat in the game has multiple classes that key off of it and which can use it in different ways. I don't honestly like that design in general, but it's D&D so the Sacred Six Ability Scores are a constant regardless. If that's so, though? Intelligence should not be the universal dump stat (don't talk to me about Charisma, y'all know better) with only one sad lonely little class that cares about it.
Because the game having seven hundred CHA-based classes and exactly ONE INT-based class is moose manure.
Additional Intelligence-based classes would help with Wizard multiclassing; if Bards, Sorcerers, Palladalldingdongs, and Warlocks (WHICH SHOULD HAVE BEEN INT BASED GOD DAMNIT) all get to clusterhump and create umpteen hundred broken multiclass builds because they all run off of the one same stat, Wizards should have at least one bedmate.
Warlocks should be INT tbh, but the lack of INT based classes is somewhat balenced by INT being needed for all those knowledge checks.
Charisma-based persuasion/deception checks are just as important as Intelligence-based knowledge checks, especially since the latter can in many cases be overruled by simply finding the information. Neither hold a candle to the overwhelming importance of Perception, which is by itself worth more than over half of the game's other skills combined.
Frankly, while warlocks should by all rights be intelligence-based, the whole warlock thing shines a light on the problem of anchoring classes irrevocably to a single given stat in the first place. Some players would absolutely rebel against INT-based warlocks because they love their dumblocks whose Pacts were accidental, or who don't even know they have a Pact in the first place. Those builds should be valid, but the way the warlock is currently set up, the actual Faustian Bargain archetypes, those who offer services to higher powers in exchange for arcane boons, are at a pretty severe disadvantage.
Yeah. The archetype the warlock is supposed to embody, the thing Wizards built the class to let people do, makes for worse warlocks than playing them as magical barbarians.
Charisma-based persuasion/deception checks are just as important as Intelligence-based knowledge checks, especially since the latter can in many cases be overruled by simply finding the information. Neither hold a candle to the overwhelming importance of Perception, which is by itself worth more than over half of the game's other skills combined.
I think that really depends on your group and how you play. Obviously if you're dumping INT but your characters know everything because the players are looking things up then that's going to devalue the skills that determine how knowledgeable the characters are.
Those builds should be valid, but the way the warlock is currently set up, the actual Faustian Bargain archetypes, those who offer services to higher powers in exchange for arcane boons, are at a pretty severe disadvantage.
Yeah. The archetype the warlock is supposed to embody, the thing Wizards built the class to let people do, makes for worse warlocks than playing them as magical barbarians.
Ugh.
Would you explain this please? How is a Faustian bargain warlock much worse than other warlocks?
A warlock that commits significant resources to Intelligence is a warlock that is not committing those resources to Dexterity or Constitution. Because Intelligence, not Charisma, is 5e's nigh-universal dump stat due to having no value beyond skill checks very few players prioritize, a player who runs a warlock with a high Intelligence score according to the pattern of a power-hungry seeker of secrets and learner of eldritch knowledge is playing with a character that is easier to harm than a player running a warlock with bottomed-out Intelligence in order to maximize other scores.
The mechanics of the class, much like sorcerers, encourage warlocks to lean on charismatic Peoplemancy due to requiring an enormous Charisma score whilst not at all rewarding Intelligence. A warlock with an INT score of 3 is every bit as effective as one with an INT of 20 outside of research and general knowledge, and in my experience finding ways to get the DM to tell you the lore of the world they've built is easier than fudging any other mental score. The DM wants to give players that information, and it can often be found and read for free in books found within the world, whereas Peoplemancy cannot be fudged that way. Nor can the odd and unintuitive grab bag of bull****ery that is Wisdom skills.
From a purely mechanical standpoint, any class that does not need Intelligence does not want Intelligence because it is easily the weakest stat in 5e, despite the large number of INT-based skills. Dex, Wis, and Con are all primary saves; Dex has seven hundred uses both in and out of combat and governs the second most important skill in the game, Wisdom is the save that stops all the game-ending mind control spells as well as governing the most important skill in the game, and Con is Con.
Charisma is the only stat anyone ever cares about when invoking Peoplemancy - you're never allowed to try and use logical reasoning to convince someone, you HAVE to do it with charismatic flair instead. Same for Deception, though somehow Intimidation is the one skill in the game that gets to run off two stats depending on the method used. Speaking of, Strength may be oddly limited in what it can do, but there are many reasons why someone would want a high Strength. Strength is the most common 'off' save, with Intelligence and Charisma saves being effectively nonexistent, and Strength governs many of the more interesting melee combat actions as well as a number of Heroic Moments.
Intelligence? All Intelligence does by the book is let you resist maybe three PHB spells, and give you a slightly better chance to "remember" stuff the DM generally wants to tell you anyways. It's moose piss, aggravates me immensely, and it means anyone who wants to play a highly intelligent and educated character with a powerful brain needs to accept that unless they're a wizard, they are objectively weaker than if they'd gone with any other possible character archetype.
Warlocks included.
None of this has anything to do with Mystics, though. Sorry about that, OP guy.
When the Warlock was first introduced back in 3e, the fact that they used something other than Int was novel. Before then ALL Arcane casting was Int based for everyone including Bards (and if I remember correctly Rangers too). Warlocks use Cha because they are supposedly using their skill of persuasion to convince a greater being to grant them powers. They don’t need to “know” Magic themselves, they just need to convince someone else to give it to them.
Considering how much work it took to get the Artificer right, it shouldn't come as a surprise that they haven't been pushing the Mystic as hard as of late.
Considering how much work it took to get the Artificer right, it shouldn't come as a surprise that they haven't been pushing the Mystic as hard as of late.
Who says they got the Artificer “right?”
I may (or may not) be in the minority, but I think they got the current iteration of the Artificer "more right" than wrong. And depending on what is seen in the Eberron book I'm confident I will be happy with the end result. I think now that the Eberron book (and final form of the Artificer) is finalizing completion, they will move onto Dark Sun and devote more resources on finalizing the Psion class.
Considering how much work it took to get the Artificer right, it shouldn't come as a surprise that they haven't been pushing the Mystic as hard as of late.
Who says they got the Artificer “right?”
I may (or may not) be in the minority, but I think they got the current iteration of the Artificer "more right" than wrong. And depending on what is seen in the Eberron book I'm confident I will be happy with the end result. I think now that the Eberron book (and final form of the Artificer) is finalizing completion, they will move onto Dark Sun and devote more resources on finalizing the Psion class.
This right here. I like the current iteration of the Artificer, it scratches the right itches and follows the design of 5e by having it not be insanely design heavy. It definitely needs tweaks, but they seem to be going in the right direction for when it is official in the Eberron book.
Also, Mike Mearls was working on the revised Psion before his twitch stream went dead many a month ago, and what he had was super promising. It was more of a classic caster that used concentration cantrips to effect different psion specific spells. That way they did away with the troublesome Mystic Points and just used normal Spell Slots but with a twist. We were then going to get all new Subclasses that fit the direction they were going and they were then going to take subclasses like the Soul Knife and Avatar and put them in various other classes. So, Monk would get Soul Knife, Barbarian would get Immortal, and something like Paladin or Bard would get Avatar.
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I love the Mystic. I love the concept. I have always loved me some psionics. The game needs more INT-based classes. But it's pretty well-established that the Mystic is overpowered; if you disagree, that's fine, but that's not what this thread is about.
Has anybody heard anything about them issuing a revision of it? I would much rather have had a new Mystic than the two new subclasses they released, though that's obviously just my opinion.
I agree with you on everything about the Mystic. I think that if a 5e version of the Dark Sun setting were to come out, they would have to do a new Mystic or at least some version of Psionics. But I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon.
Hombrew: Way of Wresting, Circle of Sacrifice
They definitely have plans to release the reimaged version of the Mystic, currently known as the Psion, but I doubt it will be any time soon.
It is clear the revised Artificer was much farther along in the development life cycle than the Psion, which needed huge revamps. The current iteration of the Mystic was... problematic... to say the least
I hope they put it in a more universal book than that. I'd hate to have to waste the money on a Dark Sun book just to get one class.
Why?
There haven't been any new revisions and WotC generally doesn't announce future UA content in advance.
Considering how much work it took to get the Artificer right, it shouldn't come as a surprise that they haven't been pushing the Mystic as hard as of late.
Dark Sun is definitely one of the most original fantasy settings created during the span of AD&D 2nd edition. While having a psion/mystic class regardless is preferable, I would not mind buying a Dark Sun book for the added benefit of having a balanced psionicist class for 5th edition, not to mention a playable PC Thri-kreen race.
I'm pretty sure a Revised Mystic will come eventually. Based on how classes are in 5th edition, I don't expect any other Psionic Classes. Those old classes will likely be represented by Subclasses like how the previously presented Mystic had Soul Knife. However, I think they're going to go through a round of subclasses, races, and/or spells first. It might be next year when it shows up.
I'm pretty sure Maelstrom is correct. They will follow along the same way they did the Eberron book with the Artificer.
Because the game having seven hundred CHA-based classes and exactly ONE INT-based class is moose manure.
Additional Intelligence-based classes would help with Wizard multiclassing; if Bards, Sorcerers, Palladalldingdongs, and Warlocks (WHICH SHOULD HAVE BEEN INT BASED GOD DAMNIT) all get to clusterhump and create umpteen hundred broken multiclass builds because they all run off of the one same stat, Wizards should have at least one bedmate.
Every other stat in the game has multiple classes that key off of it and which can use it in different ways. I don't honestly like that design in general, but it's D&D so the Sacred Six Ability Scores are a constant regardless. If that's so, though? Intelligence should not be the universal dump stat (don't talk to me about Charisma, y'all know better) with only one sad lonely little class that cares about it.
Why you shouldn't start ANOTHER thread about DDB not giving away free redeems on your hardcopy book purchases.
Thinking of starting ANOTHER thread asking why Epic Boons haven't been implemented? Read this first to learn why you shouldn't!
At least Wizards now have Artificers to play with.
@Song: I miss my old Thri-kreen. He kept looking at the party Elf and rubbing his mandibles every evening.
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Warlocks should be INT tbh, but the lack of INT based classes is somewhat balenced by INT being needed for all those knowledge checks.
Yeah no.
Charisma-based persuasion/deception checks are just as important as Intelligence-based knowledge checks, especially since the latter can in many cases be overruled by simply finding the information. Neither hold a candle to the overwhelming importance of Perception, which is by itself worth more than over half of the game's other skills combined.
Frankly, while warlocks should by all rights be intelligence-based, the whole warlock thing shines a light on the problem of anchoring classes irrevocably to a single given stat in the first place. Some players would absolutely rebel against INT-based warlocks because they love their dumblocks whose Pacts were accidental, or who don't even know they have a Pact in the first place. Those builds should be valid, but the way the warlock is currently set up, the actual Faustian Bargain archetypes, those who offer services to higher powers in exchange for arcane boons, are at a pretty severe disadvantage.
Yeah. The archetype the warlock is supposed to embody, the thing Wizards built the class to let people do, makes for worse warlocks than playing them as magical barbarians.
Ugh.
Why you shouldn't start ANOTHER thread about DDB not giving away free redeems on your hardcopy book purchases.
Thinking of starting ANOTHER thread asking why Epic Boons haven't been implemented? Read this first to learn why you shouldn't!
I think that really depends on your group and how you play. Obviously if you're dumping INT but your characters know everything because the players are looking things up then that's going to devalue the skills that determine how knowledgeable the characters are.
Would you explain this please? How is a Faustian bargain warlock much worse than other warlocks?
A warlock that commits significant resources to Intelligence is a warlock that is not committing those resources to Dexterity or Constitution. Because Intelligence, not Charisma, is 5e's nigh-universal dump stat due to having no value beyond skill checks very few players prioritize, a player who runs a warlock with a high Intelligence score according to the pattern of a power-hungry seeker of secrets and learner of eldritch knowledge is playing with a character that is easier to harm than a player running a warlock with bottomed-out Intelligence in order to maximize other scores.
The mechanics of the class, much like sorcerers, encourage warlocks to lean on charismatic Peoplemancy due to requiring an enormous Charisma score whilst not at all rewarding Intelligence. A warlock with an INT score of 3 is every bit as effective as one with an INT of 20 outside of research and general knowledge, and in my experience finding ways to get the DM to tell you the lore of the world they've built is easier than fudging any other mental score. The DM wants to give players that information, and it can often be found and read for free in books found within the world, whereas Peoplemancy cannot be fudged that way. Nor can the odd and unintuitive grab bag of bull****ery that is Wisdom skills.
From a purely mechanical standpoint, any class that does not need Intelligence does not want Intelligence because it is easily the weakest stat in 5e, despite the large number of INT-based skills. Dex, Wis, and Con are all primary saves; Dex has seven hundred uses both in and out of combat and governs the second most important skill in the game, Wisdom is the save that stops all the game-ending mind control spells as well as governing the most important skill in the game, and Con is Con.
Charisma is the only stat anyone ever cares about when invoking Peoplemancy - you're never allowed to try and use logical reasoning to convince someone, you HAVE to do it with charismatic flair instead. Same for Deception, though somehow Intimidation is the one skill in the game that gets to run off two stats depending on the method used. Speaking of, Strength may be oddly limited in what it can do, but there are many reasons why someone would want a high Strength. Strength is the most common 'off' save, with Intelligence and Charisma saves being effectively nonexistent, and Strength governs many of the more interesting melee combat actions as well as a number of Heroic Moments.
Intelligence? All Intelligence does by the book is let you resist maybe three PHB spells, and give you a slightly better chance to "remember" stuff the DM generally wants to tell you anyways. It's moose piss, aggravates me immensely, and it means anyone who wants to play a highly intelligent and educated character with a powerful brain needs to accept that unless they're a wizard, they are objectively weaker than if they'd gone with any other possible character archetype.
Warlocks included.
None of this has anything to do with Mystics, though. Sorry about that, OP guy.
Why you shouldn't start ANOTHER thread about DDB not giving away free redeems on your hardcopy book purchases.
Thinking of starting ANOTHER thread asking why Epic Boons haven't been implemented? Read this first to learn why you shouldn't!
When the Warlock was first introduced back in 3e, the fact that they used something other than Int was novel. Before then ALL Arcane casting was Int based for everyone including Bards (and if I remember correctly Rangers too). Warlocks use Cha because they are supposedly using their skill of persuasion to convince a greater being to grant them powers. They don’t need to “know” Magic themselves, they just need to convince someone else to give it to them.
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB, & You
DDB CONTENT TROUBLESHOOTING
Who says they got the Artificer “right?”
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB, & You
DDB CONTENT TROUBLESHOOTING
I may (or may not) be in the minority, but I think they got the current iteration of the Artificer "more right" than wrong. And depending on what is seen in the Eberron book I'm confident I will be happy with the end result. I think now that the Eberron book (and final form of the Artificer) is finalizing completion, they will move onto Dark Sun and devote more resources on finalizing the Psion class.
This right here. I like the current iteration of the Artificer, it scratches the right itches and follows the design of 5e by having it not be insanely design heavy. It definitely needs tweaks, but they seem to be going in the right direction for when it is official in the Eberron book.
Also, Mike Mearls was working on the revised Psion before his twitch stream went dead many a month ago, and what he had was super promising. It was more of a classic caster that used concentration cantrips to effect different psion specific spells. That way they did away with the troublesome Mystic Points and just used normal Spell Slots but with a twist. We were then going to get all new Subclasses that fit the direction they were going and they were then going to take subclasses like the Soul Knife and Avatar and put them in various other classes. So, Monk would get Soul Knife, Barbarian would get Immortal, and something like Paladin or Bard would get Avatar.