If a Druid uses wild shape (lets say into a squirrel for example) can the druid in the shape of a squirrel talk to other squirrels without using the "Speak with Animals" spell? As in a full conversation. I've looked it up but its all "Can my Druid talk to my party when i'm a giant spider" or "is it wrong that I wrote a message to someone while in wild shape" I'm stating this now so no one just puts the description of Wild shape it under here. No I don't mean to the party I mean the animal.(Also if you could list some animals that have mimicry. not just birds I mean any creatures. I'm a Circle of the Moon Druid so I don't have much restrictions besides the basic restrictions of No swim/Fly until this level.)
You're right in that I don't see any rules on this.
In 5th edition, the rules are pretty specific - if they don't talk about a thing being possible, then it isn't - the rules avoid situations where we're supposed to infer a rule based on other rules.
The Speak with Animals spell is magic - it enables the caster and the animal to converse.
The wildshape ability mentions nothing about allowing the ability to converse with creatures.
That said - if a group want to use a house rule that it's possible, then that's totally ok to do that. :)
When wild shaped, you don't lose the ability to communicate. It's just that you can physically only vocalize a specific way now. So, I can guess that:
Your languages don't change, so you can understand the party, but they can't understand you unless they have the ability to understand beasts. You can get around this by playing as a Ghostwise Halfling and telepathically communicating with a party member.
Other animals of the same type understand you, but you can't understand them. Rather than wild shaping, Speak with Animals seems like a better way to do it.
I think the real question should be can a squirrel carry out a full conversation anyway. If they can't do it normally you don't gain the ability to give them Squirrelspeak
A lot of animal communication comes from body language. Take for example, cats. Cats generally only meow for dealing with kittens, or humans (which shows what they think of human intelligence, I suppose). The majority of cat-other animal communication is body language. You can't exactly communicate about hidden thief guild locations that way, can you?
I can see giving a bonus to Animal Handling, and derive information from that, but that's the limit I would go with here, unless we talk about high INT beasts running about.
Yeah I tend towards the not being able to communicate with another animal of the same type while wild shaped. But Mephista has a good idea with an improved handle animal, I think of this as you have had to carefully watch said creature that you are wildshaping into so it would make sense you might know general ways they might influence each other. Like getting your hackles up as a cat to show you are pissed off, or a show of dominance in some form.
The animals you can turn into don't have high intelligence so trying to communicate complicated concepts would not work well.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
I'd allow the ability to communicate to the animal based on it's intelligence level and circumstance. Something territorial may just attack an encroaching druid while a spider with an intelligence of 1 wouldn't respond to any type of communication.
I agree with leaving communication to animal level. I always liked Terry Pratchett's quote on animal intelligence in Equal Rites.
“Animal minds are simple, and therefore sharp. Animals never spend time dividing experience into little bits and speculating about all the bits they've missed. The whole panoply of the universe has been neatly expressed to them as things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. This frees the mind from unnecessary thoughts and gives it a cutting edge where it matters. Your normal animal, in fact, never tries to walk and chew gum at the same time.
If the party is encountering a Giant Spider, turning into one the Druid could convince it the party is "no food". It might even be able to get an idea of what the spider considers predators (what it runs away from) and prey (what it eats) in the area.
If someone buried a magical acorn, then talking to a squirrel might be a great idea... otherwise the conversations is going to get pretty nuts.
If someone buried a magical acorn, then talking to a squirrel might be a great idea... otherwise the conversations is going to get pretty nuts.
Just remember, squirrels only find, on average, 26% of nuts they bury themselves. Finding a magic nut that someone else buried would have even a slimmer chance. But at least now everyone has the percent to hit for nut finding for a squirrel lol
"OK Thanks for your inputs. Idk why there are so many things about squirrels but thanks"
They could have used kangaroos as an example but :
1) How many kangaroos does the average party encounter? 2) Skippy.
"What's that, Skippy? Timmy's fallen down an old mine shaft and can't get a signal on his mobile?"
They could have used Drop Bears as an example, but no sensible party stands around to talk to them. Far too dangerous. And platypi? Platypusses? They have enough on their minds dealing with being semi-aquatic egg-laying mammals of action.
I initially thought this as well, then I found some posts that pointed out that you take on the all the stats in the stat block except the mental stats. This includes creature type as well. This impacts multiple game mechanics (hold person, charm, dominate, anything that targets a humanoid). A druid in wild shape is a beast, and that should always be taken into account.
I initially thought this as well, then I found some posts that pointed out that a druid takes on the all the stats in the stat block except the mental stats. This includes creature type as well. This impacts multiple game mechanics (hold person, charm, dominate, anything that targets a humanoid). A druid in wild shape is a beast, and that should always be taken into account.
If a Druid uses wild shape (lets say into a squirrel for example) can the druid in the shape of a squirrel talk to other squirrels without using the "Speak with Animals" spell? As in a full conversation. I've looked it up but its all "Can my Druid talk to my party when i'm a giant spider" or "is it wrong that I wrote a message to someone while in wild shape" I'm stating this now so no one just puts the description of Wild shape it under here. No I don't mean to the party I mean the animal.(Also if you could list some animals that have mimicry. not just birds I mean any creatures. I'm a Circle of the Moon Druid so I don't have much restrictions besides the basic restrictions of No swim/Fly until this level.)
You're right in that I don't see any rules on this.
In 5th edition, the rules are pretty specific - if they don't talk about a thing being possible, then it isn't - the rules avoid situations where we're supposed to infer a rule based on other rules.
The Speak with Animals spell is magic - it enables the caster and the animal to converse.
The wildshape ability mentions nothing about allowing the ability to converse with creatures.
That said - if a group want to use a house rule that it's possible, then that's totally ok to do that. :)
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When wild shaped, you don't lose the ability to communicate. It's just that you can physically only vocalize a specific way now. So, I can guess that:
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I would argue that in WildShape you gain all the proficiency of the animal! The rules are clear about that.
A squirrel has proficiency in squirrel. You can talk to and understand squirrel.
Just like if you turn into a fire elemental you gain Ignian (primordial?)
I think the real question should be can a squirrel carry out a full conversation anyway. If they can't do it normally you don't gain the ability to give them Squirrelspeak
A lot of animal communication comes from body language. Take for example, cats. Cats generally only meow for dealing with kittens, or humans (which shows what they think of human intelligence, I suppose). The majority of cat-other animal communication is body language. You can't exactly communicate about hidden thief guild locations that way, can you?
I can see giving a bonus to Animal Handling, and derive information from that, but that's the limit I would go with here, unless we talk about high INT beasts running about.
Yeah I tend towards the not being able to communicate with another animal of the same type while wild shaped. But Mephista has a good idea with an improved handle animal, I think of this as you have had to carefully watch said creature that you are wildshaping into so it would make sense you might know general ways they might influence each other. Like getting your hackles up as a cat to show you are pissed off, or a show of dominance in some form.
The animals you can turn into don't have high intelligence so trying to communicate complicated concepts would not work well.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
I'd allow the ability to communicate to the animal based on it's intelligence level and circumstance. Something territorial may just attack an encroaching druid while a spider with an intelligence of 1 wouldn't respond to any type of communication.
I agree with leaving communication to animal level. I always liked Terry Pratchett's quote on animal intelligence in Equal Rites.
If the party is encountering a Giant Spider, turning into one the Druid could convince it the party is "no food".
It might even be able to get an idea of what the spider considers predators (what it runs away from) and prey (what it eats) in the area.
If someone buried a magical acorn, then talking to a squirrel might be a great idea... otherwise the conversations is going to get pretty nuts.
Just remember, squirrels only find, on average, 26% of nuts they bury themselves. Finding a magic nut that someone else buried would have even a slimmer chance. But at least now everyone has the percent to hit for nut finding for a squirrel lol
OK Thanks for your inputs. Idk why there are so many things about squirrels but thanks
"OK Thanks for your inputs. Idk why there are so many things about squirrels but thanks"
They could have used kangaroos as an example but :
1) How many kangaroos does the average party encounter?
2) Skippy.
"What's that, Skippy? Timmy's fallen down an old mine shaft and can't get a signal on his mobile?"
They could have used Drop Bears as an example, but no sensible party stands around to talk to them. Far too dangerous.
And platypi? Platypusses? They have enough on their minds dealing with being semi-aquatic egg-laying mammals of action.
Hey, where is Perry?
Roleplaying since Runequest.
I've always viewed wild shape as more if a fey characteristic then actually becoming a beast like some form or lycanthropy.
When you use conjure animals, you're not calling upon actual animals. You're actually calling upon fey spirits that take the form of the beasts.
I've applied this same principal to wild shape as well.
You may look like the beast but your still not the beast.
I initially thought this as well, then I found some posts that pointed out that you take on the all the stats in the stat block except the mental stats. This includes creature type as well. This impacts multiple game mechanics (hold person, charm, dominate, anything that targets a humanoid). A druid in wild shape is a beast, and that should always be taken into account.
I initially thought this as well, then I found some posts that pointed out that a druid takes on the all the stats in the stat block except the mental stats. This includes creature type as well. This impacts multiple game mechanics (hold person, charm, dominate, anything that targets a humanoid). A druid in wild shape is a beast, and that should always be taken into account.
It saved our party in one game.
A Ghost couldn't possess my Barbarian/Moon Druid...