Most games don't get to level 20 (or so I'm told) so the idea of missing out on what is arguably the best capstone ability isn't really a concern for me. That being the case, is there any reason NOT to MC a Barb into 1 level of Rogue?
You lose a couple of HP (D8 vs D12) but otherwise look at the gains.
1) You get more Skills, something I think the Barb badly needs.
2) You get Expertise with two of those skills.
3) You get Sneak Attack and the most reliable way to use it that I know of. Either you need an ally within 5' of the target or Advantage on your Attack. Reckless Attack anyone?
All this being said, you're not giving up much for some Skills, Expertise on two Skills, and what amounts to a free D6 of damage per turn IMHO.
A level in rogue is appealing on a lot of characters. That being said, note that Sneak Attack requires a finesse weapon and barbarians are typically using something heavier.
And that d6 isn't quite "free." You are one level behind a regular barb for a lot of features. Extra Attack, Feral Instinct, rage/crit upgrades, subclass features, etc.
So not a bad choice, but not exactly a no-brainer either as there are some trade-offs.
I have a 5 barb/5 rogue and I like it a lot. I use the revenant double-bladed scimitar as it's the largest finesse weapon possible (and it comes with a BA attack). It's extremely mobile and Uncanny Dodge/Evasion on top of rage resistance makes you very durable. Also quite skilled, especially if you start as a rogue and have the Tasha's option that gives barbs a couple extra skills as they level.
One other pairing I've been tinkering with is a Beast Barbarian/Soulknife. You go into battle naked and empty-handed, rage and grow claws, and then you can manifest your soulknife to attack with Sneak Attack, use Extra Attack to claw twice, and then manifest your other soulknife to attack as a bonus action. It can make four attacks in a turn by level 8 without any weapon-juggling loopholes (although you'll need your BA for rage on the first turn).
Rage and reckless attack are restricted to strength-based attacks, which is often overlooked. So a couple levels of Barbarian in your rogue for reckless IS worthwhile, IF your Str>Dex but are still using finesse weapons.
I would say that a Barbarian splash helps a (strength based) rogue more than rogue helps a Barbarian. The 3ish damage you would pick up from a d6 sneak attack on a d8 rapier, could also have been a 2d6 greatsword or 1d12 great axe (and GWM…) in the first place, far more dependably.
If you're going to do it, it's worth starting as Rogue for the extra skills. Then go Barb from there on out. And agreed on the Sneak Attack - it's not worth as much as people think.
Don't misunderstand - Rogue is a great (starting, especially) dip for Barbarian, just don't get too excited about Sneak Attack. The rest of what Rogue brings to the party is what it's all about...
Yeah, it's usually always best to start out as a a Rogue if you want it for multiclass purposes. That said, Unless I had a very specific purpose I probably wouldn't MC the Barbarian. Even if you don't go to level 20 you will still be one step behind on all the good stuff you get from Barbarian. But it's all matter of taste. :)
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Most games don't get to level 20 (or so I'm told) so the idea of missing out on what is arguably the best capstone ability isn't really a concern for me. That being the case, is there any reason NOT to MC a Barb into 1 level of Rogue?
You lose a couple of HP (D8 vs D12) but otherwise look at the gains.
1) You get more Skills, something I think the Barb badly needs.
2) You get Expertise with two of those skills.
3) You get Sneak Attack and the most reliable way to use it that I know of. Either you need an ally within 5' of the target or Advantage on your Attack. Reckless Attack anyone?
All this being said, you're not giving up much for some Skills, Expertise on two Skills, and what amounts to a free D6 of damage per turn IMHO.
Any thoughts about this one way or the other?
A level in rogue is appealing on a lot of characters. That being said, note that Sneak Attack requires a finesse weapon and barbarians are typically using something heavier.
And that d6 isn't quite "free." You are one level behind a regular barb for a lot of features. Extra Attack, Feral Instinct, rage/crit upgrades, subclass features, etc.
So not a bad choice, but not exactly a no-brainer either as there are some trade-offs.
I have a 5 barb/5 rogue and I like it a lot. I use the revenant double-bladed scimitar as it's the largest finesse weapon possible (and it comes with a BA attack). It's extremely mobile and Uncanny Dodge/Evasion on top of rage resistance makes you very durable. Also quite skilled, especially if you start as a rogue and have the Tasha's option that gives barbs a couple extra skills as they level.
One other pairing I've been tinkering with is a Beast Barbarian/Soulknife. You go into battle naked and empty-handed, rage and grow claws, and then you can manifest your soulknife to attack with Sneak Attack, use Extra Attack to claw twice, and then manifest your other soulknife to attack as a bonus action. It can make four attacks in a turn by level 8 without any weapon-juggling loopholes (although you'll need your BA for rage on the first turn).
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Rage and reckless attack are restricted to strength-based attacks, which is often overlooked. So a couple levels of Barbarian in your rogue for reckless IS worthwhile, IF your Str>Dex but are still using finesse weapons.
I would say that a Barbarian splash helps a (strength based) rogue more than rogue helps a Barbarian. The 3ish damage you would pick up from a d6 sneak attack on a d8 rapier, could also have been a 2d6 greatsword or 1d12 great axe (and GWM…) in the first place, far more dependably.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Yeah, considering weapon choices, you are only gaining 1-1.5 damage from sneak attack compared to a 2-handed barb.
TCoE gives barbarians more skills (barbarian skills).
It isn't a bad dip. I especially like getting expertise in athletics for grapple builds.
If you're going to do it, it's worth starting as Rogue for the extra skills. Then go Barb from there on out. And agreed on the Sneak Attack - it's not worth as much as people think.
Ah, I'd missed the caveat that Sneak Attack requires a ranged or Finesse weapon. I knew it was too good to be true.
Thanks, everyone.
Don't misunderstand - Rogue is a great (starting, especially) dip for Barbarian, just don't get too excited about Sneak Attack. The rest of what Rogue brings to the party is what it's all about...
Yeah, it's usually always best to start out as a a Rogue if you want it for multiclass purposes. That said, Unless I had a very specific purpose I probably wouldn't MC the Barbarian. Even if you don't go to level 20 you will still be one step behind on all the good stuff you get from Barbarian. But it's all matter of taste. :)