Im bringing this to the beyond community in the hopes that your replies will maybe help one of our players realize his actions are disruptive to the group and as a last ditch effort to keep us from breaking up.
We have a rogue in our party that steals treasure from the group, a few of us as players have told him we dont like it and we want him to stop. Id like to add in our last game this player would take all of the party treasure and put it in his inventory (we play on fantasy grounds) and we wouldnt see it again, he wasnt playing a rogue at the time.
He claims hes just RPing his character which I totally get but I am of the opinion that its also a cooperative game and if players dont like something you should stop doing it regarless of RP value. We brought this to him and let him know how we felt and he didnt care (ill copy/paste his reply down below)
So I would like the opinion of our community, are those of us that are offended in the wrong? Is the player in question just being a jerk? Tell me what you think!
His reply from our Discord channel:
"There is a lot of OOC feeling that are being brought into an IC action imo. I am not RPing me, I am not a 'dick'. I made a char decision, based on how I want my char to behave. I made an OOC decision to announce, outloud, what I was doing, to be sure that OOC, players knew what was happening. I rolled, and I failed and got caught on one attempt. I could have just /w'ed the GM, but that's not how I like to play. This was session 1, RP wise, there is no party unity yet, our characters dont know eachother. This isnt wow, there is no party loot, there is no need before greed, we are not a raid group. I am not interested in playing a co-op game of diablo, I want to RP my char. I want to be a dick and say if there is an OOC reason my IC actions bother someone, they should get over it, but I am willing to discuss it if its going to be a huge problem how people RP. if it is an IC problem, then perfect. it can be resolved in game, we can RP it. I have chars through multiple games who have various personalities, chars that literally have no gear, take no loot, give away every gold they have and wont even accept healing potions. I have chars that are on the far other end, that are awful people who only care about themselves. I wanted this char to be sorta middle of the road, he doesnt know you, and looks at everyone the same way we all look at the NPCs that are dying around us. As of now, his concern is making it through without dying. My OOC goal is that IC we grow to be a party with unity, but just saying all our chars are together so we are friends is boring RP imo. If its jsut know what I have that others didnt see, I have a mace, that is probably magical."
I am not RPing me, I am not a 'dick'. I made a char decision, based on how I want my char to behave.
He may not be playing himself, but he admits right there that he is making the choice on how he wants is character to behave. That choice that he is making out of character is negatively affecting the rest of the group.
To be honest, they don't sound open to changing their course of action and if a genuine discussion isn't going to change their mind, I doubt a bunch of randos on here will.
I am not RPing me, I am not a 'dick'. I made a char decision, based on how I want my char to behave.
He may not be playing himself, but he admits right there that he is making the choice on how he wants is character to behave. That choice that he is making out of character is negatively affecting the rest of the group.
To be honest, they don't sound open to changing their course of action and if a genuine discussion isn't going to change their mind, I doubt a bunch of randos on here will.
Youre probably right but I enjoy the group and figured I would try to save it from breaking up, thank you very much for your response!
There was a discussion about "It's what my character would do," in regards to being disruptive.
If you're not having fun, there's a problem. It is possible to play "It's what my character would do," without ruining other people's fun, even if a character is built upon chaos. I've seen it many times.
The player seems willing to work with some stipulations. Talk it out, give suggestions. It is cooperative storytelling, not solo storytelling. So, no player gets to dictate the whole story upon everyone else (and that includes the DM).
All of this is from an outsider perspective. That's an important sticking point.
With that stated, I might recommend the player showing some ability to grow now, or the logical in-character conclusion of the party is that they simply cannot work with a character who shows no sign the character will ever consider the welfare of the group. Do something to offset the "I'm a ****" persona so people will give the character a chance despite the current offenses.
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I'm thinking that the most logical thing to do, for you characters, is to tell this thieving bastard whom they don't know and who appearantly doesn't feel like you are a group well enough not to steal from to piss off. Why would they cooperate with someone who steals from them? Clearly he doesn't feel like he wants to be friends with you because seriously, who starts out a relationship by stealing from people he just met?
Short minirant. The "I don't know you guys yet so I have no problem stealing from you" defence is the weirdest and most ridiculous thing ever and is also completely unrealistic. Imagine being hired for a job and the first thing you do i steal someone's lunch. I bet you two red cents that it's not going to work to say "Well, I don't know you yet and I haven't decided if I want to be friends with you or not so I felt that I could just steal your stuff. Maybe I'll stop stealing your lunch when we get to know each other a but better?"
Have the rest of the party in character confront them. Let them know it's a group working together and if he's going to steal from them he's not welcome and he can try his luck solo.
To jump IPs a bit, a certain scoundrel took a transport job with the only intent to make money for himself to get out of debt, nothing else. He grew to become a hero, a general in an alliance even. ...but he showed signs of growth fairly early in his story - doubt that he was doing the right thing for him for the right reasons for him, even going as far as to extend an offer of working together with one of the group separate from the rest.
It's a leap to go from "stealing lunch because I'm a ****" to "I need the money", but the gap can be bridged... but again, it's all on the player to do it.
If the player doesn't show character growth soon... like now soon, the character doesn't have a chance of ever working with the group again... if the character even makes it to the end of the current chapter. The in-character response will not be favorable to that player if the player doesn't start actually RPing a deeper character like the player claims to want to do.
EDIT: Right now, the character sounds shallow, uninteresting, boring. That's exactly the opposite of what that player claimed to want from the character. So the player needs to change quickly.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
"As of now, his concern is making it through without dying. My OOC goal is that IC we grow to be a party with unity, but just saying all our chars are together so we are friends is boring RP imo.
Then why would you perform an action that marks you as someone that can't be trusted. If he wants the party to be unified, he should act towards doing so, not creating distance between him and the others. RP wise, it makes total sense for the party to give him the boot because he has shown that he will put himself first, and is that someone that you really want to risk your life in battle for? Even in the shoes of the character, they would be a complete fool to risk the wrath of those who are fighting alongside him. The character is biting the hand that feeds them.
have the party steal it all back. if he refuses, attack him. Don't kill him but a good ol' knock out should do the trick. Once the party has what is theirs back, revive him. If the player gets mad just remind him that it's what everyone else's characters would do. I mean if I caught someone stealing all of my money I'd definitely take a swing at them. My barbarian tried to pinch a ring off of another player once and he didn't knock me out but he did enough damage that the barbarian got the hint. I wasn't mad, it was my own fault.
To jump IPs a bit, a certain scoundrel took a transport job with the only intent to make money for himself to get out of debt, nothing else. He grew to become a hero, a general in an alliance even. ...but he showed signs of growth fairly early in his story - doubt that he was doing the right thing for him for the right reasons for him, even going as far as to extend an offer of working together with one of the group separate from the rest.
It's a leap to go from "stealing lunch because I'm a ****" to "I need the money", but the gap can be bridged... but again, it's all on the player to do it.
If the player doesn't show character growth soon... like now soon, the character doesn't have a chance of ever working with the group again... if the character even makes it to the end of the current chapter. The in-character response will not be favorable to that player if the player doesn't start actually RPing a deeper character like the player claims to want to do.
EDIT: Right now, the character sounds shallow, uninteresting, boring. That's exactly the opposite of what that player claimed to want from the character. So the player needs to change quickly.
Han Solo took the job because he was in debt, yes. But once on that job he actually did go through with it, he didn't steal Luke Stormtrooper's armour "because that's what his character would do". In fact, that's the main difference between a good character and a bad one (not talking about alighnments here). A good character realizes that yes, they might be abel to steal from their temporary partners but if they keep up stealing from *everyone* then no-one will want to hire them again.
Exactly. ...AND no player will want to play with them again if they come up with a shallow, boring character that keeps committing crimes against the party "just 'cause".
That player better find something better and quickly or the removal of the character in the story is all on the player.
... but I am willing to discuss it if its going to be a huge problem how people RP.
This is the only reason I would give the player a shot - one (1) shot only - to get with the program.
I'm really hoping this turns around. It always saddens me to read about a player getting kicked no matter how deserved. Nobody decent likes to need to kick a player, but when it must be done, hard feelings follow, and that's no good to anyone.
(BTW, I voted "No". It's hard for me to imagine how it's okay. Doesn't mean it's impossible, just means I cannot imagine it. Maybe, I lack the necessary imagination. Change my mind and I'd change my vote, but for now, it's a hard "no".)
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
The whole "it's what my character would do" thing works both ways. If the rogue steals stuff from the group because that's what the character would do, the barbarian would probably smash the rogues head in because that's what the character would do. The wizard would probably banish the rogue to another dimension because that's what the character would do. My advice, if the character is the problem, deal with the character.
To summarize: It doesn't make much sense to defend an uninteresting character's uninteresting actions by claiming it's to make the character interesting.
The player better do something quickly to actually make the character interesting or something interesting will happen to the character in-character that the player will probably not like.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
If the rogue wants to steal from the party #ItsWhatMyCharacterWouldDo, cut off the thief's hands #ItsWhatMyCharacterWouldDo. "I am not a dick. I made a character decision."
All joking ( ;-) ) aside, stealing and rolling skills against other players is a type of PvP. Generally, PvP is discouraged so players can't bring OOC feelings IC.
This is up there with a Barbarian that attacks his own party ('cuz that's what he would do while raging) or a wizard that fireballs his own party without asking. DM's should not allow PvP unless both sides agree, and this includes stealing.
I agree with everyone else. If a player is making the game so that it’s not fun for other players then that player needs to go. It doesn’t matter if the player says, “That’s what my character would do.” or not. Especially if the player has pulled the exact same stunt in the past and gotten everyone upset that way in the past. Either he grows up and starts acting like an adult or kick him out of the party. Or, just have your characters kill him when they discover that he’s stealing from them. And then have them kill his new character immediately. Sooner or later the DM will get the message.
Im bringing this to the beyond community in the hopes that your replies will maybe help one of our players realize his actions are disruptive to the group and as a last ditch effort to keep us from breaking up.
We have a rogue in our party that steals treasure from the group, a few of us as players have told him we dont like it and we want him to stop. Id like to add in our last game this player would take all of the party treasure and put it in his inventory (we play on fantasy grounds) and we wouldnt see it again, he wasnt playing a rogue at the time.
He claims hes just RPing his character which I totally get but I am of the opinion that its also a cooperative game and if players dont like something you should stop doing it regarless of RP value. We brought this to him and let him know how we felt and he didnt care (ill copy/paste his reply down below)
So I would like the opinion of our community, are those of us that are offended in the wrong? Is the player in question just being a jerk? Tell me what you think!
His reply from our Discord channel:
"There is a lot of OOC feeling that are being brought into an IC action imo. I am not RPing me, I am not a 'dick'. I made a char decision, based on how I want my char to behave. I made an OOC decision to announce, outloud, what I was doing, to be sure that OOC, players knew what was happening. I rolled, and I failed and got caught on one attempt. I could have just /w'ed the GM, but that's not how I like to play. This was session 1, RP wise, there is no party unity yet, our characters dont know eachother. This isnt wow, there is no party loot, there is no need before greed, we are not a raid group. I am not interested in playing a co-op game of diablo, I want to RP my char. I want to be a dick and say if there is an OOC reason my IC actions bother someone, they should get over it, but I am willing to discuss it if its going to be a huge problem how people RP. if it is an IC problem, then perfect. it can be resolved in game, we can RP it. I have chars through multiple games who have various personalities, chars that literally have no gear, take no loot, give away every gold they have and wont even accept healing potions. I have chars that are on the far other end, that are awful people who only care about themselves. I wanted this char to be sorta middle of the road, he doesnt know you, and looks at everyone the same way we all look at the NPCs that are dying around us. As of now, his concern is making it through without dying. My OOC goal is that IC we grow to be a party with unity, but just saying all our chars are together so we are friends is boring RP imo. If its jsut know what I have that others didnt see, I have a mace, that is probably magical."
He may not be playing himself, but he admits right there that he is making the choice on how he wants is character to behave. That choice that he is making out of character is negatively affecting the rest of the group.
To be honest, they don't sound open to changing their course of action and if a genuine discussion isn't going to change their mind, I doubt a bunch of randos on here will.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Youre probably right but I enjoy the group and figured I would try to save it from breaking up, thank you very much for your response!
Why does the group have to break up? Why can't you just ask that player to either work better as a cooperative player, or leave?
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
There was a discussion about "It's what my character would do," in regards to being disruptive.
If you're not having fun, there's a problem. It is possible to play "It's what my character would do," without ruining other people's fun, even if a character is built upon chaos. I've seen it many times.
The player seems willing to work with some stipulations. Talk it out, give suggestions. It is cooperative storytelling, not solo storytelling. So, no player gets to dictate the whole story upon everyone else (and that includes the DM).
All of this is from an outsider perspective. That's an important sticking point.
With that stated, I might recommend the player showing some ability to grow now, or the logical in-character conclusion of the party is that they simply cannot work with a character who shows no sign the character will ever consider the welfare of the group. Do something to offset the "I'm a ****" persona so people will give the character a chance despite the current offenses.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I'm thinking that the most logical thing to do, for you characters, is to tell this thieving bastard whom they don't know and who appearantly doesn't feel like you are a group well enough not to steal from to piss off. Why would they cooperate with someone who steals from them? Clearly he doesn't feel like he wants to be friends with you because seriously, who starts out a relationship by stealing from people he just met?
Short minirant. The "I don't know you guys yet so I have no problem stealing from you" defence is the weirdest and most ridiculous thing ever and is also completely unrealistic. Imagine being hired for a job and the first thing you do i steal someone's lunch. I bet you two red cents that it's not going to work to say "Well, I don't know you yet and I haven't decided if I want to be friends with you or not so I felt that I could just steal your stuff. Maybe I'll stop stealing your lunch when we get to know each other a but better?"
Have the rest of the party in character confront them. Let them know it's a group working together and if he's going to steal from them he's not welcome and he can try his luck solo.
I..... dunno.
To jump IPs a bit, a certain scoundrel took a transport job with the only intent to make money for himself to get out of debt, nothing else. He grew to become a hero, a general in an alliance even. ...but he showed signs of growth fairly early in his story - doubt that he was doing the right thing for him for the right reasons for him, even going as far as to extend an offer of working together with one of the group separate from the rest.
It's a leap to go from "stealing lunch because I'm a ****" to "I need the money", but the gap can be bridged... but again, it's all on the player to do it.
If the player doesn't show character growth soon... like now soon, the character doesn't have a chance of ever working with the group again... if the character even makes it to the end of the current chapter. The in-character response will not be favorable to that player if the player doesn't start actually RPing a deeper character like the player claims to want to do.
EDIT: Right now, the character sounds shallow, uninteresting, boring. That's exactly the opposite of what that player claimed to want from the character. So the player needs to change quickly.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
"As of now, his concern is making it through without dying. My OOC goal is that IC we grow to be a party with unity, but just saying all our chars are together so we are friends is boring RP imo.
Then why would you perform an action that marks you as someone that can't be trusted. If he wants the party to be unified, he should act towards doing so, not creating distance between him and the others. RP wise, it makes total sense for the party to give him the boot because he has shown that he will put himself first, and is that someone that you really want to risk your life in battle for? Even in the shoes of the character, they would be a complete fool to risk the wrath of those who are fighting alongside him. The character is biting the hand that feeds them.
have the party steal it all back. if he refuses, attack him. Don't kill him but a good ol' knock out should do the trick. Once the party has what is theirs back, revive him. If the player gets mad just remind him that it's what everyone else's characters would do. I mean if I caught someone stealing all of my money I'd definitely take a swing at them. My barbarian tried to pinch a ring off of another player once and he didn't knock me out but he did enough damage that the barbarian got the hint. I wasn't mad, it was my own fault.
Full of rice, beans, and bad ideas.
Han Solo took the job because he was in debt, yes. But once on that job he actually did go through with it, he didn't steal Luke Stormtrooper's armour "because that's what his character would do".
In fact, that's the main difference between a good character and a bad one (not talking about alighnments here). A good character realizes that yes, they might be abel to steal from their temporary partners but if they keep up stealing from *everyone* then no-one will want to hire them again.
Exactly. ...AND no player will want to play with them again if they come up with a shallow, boring character that keeps committing crimes against the party "just 'cause".
That player better find something better and quickly or the removal of the character in the story is all on the player.
This is the only reason I would give the player a shot - one (1) shot only - to get with the program.
I'm really hoping this turns around. It always saddens me to read about a player getting kicked no matter how deserved. Nobody decent likes to need to kick a player, but when it must be done, hard feelings follow, and that's no good to anyone.
(BTW, I voted "No". It's hard for me to imagine how it's okay. Doesn't mean it's impossible, just means I cannot imagine it. Maybe, I lack the necessary imagination. Change my mind and I'd change my vote, but for now, it's a hard "no".)
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Just my 2 cent
"I made a char decision, based on how I want my char to behave."
That was his OOC decision though and playing a disruptive char without consulting the group is selfish.
"if it is an IC problem, then perfect. it can be resolved in game, we can RP it."
Sure, lets do that. IC: We as a group don't trust a scumbag thief, piss off!
The whole "it's what my character would do" thing works both ways. If the rogue steals stuff from the group because that's what the character would do, the barbarian would probably smash the rogues head in because that's what the character would do. The wizard would probably banish the rogue to another dimension because that's what the character would do. My advice, if the character is the problem, deal with the character.
Ah. The Wangrod Defense.
https://youtu.be/JoYR3eCFqoA
To summarize: It doesn't make much sense to defend an uninteresting character's uninteresting actions by claiming it's to make the character interesting.
The player better do something quickly to actually make the character interesting or something interesting will happen to the character in-character that the player will probably not like.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
If the rogue wants to steal from the party #ItsWhatMyCharacterWouldDo, cut off the thief's hands #ItsWhatMyCharacterWouldDo. "I am not a dick. I made a character decision."
All joking ( ;-) ) aside, stealing and rolling skills against other players is a type of PvP. Generally, PvP is discouraged so players can't bring OOC feelings IC.
Leave him behind. I am guessing he wouldn't see the irony if the rest of the party just turned on him and caused his character's death.
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This is up there with a Barbarian that attacks his own party ('cuz that's what he would do while raging) or a wizard that fireballs his own party without asking. DM's should not allow PvP unless both sides agree, and this includes stealing.
I agree with everyone else. If a player is making the game so that it’s not fun for other players then that player needs to go. It doesn’t matter if the player says, “That’s what my character would do.” or not. Especially if the player has pulled the exact same stunt in the past and gotten everyone upset that way in the past. Either he grows up and starts acting like an adult or kick him out of the party. Or, just have your characters kill him when they discover that he’s stealing from them. And then have them kill his new character immediately. Sooner or later the DM will get the message.
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