Probably start Rogue for the skills and better Save. Take it to level 4 for the ASI and then go Bard. If I may make a suggestion, have you considered dipping one level of Hexblade? It will let you melee attack with Charisma, give you access to medium armor, shields, the Shield spell, a sword cantrip like Booming Blade, and even Eldritch Blast. It's a lot of things for just one level.
It doesn't fit for my backstory to dip into hexblade or to do rogue first
Ahh, it was the same for me. I started Bard as well. What are your priorities for the build? Are you looking for mechanical strength? Because we can help you with that. If you're looking for story congruence I'm afraid we can't help you with that since we don't know your back story.
Mechanically when multiclassing you usually want to take things in 4 level chunks because delaying your skill increases can feel a little bad. Is your DM allowing the Steady Aim feature from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything? Because that feature does make Extra Attack just a bit less shiny in comparison.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
That's a good point. I think I will do 5/15 instead, because he is allowing it. I'm dual wielding shortswords, filling a melee damage role, and I want to be pretty effective.
I'm making a swords bard 6/swashbuckler rogue 14, but we are starting at level 5. What levels should I take and when?
Depends what you want to focus on. I would probably start out as bard-1/rogue-4 (picking my level 1 class as rogue, because one extra skill proficiency if you do it in that order) because it gets the feel of 'mostly rogue with a hint of magic' that seems to be your goal, and because an ASI is a big deal.
A melee cantrip would go a long way for you, and keeps you inline with Extra Attackers. Consider taking the Magic Initiate feat sooner rather than later. Booming Blade in particular is really good with swashbucklers as you can hit them and then run away. If they follow you, they take extra damage. Thunder damage also lends itself pretty well to bard-related reinterpretations if you like to reflavor.
A melee cantrip would go a long way for you, and keeps you inline with Extra Attackers.
Sword bard gets extra attack at 6.
Yeah, but as someone who plays a Swords/Swashbuckler/Hexblade that scaling cantrip and all the extra Sneak Attack dice are kind of juicier than the extra attack.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
A melee cantrip would go a long way for you, and keeps you inline with Extra Attackers.
Sword bard gets extra attack at 6.
Yeah, but as someone who plays a Swords/Swashbuckler/Hexblade that scaling cantrip and all the extra Sneak Attack dice are kind of juicier than the extra attack.
Booming Blade is nice but with a dual wield build (they said two shortswords) that cantrip takes away that BA attack. At Bard 6, the three attacks (2 action, 1 BA, with more opportunities to get the sneak attack damage) would be better than 1 BB attack that might not trigger the secondary damage, I would think.
It doesn't fit for my backstory to dip into hexblade or to do rogue first
If you are starting at 5th level does it really matter that much if you started Rogue? If, to you, it does matter then definitely start Bard. I would probably go 4 Bard/1 Rogue to start so you have your fighting style and flourishes, and ASI. Then build that sneak attack with more Rogue after 5th level.
It doesn't fit for my backstory to dip into hexblade or to do rogue first
If you are starting at 5th level does it really matter that much if you started Rogue? If, to you, it does matter then definitely start Bard. I would probably go 4 Bard/1 Rogue to start so you have your fighting style and flourishes, and ASI. Then build that sneak attack with more Rogue after 5th level.
This.
There's no need for your back story to claim, began as R1, then acquired B1-4 in order... Back story can talk about your Rogue and Bard skills being developed concurrently.
That said, I sometimes will do 1 on 1s and smaller one shots where we play out "back stories" of characters who arrived to the campaign already leveled up. It's fun sometimes events happen in these "prequel" adventures that then get addressed in the mainline campaign. It requires a DM who is very flexible as to where the campaign goes, but can be fun. Also requires a player to not be overly married to an insistent backstory and be open to learning things about the character through "retro play".
I am playing a Swords Bard/Scout Rogue and went from B5R3 to B6R3 because party deliberation thought the 2nd Attack would be more valuable than the ASI (no feats allowed, and he was already at 18 DEX, could've boosted the Charisma, but the character is more one who talks his way through a fight, while fighting, than one who talks his way out of fights).
Hmm... starting at Lv.5, you'll be able to get one archetype, but not both. So, first thing to do is decide which of these packages sounds more interesting to you, since you can only start with one:
Swords: Medium armour, scimitars, can use weapons as casting foci. TWF style (consistent but small damage increase). Limited-use movement/damage/defense option. Lv.2 spells.
Swash: Safer movement (can hit an enemy to turn off its opportunity attacks), increased consistency for sneak attack. Extra sneak attack die (inconsistent but potentially stronger damage increase).
Note that TWF and an extra sneak attack die will both increase your damage by roughly the same amount (TWF is slightly weaker if you take a feat at Lv.4, or slightly stronger if you take an ASI).
Second, after making that decision, I would recommend putting at least four levels in the associated class (Bard or Rogue, respectively). This isn't strictly necessary, per se, but the game is balanced around the assumption that you'll have at least one ASI or feat by the time you reach Lv.5.
If you have four levels in Bard so far, then you have to choose between getting your sneak attack on, and being able to use your flourishes & inspiration more frequently. This is a tough choice, and both options are strong. Bard 4/Rogue 1 will essentially give you an Extra Attack equivalent earlier than you're supposed to get it, putting your damage potential in a good place for the next few levels; with good rolls, you'd be comparable to a Fighter, if less consistent than one. And Bard 5 will refresh your inspiration dice on a short rest, letting you use your flourish _much_ more consistently, while also giving access to Lv.3 spells. [This isn't to say that Rogue is a slouch, for sure; Rogue 4/Bard 1 feels like the weakest option, IMO, but Rogue 5 can output a strong burst and has nice defensive options.]
Personally, I would probably start with Bard 5 and then grab either Rogue 1 or Bard 6, but this is personal preference. You have a good number of nice options available to you here.
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I'm making a swords bard 6/swashbuckler rogue 14, but we are starting at level 5. What levels should I take and when?
Probably start Rogue for the skills and better Save. Take it to level 4 for the ASI and then go Bard. If I may make a suggestion, have you considered dipping one level of Hexblade? It will let you melee attack with Charisma, give you access to medium armor, shields, the Shield spell, a sword cantrip like Booming Blade, and even Eldritch Blast. It's a lot of things for just one level.
That's what I'm currently playing and I like it a lot: https://ddb.ac/characters/2725951/nMe0ZO
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
It doesn't fit for my backstory to dip into hexblade or to do rogue first
Ahh, it was the same for me. I started Bard as well. What are your priorities for the build? Are you looking for mechanical strength? Because we can help you with that. If you're looking for story congruence I'm afraid we can't help you with that since we don't know your back story.
Mechanically when multiclassing you usually want to take things in 4 level chunks because delaying your skill increases can feel a little bad. Is your DM allowing the Steady Aim feature from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything? Because that feature does make Extra Attack just a bit less shiny in comparison.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
That's a good point. I think I will do 5/15 instead, because he is allowing it. I'm dual wielding shortswords, filling a melee damage role, and I want to be pretty effective.
Depends what you want to focus on. I would probably start out as bard-1/rogue-4 (picking my level 1 class as rogue, because one extra skill proficiency if you do it in that order) because it gets the feel of 'mostly rogue with a hint of magic' that seems to be your goal, and because an ASI is a big deal.
A melee cantrip would go a long way for you, and keeps you inline with Extra Attackers. Consider taking the Magic Initiate feat sooner rather than later. Booming Blade in particular is really good with swashbucklers as you can hit them and then run away. If they follow you, they take extra damage. Thunder damage also lends itself pretty well to bard-related reinterpretations if you like to reflavor.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Sword bard gets extra attack at 6.
Yeah, but as someone who plays a Swords/Swashbuckler/Hexblade that scaling cantrip and all the extra Sneak Attack dice are kind of juicier than the extra attack.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Booming Blade is nice but with a dual wield build (they said two shortswords) that cantrip takes away that BA attack. At Bard 6, the three attacks (2 action, 1 BA, with more opportunities to get the sneak attack damage) would be better than 1 BB attack that might not trigger the secondary damage, I would think.
If you are starting at 5th level does it really matter that much if you started Rogue? If, to you, it does matter then definitely start Bard. I would probably go 4 Bard/1 Rogue to start so you have your fighting style and flourishes, and ASI. Then build that sneak attack with more Rogue after 5th level.
This.
There's no need for your back story to claim, began as R1, then acquired B1-4 in order... Back story can talk about your Rogue and Bard skills being developed concurrently.
That said, I sometimes will do 1 on 1s and smaller one shots where we play out "back stories" of characters who arrived to the campaign already leveled up. It's fun sometimes events happen in these "prequel" adventures that then get addressed in the mainline campaign. It requires a DM who is very flexible as to where the campaign goes, but can be fun. Also requires a player to not be overly married to an insistent backstory and be open to learning things about the character through "retro play".
I am playing a Swords Bard/Scout Rogue and went from B5R3 to B6R3 because party deliberation thought the 2nd Attack would be more valuable than the ASI (no feats allowed, and he was already at 18 DEX, could've boosted the Charisma, but the character is more one who talks his way through a fight, while fighting, than one who talks his way out of fights).
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Good point.
Hmm... starting at Lv.5, you'll be able to get one archetype, but not both. So, first thing to do is decide which of these packages sounds more interesting to you, since you can only start with one:
Note that TWF and an extra sneak attack die will both increase your damage by roughly the same amount (TWF is slightly weaker if you take a feat at Lv.4, or slightly stronger if you take an ASI).
Second, after making that decision, I would recommend putting at least four levels in the associated class (Bard or Rogue, respectively). This isn't strictly necessary, per se, but the game is balanced around the assumption that you'll have at least one ASI or feat by the time you reach Lv.5.
If you have four levels in Bard so far, then you have to choose between getting your sneak attack on, and being able to use your flourishes & inspiration more frequently. This is a tough choice, and both options are strong. Bard 4/Rogue 1 will essentially give you an Extra Attack equivalent earlier than you're supposed to get it, putting your damage potential in a good place for the next few levels; with good rolls, you'd be comparable to a Fighter, if less consistent than one. And Bard 5 will refresh your inspiration dice on a short rest, letting you use your flourish _much_ more consistently, while also giving access to Lv.3 spells. [This isn't to say that Rogue is a slouch, for sure; Rogue 4/Bard 1 feels like the weakest option, IMO, but Rogue 5 can output a strong burst and has nice defensive options.]
Personally, I would probably start with Bard 5 and then grab either Rogue 1 or Bard 6, but this is personal preference. You have a good number of nice options available to you here.