I play a Circle of the Shepard druid 9, and I frequently cast conjure animals or conjure woodland beings. My party has begun to complain about how my beasts/ pixies take up way too much time at the table, but I'm not sure how to speed up play. Does anyone (possibly DMs) have ideas on how to move my beasts turns along?
It comes from preparation. You'll need to know what you plan to have the beasts attempt prior to their turn rolling around. If you understand the game mechanics and your dice pools, you should be able to attempt an action and roll damage, if needed, quickly. If you are instead contemplating on the conjuration's actions each turn, I can understand how a party would grow impatient. Try to foresee the events unfolding and prepare your turns before they come into play.
If you are already doing this, please elaborate more on the scenario which is causing delay.
One of my biggest problems is that managing 8 spellcasting Pixies, while extremely powerful, can take a while. do you have any advice on how to run them faster? I've contemplated leasing the control of a Pixie or 2 to other players, but my non-caster party tends to take even longer than I do at playing the Pixies.
Also, my dice rolls for to-hit can take awhile, with 16 rolls due to flanking advantage.
One of my biggest problems is that managing 8 spellcasting Pixies, while extremely powerful, can take a while. do you have any advice on how to run them faster? I've contemplated leasing the control of a Pixie or 2 to other players, but my non-caster party tends to take even longer than I do at playing the Pixies.
Also, my dice rolls for to-hit can take awhile, with 16 rolls due to flanking advantage.
There's a couple of issues here. In order of importance:
2. You and the DM should agree skip the attack and damage rolls for your minions. DMG Chapter 8: Running The Game, section Handling Mobs has a table for figuring out how many monsters you need to score 1 hit at different AC ranges.
3. The DM should consider not using the flanking rules. They complicate combat and result in everyone moving around to get flanking bonuses or get out of being flanked.
I think Pixies are nice for out of combat scenarios. For in combat, I like sprites. They're much easier to run. Just specify your targets, roll the d20s for each. Each hit is 1 dmg and a con save. Fail is poisoned. Fail by 5 or more is unconscious
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2. You and the DM should agree skip the attack and damage rolls for your minions. DMG Chapter 8: Running The Game, section Handling Mobs has a table for figuring out how many monsters you need to score 1 hit at different AC ranges.
3. The DM should consider not using the flanking rules. They complicate combat and result in everyone moving around to get flanking bonuses or get out of being flanked.
1. Will talk to my DM about this.
2. Thanks! I checked this out, and it is really helpful to getting the game rolling along smoothly
3. That would make a lot of sense.
Thank you so much for this post, it took a while to get used to the mob combat aspect but it works really well.
Good advice above (especially that the DM should never allow you to conjure 8 pixies!).
Here is my own cheatsheet for my favorite Conjured Animals (written as Size Name: AC HP To-hit Damage), in order of preference:
Med Snake: 14 11 +6 12
Med Wolf: 13 11 +4pactics 7+Str11 or prone
Lg Bat: 13 22 +4 5 or grapple+2, Fly 60'
Lg Owl:12 19 +3 8 or grapple+1, Flyby 60'
Lg Elk: 10 13 +5 8 or Ram13+Str13 or prone
Lg Horse: 10 19 +6 9
Lg Snake: 12 13 +4 6+restrained14
Notes on making them speedier:
Med Snakes: the bite of a giant poisonous snake does a total of 11 damage on a successful save or 16 on a failure, but the DC is pretty low. Opponents would likely succeed over half the time anyway, so average damage would probably be about 13 points, but (for speed and to avoid debate) I just calculated that opponents saved 80% of the time and put the average at 12 points (half the damage is poison).
Med Wolves: I assume they all have advantage due to pactics (and readying an action if needed), so I roll a handful of 8 white dice (before my turn comes up), then quickly roll a single (advantage) die next to each one. I then total up the damage and roll another die next to each hit (against any enemies that are still alive) to represent the strength roll to avoid going prone.
Lg Bat's don't do much damage, but they can grapple other creatures and fly upwards. On average half of them will succeed in the grapple, so (for speed) maybe ask your DM if you could simply remove 4 opponents from the battlemat and put them next to four (of your eight) Bat tokens (to represent being in the air). Outdoors they gain 30' altitude (10 dmg fall) on the first round, then 60' (+20 dmg) each round thereafter (max 70 dmg at round 4). Use dice next to the tokens to track altitude if needed.
Lg Owls: same as Bats above (but they don't have to worry about Opportunity Attacks)
6 & 7 I avoid using large (non-flying) creatures because they congest the battlefield (and thus annoy my fellow players), but they can still be handy depending on the circumstances.
I have to disagree with anyone who has said the DM should never allow you to conjure 8 pixies. It's part of the spell and part of the class. That said, the DM should NOT allow you to get 8 pixies EVERY time (as per the summoning rules, you choose the CR/quantity, and the DM chooses the creatures summoned).
For example, if I'm deep in a dark dungeon and conjure animals, my DM plays towards the environment and will likely summon spiders, or maybe bats etc. If I did a conjure woodland beings, hard to say what I would get...but the DM "guides" it by environment etc.
That said, we "summarise" combat for my summons...if I get 8 swarms of bats for example, the DM and myself don't even roll for/against...we just assume some bat swarms get damaged (and the numbers whittle away), they do some damage etc. There are cases where the "summons" and an enemy are just both left to the side - almost "removed" from combat (i.e. they are fighting amongst themselves) and used kinda like a hold person spell in equivelent. Does that make sense?
For example...let's say we are ambushed by archers in a mountain pass...some enemies run out with swords etc, and some are shooting at us with arrows from afar. I might try summon swarms of bats or swarms of ravens to attack the arrow shooters as we can't get to them easily (but the DM decides what really appears - sometime he totally screws with my plans...sometimes I get what I want! But he always makes it fun...and he can also control the flow of the game better this way). If I DID get my swarms or flying creatures, I would have them go attack the archers and THEIR little combat would play off to the side...but with almost no dice rolling...just the DM telling the story about what transpires.
If I summon a larger/single creature, it takes it's turn more like a PC on it's on iniative.
Don’t summon 8 creatures then. You don’t have to summon 8 things. It’s in the spell.
Seriously. If your party hates you and that matters to you don’t summon 8 creatures with the expectation that you will run through full combat turns for them. Only summon 8 things if you’ve pre-arranged some other use for them with the DM. For instance just tell the DM they’re all using the help action to give your allies advantage on attack rolls and let the combat run normally. The monsters might attack your beasts to eliminate the advantage on them but that just means they eat damage meant for you.
Maybe if you summon fewer things with more HP then your DM will oblige you by hitting your creatures instead of hitting your allies, so you’ve absorbed damage meant for your allies.
1) Summon fewer numbers of higher CR creatures unless you really, really need large numbers of low CR creatures in your specific situation.
2) Have the stats of your summoned creatures readily at hand (I use a spreadsheet).
3) Think about what you (and you creatures) are going to do on your turn, before it's your turn, so you don't waste any time when it finally is your turn.
4) All your summoned creatures attacking a single target can roll their attack simultaneously. My necromancer has about a dozen skeleton archers following him around. In combat, they focus fire single targets, and I roll 12 d20s at once, count up the number of hits, then roll the necessary number of damage dice. So you have one (group) roll for hits, and one subsequent roll for damage, just as quick as you would if you alone were attacking.
Do you know a good way to group multiple attack rolls into a single macro in Roll20?
I actually recently did this for the first time with my Druid. I summoned 8 Giant Owls. (They were actually 8 Archaeopteryx, but I used the Giant Owl stat block).
This makes them VERY easy to use, because they all have Flyby attack and 60' of Fly. So they hover 30' it in the air, dive bombed a target, and flew 30' back into the air.
The GM just kept track of them kinda as a "swarm" because honestly when they are 30' in the air and have that much speed, the specifics aren't usually important.
I roll 12 d20s at once, count up the number of hits, then roll the necessary number of damage dice.
I'm kinda shocked that you don't use average damage: it's right there in the skeleton's stats (and thus part of the standard rules).
This might sound odd to some, but DM's (and players) that run hordes of creatures without using average damage actually bothers me (as it seems inconsiderate of my table time)
+1 on that. I even use average damage on my single conjured creatures as well....I try to keep them as "background" noise really....much for the OP's original reason for asking...don't want a horde of conjure's to take over the game. I find even rolling for a single "extra" creature kinda distracts.
For example...let's say I have 4 wolves remaining from a pack attacking.....as the other players are taking their turn, I'll roll 4 "to hit" rolls before the wolves turn, and when the wolves are up, I'll usually just say "3 hits...24 damage total" or something to the sort...the DM can do with it as he likes....divide it between multiple enemies, apply it to one creature etc. etc.
I like the unpredictability of rolling damage dice and I can roll 8d6 (for 8 hits, for example) as quickly as I can roll 1d6. I'm very fast at adding them up as well, certainly no slower than a wizard adding up his 8d6 for a fireball.
I'll bring it up with the GM about how he wants to handle it in the future. It was the first time casting the spell. Also it wasn't all the cumbersome, because it's Roll20. I just edited one of my weapons to be "Giant Owl: Talons" gave it the appropriate stat, and hit the roll button 8 times... it goes easier as they died.
Playing a Moon Druid this is the 2nd time in the campaign I've cast a single spell that wasn't Goodberry or Create Water.
I'm constantly editing my weapons to be different beasts that I Wildshape into. Side note: Being a Moon Druid did create a funny discussion in our game IF a male druid can Wildshape into a Female Steeder or not.
certainly no slower than a wizard adding up his 8d6 for a fireball.
To be fair: I don't know the last time I saw that occur either (it would've been early in 3e for my groups). I mean: I overheard it being done at other tables at conventions (but the result were always very close to 28).
3. The DM should consider not using the flanking rules. They complicate combat and result in everyone moving around to get flanking bonuses or get out of being flanked.
Um, isn't that what they're for?
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I always use the wet erase marker on my area of the battle map... and number the creatures (depending on what was summoned).
Then I pre-roll the attacks, and we always use monsters average damage.. so that makes the bookkeeping rather easy. This way, all you have to do is give the damage to the DM and then move the creatures if one of the bad guys die....and keep giving the numbers to the DM.
In the case of Pixies... I just go down the list of numbers and have the DM make saves, then I mark off what spells they use. (I mean, come on... the DC is 11, and alot of creatures have magic resistance...sooo... Also, the DM can always 'choose' to roll with advantage on saves, if he thinks the Pixies are too O.P.)
I have found this to be the easiest, and fastest way to play a summoner. Even with a Necromancer, you have have your guys pre-roll attacks, and when its your turn, just throw the numbers at the DM. If a bad guy dies... move your creature to the next target. Simple.
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I play a Circle of the Shepard druid 9, and I frequently cast conjure animals or conjure woodland beings. My party has begun to complain about how my beasts/ pixies take up way too much time at the table, but I'm not sure how to speed up play. Does anyone (possibly DMs) have ideas on how to move my beasts turns along?
It comes from preparation. You'll need to know what you plan to have the beasts attempt prior to their turn rolling around. If you understand the game mechanics and your dice pools, you should be able to attempt an action and roll damage, if needed, quickly. If you are instead contemplating on the conjuration's actions each turn, I can understand how a party would grow impatient. Try to foresee the events unfolding and prepare your turns before they come into play.
If you are already doing this, please elaborate more on the scenario which is causing delay.
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One of my biggest problems is that managing 8 spellcasting Pixies, while extremely powerful, can take a while. do you have any advice on how to run them faster? I've contemplated leasing the control of a Pixie or 2 to other players, but my non-caster party tends to take even longer than I do at playing the Pixies.
Also, my dice rolls for to-hit can take awhile, with 16 rolls due to flanking advantage.
I think Pixies are nice for out of combat scenarios. For in combat, I like sprites. They're much easier to run. Just specify your targets, roll the d20s for each. Each hit is 1 dmg and a con save. Fail is poisoned. Fail by 5 or more is unconscious
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Good advice above (especially that the DM should never allow you to conjure 8 pixies!).
Here is my own cheatsheet for my favorite Conjured Animals (written as Size Name: AC HP To-hit Damage), in order of preference:
Notes on making them speedier:
I have to disagree with anyone who has said the DM should never allow you to conjure 8 pixies. It's part of the spell and part of the class. That said, the DM should NOT allow you to get 8 pixies EVERY time (as per the summoning rules, you choose the CR/quantity, and the DM chooses the creatures summoned).
For example, if I'm deep in a dark dungeon and conjure animals, my DM plays towards the environment and will likely summon spiders, or maybe bats etc. If I did a conjure woodland beings, hard to say what I would get...but the DM "guides" it by environment etc.
That said, we "summarise" combat for my summons...if I get 8 swarms of bats for example, the DM and myself don't even roll for/against...we just assume some bat swarms get damaged (and the numbers whittle away), they do some damage etc. There are cases where the "summons" and an enemy are just both left to the side - almost "removed" from combat (i.e. they are fighting amongst themselves) and used kinda like a hold person spell in equivelent. Does that make sense?
For example...let's say we are ambushed by archers in a mountain pass...some enemies run out with swords etc, and some are shooting at us with arrows from afar. I might try summon swarms of bats or swarms of ravens to attack the arrow shooters as we can't get to them easily (but the DM decides what really appears - sometime he totally screws with my plans...sometimes I get what I want! But he always makes it fun...and he can also control the flow of the game better this way). If I DID get my swarms or flying creatures, I would have them go attack the archers and THEIR little combat would play off to the side...but with almost no dice rolling...just the DM telling the story about what transpires.
If I summon a larger/single creature, it takes it's turn more like a PC on it's on iniative.
Don’t summon 8 creatures then. You don’t have to summon 8 things. It’s in the spell.
Seriously. If your party hates you and that matters to you don’t summon 8 creatures with the expectation that you will run through full combat turns for them. Only summon 8 things if you’ve pre-arranged some other use for them with the DM. For instance just tell the DM they’re all using the help action to give your allies advantage on attack rolls and let the combat run normally. The monsters might attack your beasts to eliminate the advantage on them but that just means they eat damage meant for you.
Maybe if you summon fewer things with more HP then your DM will oblige you by hitting your creatures instead of hitting your allies, so you’ve absorbed damage meant for your allies.
1) Summon fewer numbers of higher CR creatures unless you really, really need large numbers of low CR creatures in your specific situation.
2) Have the stats of your summoned creatures readily at hand (I use a spreadsheet).
3) Think about what you (and you creatures) are going to do on your turn, before it's your turn, so you don't waste any time when it finally is your turn.
4) All your summoned creatures attacking a single target can roll their attack simultaneously. My necromancer has about a dozen skeleton archers following him around. In combat, they focus fire single targets, and I roll 12 d20s at once, count up the number of hits, then roll the necessary number of damage dice. So you have one (group) roll for hits, and one subsequent roll for damage, just as quick as you would if you alone were attacking.
Strangways,
Do you know a good way to group multiple attack rolls into a single macro in Roll20?
I actually recently did this for the first time with my Druid. I summoned 8 Giant Owls. (They were actually 8 Archaeopteryx, but I used the Giant Owl stat block).
This makes them VERY easy to use, because they all have Flyby attack and 60' of Fly. So they hover 30' it in the air, dive bombed a target, and flew 30' back into the air.
The GM just kept track of them kinda as a "swarm" because honestly when they are 30' in the air and have that much speed, the specifics aren't usually important.
DMG p.250 ("Handling Mobs") has a method (essentially using average number of hits) but in practice might take you more effort than it will save.
+1 on that. I even use average damage on my single conjured creatures as well....I try to keep them as "background" noise really....much for the OP's original reason for asking...don't want a horde of conjure's to take over the game. I find even rolling for a single "extra" creature kinda distracts.
For example...let's say I have 4 wolves remaining from a pack attacking.....as the other players are taking their turn, I'll roll 4 "to hit" rolls before the wolves turn, and when the wolves are up, I'll usually just say "3 hits...24 damage total" or something to the sort...the DM can do with it as he likes....divide it between multiple enemies, apply it to one creature etc. etc.
I like the unpredictability of rolling damage dice and I can roll 8d6 (for 8 hits, for example) as quickly as I can roll 1d6. I'm very fast at adding them up as well, certainly no slower than a wizard adding up his 8d6 for a fireball.
I'll bring it up with the GM about how he wants to handle it in the future. It was the first time casting the spell. Also it wasn't all the cumbersome, because it's Roll20. I just edited one of my weapons to be "Giant Owl: Talons" gave it the appropriate stat, and hit the roll button 8 times... it goes easier as they died.
Playing a Moon Druid this is the 2nd time in the campaign I've cast a single spell that wasn't Goodberry or Create Water.
I'm constantly editing my weapons to be different beasts that I Wildshape into.
Side note: Being a Moon Druid did create a funny discussion in our game IF a male druid can Wildshape into a Female Steeder or not.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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Depending on how cool your DM is...
I always use the wet erase marker on my area of the battle map... and number the creatures (depending on what was summoned).
Then I pre-roll the attacks, and we always use monsters average damage.. so that makes the bookkeeping rather easy. This way, all you have to do is give the damage to the DM and then move the creatures if one of the bad guys die....and keep giving the numbers to the DM.
In the case of Pixies... I just go down the list of numbers and have the DM make saves, then I mark off what spells they use. (I mean, come on... the DC is 11, and alot of creatures have magic resistance...sooo... Also, the DM can always 'choose' to roll with advantage on saves, if he thinks the Pixies are too O.P.)
I have found this to be the easiest, and fastest way to play a summoner. Even with a Necromancer, you have have your guys pre-roll attacks, and when its your turn, just throw the numbers at the DM. If a bad guy dies... move your creature to the next target. Simple.