The problem is that the other get Psionic Spell, and if their repertoire grows while the psionic's does not we pretty quick have and Arcan Archer/Scout Rogue vs Ranger discussion where people will keep recommending classes other than psionic to play psionic
You’re basically describing a lack of continued support for the class. They keep supporting the Warlock’s Eldritch Invocations. Why should this be different? Especially if they intend to put out a PsiSubclass for every Class anyway.
Because there is a greater incentive to produce new spells. That is the reason why there are 7 books that contain spells and only 2(in over 5 years) that contain invocations. Also, Warlock benefits from new Spells, not invocations, Psionic would only benefit from their new thing. Also, we already know about all the psychic themed spells we have + the ones they are going to print (see UA). The amount of psychic themed choice between the caster will be pretty large even at the release of such Psionic class.
A psion should not be a pact caster, and they should not be a half caster. They DEFINITELY should not be like 4e monk. They should be a full caster, with slots (maybe psi slots instead of spell slots but whatever) that scale the same. A high level psion is a worldshaper, who can bend reality with the power of their own mind, not a devoted servant to a higher power like a warlock. They should absolutely be able to nova.
A psion class would be a full caster. Psionics is not ki and should not scale as such.
They would not be a “Full Caster” more of a “Full Caster Equivalent” kind of like the Warlock. My version of the Psion would include Focus Points (Warlock Spell Slot equivalents) and Psi Points (Ki/Sorcery Point equivalents). Focus would be spent on Sciences (major abilities that would autoscale the way I described in the above example of Pyrokinetics) and Psi points that could be used for either Devotions (minor abilities that would occupy a roll similar to Eldritch Invocations) or Metapsionics (the Psionic equivalent to Metamagic).
A psion should not be a pact caster, and they should not be a half caster. They DEFINITELY should not be like 4e monk. They should be a full caster, with slots (maybe psi slots instead of spell slots but whatever) that scale the same. A high level psion is a worldshaper, who can bend reality with the power of their own mind, not a devoted servant to a higher power like a warlock. They should absolutely be able to nova.
Who says they would have a Pact?!? They would just use a similar mechanic is all.
The concept of psionics, historically, has been focusing on less spells (or what were basically spells, perhaps some specific spells for psion, and some spelllike effects using slots from the psion) but with the ability to empower them to any level (made more sense when upcasting wasn't a thing). I would suggest keeping disciplines as lists of spells (or spell-like effects) and having them run on spell slots, or, if you must, "psi slots", which scale the same under a different name. THEY ARE NOT A WARLOCK. THEY ARE NOT. THEY SHOULD NOT SCALE LIKE A WARLOCK. A PSION IS A FULL CASTER, NOT A PACT CASTER.
They should not scale like warlock, they should scale like wizard.
I’m not getting your point. I think you are confusing my use of scale (as in the powers automatically get upcast) and caster Scaling. The Psion would still end up just as powerful as a Wizard in the end, just use the more simplified mechanic.
Please chill out, saying something should “scale like a warlock” has nothing to do with being a “pact caster” or whatever. You’re reading way too much into what they’re saying.
The concept of psionics, historically, has been focusing on less spells (or what were basically spells, perhaps some specific spells for psion, and some spelllike effects using slots from the psion) but with the ability to empower them to any level (made more sense when upcasting wasn't a thing). I would suggest keeping disciplines as lists of spells (or spell-like effects) and having them run on spell slots, or, if you must, "psi slots", which scale the same under a different name. THEY ARE NOT A WARLOCK. THEY ARE NOT. THEY SHOULD NOT SCALE LIKE A WARLOCK. A PSION IS A FULL CASTER, NOT A PACT CASTER.
only problem with that is empowering spells is the sorcerer's only unique feature. I personally think it should be a sorcerer sub class that uses either wisdom or int as the casting attribute with a few unique metamagic options.
A psion should have slots like a wizard, not like a warlock. Is my opinion. I do not know how else to say it? I apologize for my anger, I get frustrated when I feel I am not being understood.
Also Psion as a sorcerer subclass is the second most boring way of handling a psion i could think (first being a wizard subclass). Wizards had metamagic in 3.5, does not mean that psion did not have the mechanic. Empowering spells and metamagic are two different things, metamagic is utility customization like extended range, subtle casting, and careful spell, empowering is stuff like adding additional effects, making it do more, and changing it in other ways.
I dislike the idea of making them a combo of warlock and sorcerer, as you seem to be proposing. I feel a psion should be working from slots that are like a wizard, not a warlock, with scaling as from different levels, focused on long rests. I also feel that they should be able to use these slots to do things other than spells, choosing disciplines instead of spells. These disciplines might grant spells known for the level, or they might also give different abilities that are like spells but different, scaling for the slot expended. Some of these disciplines would be general and some would be subclass specific.
Its certainly the most practical and easiest to implement in such way to match the design philosophy of 5e, streamlined play. Adding an entire new casting system for one class is a non starter its just not going to happen. If the psion is going to happen it needs to be designed to match up to a full casting class already present in 5e. Unnecessary rules and complex rules make the game inaccessible which to WOTC means lacking in sales. They will not print another class whose abilities are similar to what already exists in the game.
Psionics is completely broken in 3.5 so I really don't want to see that happen again in 5e. I am just unsure of how you can make another full casting class with its own unique niche that doesn't encroach on what is already present in the game currently.
I dislike the idea of making them a combo of warlock and sorcerer, as you seem to be proposing. I feel a psion should be working from slots that are like a wizard, not a warlock, with scaling as from different levels, focused on long rests. I also feel that they should be able to use these slots to do things other than spells, choosing disciplines instead of spells. These disciplines might grant spells known for the level, or they might also give different abilities that are like spells but different, scaling for the slot expended. Some of these disciplines would be general and some would be subclass specific.
That would certainly be cool but that seems to be the direction the sorcerer is heading with their sorcery points based on the most recent subclasses they have released.
You’re basically describing a lack of continued support for the class. They keep supporting the Warlock’s Eldritch Invocations. Why should this be different? Especially if they intend to put out a PsiSubclass for every Class anyway.
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A psion class would be a full caster. Psionics is not ki and should not scale as such.
Because there is a greater incentive to produce new spells. That is the reason why there are 7 books that contain spells and only 2(in over 5 years) that contain invocations. Also, Warlock benefits from new Spells, not invocations, Psionic would only benefit from their new thing. Also, we already know about all the psychic themed spells we have + the ones they are going to print (see UA). The amount of psychic themed choice between the caster will be pretty large even at the release of such Psionic class.
A psion should not be a pact caster, and they should not be a half caster. They DEFINITELY should not be like 4e monk. They should be a full caster, with slots (maybe psi slots instead of spell slots but whatever) that scale the same. A high level psion is a worldshaper, who can bend reality with the power of their own mind, not a devoted servant to a higher power like a warlock. They should absolutely be able to nova.
Yeah, but according to @IamPosta they aren't casters either @Bunsenburner.
They would not be a “Full Caster” more of a “Full Caster Equivalent” kind of like the Warlock. My version of the Psion would include Focus Points (Warlock Spell Slot equivalents) and Psi Points (Ki/Sorcery Point equivalents). Focus would be spent on Sciences (major abilities that would autoscale the way I described in the above example of Pyrokinetics) and Psi points that could be used for either Devotions (minor abilities that would occupy a roll similar to Eldritch Invocations) or Metapsionics (the Psionic equivalent to Metamagic).
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They should not scale like warlock, they should scale like wizard.
Who says they would have a Pact?!? They would just use a similar mechanic is all.
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The concept of psionics, historically, has been focusing on less spells (or what were basically spells, perhaps some specific spells for psion, and some spelllike effects using slots from the psion) but with the ability to empower them to any level (made more sense when upcasting wasn't a thing). I would suggest keeping disciplines as lists of spells (or spell-like effects) and having them run on spell slots, or, if you must, "psi slots", which scale the same under a different name. THEY ARE NOT A WARLOCK. THEY ARE NOT. THEY SHOULD NOT SCALE LIKE A WARLOCK. A PSION IS A FULL CASTER, NOT A PACT CASTER.
I’m not getting your point. I think you are confusing my use of scale (as in the powers automatically get upcast) and caster Scaling. The Psion would still end up just as powerful as a Wizard in the end, just use the more simplified mechanic.
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Please chill out, saying something should “scale like a warlock” has nothing to do with being a “pact caster” or whatever. You’re reading way too much into what they’re saying.
Yikes, calm down a bit guy, no need to shout.
only problem with that is empowering spells is the sorcerer's only unique feature. I personally think it should be a sorcerer sub class that uses either wisdom or int as the casting attribute with a few unique metamagic options.
Pact casting is the name of the warlocks mechanic. Recovering on a short rest and lower amount for higher value is pact casting.
A psion should have slots like a wizard, not like a warlock. Is my opinion. I do not know how else to say it? I apologize for my anger, I get frustrated when I feel I am not being understood.
Also Psion as a sorcerer subclass is the second most boring way of handling a psion i could think (first being a wizard subclass). Wizards had metamagic in 3.5, does not mean that psion did not have the mechanic. Empowering spells and metamagic are two different things, metamagic is utility customization like extended range, subtle casting, and careful spell, empowering is stuff like adding additional effects, making it do more, and changing it in other ways.
I dislike the idea of making them a combo of warlock and sorcerer, as you seem to be proposing. I feel a psion should be working from slots that are like a wizard, not a warlock, with scaling as from different levels, focused on long rests. I also feel that they should be able to use these slots to do things other than spells, choosing disciplines instead of spells. These disciplines might grant spells known for the level, or they might also give different abilities that are like spells but different, scaling for the slot expended. Some of these disciplines would be general and some would be subclass specific.
Its certainly the most practical and easiest to implement in such way to match the design philosophy of 5e, streamlined play. Adding an entire new casting system for one class is a non starter its just not going to happen. If the psion is going to happen it needs to be designed to match up to a full casting class already present in 5e. Unnecessary rules and complex rules make the game inaccessible which to WOTC means lacking in sales. They will not print another class whose abilities are similar to what already exists in the game.
Psionics is completely broken in 3.5 so I really don't want to see that happen again in 5e. I am just unsure of how you can make another full casting class with its own unique niche that doesn't encroach on what is already present in the game currently.
That would certainly be cool but that seems to be the direction the sorcerer is heading with their sorcery points based on the most recent subclasses they have released.
I mean this would be slot based, not point based. Also what subclass are you referring to?