Druids as a concept are something I actually really love but the 5e version of them has me in a very 'meh' mood about it. I can't put my finger on exactly why but it may have to do with the fact that I can't find any real synergy with class/race/feat/skill and story combinations. To be clear, I don't prioritise any single one of those aspects, but rather always look for some sort of combination that makes the character interesting to play, both mechanically and for roleplaying purposes. There needs to be some sort of connection between all those elements that makes the whole greater than the parts and I just don't seem able to find that connection to the 5e druid in any characters I build.
Out of 77 characters I have on DDB, not a single one of them is a druid for this very reason.
An example of what I find doesn't work, in order to save some time replying after the fact. Firbolgs, for instance, would seem like a logical choice, but the fact that they get Strength as a racial bonus kills that concept for me because Strength doesn't perform any role in any druid build and so I see it as a wasted racial stat bump. I also despise the 5e firbolg because it's a bloody oversized gnome, not a firbolg.
Point is, the synergy between the firbolg mechanics and the class only line up thematically, and I need everything to line up as perfectly as possible, both thematically and mechanically, otherwise I feel like it's a subpar character. That's not to say that I won't consider such misalignments, but the overriding elements that support such a build would have to be significant enough to warrant it.
And yes, I'm anal like that.
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"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
So, hopefully I've understood you correctly here: you don't like druid because you can't find a race + druid combo you like?
I'm not sure if there is any "perfect combination", and certainly, thematic or aesthetic combinations are up to the imagination of the player. For instance, I currently play a half-orc druid. Very few of the race features and stats are particularly helpful, but Relentless Endurance is ridiculous on spellcasters. You make your own combination fit. If you can't bring yourself to play a druid the way you want to, well, maybe that's just you, and maybe it doesn't matter that much because you find a better fit for yourself in another class. That's totally fine, because we're all different and like different things.
So, hopefully I've understood you correctly here: you don't like druid because you can't find a race + druid combo you like?
No. Imagine an optimised character that considers every element of a character as part of the optimisation process rather than merely the mechanical aspects. So even if all statistics align, if it's a forced concept that doesn't thematically suit the race, class, stat, skill, feat, subclass choices so that you can't make an interesting character to roleplay, then it wouldn't be optimised.
I can force a story concept onto any build and justify whatever whacky combination there is, but that would be just as illegitimate to me as giving a rogue a 12 dexterity and using a Strength based race with sunlight sensitivity in a game set on Athas. There needs to be some sort of natural synthesis of all elements of a character before I actually like it and want to play it.
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"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
Well, it sounds to me that your particular preferences may preclude finding a choice that justifies choosing druid, otherwise you probably would've found one by now. And that's ok.
So what's wrong with the super obvious choices of wood elf, human, tortle* or lizardfolk, or the somewhat unconventional choices of kenku or aarakocra?
* Yes, I'm aware tortles have strength, but they also have stupidly high AC regardless of DEX. Strength helps with exploration and escaping grapples, which aren't completely wasted on a druid.
My take on the issue: druids have a fantastic set of tools that justify their spot in any party regardless of race choice. A race mismatch will only have a small impact on your abilities and I'd rather have a slightly suboptimal druid in the party than plenty of other classes played optimally.
A race mismatch will only have a small impact on your abilities...
Which is entirely irrelevant to this thread. It's not about what you like or what you find acceptable. I stated pretty clearly in the OP what my reasoning was and what I was looking for to be convinced.
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"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
Ok folks, a caution here - by all means discuss the topic at hand, but please don't let it turn into making attacks against each other's posts - that's not allowed here.
On topic - I find the core mechanic of shapechanging to be a little odd for 5e druids, compared to previous editions. It feels a little forced for all druids to have this.
I've only played one 5e druid and it was human, an elderly man who became a "priest" of nature to better tend to the crops and woodland, but is massively allergic to animals and suddenly finds himself "cursed" with turning into one of the things... I dunno, just seemed an interesting spin on things.
I can't find any real synergy with class/race/feat/skill and story combinations. To be clear, I don't prioritise any single one of those aspects, but rather always look for some sort of combination that makes the character interesting to play, both mechanically and for roleplaying purposes.
Class: Druid (a Wisdom caster)
Race: Firbolg, Aarakocra, Lizardfolk, Wood Elf as indicated all play to your Wis, but any race can work, just put you Wis at 15 if you are using standard or your high role if you roll stats
Feat: never seen this as part of deliberation for building a character but there are a ton that would fit, Warcaster and Mobile immediately come to mind.
Skill: Not sure what you mean by this, are you talking taking Nature and Survival, History, Perception, Stealth, Athletics - all of which would fit a Druid perfectly
Story: that’s on you. If you can’t come up with a person in touch with Nature get help from you Players/DM.
What synergy are you looking for that you can’t find? Are you trying to min/max? Druids are one of the few classes that are powerful from 2-20.
I have a Human Revenant Spore Druid. She's currently an off-tanky caster of sorts because of both the race's Constitution bonuses and the Temporary HP from Symbiotic Entity. (She can reach up to 100HP at level 8) I found this useful for the subrace since there's a limited number of ways to heal an undead, making the entirety of their HP borderline temporary anyway.
I have Shillelagh as a huge part of her character, too. So that the additional 1d6 poison damage to melee attacks that comes with Symbiotic Entity would be frequently utilized.
And lore-wise. Circle of Spore Druids are all about that undeath beez neez. Your death that lead you to become a Revenant could've been related to some messed up ritual that involves the demon queen of fungus and decay herself, Zuggtmoy. Or maybe you were looking for a cure to a spore infection and died in the process as the spores overtake you and you become a the first Spore Druid in that world. yada yada yada.
There's a ton of fun ways to experiment with your background when you have this race/class combo. I personally like this combo better than most because it shies away from the elegant elvish archetype you see more often.
Race: I think my favorite race for druid is the Ghostwise Halfling. It's an often overlooked one because it's in SCAG, but it's pretty great. It's main stats are DEX + WIS, which is perfect for a druid. It also has the ability to communicate telepathically with another creature while wild shaped. This means you can overcome the main inconvenience of being wild shaped for long periods of time. Also having the lucky trait is pretty nice.
Feat: I also agree with Warcaster as a feat if you plan on playing as a Moon Druid. Thematically, a Ghostwise halfling would likely choose this path, but doesn't have to. After that, I'd recommend getting WIS to 20 ASAP.
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I'm actually a big fan of druids. I think one of my favorite tropes is getting a buddy comedy routine with the rogue or wizard (assuming they are city based). As one or the other will be the fish out of water.
That said playing to that trope is how "Scales" my favorite Druid came out. Lizardfolk Barbarian/Moon Druid, with tools: cooking utensils. His goal was to eventually ate every possible thing, and used Cunning Artisan to make the most out of the most powerful of foes. Was that a powerful monster we just defeated? It's probably about to become Roast Displacer Beast with a side of wild mushrooms and possibly his new shield. It was a running gag in the game if the party would eat his cooking or not, it was dependent on if they knew what the "mystery meat" was. Also, misquoted Anthony Bourdain.
That said I agree with Sillvva, Ghost-wise are great Druids, especially Moon Druids if you want to stay "in form" as long as possible. It means your Druid isn't pantomiming everything.
I will say a vuhman with the feat Observant is really nice. You definitely are "the eyes" of the nature. Because Druids get medium armor, they only "need" +2 Dex to max out their.... that said there is shenanigans about "metal armor" which "can" limit their armor options to the crappiest of armor.
I'm actually not a big fan of Warcaster on a Moon Druid, but Mobility yes. It helps counter the low AC of Wild Shape. In Wild Shape a druid can't cast spells, so you aren't really using most of Warcaster. At best you're popping Barkskin and hoping to keep it throughout combat, with Warcaster... which isn't a great hope.
I personally dislike the trope of "druids hate civilization" because it's done to death and rarely creates constructive role playing with the party. No one likes misanthropes. Instead I like to do the troupe as "druid as tourist" You speak the language, but you don't get the things. You purposely misinterpret things, as long as the party thinks it's hilarious and you don't knock the game off track. Be inquisitive, but alien. the mentality of a land, shepard, dreams, moon, or spore can be very very different. To me Moon is about connecting closer to beasts then people. You're like a faux-lycanthrope. The others... what do you think their trope lies? If you still just don't find Druids engaging... that's fine too.
I'm actually not a big fan of Warcaster on a Moon Druid, but Mobility yes. It helps counter the low AC of Wild Shape. In Wild Shape a druid can't cast spells, so you aren't really using most of Warcaster. At best you're popping Barkskin and hoping to keep it throughout combat, with Warcaster... which isn't a great hope.
Many of the preferred Druid spells (especially conjure's and polymorph) are concentration and desirable while wildshaped. Warcaster can mean the difference between having say, one cave bear in the fight, or two.
If looking at a druid other than circle of the moon I'd suggest multi classing the other circles.
A War forged made of Stone and Wood works great if you look at class linking with a Wizard or Warlock.
A half-Orc shaman is another option for a race class and either go a Ranger or Barbarian for the cross over.
Another fun one that I'm thinking of trying is a druid/monk or sorcerer.
Both the monk and sorcerer have point based abilities that pending on your group and how they interpret rules, could also be used in Wild Shape.
A Druid Monk way of the four elements could result in a bear with fire claws or way of the open palm could make that bear into an MMA fighter if you took the Grappler Feat.
Similarly with the Druid Sorcerer by 5th level (2/3) you could theoretically have Beast Spells for every 1 SP you spent in Wild Shape you could cast spells without using Somatic and Verbal components.
If your DM permitted the wearing of a chain holding a druid and/or arcane focus you could also perform the material component spells as well.
Imagine taking the form of a large sized creature then looking down at yourself to cast Enlarge/Reduce.
Now your size is huge and you can go wrestle that bloody red dragon in its cave or in the Sky's as a huge giant eagle.
Druids can be more versatile but personally I find that the non moon circles benefit from multi classing as they have spells that can complement another class's abilities.
A Druid Monk way of the four elements could result in a bear with fire claws or way of the open palm could make that bear into an MMA fighter if you took the Grappler Feat.
None of the 3rd level monk features are worth being 3 levels behind in spellcasting and Combat Wild Shape, in my opinion. I'd stop at 1st level for Martial Arts and Unarmored Defense.
Similarly with the Druid Sorcerer by 5th level (2/3) you could theoretically have Beast Spells for every 1 SP you spent in Wild Shape you could cast spells without using Somatic and Verbal components.
Druids as a concept are something I actually really love but the 5e version of them has me in a very 'meh' mood about it. I can't put my finger on exactly why but it may have to do with the fact that I can't find any real synergy with class/race/feat/skill and story combinations. To be clear, I don't prioritise any single one of those aspects, but rather always look for some sort of combination that makes the character interesting to play, both mechanically and for roleplaying purposes. There needs to be some sort of connection between all those elements that makes the whole greater than the parts and I just don't seem able to find that connection to the 5e druid in any characters I build.
Out of 77 characters I have on DDB, not a single one of them is a druid for this very reason.
An example of what I find doesn't work, in order to save some time replying after the fact. Firbolgs, for instance, would seem like a logical choice, but the fact that they get Strength as a racial bonus kills that concept for me because Strength doesn't perform any role in any druid build and so I see it as a wasted racial stat bump. I also despise the 5e firbolg because it's a bloody oversized gnome, not a firbolg.
Point is, the synergy between the firbolg mechanics and the class only line up thematically, and I need everything to line up as perfectly as possible, both thematically and mechanically, otherwise I feel like it's a subpar character. That's not to say that I won't consider such misalignments, but the overriding elements that support such a build would have to be significant enough to warrant it.
And yes, I'm anal like that.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
So, hopefully I've understood you correctly here: you don't like druid because you can't find a race + druid combo you like?
I'm not sure if there is any "perfect combination", and certainly, thematic or aesthetic combinations are up to the imagination of the player. For instance, I currently play a half-orc druid. Very few of the race features and stats are particularly helpful, but Relentless Endurance is ridiculous on spellcasters. You make your own combination fit. If you can't bring yourself to play a druid the way you want to, well, maybe that's just you, and maybe it doesn't matter that much because you find a better fit for yourself in another class. That's totally fine, because we're all different and like different things.
No. Imagine an optimised character that considers every element of a character as part of the optimisation process rather than merely the mechanical aspects. So even if all statistics align, if it's a forced concept that doesn't thematically suit the race, class, stat, skill, feat, subclass choices so that you can't make an interesting character to roleplay, then it wouldn't be optimised.
I can force a story concept onto any build and justify whatever whacky combination there is, but that would be just as illegitimate to me as giving a rogue a 12 dexterity and using a Strength based race with sunlight sensitivity in a game set on Athas. There needs to be some sort of natural synthesis of all elements of a character before I actually like it and want to play it.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
Well, it sounds to me that your particular preferences may preclude finding a choice that justifies choosing druid, otherwise you probably would've found one by now. And that's ok.
So what's wrong with the super obvious choices of wood elf, human, tortle* or lizardfolk, or the somewhat unconventional choices of kenku or aarakocra?
* Yes, I'm aware tortles have strength, but they also have stupidly high AC regardless of DEX. Strength helps with exploration and escaping grapples, which aren't completely wasted on a druid.
My take on the issue: druids have a fantastic set of tools that justify their spot in any party regardless of race choice. A race mismatch will only have a small impact on your abilities and I'd rather have a slightly suboptimal druid in the party than plenty of other classes played optimally.
Which is entirely irrelevant to this thread. It's not about what you like or what you find acceptable. I stated pretty clearly in the OP what my reasoning was and what I was looking for to be convinced.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
Ok folks, a caution here - by all means discuss the topic at hand, but please don't let it turn into making attacks against each other's posts - that's not allowed here.
Thank you. :)
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If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
On topic - I find the core mechanic of shapechanging to be a little odd for 5e druids, compared to previous editions. It feels a little forced for all druids to have this.
I've only played one 5e druid and it was human, an elderly man who became a "priest" of nature to better tend to the crops and woodland, but is massively allergic to animals and suddenly finds himself "cursed" with turning into one of the things... I dunno, just seemed an interesting spin on things.
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Class: Druid (a Wisdom caster)
Race: Firbolg, Aarakocra, Lizardfolk, Wood Elf as indicated all play to your Wis, but any race can work, just put you Wis at 15 if you are using standard or your high role if you roll stats
Feat: never seen this as part of deliberation for building a character but there are a ton that would fit, Warcaster and Mobile immediately come to mind.
Skill: Not sure what you mean by this, are you talking taking Nature and Survival, History, Perception, Stealth, Athletics - all of which would fit a Druid perfectly
Story: that’s on you. If you can’t come up with a person in touch with Nature get help from you Players/DM.
What synergy are you looking for that you can’t find? Are you trying to min/max? Druids are one of the few classes that are powerful from 2-20.
I have a Human Revenant Spore Druid. She's currently an off-tanky caster of sorts because of both the race's Constitution bonuses and the Temporary HP from Symbiotic Entity. (She can reach up to 100HP at level 8) I found this useful for the subrace since there's a limited number of ways to heal an undead, making the entirety of their HP borderline temporary anyway.
I have Shillelagh as a huge part of her character, too. So that the additional 1d6 poison damage to melee attacks that comes with Symbiotic Entity would be frequently utilized.
And lore-wise. Circle of Spore Druids are all about that undeath beez neez. Your death that lead you to become a Revenant could've been related to some messed up ritual that involves the demon queen of fungus and decay herself, Zuggtmoy. Or maybe you were looking for a cure to a spore infection and died in the process as the spores overtake you and you become a the first Spore Druid in that world. yada yada yada.
There's a ton of fun ways to experiment with your background when you have this race/class combo. I personally like this combo better than most because it shies away from the elegant elvish archetype you see more often.
Race: I think my favorite race for druid is the Ghostwise Halfling. It's an often overlooked one because it's in SCAG, but it's pretty great. It's main stats are DEX + WIS, which is perfect for a druid. It also has the ability to communicate telepathically with another creature while wild shaped. This means you can overcome the main inconvenience of being wild shaped for long periods of time. Also having the lucky trait is pretty nice.
Feat: I also agree with Warcaster as a feat if you plan on playing as a Moon Druid. Thematically, a Ghostwise halfling would likely choose this path, but doesn't have to. After that, I'd recommend getting WIS to 20 ASAP.
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I'm actually a big fan of druids.
I think one of my favorite tropes is getting a buddy comedy routine with the rogue or wizard (assuming they are city based). As one or the other will be the fish out of water.
That said playing to that trope is how "Scales" my favorite Druid came out. Lizardfolk Barbarian/Moon Druid, with tools: cooking utensils.
His goal was to eventually ate every possible thing, and used Cunning Artisan to make the most out of the most powerful of foes. Was that a powerful monster we just defeated? It's probably about to become Roast Displacer Beast with a side of wild mushrooms and possibly his new shield.
It was a running gag in the game if the party would eat his cooking or not, it was dependent on if they knew what the "mystery meat" was. Also, misquoted Anthony Bourdain.
That said I agree with Sillvva, Ghost-wise are great Druids, especially Moon Druids if you want to stay "in form" as long as possible. It means your Druid isn't pantomiming everything.
I will say a vuhman with the feat Observant is really nice. You definitely are "the eyes" of the nature.
Because Druids get medium armor, they only "need" +2 Dex to max out their.... that said there is shenanigans about "metal armor" which "can" limit their armor options to the crappiest of armor.
I'm actually not a big fan of Warcaster on a Moon Druid, but Mobility yes. It helps counter the low AC of Wild Shape.
In Wild Shape a druid can't cast spells, so you aren't really using most of Warcaster. At best you're popping Barkskin and hoping to keep it throughout combat, with Warcaster... which isn't a great hope.
I personally dislike the trope of "druids hate civilization" because it's done to death and rarely creates constructive role playing with the party. No one likes misanthropes.
Instead I like to do the troupe as "druid as tourist" You speak the language, but you don't get the things. You purposely misinterpret things, as long as the party thinks it's hilarious and you don't knock the game off track. Be inquisitive, but alien.
the mentality of a land, shepard, dreams, moon, or spore can be very very different. To me Moon is about connecting closer to beasts then people. You're like a faux-lycanthrope.
The others... what do you think their trope lies?
If you still just don't find Druids engaging... that's fine too.
Hmm, a ghostwise halfling with the Bountiful Luck, Second Chance and Squat Nimbleness feats as a Moon Druid does seem interesting...
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
Many of the preferred Druid spells (especially conjure's and polymorph) are concentration and desirable while wildshaped. Warcaster can mean the difference between having say, one cave bear in the fight, or two.
If looking at a druid other than circle of the moon I'd suggest multi classing the other circles.
A War forged made of Stone and Wood works great if you look at class linking with a Wizard or Warlock.
A half-Orc shaman is another option for a race class and either go a Ranger or Barbarian for the cross over.
Another fun one that I'm thinking of trying is a druid/monk or sorcerer.
Both the monk and sorcerer have point based abilities that pending on your group and how they interpret rules, could also be used in Wild Shape.
A Druid Monk way of the four elements could result in a bear with fire claws or way of the open palm could make that bear into an MMA fighter if you took the Grappler Feat.
Similarly with the Druid Sorcerer by 5th level (2/3) you could theoretically have Beast Spells for every 1 SP you spent in Wild Shape you could cast spells without using Somatic and Verbal components.
If your DM permitted the wearing of a chain holding a druid and/or arcane focus you could also perform the material component spells as well.
Imagine taking the form of a large sized creature then looking down at yourself to cast Enlarge/Reduce.
Now your size is huge and you can go wrestle that bloody red dragon in its cave or in the Sky's as a huge giant eagle.
Druids can be more versatile but personally I find that the non moon circles benefit from multi classing as they have spells that can complement another class's abilities.
None of the 3rd level monk features are worth being 3 levels behind in spellcasting and Combat Wild Shape, in my opinion. I'd stop at 1st level for Martial Arts and Unarmored Defense.
You can't cast spells in Wild Shape form until 18th level, regardless of the spell's components. The restriction on actions that require hands or speech is separate from the restriction on casting spells.