I was wondering whether or not the playable races that will become available in Mordenkainen's new book will automatically be updated, or does someone like me, who has unlocked a lot of playable races previously, need to buy the races again to unlock the updated features? Does anyone know?
It's been stated that the options found in Monster's of the Multiverse will not replace anything you already own. This means that if you want these new versions, you will need to purchase the book.
Keep in mind that many of the changes are largely cosmetic: setting-specific references removed, no hardcoded alignments, no fixed racial ASIs in the case of player races, that sort of thing. There are changes that have more impact as well - more magical abilities to replace leveled spells using spells slots, etc - but if you already own most of the material in its original form you might just want to leave these updates be. The original content will still work just fine with new material to be released in the future.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
The fact I have bought all of the sourcebooks, and these changes are mostly what would have been errata in the past, I kind of feel cheated by WotC...
I am in 2 minds over this, on the one hand I get what your saying regarding the player character changes, in fact if you have purchased Tasha then the floating ASIs is taken care of anyway.
But if I was a new DM coming in then this is great for me, I can buy 1 book that has every additional player race and all the monsters in Volos and mordekeinans. It means I don’t need to buy a whole source book just for a player who wants to be a satyr, or a fairy. I will probably buy the manual when it is released on its own as it just reduces the number of books I am carrying around when I go to other peoples houses.
The fact I have bought all of the sourcebooks, and these changes are mostly what would have been errata in the past, I kind of feel cheated by WotC...
I am in 2 minds over this, on the one hand I get what your saying regarding the player character changes, in fact if you have purchased Tasha then the floating ASIs is taken care of anyway.
But if I was a new DM coming in then this is great for me, I can buy 1 book that has every additional player race and all the monsters in Volos and mordekeinans. It means I don’t need to buy a whole source book just for a player who wants to be a satyr, or a fairy. I will probably buy the manual when it is released on its own as it just reduces the number of books I am carrying around when I go to other peoples houses.
I had all the sourcebooks before MMM came out, but I'm still really happy to have it. I still need other books for subclasses, but now I can just pull out one book when I need to look up racial stuff instead of having to clutter my (fairly small) living room with half of my D&D library. This also makes my wife much happier, which makes my life easier.
The fact I have bought all of the sourcebooks, and these changes are mostly what would have been errata in the past, I kind of feel cheated by WotC...
I am in 2 minds over this, on the one hand I get what your saying regarding the player character changes, in fact if you have purchased Tasha then the floating ASIs is taken care of anyway.
But if I was a new DM coming in then this is great for me, I can buy 1 book that has every additional player race and all the monsters in Volos and mordekeinans. It means I don’t need to buy a whole source book just for a player who wants to be a satyr, or a fairy. I will probably buy the manual when it is released on its own as it just reduces the number of books I am carrying around when I go to other peoples houses.
I had all the sourcebooks before MMM came out, but I'm still really happy to have it. I still need other books for subclasses, but now I can just pull out one book when I need to look up racial stuff instead of having to clutter my (fairly small) living room with half of my D&D library. This also makes my wife much happier, which makes my life easier.
I posted a separate thread to ask this question but, is the lore presented in MMM any different to that in Volos and Mordenkienans? For instance about things like the giants, the blood war, elves and illithids and gith?.
The fact I have bought all of the sourcebooks, and these changes are mostly what would have been errata in the past, I kind of feel cheated by WotC...
I am in 2 minds over this, on the one hand I get what your saying regarding the player character changes, in fact if you have purchased Tasha then the floating ASIs is taken care of anyway.
But if I was a new DM coming in then this is great for me, I can buy 1 book that has every additional player race and all the monsters in Volos and mordekeinans. It means I don’t need to buy a whole source book just for a player who wants to be a satyr, or a fairy. I will probably buy the manual when it is released on its own as it just reduces the number of books I am carrying around when I go to other peoples houses.
I had all the sourcebooks before MMM came out, but I'm still really happy to have it. I still need other books for subclasses, but now I can just pull out one book when I need to look up racial stuff instead of having to clutter my (fairly small) living room with half of my D&D library. This also makes my wife much happier, which makes my life easier.
I posted a separate thread to ask this question but, is the lore presented in MMM any different to that in Volos and Mordenkienans? For instance about things like the giants, the blood war, elves and illithids and gith?.
Nope. If there were things specific to a plane, they were taken out.
The fact I have bought all of the sourcebooks, and these changes are mostly what would have been errata in the past, I kind of feel cheated by WotC...
I am in 2 minds over this, on the one hand I get what your saying regarding the player character changes, in fact if you have purchased Tasha then the floating ASIs is taken care of anyway.
But if I was a new DM coming in then this is great for me, I can buy 1 book that has every additional player race and all the monsters in Volos and mordekeinans. It means I don’t need to buy a whole source book just for a player who wants to be a satyr, or a fairy. I will probably buy the manual when it is released on its own as it just reduces the number of books I am carrying around when I go to other peoples houses.
I had all the sourcebooks before MMM came out, but I'm still really happy to have it. I still need other books for subclasses, but now I can just pull out one book when I need to look up racial stuff instead of having to clutter my (fairly small) living room with half of my D&D library. This also makes my wife much happier, which makes my life easier.
I posted a separate thread to ask this question but, is the lore presented in MMM any different to that in Volos and Mordenkienans? For instance about things like the giants, the blood war, elves and illithids and gith?.
MMM is written to be fully setting agnostic, so only general information is given. The lore is either up to the DM to create, or is supposed to be found in the setting's specific sourecook.
The fact I have bought all of the sourcebooks, and these changes are mostly what would have been errata in the past, I kind of feel cheated by WotC...
It's been 10 years since the PHB came out. As mentioned, the main mechanical change already came with Tasha's so you're free to not buy it and cherry pick any races you specifically want. I'm as against greedy corporations as the next guy, but they do need to pay their employees. As far as scams go these days, this doesn't even make it on the list.
The fact I have bought all of the sourcebooks, and these changes are mostly what would have been errata in the past, I kind of feel cheated by WotC...
It's been 10 years since the PHB came out. As mentioned, the main mechanical change already came with Tasha's so you're free to not buy it and cherry pick any races you specifically want. I'm as against greedy corporations as the next guy, but they do need to pay their employees. As far as scams go these days, this doesn't even make it on the list.
I don't even bother speaking to it. Their personal feeling of that is valid, and I'm not going to assume/presume why they feel that way. Wizards and D&D by association has a decades long history of putting out the same exact content over and over and over and over again hoping people will buy it, and they have. Entire fandoms have been created around this concept.
That being said, it's been 7.5 years since the PHB came out, and it probably won't be 10 years unless 5.5 releases in August of 2024 or later, which since they said 2024 could very well happen.
Right my mistake, the 10 year thing in my head is the gap between the PHB and the upcoming "new" PHB. Still, I think if the complaint is "I already have this" then the obvious course of action is just not to buy it. I would love if there were a definitive electronic version that could be updated with errata, but I don't see Hasbro signing off on that while rereleased/updated material is still selling well.
The fact I have bought all of the sourcebooks, and these changes are mostly what would have been errata in the past, I kind of feel cheated by WotC...
Worth noting. When M3 was announced as coming to DDB, there was at least a dozen people all violently screaming at the top of their lungs that if DDB changed so much as one single letter in their old sourcebooks, if DDB "took away" anything they'd already bought, they'd leave the service and badmouth it to everyone they knew. A couple of folks even threatened to sue.
Neither Wizards nor DDB can make everyone happy here. People who just want the updates as freely supported errata get crapped on in favor of the folks who want their documents to be as fixed, inflexible, and unchanging as their players' PCs the granite bedrock upon which the Rocky Mountains rest. Nothing we can do about it except kick out thirty more bucks if we want the new junk, or homebrew up the changes ourselves. Which, frankly, is what my table has been doing. Just make a "+P" version of a given species to conform to the new standards and go. Wizards wants to play reindeer games with us and make the digital customers wait five months for a book, they can deal with people making partial use of the contents of that book without purchasing it through any of the half-dozen means available to a moderately competent Internettian.
Ok so that feels a little bad to me, you get the same rules but still need to buy Mordekeinans or Volos to get the Lore information about Elves etc, you will be paying twice for the same thing. Hopefully something they correct in future.
Ok so that feels a little bad to me, you get the same rules but still need to buy Mordekeinans or Volos to get the Lore information about Elves etc, you will be paying twice for the same thing. Hopefully something they correct in future.
How can it be the same thing if you don't have all of it while buying just one of them?
It's ok, I get your point. It seems moot to me though. If you want a book, you have to decide if it's worth the price to you. It's that simple.
Personally I'm beyond caring at this point. The decisions have been made. In my "do I want to keep supporting D&D/WotC?" file, they go in the "I guess maybe not" column. They're not absolutely horrible decisions, so they don't reverse my overall stance, but the whole thing's left a bad taste in my mouth nonetheless. We'll see how things go in the future.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I have no problem with the book's existence. I TOTALLY agree that it's awesome for new players/DMs as they can get all the info they want consolidated in a single source. I also understand if you use physical books how it might be useful to be able to pull 1 instead of searching various sources for race info.
However, as someone who's bought all the source materials that are being combined AND using primarily D&D beyond instead of books. I fall into a category of 90% of this book being info I already own.
Tasha's doesn't adjust all the races that this book does, it's a complete overhaul of a few races. The problem is 90% of the book is all reprint for me. So, I'm paying for 100% of the price for 10% of the info.
Just seems strange to release a product that so darn good for newer players while ripping off your biggest supporters who own all the books. I'd LOVE to have the 10% of this book that actually changes things. I'm just not going to pay for what I feel should be errata.
Ok so that feels a little bad to me, you get the same rules but still need to buy Mordekeinans or Volos to get the Lore information about Elves etc, you will be paying twice for the same thing. Hopefully something they correct in future.
How can it be the same thing if you don't have all of it while buying just one of them?
It's ok, I get your point. It seems moot to me though. If you want a book, you have to decide if it's worth the price to you. It's that simple.
Personally I'm beyond caring at this point. The decisions have been made. In my "do I want to keep supporting D&D/WotC?" file, they go in the "I guess maybe not" column. They're not absolutely horrible decisions, so they don't reverse my overall stance, but the whole thing's left a bad taste in my mouth nonetheless. We'll see how things go in the future.
Oh don’t get me wrong I just hope in the future the lore in Volos and mordenkeinans get repackaged in some way in an alternate book, I own both and will be getting MMM more because I like the idea of reworked monsters. But for new DMs, especially those with little experience who use the lore information for inspiration it seems a poor choice.
I guess I don't understand how it's ripping people off. No one is forcing anyone to buy it, so while it may well be a low value purchase for those who already own the originals...it's not ripping you off. I guess it could be made clearer that it's a redo? Then again, I don't think you'd be here airing grievances if you didn't already understand that, so I doubt that's the specific problem.
To put it in a different context, the core rule set comes with the PHB, MM, DMG and a screen. If you already have a screen and a PHB, then it's very poor value to get the set (unless you want to replace the PHB or get a second copy or whatever) for you. That doesn't make it a rip off, it's just not for you. That's allowed, and doesn't make WotC evil. If you don't think the updates are worth paying for, then you shouldn't feel obligated to buy it. I bought it because it was really useful for me - I only had the core rules and a few adventures previously - but that doesn't mean that you have to. Just as buying the core rules set would be bad for some and they shouldn't buy that.
If you already have VGtM and MToF and consider the updates to not be worth £35, then...save yourself £35. It's saved me some money so I didn't have to buy two separate books, but that's me.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I was wondering whether or not the playable races that will become available in Mordenkainen's new book will automatically be updated, or does someone like me, who has unlocked a lot of playable races previously, need to buy the races again to unlock the updated features? Does anyone know?
It's been stated that the options found in Monster's of the Multiverse will not replace anything you already own. This means that if you want these new versions, you will need to purchase the book.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Ah, okay. Good to know, thank you.
Keep in mind that many of the changes are largely cosmetic: setting-specific references removed, no hardcoded alignments, no fixed racial ASIs in the case of player races, that sort of thing. There are changes that have more impact as well - more magical abilities to replace leveled spells using spells slots, etc - but if you already own most of the material in its original form you might just want to leave these updates be. The original content will still work just fine with new material to be released in the future.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I tend to play genasi a lot, and I've looked over their updates and might just opt to buy those alone and leave the rest be as it is.
The fact I have bought all of the sourcebooks, and these changes are mostly what would have been errata in the past, I kind of feel cheated by WotC...
I am in 2 minds over this, on the one hand I get what your saying regarding the player character changes, in fact if you have purchased Tasha then the floating ASIs is taken care of anyway.
But if I was a new DM coming in then this is great for me, I can buy 1 book that has every additional player race and all the monsters in Volos and mordekeinans. It means I don’t need to buy a whole source book just for a player who wants to be a satyr, or a fairy. I will probably buy the manual when it is released on its own as it just reduces the number of books I am carrying around when I go to other peoples houses.
I had all the sourcebooks before MMM came out, but I'm still really happy to have it. I still need other books for subclasses, but now I can just pull out one book when I need to look up racial stuff instead of having to clutter my (fairly small) living room with half of my D&D library. This also makes my wife much happier, which makes my life easier.
I posted a separate thread to ask this question but, is the lore presented in MMM any different to that in Volos and Mordenkienans? For instance about things like the giants, the blood war, elves and illithids and gith?.
Nope. If there were things specific to a plane, they were taken out.
MMM is written to be fully setting agnostic, so only general information is given. The lore is either up to the DM to create, or is supposed to be found in the setting's specific sourecook.
It's been 10 years since the PHB came out. As mentioned, the main mechanical change already came with Tasha's so you're free to not buy it and cherry pick any races you specifically want. I'm as against greedy corporations as the next guy, but they do need to pay their employees. As far as scams go these days, this doesn't even make it on the list.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I don't even bother speaking to it. Their personal feeling of that is valid, and I'm not going to assume/presume why they feel that way. Wizards and D&D by association has a decades long history of putting out the same exact content over and over and over and over again hoping people will buy it, and they have. Entire fandoms have been created around this concept.
That being said, it's been 7.5 years since the PHB came out, and it probably won't be 10 years unless 5.5 releases in August of 2024 or later, which since they said 2024 could very well happen.
Right my mistake, the 10 year thing in my head is the gap between the PHB and the upcoming "new" PHB. Still, I think if the complaint is "I already have this" then the obvious course of action is just not to buy it. I would love if there were a definitive electronic version that could be updated with errata, but I don't see Hasbro signing off on that while rereleased/updated material is still selling well.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Worth noting. When M3 was announced as coming to DDB, there was at least a dozen people all violently screaming at the top of their lungs that if DDB changed so much as one single letter in their old sourcebooks, if DDB "took away" anything they'd already bought, they'd leave the service and badmouth it to everyone they knew. A couple of folks even threatened to sue.
Neither Wizards nor DDB can make everyone happy here. People who just want the updates as freely supported errata get crapped on in favor of the folks who want their documents to be as fixed, inflexible, and unchanging as
their players' PCsthe granite bedrock upon which the Rocky Mountains rest. Nothing we can do about it except kick out thirty more bucks if we want the new junk, or homebrew up the changes ourselves. Which, frankly, is what my table has been doing. Just make a "+P" version of a given species to conform to the new standards and go. Wizards wants to play reindeer games with us and make the digital customers wait five months for a book, they can deal with people making partial use of the contents of that book without purchasing it through any of the half-dozen means available to a moderately competent Internettian.Please do not contact or message me.
Ok so that feels a little bad to me, you get the same rules but still need to buy Mordekeinans or Volos to get the Lore information about Elves etc, you will be paying twice for the same thing. Hopefully something they correct in future.
How can it be the same thing if you don't have all of it while buying just one of them?
It's ok, I get your point. It seems moot to me though. If you want a book, you have to decide if it's worth the price to you. It's that simple.
Personally I'm beyond caring at this point. The decisions have been made. In my "do I want to keep supporting D&D/WotC?" file, they go in the "I guess maybe not" column. They're not absolutely horrible decisions, so they don't reverse my overall stance, but the whole thing's left a bad taste in my mouth nonetheless. We'll see how things go in the future.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I have no problem with the book's existence. I TOTALLY agree that it's awesome for new players/DMs as they can get all the info they want consolidated in a single source. I also understand if you use physical books how it might be useful to be able to pull 1 instead of searching various sources for race info.
However, as someone who's bought all the source materials that are being combined AND using primarily D&D beyond instead of books. I fall into a category of 90% of this book being info I already own.
Tasha's doesn't adjust all the races that this book does, it's a complete overhaul of a few races. The problem is 90% of the book is all reprint for me. So, I'm paying for 100% of the price for 10% of the info.
Just seems strange to release a product that so darn good for newer players while ripping off your biggest supporters who own all the books. I'd LOVE to have the 10% of this book that actually changes things. I'm just not going to pay for what I feel should be errata.
Oh don’t get me wrong I just hope in the future the lore in Volos and mordenkeinans get repackaged in some way in an alternate book, I own both and will be getting MMM more because I like the idea of reworked monsters. But for new DMs, especially those with little experience who use the lore information for inspiration it seems a poor choice.
I guess I don't understand how it's ripping people off. No one is forcing anyone to buy it, so while it may well be a low value purchase for those who already own the originals...it's not ripping you off. I guess it could be made clearer that it's a redo? Then again, I don't think you'd be here airing grievances if you didn't already understand that, so I doubt that's the specific problem.
To put it in a different context, the core rule set comes with the PHB, MM, DMG and a screen. If you already have a screen and a PHB, then it's very poor value to get the set (unless you want to replace the PHB or get a second copy or whatever) for you. That doesn't make it a rip off, it's just not for you. That's allowed, and doesn't make WotC evil. If you don't think the updates are worth paying for, then you shouldn't feel obligated to buy it. I bought it because it was really useful for me - I only had the core rules and a few adventures previously - but that doesn't mean that you have to. Just as buying the core rules set would be bad for some and they shouldn't buy that.
If you already have VGtM and MToF and consider the updates to not be worth £35, then...save yourself £35. It's saved me some money so I didn't have to buy two separate books, but that's me.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.