RAW/RAI Greater Divine Intervention + Wish = Cleric Army?

A debate I’m having: Which class is better at Level 20, Wizards or Clerics?  By default, wizards have wish therefore they beat clerics.  Except……

Greater Divine Intervention allows Clerics to cast Wish.  Which allows them to cast simulacrum.  Which allows each simulacrum to use GDI to cast wish and simulacrum.  Essentially, a level 20 Cleric can create an army of simulacrum clerics without material components, round by round.  And unlike wizards, each simulacrum will still have their 9th level spell slot because wish comes from the divine not their spell slots.

Am I reading this wrong?  Thoughts?

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Text of Greater Divine Intervention:

You can call on even more powerful divine intervention. When you use your Divine Intervention feature, you can choose Wish when you select a spell. If you do so, you can’t use Divine Intervention again until you finish 2d4 Long Rests.

Text of Wish:

Wish is the mightiest spell a mortal can cast. By simply speaking aloud, you can alter reality itself.

The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of level 8 or lower. If you use it this way, you don’t need to meet any requirements to cast that spell, including costly components. The spell simply takes effect.

Alternatively, you can create one of the following effects of your choice:

Object Creation. You create one object of up to 25,000 GP in value that isn’t a magic item. The object can be no more than 300 feet in any dimension, and it appears in an unoccupied space that you can see on the ground.

Instant Health. You allow yourself and up to twenty creatures that you can see to regain all Hit Points, and you end all effects on them listed in the Greater Restoration spell.

Resistance. You grant up to ten creatures that you can see Resistance to one damage type that you choose. This Resistance is permanent.

Spell Immunity. You grant up to ten creatures you can see immunity to a single spell or other magical effect for 8 hours.

Sudden Learning. You replace one of your feats with another feat for which you are eligible. You lose all the benefits of the old feat and gain the benefits of the new one. You can’t replace a feat that is a prerequisite for any of your other feats or features.

Roll Redo. You undo a single recent event by forcing a reroll of any die roll made within the last round (including your last turn). Reality reshapes itself to accommodate the new result. For example, a Wishspell could undo an ally’s failed saving throw or a foe’s Critical Hit. You can force the reroll to be made with Advantage or Disadvantage, and you choose whether to use the reroll or the original roll.

Reshape Reality. You may wish for something not included in any of the other effects. To do so, state your wish to the DM as precisely as possible. The DM has great latitude in ruling what occurs in such an instance; the greater the wish, the greater the likelihood that something goes wrong. This spell might simply fail, the effect you desire might be achieved only in part, or you might suffer an unforeseen consequence as a result of how you worded the wish. For example, wishing that a villain were dead might propel you forward in time to a period when that villain is no longer alive, effectively removing you from the game. Similarly, wishing for a Legendary magic item or an Artifact might instantly transport you to the presence of the item’s current owner. If your wish is granted and its effects have consequences for a whole community, region, or world, you are likely to attract powerful foes. If your wish would affect a god, the god’s divine servants might instantly intervene to prevent it or to encourage you to craft the wish in a particular way. If your wish would undo the multiverse itself, threaten the City of Sigil, or affect the Lady of Pain in any way, you see an image of her in your mind for a moment; she shakes her head, and your wishfails.

The stress of casting Wish to produce any effect other than duplicating another spell weakens you. After enduring that stress, each time you cast a spell until you finish a Long Rest, you take 1d10 Necrotic damage per level of that spell. This damage can’t be reduced or prevented in any way. In addition, your Strength score becomes 3 for 2d4 days. For each of those days that you spend resting and doing nothing more than light activity, your remaining recovery time decreases by 2 days. Finally, there is a 33 percent chance that you are unable to cast Wish ever again if you suffer this stress.

Text of Simulacrum:

You create a simulacrum of one Beast or Humanoid that is within 10 feet of you for the entire casting of the spell. You finish the casting by touching both the creature and a pile of ice or snow that is the same size as that creature, and the pile turns into the simulacrum, which is a creature. It uses the game statistics of the original creature at the time of casting, except it is a Construct, its Hit Point maximum is half as much, and it can’t cast this spell.

The simulacrum is Friendly to you and creatures you designate. It obeys your commands and acts on your turn in combat. The simulacrum can’t gain levels, and it can’t take Short or Long Rests.

If the simulacrum takes damage, the only way to restore its Hit Points is to repair it as you take a Long Rest, during which you expend components worth 100 GP per Hit Point restored. The simulacrum must stay within 5 feet of you for the repair.

The simulacrum lasts until it drops to 0 Hit Points, at which point it reverts to snow and melts away. If you cast this spell again, any simulacrum you created with this spell is instantly destroyed.

Take a closer look at the last paragraph of Simulacrum. You can only have one of them at a time.

Quote from wagnarokkr >>

Take a closer look at the last paragraph of Simulacrum. You can only have one of them at a time.

 Here is where I see the loophole on this. Hence the debate.

The language of Divine Intervention and Greater Divine Intervention seems to indicate that it is not the cleric that is doing the casting, but the divine being.

Additionally, the simulacrum is the one doing the other Greater Divine Intervention prayer so not even the recharge limitation on the player’s GDI applies because the simulacrum is the one doing it.

I also don’t see that the simulacrum being a construct is a problem because the player character can play as a construct (Warforge) cleric (correct me if I’m wrong).

This might be a debate between RAW and RAI.

Quote from packman767 >>

Quote from wagnarokkr >>

Take a closer look at the last paragraph of Simulacrum. You can only have one of them at a time.

 Here is where I see the loophole on this. Hence the debate.

The language of Divine Intervention and Greater Divine Intervention seems to indicate that it is not the cleric that is doing the casting, but the divine being.

Incorrect

Level 10: Divine Intervention

You can call on your deity or pantheon to intervene on your behalf. As a Magic action, choose any Cleric spell of level 5 or lower that doesn’t require a Reaction to cast. As part of the same action, you cast that spell without expending a spell slot or needing Material components.

Quote from packman767 >>

The language of Divine Intervention and Greater Divine Intervention seems to indicate that it is not the cleric that is doing the casting, but the divine being.

Nope, that is incorrect.

Level 10: Divine Intervention

You can call on your deity or pantheon to intervene on your behalf. As a Magic action, choose any Cleric spell of level 5 or lower that doesn’t require a Reaction to cast. As part of the same action, you cast that spell without expending a spell slot or needing Material components. You can’t use this feature again until you finish a Long Rest.

You definitely count as the caster of the spell.

And the level 20 feature doesn't change that, it just adds Wish to the list of spells you can choose.

Level 10, sure.

The cleric and the simulacrum are not the same though.

This is the issue.  GDI seems to allow the infinite chain loop of 5e, but even better because it also doesn’t consume the 9th level spell slot.

I don’t recall if a simulacrum can take a turn the same round it is created.  If so, this is just a ridiculous chain loop for level 20 clerics.  This is even crazier than the 2014 Druid capstone.

Quote from packman767 >>

I don’t recall if a simulacrum can take a turn the same round it is created.  

You also didn't notice that a simulacrum can't take a Long Rest, and will therefore never have the ability to use Divine Intervention

Quote from AntonSirius >>

Quote from packman767 >>

I don’t recall if a simulacrum can take a turn the same round it is created.  

 

You also didn't notice that a simulacrum can't take a Long Rest, and will therefore never have the ability to use Divine Intervention

You might be right.

“It uses the game statistics of the original creature at the time of casting, except it is a Construct, its Hit Point maximum is half as much, and it can’t cast this spell.”

But the real kicker is that last phrase.

The issue is, the simulacrum in this case would be casting GDI to cast wish, and I think the language of wish might bypass the language in simulacrum because simulacrum is not the actual spell being cast, wish is being cast and the effects of wish are just a clone of simulacrum.

I might be willing to House Rule “hard no” on this just to avoid this debate this weekend while at the table.

Quote from packman767 >>

I might be willing to House Rule “hard no” on this just to avoid this debate this weekend while at the table.

There's no debate. It doesn't work. Full stop

Simulacrums "uses the game statistics of the original creature at the time of casting", which includes class features being used or unused

If the original cleric uses (not "casts". It's a class feature, not a spell) Divine Intervention to wish for a simulacrum, then they can't use Divine Intervention again for 2d4 Long Rests. This would be true of the simulacrum as well

Since simulacrums cannot take Long Rests, they will never regain the ability to use any form of Divine Intervention in order to continue the chain

You don't have to house rule anything

I agree with the answers. RAW, the spell is cast by the Cleric, so you could Counterspell it, for example.

"Level 10: Divine Intervention" or Wish (available with "Greater Divine Intervention") bypass Casting Time and Components, but the spell's effects stay the same, not modified by those features or by Wish, and even you still need to maintain Concentration if a certain spell requires it.

EDIT: (@packman767 as a suggestion, you can use tooltips in your posts: How To Add Tooltips)

There are some threads about Wish or Divine Intervention that could be helpful here:

• is 【that】wish or the spell that wish duplicated?
• 2024 Cleric Level 10 Divine Intervention 
• Wish, concentration, and saves 
• Does Antimagic Field suppress spells cast by Divine Intervention? (or any magic made through Channel Divinity) 
• 2024 Divine Intervention & Counterspell 
• Question about Wish 
• Wish and it's repercussions

Simulacrums can’t cast Simulacrum.

So I disagree with the stance that the Simulacrums will never be able to cast Wish using GDI. The ability to cast it that way again is based on days, not long rests, so it gets around that rule.

However, what it doesn't bypass is that Simulacrums can't cast Simulacrum. And this is where it gets hazy: Does duplicating a spell with Wish count as casting that spell?

I say, RAI, this shouldn't be possible. RAW, it's hazy.

Quote from LinkArcher >>

Simulacrums can’t cast Simulacrum.

 Oh! This post awakened a memory! A similar question was asked in simulacrum wish

Quote from Athanar90 >>

So I disagree with the stance that the Simulacrums will never be able to cast Wish using GDI. The ability to cast it that way again is based on days, not long rests, so it gets around that rule.

It's Long Rests in 5e24, not days

Level 20: Greater Divine Intervention

You can call on even more powerful divine intervention. When you use your Divine Intervention feature, you can choose Wish when you select a spell. If you do so, you can’t use Divine Intervention again until you finish 2d4 Long Rests.

In that case, seems I read it wrong. Sleep has been my enemy the last two days. Unambiguously doesn't work then.

If you have a Level 20 Cleric and a Level 20 wizard they would probably be able pull it off.

Basically the wizard makes a Wish simulacrum of a fully loaded cleric with GDI still available.

Then the cleric makes a simulacrum of the wizard’s simulacrum.  That simulacrum would still have GDI because the first one has it.

Infinite clones.

🧀But again I might house rule this doesn’t work🧀

I would definitely say this doesn’t work. Simulacrums shouldn’t be able to cast wish/ use GDI, and you shouldn’t be able to create a simulacrum of a simulacrum.

Do you guys want to know something hilarious? Simulacrums are Constructs, not Humanoids nor Beasts.

Quote from ClassicCharismaCaster >>

Do you guys want to know something hilarious? Simulacrums are Constructs, not Humanoids nor Beasts.

 I knew. How does that play into this?