The question is: while alter self (natural weapons) is active w/ Fighter: unarmed fighting style (and not wielding any weapons) is the damage for unarmed strike: Str Bonus + 1d8 +1 (slash/bludgeoning/piercing as determined by alter self)?
Your unarmed strikes can deal bludgeoning damage equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier on a hit. If you aren’t wielding any weapons or a shield when you make the attack roll, the d6 becomes a d8
Considering: RAW, SAC any references are greatly appreciated
and please if you're voting - state your reason :)
Natural Weapons are Weapons that can make Unarmed Strikes (for clarity, SAC), but are you wielding them?
Questions to resolve: 1) are you wielding natural weapons? If yes, then armed fighting style doesn't seem to apply; if no unarmed fighting style would apply. 2) if the answer to 1 is no, then is the damage dice (and Strength Bonus? would that be a given regardless?) on Alter Self's natural weapons effected by Unarmed Fighting Style
It looks like if a feature uses both terms it can count for both. Alter self seems to make natural weapons that you can use to make unarmed strikes. Making unarmed strikes is all that is important to the fighting style. I'd let it work.
Though I'm not 100% sure on that. Natural weapons are weapons?
I don't know now.
The fighting style says the unarmed strike damage goes from 1d6 to 1d8 if you aren't wielding any weapons. I've seen tweets from WotC people saying that natural weapons don't work with TWF even with the Dual Wielder feat because the TWF rule says you have to be "holding" the weapons. If you aren't holding them, I would argue you aren't wielding them either, and thus the Unarmed Fighting style will bump your attacks to 1d8. It's also worth noting that the natural weapons from Alter Self don't have to be claws, they can be fangs, horns etc.
The fighting style says the unarmed strike damage goes from 1d6 to 1d8 if you aren't wielding any weapons. I've seen tweets from WotC people saying that natural weapons don't work with TWF even with the Dual Wielder feat because the TWF rule says you have to be "holding" the weapons. If you aren't holding them, I would argue you aren't wielding them either, and thus the Unarmed Fighting style will bump your attacks to 1d8. It's also worth noting that the natural weapons from Alter Self don't have to be claws, they can be fangs, horns etc.
When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other hand. You don’t add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative.
If either weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon, instead of making a melee attack with it.
Holding would seem to be synonymous to wielding with this, and it fits with the definition of wielding in this usage: to handle, to hold.
I was also thinking that with Alter Self you could flavor for a more mystical martial arts approach: iron fist / palm etc. .... Chrome dome? head butt!
The advice on races may eventually change IIRC, as apparently, all racial attacks became unarmed strikes for the races listed in the new book Monsters of the Multiverse. That seems to be the new model.
Yeah this spell words it in a very roundabout way, but natural weapons can only make unarmed strikes if the feature specifically says they can. Racial features all have that language, but something like the Path of the Beast Barbarian's claw attack do not.
The question is: while alter self (natural weapons) is active w/ Fighter: unarmed fighting style (and not wielding any weapons)
is the damage for unarmed strike: Str Bonus + 1d8 +1 (slash/bludgeoning/piercing as determined by alter self)?
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/tcoe/fighter#UnarmedFighting
Unarmed Fighting
Your unarmed strikes can deal bludgeoning damage equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier on a hit. If you aren’t wielding any weapons or a shield when you make the attack roll, the d6 becomes a d8
https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/alter-self
Alter Self
Considering: RAW, SAC
any references are greatly appreciated
and please if you're voting - state your reason :)
Natural Weapons are Weapons that can make Unarmed Strikes (for clarity, SAC), but are you wielding them?
Questions to resolve:
1) are you wielding natural weapons? If yes, then armed fighting style doesn't seem to apply; if no unarmed fighting style would apply.
2) if the answer to 1 is no, then is the damage dice (and Strength Bonus? would that be a given regardless?) on Alter Self's natural weapons effected by Unarmed Fighting Style
edited to refine the question better
https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/951997185977040896?lang=en
It looks like if a feature uses both terms it can count for both. Alter self seems to make natural weapons that you can use to make unarmed strikes. Making unarmed strikes is all that is important to the fighting style. I'd let it work.
Though I'm not 100% sure on that. Natural weapons are weapons?
I don't know now.
The fighting style says the unarmed strike damage goes from 1d6 to 1d8 if you aren't wielding any weapons. I've seen tweets from WotC people saying that natural weapons don't work with TWF even with the Dual Wielder feat because the TWF rule says you have to be "holding" the weapons. If you aren't holding them, I would argue you aren't wielding them either, and thus the Unarmed Fighting style will bump your attacks to 1d8. It's also worth noting that the natural weapons from Alter Self don't have to be claws, they can be fangs, horns etc.
Excellent catch! I do recall seeing that.
including link to TWF:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/combat#TwoWeaponFighting
Two-Weapon Fighting
When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other hand. You don’t add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative.
If either weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon, instead of making a melee attack with it.
Holding would seem to be synonymous to wielding with this, and it fits with the definition of wielding in this usage: to handle, to hold.
I was also thinking that with Alter Self you could flavor for a more mystical martial arts approach: iron fist / palm etc. .... Chrome dome? head butt!
Yeah. Looks like this works the same as races with natural weapons and monk levels.
The advice on races may eventually change IIRC, as apparently, all racial attacks became unarmed strikes for the races listed in the new book Monsters of the Multiverse. That seems to be the new model.
Yeah this spell words it in a very roundabout way, but natural weapons can only make unarmed strikes if the feature specifically says they can. Racial features all have that language, but something like the Path of the Beast Barbarian's claw attack do not.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm