MDGA

Ok so we've talked a bit about what we dislike with modern Adohand's, but what about what we liked with past Adohand's that seems gone now?

Quote from LinkArcher >>

Quote from boss0tron3000 >>

The storybook idea? How would it work?

 You could roleplay as any storybook character from any world, set in between the pages of a book. The book could be any of your choice!

 Really?

*Evil thoughts start forming...*

Quote from TheMadGibber >>

Ok so we've talked a bit about what we dislike with modern Adohand's, but what about what we liked with past Adohand's that seems gone now?

 I miss the God TTRPG. We tried reviving it, and it failed, but I had a lot of my first friendships form on that thread.

Quote from boss0tron3000 >>

Quote from LinkArcher >>

Quote from boss0tron3000 >>

The storybook idea? How would it work?

 You could roleplay as any storybook character from any world, set in between the pages of a book. The book could be any of your choice!

 Really?

*Evil thoughts start forming...*

 Anything appropriate, of course.

Quote from LinkArcher >>

Quote from boss0tron3000 >>

Quote from LinkArcher >>

Quote from boss0tron3000 >>

The storybook idea? How would it work?

 You could roleplay as any storybook character from any world, set in between the pages of a book. The book could be any of your choice!

 Really?

*Evil thoughts start forming...*

 Anything appropriate, of course.

 Can there be a character I made in a story I made?

Quote from boss0tron3000 >>

Quote from LinkArcher >>

Quote from boss0tron3000 >>

Quote from LinkArcher >>

Quote from boss0tron3000 >>

The storybook idea? How would it work?

 You could roleplay as any storybook character from any world, set in between the pages of a book. The book could be any of your choice!

 Really?

*Evil thoughts start forming...*

 Anything appropriate, of course.

 Can there be a character I made in a story I made?

 Anything from any fictional world!

Quote from LinkArcher >>

Quote from TheMadGibber >>

Ok so we've talked a bit about what we dislike with modern Adohand's, but what about what we liked with past Adohand's that seems gone now?

 I miss the God TTRPG. We tried reviving it, and it failed, but I had a lot of my first friendships form on that thread.

 Well I meant more generally (like "I miss this aspect from previous threads" or "no threads have this nowadays"), but good start!

Quote from LinkArcher >>

Quote from boss0tron3000 >>

Quote from LinkArcher >>

Quote from boss0tron3000 >>

Quote from LinkArcher >>

Quote from boss0tron3000 >>

The storybook idea? How would it work?

 You could roleplay as any storybook character from any world, set in between the pages of a book. The book could be any of your choice!

 Really?

*Evil thoughts start forming...*

 Anything appropriate, of course.

 Can there be a character I made in a story I made?

 Anything from any fictional world!

 I'm asking because I have a multiversal being I want to be.

Quote from TheMadGibber >>

Quote from LinkArcher >>

Quote from TheMadGibber >>

Ok so we've talked a bit about what we dislike with modern Adohand's, but what about what we liked with past Adohand's that seems gone now?

 I miss the God TTRPG. We tried reviving it, and it failed, but I had a lot of my first friendships form on that thread.

 Well I meant more generally (like "I miss this aspect from previous threads" or "no threads have this nowadays"), but good start!

 I kinda miss the light-hearted whimsy with an underlying horror of Heijo High.

Quote from boss0tron3000 >>

Quote from LinkArcher >>

Quote from boss0tron3000 >>

Quote from LinkArcher >>

Quote from boss0tron3000 >>

Quote from LinkArcher >>

Quote from boss0tron3000 >>

The storybook idea? How would it work?

 You could roleplay as any storybook character from any world, set in between the pages of a book. The book could be any of your choice!

 Really?

*Evil thoughts start forming...*

 Anything appropriate, of course.

 Can there be a character I made in a story I made?

 Anything from any fictional world!

 I'm asking because I have a multiversal being I want to be.

 good to know, if there is combat I have three different characters that are as strong as kirby.

Quote from boss0tron3000 >>

Quote from LinkArcher >>

Quote from boss0tron3000 >>

Quote from LinkArcher >>

Quote from boss0tron3000 >>

Quote from LinkArcher >>

Quote from boss0tron3000 >>

The storybook idea? How would it work?

 You could roleplay as any storybook character from any world, set in between the pages of a book. The book could be any of your choice!

 Really?

*Evil thoughts start forming...*

 Anything appropriate, of course.

 Can there be a character I made in a story I made?

 Anything from any fictional world!

 I'm asking because I have a multiversal being I want to be.

 What is it?

I've been RPing as fragments of her, Yuki Natsuki, the Nine Tailed Fox Goddess of the Multiverse.

Quote from boss0tron3000 >>

I've been RPing as fragments of her, Yuki Natsuki, the Nine Tailed Fox Goddess of the Multiverse.

 oh, cool!

Quote from atomicgamer2012_13 >>

Quote from boss0tron3000 >>

I've been RPing as fragments of her, Yuki Natsuki, the Nine Tailed Fox Goddess of the Multiverse.

 oh, cool!

 She was the first thing in existence, she made the heavens and the immortals in each universe.

A number of posts on this thread confirm what I have long thought about Adohands - it is, hands down, the most gatekept part of these forums.  If one does not comport to how one is “expected” to act on this subsection, they are often met with derision.  On this thread, for example, the complaints have been on folks acting “too silly,” who multiple users have said should be excluded or relegated to other places.  On others, anyone who actually wants to post something meaningful on a subject - instead of the minimal replies to increasingly long one-sentence reply chains - might get mocked for being too wordy.  

Other issues include the fact that the entire subsection of the forums is dominated by the same generally insular friend group repeatedly making inside jokes referencing other threads, so those on thread A feel excluded because they were never part of thread B.  Threads that might ostensively being on one topic being hijacks by users using the topic for a personal messaging board, thinking italicized quotes excuses off-topic discussion.  And a proliferation of taverns that have turned Adohand’s from a place where one can discuss off topic conversations to an endless stream of taverns and insular joke threads that drown out the fundamental purpose of and off-topic section.  The numerous rules on how one is “supposed” to format posts that are known to the inside community, but are a barrier to entry for new users.

What should be done?

If I were Wizards, I would probably remove this entire forum section, for reasons I will not go into on this thread.  That, obviously, will not happen.

Instead, I think Wizards should split Adohand’s into two sections - a true off topic forum dedicated to discussion and an entire forum dedicated to taverns (likely with similar rules regarding post counts as the forum games section).  That would not solve some of the cultural gatekeeping elements of this community, but it would at least create a place where true off topic threads could thrive without competing for airspace.  More moderation would also be helpful - it is abundantly clear there exists a lack of moderation on this subsection.

That, however, is all unlikely to happen.

So, what can the community do?  The community can realize that a lot of their behavior that they see as friendly constitutes micro-aggressions against new users - not even counting the active aggressions on display on this and other threads.  If folks what to make new users feel welcome, they need to stop engaging in behaviors that scream “we are an exiting friend group who have turned this section of the forum into our clubhouse.”  The clique atmosphere created here is likely a primary source of the issues folks are raising about new users feeling “shy” - it is less they feel shy, and more feel excluded without any clear path to inclusion.

Some ways folks could fix that:

1. Actually staying on topic for a thread. The constant asides and conversations make every thread feel like another social facet of the clique, making it hard for folks to break into a single thread, even if they are interested in the topic. Everything dos not need to be “topic thread plus our using this topic for socializing” - those only interested in the topic are then excluded from the part they might want to discuss.

2. Be very careful about using inside jokes - especially inside jokes referencing different threads.  Inside jokes are inherently exclusionary - and while they can be fun, they also make those on the outside feel left out.

3. Only post when you have something meaningful to contribute. Off topic posts, spam posts, posts with one word responses - all of these drown out legitimate conversation and make folks who want to have a conversation think “huh, I am here to discuss something I am interested in, but no one else is. In fact, I kind of feel insulted that I spent time on a post, and got a bunch of spam, one-word responses instead of dialogue. Guess this is not worth my time.”  This is what killed a lot of the older off topic threads that more traditionally resembled off topic threads.

4. Stop with the long post chains.  They make the website harder to read and thus turn off new users. After all, they are not yet invested in the community, and it is very easy to conclude “wow, this endless scrolling to engage in a conversation is not worth the effort.” 

5. There is a culture here of “I have to make threads” that also causes a problem. Redundant and repetitive threads because someone wants to increase their thread count drown out other topics of conversation by pushing them off the front page.  When making a new thread, one should always ask the questions: “Has someone done this before?” “Will this actually add something?” And “Am I doing this because I think others will actually be interested, or is this for my own personal status?”

If folks are actually interested in making Adohand’s more welcoming, change starts with recognizing that the fundamental culture of this subsection is a far greater problem than the perceived shyness of new users.  Change would have to start within, with some significant cultural shifts in how folks use this subsection.  Frankly, I see that as about as likely as Wizards taking any of the options outlined above - but, who knows. Maybe it will happen. 

I do want to be clear, this post is not designed to insult anyone - and my intent is to be genuinely helpful. Folks on this thread expressed a genuine desire to make the place more welcoming, and I wanted to chime in and say the hard truths people are unlikely to otherwise voice.  Sometimes saying something no one wants to give a voice to, even something a bit candid, is the best help one can provide.

With that, I am unfollowing this thread - I said my piece and think it is good advice. It is now up to y’all to do what you will.

Quote from boss0tron3000 >>

Quote from atomicgamer2012_13 >>

Quote from boss0tron3000 >>

I've been RPing as fragments of her, Yuki Natsuki, the Nine Tailed Fox Goddess of the Multiverse.

 oh, cool!

 She was the first thing in existence, she made the heavens and the immortals in each universe.

 funny story, I have universes in universes in universes in my imagonation world. when I get bored I just add more layers.

I really liked what you said, and I agree with you on most accounts. I think inside jokes should be limited but not all together gone.

Quote from Caerwyn_Glyndwr >>

A number of posts on this thread confirm what I have long thought about Adohands - it is, hands down, the most gatekept part of these forums.  If one does not comport to how one is “expected” to act on this subsection, they are often met with derision.  On this thread, for example, the complaints have been on folks acting “too silly,” who multiple users have said should be excluded or relegated to other places.  On others, anyone who actually wants to post something meaningful on a subject - instead of the minimal replies to increasingly long one-sentence reply chains - might get mocked for being too wordy.  

Other issues include the fact that the entire subsection of the forums is dominated by the same generally insular friend group repeatedly making inside jokes referencing other threads, so those on thread A feel excluded because they were never part of thread B.  Threads that might ostensively being on one topic being hijacks by users using the topic for a personal messaging board, thinking italicized quotes excuses off-topic discussion.  And a proliferation of taverns that have turned Adohand’s from a place where one can discuss off topic conversations to an endless stream of taverns and insular joke threads that drown out the fundamental purpose of and off-topic section.  The numerous rules on how one is “supposed” to format posts that are known to the inside community, but are a barrier to entry for new users.

What should be done?

If I were Wizards, I would probably remove this entire forum section, for reasons I will not go into on this thread.  That, obviously, will not happen.

Instead, I think Wizards should split Adohand’s into two sections - a true off topic forum dedicated to discussion and an entire forum dedicated to taverns (likely with similar rules regarding post counts as the forum games section).  That would not solve some of the cultural gatekeeping elements of this community, but it would at least create a place where true off topic threads could thrive without competing for airspace.  More moderation would also be helpful - it is abundantly clear there exists a lack of moderation on this subsection.

That, however, is all unlikely to happen.

So, what can the community do?  The community can realize that a lot of their behavior that they see as friendly constitutes micro-aggressions against new users - not even counting the active aggressions on display on this and other threads.  If folks what to make new users feel welcome, they need to stop engaging in behaviors that scream “we are an exiting friend group who have turned this section of the forum into our clubhouse.”  The clique atmosphere created here is likely a primary source of the issues folks are raising about new users feeling “shy” - it is less they feel shy, and more feel excluded without any clear path to inclusion.

Some ways folks could fix that:

1. Actually staying on topic for a thread. The constant asides and conversations make every thread feel like another social facet of the clique, making it hard for folks to break into a single thread, even if they are interested in the topic. Everything dos not need to be “topic thread plus our using this topic for socializing” - those only interested in the topic are then excluded from the part they might want to discuss.

2. Be very careful about using inside jokes - especially inside jokes referencing different threads.  Inside jokes are inherently exclusionary - and while they can be fun, they also make those on the outside feel left out.

3. Only post when you have something meaningful to contribute. Off topic posts, spam posts, posts with one word responses - all of these drown out legitimate conversation and make folks who want to have a conversation think “huh, I am here to discuss something I am interested in, but no one else is. In fact, I kind of feel insulted that I spent time on a post, and got a bunch of spam, one-word responses instead of dialogue. Guess this is not worth my time.”  This is what killed a lot of the older off topic threads that more traditionally resembled off topic threads.

4. Stop with the long post chains.  They make the website harder to read and thus turn off new users. After all, they are not yet invested in the community, and it is very easy to conclude “wow, this endless scrolling to engage in a conversation is not worth the effort.” 

5. There is a culture here of “I have to make threads” that also causes a problem. Redundant and repetitive threads because someone wants to increase their thread count drown out other topics of conversation by pushing them off the front page.  When making a new thread, one should always ask the questions: “Has someone done this before?” “Will this actually add something?” And “Am I doing this because I think others will actually be interested, or is this for my own personal status?”

If folks are actually interested in making Adohand’s more welcoming, change starts with recognizing that the fundamental culture of this subsection is a far greater problem than the perceived shyness of new users.  Change would have to start within, with some significant cultural shifts in how folks use this subsection.  Frankly, I see that as about as likely as Wizards taking any of the options outlined above - but, who knows. Maybe it will happen. 

I do want to be clear, this post is not designed to insult anyone - and my intent is to be genuinely helpful. Folks on this thread expressed a genuine desire to make the place more welcoming, and I wanted to chime in and say the hard truths people are unlikely to otherwise voice.  Sometimes saying something no one wants to give a voice to, even something a bit candid, is the best help one can provide.

With that, I am unfollowing this thread - I said my piece and think it is good advice. It is now up to y’all to do what you will.

 Was gonna bite back, but yeah you make a lot of sense. I think a few things I would like to clarify is that I personally make threads because I want to roleplay in their setting, and DnD beyond is my favorite place to do that, as there’s no literacy limit. It’s incredibly hard to fish through a ton of old threads looking for one with the same idea, and sometimes the fun is just in making the thread. Also thread necromancy is against the rules, but nobody really cares. 

Imma respond to this more once I’m less distracted. 

Oh, question, do you think taverns and the play by post forums should both have a thing on posts, or just taverns? I think I’d probably be okay with it if both, but they really do feel like the same thing sometimes-in fact, I sometimes see myself putting a lot more effort into my taverns than into my campaigns. 

I sorta do agree that Adohands should prooooobably shut down, for probably different reasons than you think (that I also will not go into here as mods will be on me in a quick burst of light). Also yes I would love more moderation in Adohands, please mods if you see this, more moderation, PLEASE 

You make a really good point here, and when I say here, I realize I should have organized my post better, but the 10th and 11th paragraph (counting one liners as paragraphs here)

Something else I’d like to say is that DnD beyond is for DnD, and we have whole other areas on the internet for stuff like Adohands. I personally use Discord, although it’s not very system-y which is what a ton of people here like.

For points 4 and 5 (realized that was easier than naming the paragraphs) I think you figured something out. Thanks for your input.

I would love more input, so if you come back to this thread and see this, feel free to give us more feedback. I think there definitely is a clique, that has secret rules, I was not part of the clique when I started but eventually I became part of it once I learned the rules. And now I honestly consider myself one of the people that makes the rules for the clique on Adohands, so I’m gonna work on maybe changing some things? Idk.

I don't think adohands-kitchen should be gone, people like me may only have adohands-kitchen as access to other areas of the internet.