Seriously, have your friend watch this video. It's 10 minutes long, so it's not a huge investment. And it explains exactly what is wrong with what he is doing.
He's also full of BS by saying he's not a jerk OOC, only playing one IC. The decision to play a character who is a jerk to the other players, is only made by people who are jerks in real life. He knows your group doesn't like it, but he's doing it anyway. He's a Wangrod in the most perfect Colvillian sense.
Seriously, have him watch the video. Heck, maybe you can all watch it together. And then watch more Colville. The man knows what he's about.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
i posted this stuff in a different but similar thread and i do agree that the player needs to get there act together and play as a team member or leave. here are some ways to protect yourself.
Band of Loyalty : Common ring; when a person attuned to it drops to zero they die instead. slap a Arcanist's Magic Aura (only lasts 24 hours but that's just long enough for you wizard "he cant know its a fake that way when he says what it is there is no insight check against it everyone else should tho")to disguise it as something perfect for a rogue and just give it too him. or if you can commission a cursed one that's better one way or another if you get him to wear it its game over the next time he goes down. cons: it only lasts 24 hour and needs another caster to keep the reuse up for you.
Secret Chest : if you got a (Wizard, Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster, Arcana Domain) able to cast lvl 4 spells keeping you goods on the astral plane is a solid bet cons:costs 5000gp, the mini chest can be stolen.
Arcane Lock : (Wizard, Artificer) covers closed door, window, gate, chest, or other entryway. if other entryway can count a a bags opening or a pockets then purchasing seal-able bags and clothes with zipper pockets ect. could then have an arcane lock on each separate space at 25gp and at the low lvl of 2 this is a bit more feasible. cons: he could just steal the whole thing but hes going to have a hard time hiding the fact he took your coat or chest ect.
Glyph of Warding: (Bard, Cleric, Wizard, Artificer) looking to protect yourself? or do some damage? this can put the hurt on whoever tries to take it with explosive rune. or maybe you wannabe nice use spell glyph to simply hold person on him? ether way at 200gp they are sure to reconsider after the first time you purse explodes into golden shrapnel (be sure to argue extra dmg) cons: possibly dangerous to to the user if you mess up yourself (sadly it does not work outside of 10 feet from where it was cast so these got to be in home base's)
Magic Mouth: (Bard, Wizard, Artificer) this one is a maybe as im unsure if "choose an object that you can see and that isn't being worn or carried by another creature." implies it can never be worn or carried; but should it work fine then this can be your go to alarm system as it can last 10 mins and you can fill it with shrieks or what have you. only costing 10gp this is probably the cheapest option you just need to be clever with the trigger
Tiny Hut: (Bard, Wizard, Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster) this one is just plain rude but you can cast it and exclude the rogue leaving him outside and giving you 8 hours of peace knowing he cant take anything.
Locate ObjectConcentration find your stuff afterwards
so what i have done in the past is something like this
step one make an Adamantine lockbox (you'll need to work with your gm on the dc but if its available for an npc dungeon i see no reason you cant get a 15-20).
step two make sure it is built with a Lock of Trickery built into it (external may be fine but build it out of Adamantine)
step three cast or have cast Arcane Lock on the box
step four line the inside with lead to protect from scrying
step five cast magic mouth on it set conditions that you think will easily be triggered like simply being opened or removed to x person for x time; or if possible simply set it for when he touches it. anything to keep it as an alarm system.
step six chain something to the outside that can be scryed so you can find the box.
now you have a box that is near impossible to destroy with a very high dc to pick, disadvantage AND a password. and yes it may be expensive but you got to invest in your future. make it large enough to carry a bag of holding and you got yourself a great way to ensure the party doesn't lose valuables to theft and destruction
the enigma box (TM) would run you (100gp [ for lock of trickery ] 250gp+ Xgp [ for arcane lock as a scroll and cost of paying a caster for services] 500gp for [Adamantine], 10gp for magic mouth)
and yes he could just take the lock box like some sort of ronko portable safe but he would be the hard pressed to get it open with-ought help. i envision he retires with it as a door stop never really able to open it messing with it a a hobby
I would have to go with 'YES! Take it all, screw the other players!' But then again it really depends on what your character's alignment is, for example, a Lawful Good Rogue wouldn't steal the treasure of another player but if your character is CE, LE, NE or even CN go ahead if you have the opportunity.
I would have to go with 'YES! Take it all, screw the other players!' But then again it really depends on what your character's alignment is, for example, a Lawful Good Rogue wouldn't steal the treasure of another player but if your character is CE, LE, NE or even CN go ahead if you have the opportunity.
Blaming it on alignment is just as much of a wangrod move as claiming that "it's just what my character would do". Unless you're a complete tool you would realize what a bad move it is to steal from heavily armed people who are willing to kill people for stuff.
I would have to go with 'YES! Take it all, screw the other players!' But then again it really depends on what your character's alignment is, for example, a Lawful Good Rogue wouldn't steal the treasure of another player but if your character is CE, LE, NE or even CN go ahead if you have the opportunity.
You as a player chose your characters alignment, goals, motivations and actions. Everything your character does comes from you as a player. If your character is inclined to act in a way that would detract from the enjoyment of others, that's 100% on you as a player. You don't get to blame alignment or roleplaying your character, because you chose those things and it's not an excuse.
"What I as a player should do" is more important than "what my character would do".
You are a player first, a character second. Deliberately choosing to be detrimental to the fun of other players is a dick move, in or out of character.
Real person at fault is the DM who should have established the rules and boundaries on PVP interactions in Session 0 or at least reprimanded the player for this
Talk to the DM and the other players. If you're all in the agreement then give the troublesome player the ultimatum: stop being a dick or get the **** out.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I would have to go with 'YES! Take it all, screw the other players!' But then again it really depends on what your character's alignment is, for example, a Lawful Good Rogue wouldn't steal the treasure of another player but if your character is CE, LE, NE or even CN go ahead if you have the opportunity.
I answered in the context of the first post, not the question standalone. (If it had been a standalone question, I would have a long post on why it would be very tricky and difficult to make it okay - a lot of storytelling creativity required.)
In context of the first post, the player in contention essentially claimed that a rogue stealing from people makes the character and setting interesting. ...and I thought I had lack of imagination...
EDIT: This is, of course, just based on the views presented here. There can always be more to a story, but so far from what I read, it's someone trying to justify in-party greifing rather than apologizing and making a change.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Just have players react IC the way their characters would react.
I don't know how many or of what class are in your group, but I imagine there's at least one character who would react very negatively to being stolen from. A few examples I can think of: - In some cultures its normal to cut off a thief's hand(s). One of the party could view that as a reasonable punishment. - Rogues work best when they're incognito...Well, have some of the charismatic characters believe it to be in good taste to out the rogue to NPC's, tell them who he is, point them in his direction, let them know what he's like, keep everybody he interacts with on edge about him. Maybe they even see it as equal revenge to spread untrue rumours about the Rogue whilst they're at it... - Spell users have a bunch of stuff they could utilise to teach the rogue a lesson IC, spell users typically also being characters that like to "teach a lesson". Silence him, put him to sleep, make him sick, blind him, trick him with illusion, cast spells that generally interfere with them joining in properly. - Straight up bully the rogue. Why is this rogue continuing to follow the group? The characters don't want him there stealing from them. Sounds harsh but a reality is if somebody is forcing themselves into a group when they're just not wanted, it's not uncommon for the group to pick on them until they go away. Screwing up their actions, preventing them from doing cool stuff, mix in a bit of the other options like spreading rumours. - Straight up kill the rogue. Got any angry barbarian characters? How have they managed to be constantly stolen from for so long without just caving in his skull?
Is any of that a bit far? Maybe, but it's all in character which seems to be his excuse for irritating behaviour, so just make sure players retaliating are doing it IC too.
Or just be a dick GM and straight up kill him off. If his character is a problem and he knows its irritating the group, he should be understanding that the players don't want to be with that character, the GM doesn't want to run that character and if he insists on staying in character to the point it disrupts the group then he should understand why everybody wants to run with a new character.
I don't think it's productive to make an IC war out of this, each person trying to out-wangrod the other. "Your rogue stole from me because it's what he would do? Fine! I cut off your hands, it's what my character would do!" Followed by "Well my character would protect his character from getting his hand cut off, so I draw steel. Roll initiative bucko!"
Some groups might enjoy this but the OP's group is clearly not interested in this type of gaming, and I suspect the vast majority of gaming tables would not appreciate it. Therefore, rather than an arms race of IC wangrod moves, it is much, much better to follow Matt Colville's advice and discuss this out of character (as they seem to be trying to do in Discord). What is needed here, is not the "I can be a jerk too" escalation, but rather, to help the player see that he's being a wangrod, and that he needs to stop.
There are many, many ways to play a rogue character that do not include making other players miserable. His fun is not allowed to be had at the expense of other people at the table's fun. Therefore, he needs to stop. I was unclear if the OP is the DM or just a player, but if the OP is the DM, then the OP needs to put a stop to this and ask the player to come up with a new concept, if unable to play the existing one in a non-Wangroddie way. If the OP is just a player, then the OP needs to go to the DM and discuss this in detail.
And again, the whole group needs to watch Colville's 10 minute Wangrod Defense video, since it explains all of this in great detail.
As the DM make sure to have the rogue roll on everything, and have the party roll perception checks and insight checks as well. As soon as the party without meta-gaming knows what the rogue is up to, they beat that rogue within an inch of his life. The party takes his stuff (all of it) to set an example. Either the rogue gets the message or is exiled from the party with the promise that if the rogue is ever seen by them again they will kill him on sight. Hopefully it’s the latter and the player has to reroll a new character with the stipulation of it having a good alignment if the player themself wishes to continue playing with the other people in the group. Sometimes people are just jerks and need an ass kicking intervention to make them see the error of their ways.
I play rogue and even being chaotic neutral I don't horde all the loot or steal from the other PCs. Ok maybe I will grab a few extra gold, but if say there is armor clearly meant for the fighter since the armor is no good to me for stealth I don't just take it anyway being all finders keepers about it.
Not having predetermined party cohesion is no excuse to be a jerk. I mean sure you can be miserly and not give your gold to a player who wants to buy something because they don't know him and don't trust others with their own money but that doesn't mean you take money from another player.
Also if the characters keep finding empty chests or their stuff is missing they will become suspicious, maybe even paranoid and when the rogue flees they will notice this and start suspecting him of something. After all isn't it reasonable to believe the characters in their world grew up hearing the unimaginable riches guarded by a dragon? And if they were to slay such a beast to find nothing there despite so many stories and accounts throughout history, possibly from ancestors or regional folktales they would wonder why they haven't found anything. Just some thoughts.
I have sort of been in this scenario before in a past campaign, I was a 2nd Level Paladin and we had just finished a fight between a band of Goblins and unfortunately, I had taken too much damage, therefore, I had been knocked out, along with most of our party except for our Lawful Evil Warlock friend Thazar-De (which was apart of our party and also one of my closes friends). Anyways the Warlock had stolen my treasure and believe me when I say it was a pain in my ass and at that time I thought he was a dick, so I understand at what you're getting at. However, when this happened I completely understood that he was just roleplaying his alignment and acting like what a lawful evil character would act like, this player was just roleplaying to his personality traits and alignment so I do not get how it is blaming your alignment it is just roleplaying and if you want to hold grudges then do that but I quote from page 235 of the Dungeon Master's Guide 'Don't bring personal conflicts to the table and don't let disagreements escalate into bad feelings' but really at the end of the day it is really what the DM percieves from the whole argument and if there are rules stopping the character from doing such things then enforce them and stop the character.
It has gone from IC to OOC when the issue was brought up OOC and the response was to taunt the other players into PvP. It is past quoting page 235 at this point.
There is a group whose overly generous bard has no concept of value and is no longer the party treasurer because of it. The RP was accepted and resolved by the group IC and it never resulted in PvP. First off, it is just funny to all of them, and the bard IC meant well. They all got a kick out of it and cooperated a resolution with no hard feelings.
The player of contention is insisting that there needs to be conflict not because of good story among the group but because the player wants his story. There is no party agreement, just one player insisting everyone else play his way.
Again, based on what I read. There can always be more to this.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I'd go the other way and embrace it. Let him try to cheat and rob, just make him roll against and eventually it will catch up to him. I had a similar experience and we had a very similar discussion. We all decided to let it play out and as the DM I let everyone know that actions will have repercussions. The thief was caught by the fighter and didn't say anything right away, he pulled the others aside later. The druid didn't care as he was not really into material things, the wizard said he was going to have to see for himself, the cleric said he didn't want to be a part of the drama.... The fighter then persuaded the cleric that by stealing from the party it was lessening the share that would be going to his deity and therefore stealing from his god. Pretty good logic from an RP standpoint I must say. Next battle, rogue went down, rogue didn't receive a heal. Problem was solved. There was a lot of really fun RP and back and forth with it. I'm glad they decided to just let it play out as it was pretty fun.
Not saying that's the only way to go, I don't your party's dynamic. It sure was fun to see it on my end. If the player truly isn't a dick and is just RPing, he should embrace the consequences and have fun with his demise.
We simply asked him, in the end, to not steal things that we all fought for. If he wanted to walk up to something (meaning NPCs... not any of us), on his own, and live or die by his 'Slight of Hand' skills, then by all means, go for it.
He quit. Best of luck, man.
We have added two new players for this Saturday, one playing a new Theif character......
I have a rogue and I like to RP her but I never steal from the other players. it's not as if we all don't use each other's stuff, but we ask permission first.
I have a rogue and I like to RP her but I never steal from the other players. it's not as if we all don't use each other's stuff, but we ask permission first.
^^^^^^ This. 100%.
The thing is... this is not AD&D. The class name is not "Thief" anymore; it's "Rogue." The "Thief" is but one subclass of the Rogue, along with Scout, Swashbuckler, Mastermind, Assassin... Most of the other subclasses would not necessarily steal from people they know, or heck, with Scouts or Masterminds possibly not anyone. A Mastermind is like Don Corleone. Sure, he would show up at the shop of someone who's not paying his "protection" money with some goons and do the whole, "Nice store you have here... it'd be a shame if someone burned it down," thing. But Don Corleone would never personally shoplift or pickpocket someone because it would be beneath him. So there's not really any justification, except with the thief subclass, to pickpocket your friends at all.
There are tons of ways to play a Rogue, and frankly even a Rogue who is a Thief (subclass, or just lower-case thief as in burglar with a different subclass) without playing a character who is some klepto that can't keep his or her hands off his own team-mates' stuff. Even a Chaotic Stupid rogue should be at least smart enough to know that doing that is going to get you booted from the party (at minimum) once it is discovered unless you have some sort of a patron in the party (e.g., a powerful wizard ally who refuses to allow the party to punish you or threatens to leave with you if booted). And in these stories, I never seem to read anything about such a patron.
So unless someone is playing a Thief subclass character with like a 6 INT, it has never made any sense to me to follow the logic of "it's what my character would do." These folks are literally relying on being the only one at the table both brave enough and jerky enough to "do what their character would do" to the detriment of everyone else. Because if the rest of the party "did what their characters would do," that Thief would be left behind in the dungeon to die if he or she kept doing this stuff.
IF and ONLY IF you talk about it beforehand with the other players. (Similarly, the only way to deal with this behavior is talking about it out of character, not in an accusatory way, but explaining how this character makes it hard to have fun.)
A group of mature adults with roleplaying experience might be open to having a larcenous character among them (or they might not). And a mature adult player might be able to play that character without being an ass about it. They'd also be mature enough to face the inevitable consequences, and possible new character, when they got caught.
But if the rogue is just playing their character the way they want to play them, with no respect for the group? They chose to create that character. They can, believe it or not, choose to create one that doesn't violate the unwritten rule that D&D is a team game—or edit their character to fit it. Good roleplaying is NOT total method-actor commitment to a character. Good roleplaying is adapting and improvising to tell a good story together...even if it means changing the character from the person you have in your head. Characters are just that—characters—not their own entities. You can change them.
Argh, he beat me to it.
Seriously, have your friend watch this video. It's 10 minutes long, so it's not a huge investment. And it explains exactly what is wrong with what he is doing.
He's also full of BS by saying he's not a jerk OOC, only playing one IC. The decision to play a character who is a jerk to the other players, is only made by people who are jerks in real life. He knows your group doesn't like it, but he's doing it anyway. He's a Wangrod in the most perfect Colvillian sense.
Seriously, have him watch the video. Heck, maybe you can all watch it together. And then watch more Colville. The man knows what he's about.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
i posted this stuff in a different but similar thread and i do agree that the player needs to get there act together and play as a team member or leave. here are some ways to protect yourself.
so what i have done in the past is something like this
now you have a box that is near impossible to destroy with a very high dc to pick, disadvantage AND a password. and yes it may be expensive but you got to invest in your future. make it large enough to carry a bag of holding and you got yourself a great way to ensure the party doesn't lose valuables to theft and destruction
the enigma box (TM) would run you (100gp [ for lock of trickery ] 250gp+ Xgp [ for arcane lock as a scroll and cost of paying a caster for services] 500gp for [Adamantine], 10gp for magic mouth)
and yes he could just take the lock box like some sort of ronko portable safe but he would be the hard pressed to get it open with-ought help. i envision he retires with it as a door stop never really able to open it messing with it a a hobby
I would have to go with 'YES! Take it all, screw the other players!' But then again it really depends on what your character's alignment is, for example, a Lawful Good Rogue wouldn't steal the treasure of another player but if your character is CE, LE, NE or even CN go ahead if you have the opportunity.
"A Jack Of All Trades is a master of none"
'That's why I hate Bards'
Blaming it on alignment is just as much of a wangrod move as claiming that "it's just what my character would do". Unless you're a complete tool you would realize what a bad move it is to steal from heavily armed people who are willing to kill people for stuff.
You as a player chose your characters alignment, goals, motivations and actions. Everything your character does comes from you as a player. If your character is inclined to act in a way that would detract from the enjoyment of others, that's 100% on you as a player. You don't get to blame alignment or roleplaying your character, because you chose those things and it's not an excuse.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
"What I as a player should do" is more important than "what my character would do".
You are a player first, a character second. Deliberately choosing to be detrimental to the fun of other players is a dick move, in or out of character.
Real person at fault is the DM who should have established the rules and boundaries on PVP interactions in Session 0 or at least reprimanded the player for this
Talk to the DM and the other players. If you're all in the agreement then give the troublesome player the ultimatum: stop being a dick or get the **** out.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I answered in the context of the first post, not the question standalone. (If it had been a standalone question, I would have a long post on why it would be very tricky and difficult to make it okay - a lot of storytelling creativity required.)
In context of the first post, the player in contention essentially claimed that a rogue stealing from people makes the character and setting interesting. ...and I thought I had lack of imagination...
EDIT: This is, of course, just based on the views presented here. There can always be more to a story, but so far from what I read, it's someone trying to justify in-party greifing rather than apologizing and making a change.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Just have players react IC the way their characters would react.
I don't know how many or of what class are in your group, but I imagine there's at least one character who would react very negatively to being stolen from.
A few examples I can think of:
- In some cultures its normal to cut off a thief's hand(s). One of the party could view that as a reasonable punishment.
- Rogues work best when they're incognito...Well, have some of the charismatic characters believe it to be in good taste to out the rogue to NPC's, tell them who he is, point them in his direction, let them know what he's like, keep everybody he interacts with on edge about him. Maybe they even see it as equal revenge to spread untrue rumours about the Rogue whilst they're at it...
- Spell users have a bunch of stuff they could utilise to teach the rogue a lesson IC, spell users typically also being characters that like to "teach a lesson". Silence him, put him to sleep, make him sick, blind him, trick him with illusion, cast spells that generally interfere with them joining in properly.
- Straight up bully the rogue. Why is this rogue continuing to follow the group? The characters don't want him there stealing from them. Sounds harsh but a reality is if somebody is forcing themselves into a group when they're just not wanted, it's not uncommon for the group to pick on them until they go away. Screwing up their actions, preventing them from doing cool stuff, mix in a bit of the other options like spreading rumours.
- Straight up kill the rogue. Got any angry barbarian characters? How have they managed to be constantly stolen from for so long without just caving in his skull?
Is any of that a bit far? Maybe, but it's all in character which seems to be his excuse for irritating behaviour, so just make sure players retaliating are doing it IC too.
Or just be a dick GM and straight up kill him off. If his character is a problem and he knows its irritating the group, he should be understanding that the players don't want to be with that character, the GM doesn't want to run that character and if he insists on staying in character to the point it disrupts the group then he should understand why everybody wants to run with a new character.
I don't think it's productive to make an IC war out of this, each person trying to out-wangrod the other. "Your rogue stole from me because it's what he would do? Fine! I cut off your hands, it's what my character would do!" Followed by "Well my character would protect his character from getting his hand cut off, so I draw steel. Roll initiative bucko!"
Some groups might enjoy this but the OP's group is clearly not interested in this type of gaming, and I suspect the vast majority of gaming tables would not appreciate it. Therefore, rather than an arms race of IC wangrod moves, it is much, much better to follow Matt Colville's advice and discuss this out of character (as they seem to be trying to do in Discord). What is needed here, is not the "I can be a jerk too" escalation, but rather, to help the player see that he's being a wangrod, and that he needs to stop.
There are many, many ways to play a rogue character that do not include making other players miserable. His fun is not allowed to be had at the expense of other people at the table's fun. Therefore, he needs to stop. I was unclear if the OP is the DM or just a player, but if the OP is the DM, then the OP needs to put a stop to this and ask the player to come up with a new concept, if unable to play the existing one in a non-Wangroddie way. If the OP is just a player, then the OP needs to go to the DM and discuss this in detail.
And again, the whole group needs to watch Colville's 10 minute Wangrod Defense video, since it explains all of this in great detail.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
As the DM make sure to have the rogue roll on everything, and have the party roll perception checks and insight checks as well. As soon as the party without meta-gaming knows what the rogue is up to, they beat that rogue within an inch of his life. The party takes his stuff (all of it) to set an example. Either the rogue gets the message or is exiled from the party with the promise that if the rogue is ever seen by them again they will kill him on sight. Hopefully it’s the latter and the player has to reroll a new character with the stipulation of it having a good alignment if the player themself wishes to continue playing with the other people in the group. Sometimes people are just jerks and need an ass kicking intervention to make them see the error of their ways.
Ranger: Beastmaster
I play rogue and even being chaotic neutral I don't horde all the loot or steal from the other PCs. Ok maybe I will grab a few extra gold, but if say there is armor clearly meant for the fighter since the armor is no good to me for stealth I don't just take it anyway being all finders keepers about it.
Not having predetermined party cohesion is no excuse to be a jerk. I mean sure you can be miserly and not give your gold to a player who wants to buy something because they don't know him and don't trust others with their own money but that doesn't mean you take money from another player.
Also if the characters keep finding empty chests or their stuff is missing they will become suspicious, maybe even paranoid and when the rogue flees they will notice this and start suspecting him of something. After all isn't it reasonable to believe the characters in their world grew up hearing the unimaginable riches guarded by a dragon? And if they were to slay such a beast to find nothing there despite so many stories and accounts throughout history, possibly from ancestors or regional folktales they would wonder why they haven't found anything. Just some thoughts.
I have sort of been in this scenario before in a past campaign, I was a 2nd Level Paladin and we had just finished a fight between a band of Goblins and unfortunately, I had taken too much damage, therefore, I had been knocked out, along with most of our party except for our Lawful Evil Warlock friend Thazar-De (which was apart of our party and also one of my closes friends). Anyways the Warlock had stolen my treasure and believe me when I say it was a pain in my ass and at that time I thought he was a dick, so I understand at what you're getting at. However, when this happened I completely understood that he was just roleplaying his alignment and acting like what a lawful evil character would act like, this player was just roleplaying to his personality traits and alignment so I do not get how it is blaming your alignment it is just roleplaying and if you want to hold grudges then do that but I quote from page 235 of the Dungeon Master's Guide 'Don't bring personal conflicts to the table and don't let disagreements escalate into bad feelings' but really at the end of the day it is really what the DM percieves from the whole argument and if there are rules stopping the character from doing such things then enforce them and stop the character.
"A Jack Of All Trades is a master of none"
'That's why I hate Bards'
It has gone from IC to OOC when the issue was brought up OOC and the response was to taunt the other players into PvP. It is past quoting page 235 at this point.
There is a group whose overly generous bard has no concept of value and is no longer the party treasurer because of it. The RP was accepted and resolved by the group IC and it never resulted in PvP. First off, it is just funny to all of them, and the bard IC meant well. They all got a kick out of it and cooperated a resolution with no hard feelings.
The player of contention is insisting that there needs to be conflict not because of good story among the group but because the player wants his story. There is no party agreement, just one player insisting everyone else play his way.
Again, based on what I read. There can always be more to this.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I'd go the other way and embrace it. Let him try to cheat and rob, just make him roll against and eventually it will catch up to him. I had a similar experience and we had a very similar discussion. We all decided to let it play out and as the DM I let everyone know that actions will have repercussions. The thief was caught by the fighter and didn't say anything right away, he pulled the others aside later. The druid didn't care as he was not really into material things, the wizard said he was going to have to see for himself, the cleric said he didn't want to be a part of the drama.... The fighter then persuaded the cleric that by stealing from the party it was lessening the share that would be going to his deity and therefore stealing from his god. Pretty good logic from an RP standpoint I must say. Next battle, rogue went down, rogue didn't receive a heal. Problem was solved. There was a lot of really fun RP and back and forth with it. I'm glad they decided to just let it play out as it was pretty fun.
Not saying that's the only way to go, I don't your party's dynamic. It sure was fun to see it on my end. If the player truly isn't a dick and is just RPing, he should embrace the consequences and have fun with his demise.
As an update to this....
We simply asked him, in the end, to not steal things that we all fought for. If he wanted to walk up to something (meaning NPCs... not any of us), on his own, and live or die by his 'Slight of Hand' skills, then by all means, go for it.
He quit. Best of luck, man.
We have added two new players for this Saturday, one playing a new Theif character......
"Please don't steal from us man."
"Not a problem, guys."
*mic drop*
Wow.
Not, "I will make up a new character" but "I quit."
Well, that tells you he was not a good fit for your group. Glad it seems to have all worked out in the end.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I have a rogue and I like to RP her but I never steal from the other players. it's not as if we all don't use each other's stuff, but we ask permission first.
^^^^^^ This. 100%.
The thing is... this is not AD&D. The class name is not "Thief" anymore; it's "Rogue." The "Thief" is but one subclass of the Rogue, along with Scout, Swashbuckler, Mastermind, Assassin... Most of the other subclasses would not necessarily steal from people they know, or heck, with Scouts or Masterminds possibly not anyone. A Mastermind is like Don Corleone. Sure, he would show up at the shop of someone who's not paying his "protection" money with some goons and do the whole, "Nice store you have here... it'd be a shame if someone burned it down," thing. But Don Corleone would never personally shoplift or pickpocket someone because it would be beneath him. So there's not really any justification, except with the thief subclass, to pickpocket your friends at all.
There are tons of ways to play a Rogue, and frankly even a Rogue who is a Thief (subclass, or just lower-case thief as in burglar with a different subclass) without playing a character who is some klepto that can't keep his or her hands off his own team-mates' stuff. Even a Chaotic Stupid rogue should be at least smart enough to know that doing that is going to get you booted from the party (at minimum) once it is discovered unless you have some sort of a patron in the party (e.g., a powerful wizard ally who refuses to allow the party to punish you or threatens to leave with you if booted). And in these stories, I never seem to read anything about such a patron.
So unless someone is playing a Thief subclass character with like a 6 INT, it has never made any sense to me to follow the logic of "it's what my character would do." These folks are literally relying on being the only one at the table both brave enough and jerky enough to "do what their character would do" to the detriment of everyone else. Because if the rest of the party "did what their characters would do," that Thief would be left behind in the dungeon to die if he or she kept doing this stuff.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Int tells you it’s raining, Wis tells you to bring an umbrella. Even with an Int of 6, they should still be wise enough not to screw their own party.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
It's okay to steal party treasure...
IF and ONLY IF you talk about it beforehand with the other players. (Similarly, the only way to deal with this behavior is talking about it out of character, not in an accusatory way, but explaining how this character makes it hard to have fun.)
A group of mature adults with roleplaying experience might be open to having a larcenous character among them (or they might not). And a mature adult player might be able to play that character without being an ass about it. They'd also be mature enough to face the inevitable consequences, and possible new character, when they got caught.
But if the rogue is just playing their character the way they want to play them, with no respect for the group? They chose to create that character. They can, believe it or not, choose to create one that doesn't violate the unwritten rule that D&D is a team game—or edit their character to fit it. Good roleplaying is NOT total method-actor commitment to a character. Good roleplaying is adapting and improvising to tell a good story together...even if it means changing the character from the person you have in your head. Characters are just that—characters—not their own entities. You can change them.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club