If I am building a barb/rogue. Would it be possible to gain both rage damage and sneak attack damage on a hit with RAW? Rage says the attack has to be with strength and sneak attack says it has to be with a finesse weapon. Both of these can be possible, but I want to make sure that if I attack with a rapier and use my STR score I can still apply sneak attack.
Rage: In battle, you fight with primal ferocity. On your turn, you can enter a rage as a bonus action.
While raging, you gain the following benefits if you aren’t wearing heavy armor:
You have advantage on Strength checks and Strength saving throws.
When you make a melee weapon attack using Strength, you gain a bonus to the damage roll that increases as you gain levels as a barbarian, as shown in the Rage Damage column of the Barbarian table.
You have resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage.
If you are able to cast spells, you can’t cast them or concentrate on them while raging.
Your rage lasts for 1 minute. It ends early if you are knocked unconscious or if your turn ends and you haven’t attacked a hostile creature since your last turn or taken damage since then. You can also end your rage on your turn as a bonus action.
Once you have raged the number of times shown for your barbarian level in the Rages column of the Barbarian table, you must finish a long rest before you can rage again.
Sneak Attack: Beginning at 1st level, you know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe’s distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon.
You don’t need advantage on the attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it, that enemy isn’t incapacitated, and you don’t have disadvantage on the attack roll.
The amount of the extra damage increases as you gain levels in this class, as shown in the Sneak Attack column of theRogue table.
The fun starts at barbarian level 2; reckless attack. Instant Sneak Attack damage :P
Reckless Attack
Starting at 2nd level, you can throw aside all concern for defense to attack with fierce desperation. When you make your first attack on your turn, you can decide to attack recklessly. Doing so gives you advantage on melee weapon attack rolls using Strength during this turn, but attack rolls against you have advantage until your next turn.
Sneak Attack
Beginning at 1st level, you know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe’s distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon.
I get where your coming from Gav, but did you consider that the sneak is aiming at the weak point and the reckless part is the singleminded devotion to ending the targets life even if it means being impaled (recklessly) on their blades just so they cant parry. This thematically could work - often if in doubt ask the player how they imagine it could work, if they can come up with some good imagery of how? let them go for it.
Fair enough, DmGorani, thats your choice. Its not for everyone and allowing it requires opening yourself up to possibilities and the more you do that the better the game can get but also the easier it can unravel. Villanthus I would suggest you work on imagining how you will combine the two into a fighting style, how will it work, what type of fighter does it make you. If you do that not only will you develop a personality for your character but you will have a better chance persuading the DM (dont 'roll a 1' on that 'persuade' check)
Fair enough, DmGorani, thats your choice. Its not for everyone and allowing it requires opening yourself up to possibilities and the more you do that the better the game can get but also the easier it can unravel. Villanthus I would suggest you work on imagining how you will combine the two into a fighting style, how will it work, what type of fighter does it make you. If you do that not only will you develop a personality for your character but you will have a better chance persuading the DM (dont 'roll a 1' on that 'persuade' check)
I am the DM. This character is an NPC designed to give the party a hard time. His name is Targor, Death's dealer and he is an unassuming assassin (since he doesn't wear armor). He is also the inquisitive rogue. So he doesn't need to reckless attack. 5 levels Barb totem and 15 rogue inquisitive. He hurts and is a skill junkie.
Ah in that case I suggest you ask the question, would you mind your players using both?
Also why are you using a player character build as an npc? You can do it but the cr on him would be hideous considering the damage per round / hp and ac (I would imagine). Are none of the npc stat blocks appropriate?
This kind of attack should be described to the players when its used, they should have some idea of how dangerous it is even if it misses, and how its coming together. (its pretty particular so they should have some awareness of how non generic it is)
I hope it works out for you and the players enjoy the fight and cutting Targor down.
Ah in that case I suggest you ask the question, would you mind your players using both?
Also why are you using a player character build as an npc? You can do it but the cr on him would be hideous considering the damage per round / hp and ac (I would imagine). Are none of the npc stat blocks appropriate?
This kind of attack should be described to the players when its used, they should have some idea of how dangerous it is even if it misses, and how its coming together. (its pretty particular so they should have some awareness of how non generic it is)
I hope it works out for you and the players enjoy the fight and cutting Targor down.
I will answer in the order of your paragraphs.
1. Yes. Anything I do they can do.
2. I enjoy building characters, and it allows for more specific loot to be found.
3. Thanks for the flavor text idea.
4. They might depending on how soon they encounter him. That depends on their choices. If they encounter him too soon, I have a handicap ready to go.
Well as it goes a 5th level barbarian is only going to be adding +2 rage damage, conversely those extra 5 levels in Rogue would add +2d6 to sneak attack damage, for an average of +7 damage.
The combo isn't going to break anything as it wouldn't be that difficult to gain sneak attack on most rounds (especially for a 20th lvl character).
Well as it goes a 5th level barbarian is only going to be adding +2 rage damage, conversely those extra 5 levels in Rogue would add +2d6 to sneak attack damage, for an average of +7 damage.
The combo isn't going to break anything as it wouldn't be that difficult to gain sneak attack on most rounds (especially for a 20th lvl character).
True, but sneak attack damage isn't the only factor here. Since I can now attack twice, I've upped the damage beyond that additional plus 2d6. Along with the danger sense/evasion combination and resistant to all except psychic and the uncanny dodge feature, which can halve it further once per round. On top of that his AC is borderline absurd.
I would love to play a "Berserker Assassin" like this! They are stealthy as all heck, but when the time comes, they strike relentlessly for the weak spots, ignoring all else until the foes are vanquished :)
I would love to play a "Berserker Assassin" like this! They are stealthy as all heck, but when the time comes, they strike relentlessly for the weak spots, ignoring all else until the foes are vanquished :)
Indeed. As a roleplay factor it is more of a bloodlust, than a mindless rage.
As a DM, I would consider this an exploit of a game mechanic that combines two contradicting types of attacks and would not allow it.
Since you are the DM you are able to make that decision. But to call it an exploit? This isn't a video game... There is a reason Sneak attack applies on Finesse Weapons and not forcing the player to only use Dex.
The main thing I see about people who don't "like" the combo is from assuming two things.
1.) That sneak attack is only a pinpoint precise attack on a weak spot. When its basically just attacking someone who is unprepared for the attack.
2.) That reckless attack is a yelling spittle flying attack. When its basically just attacking in a way that leaves you vulnerable to other attacks.
Basically your one on one and you recklessly leave your entire side unguarded to make an amazing strike against your opponent.
A DM can rule as they want for house rules, but the Reckless Attack + Sneak Attack is legitimate. The issue is not with the mechanic but with the concept of a "Sneak Attack". It is no longer what it used to be in previous editions. There is no similarity except in name only. The 5e version is simply a more precise attack and "Reckless Attack" is not a wild swing, it is a disregard for one's own safety. The two are not in opposition.
If I am building a barb/rogue. Would it be possible to gain both rage damage and sneak attack damage on a hit with RAW? Rage says the attack has to be with strength and sneak attack says it has to be with a finesse weapon. Both of these can be possible, but I want to make sure that if I attack with a rapier and use my STR score I can still apply sneak attack.
Rage:
In battle, you fight with primal ferocity. On your turn, you can enter a rage as a bonus action.
While raging, you gain the following benefits if you aren’t wearing heavy armor:
If you are able to cast spells, you can’t cast them or concentrate on them while raging.
Your rage lasts for 1 minute. It ends early if you are knocked unconscious or if your turn ends and you haven’t attacked a hostile creature since your last turn or taken damage since then. You can also end your rage on your turn as a bonus action.
Once you have raged the number of times shown for your barbarian level in the Rages column of the Barbarian table, you must finish a long rest before you can rage again.
Sneak Attack:
Beginning at 1st level, you know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe’s distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon.
You don’t need advantage on the attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it, that enemy isn’t incapacitated, and you don’t have disadvantage on the attack roll.
The amount of the extra damage increases as you gain levels in this class, as shown in the Sneak Attack column of theRogue table.
Yes, it works by RAW, but be aware that some DM's consider it to be cheesy and abusing a rule combination to make an overpowered character.
It would be a good idea to check with your DM that they're ok with this combination before planning your character in too much detail!
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Oh, I'm the DM. It's an npc the character's will encounter. I just wanted to be sure it worked rules wise. lol XD
The fun starts at barbarian level 2; reckless attack. Instant Sneak Attack damage :P
Reckless Attack
Starting at 2nd level, you can throw aside all concern for defense to attack with fierce desperation. When you make your first attack on your turn, you can decide to attack recklessly. Doing so gives you advantage on melee weapon attack rolls using Strength during this turn, but attack rolls against you have advantage until your next turn.
Sneak Attack
Beginning at 1st level, you know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe’s distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon.
Subclass: Dwarven Defender - Dragonborn Paragon
Feats: Artificer Apprentice
Monsters: Sheep - Spellbreaker Warforged Titan
Magic Items: Whipier - Ring of Secret Storage - Collar of the Guardian
Monster template: Skeletal Creature
I guess that works RAW, but I wouldn't allow a reckless sneak attack. "You recklessly carefully slip your blade between your opponent's ribs"
I know, and I rule it that way too at my table. But it still is legal in Adventurer's League if you would choose to use it :p
Subclass: Dwarven Defender - Dragonborn Paragon
Feats: Artificer Apprentice
Monsters: Sheep - Spellbreaker Warforged Titan
Magic Items: Whipier - Ring of Secret Storage - Collar of the Guardian
Monster template: Skeletal Creature
You recklessly attack someone who isn't paying attention.
I get where your coming from Gav, but did you consider that the sneak is aiming at the weak point and the reckless part is the singleminded devotion to ending the targets life even if it means being impaled (recklessly) on their blades just so they cant parry. This thematically could work - often if in doubt ask the player how they imagine it could work, if they can come up with some good imagery of how? let them go for it.
As a DM, I would consider this an exploit of a game mechanic that combines two contradicting types of attacks and would not allow it.
Fair enough, DmGorani, thats your choice. Its not for everyone and allowing it requires opening yourself up to possibilities and the more you do that the better the game can get but also the easier it can unravel. Villanthus I would suggest you work on imagining how you will combine the two into a fighting style, how will it work, what type of fighter does it make you. If you do that not only will you develop a personality for your character but you will have a better chance persuading the DM (dont 'roll a 1' on that 'persuade' check)
I am the DM. This character is an NPC designed to give the party a hard time. His name is Targor, Death's dealer and he is an unassuming assassin (since he doesn't wear armor). He is also the inquisitive rogue. So he doesn't need to reckless attack. 5 levels Barb totem and 15 rogue inquisitive. He hurts and is a skill junkie.
Ah in that case I suggest you ask the question, would you mind your players using both?
Also why are you using a player character build as an npc? You can do it but the cr on him would be hideous considering the damage per round / hp and ac (I would imagine). Are none of the npc stat blocks appropriate?
This kind of attack should be described to the players when its used, they should have some idea of how dangerous it is even if it misses, and how its coming together. (its pretty particular so they should have some awareness of how non generic it is)
I hope it works out for you and the players enjoy the fight and cutting Targor down.
I will answer in the order of your paragraphs.
1. Yes. Anything I do they can do.
2. I enjoy building characters, and it allows for more specific loot to be found.
3. Thanks for the flavor text idea.
4. They might depending on how soon they encounter him. That depends on their choices. If they encounter him too soon, I have a handicap ready to go.
Well as it goes a 5th level barbarian is only going to be adding +2 rage damage, conversely those extra 5 levels in Rogue would add +2d6 to sneak attack damage, for an average of +7 damage.
The combo isn't going to break anything as it wouldn't be that difficult to gain sneak attack on most rounds (especially for a 20th lvl character).
- Loswaith
True, but sneak attack damage isn't the only factor here. Since I can now attack twice, I've upped the damage beyond that additional plus 2d6. Along with the danger sense/evasion combination and resistant to all except psychic and the uncanny dodge feature, which can halve it further once per round. On top of that his AC is borderline absurd.
I would love to play a "Berserker Assassin" like this! They are stealthy as all heck, but when the time comes, they strike relentlessly for the weak spots, ignoring all else until the foes are vanquished :)
Indeed. As a roleplay factor it is more of a bloodlust, than a mindless rage.
Since you are the DM you are able to make that decision. But to call it an exploit? This isn't a video game... There is a reason Sneak attack applies on Finesse Weapons and not forcing the player to only use Dex.
The main thing I see about people who don't "like" the combo is from assuming two things.
1.) That sneak attack is only a pinpoint precise attack on a weak spot. When its basically just attacking someone who is unprepared for the attack.
2.) That reckless attack is a yelling spittle flying attack. When its basically just attacking in a way that leaves you vulnerable to other attacks.
Basically your one on one and you recklessly leave your entire side unguarded to make an amazing strike against your opponent.
A DM can rule as they want for house rules, but the Reckless Attack + Sneak Attack is legitimate. The issue is not with the mechanic but with the concept of a "Sneak Attack". It is no longer what it used to be in previous editions. There is no similarity except in name only. The 5e version is simply a more precise attack and "Reckless Attack" is not a wild swing, it is a disregard for one's own safety. The two are not in opposition.
All reckless attack is, is an attack where you forego defenses, in attempt to be more offensive
It isn't flailing attack
It isn't raging attack
It's reckless