so for this to work you need one level in monk I know everyone goes barbarian but forget that for a few reasons 1. monk unarmored defense is wisdom + dex and as a druid you will have alot of wisdom 2. your wildshape attacks count toward Martial Arts as they are unarmed so you get free bonus attacks
3. Makes the air elemental you can shift into at level 10 super OP and kind of broken
so lets look at that last one, lets say your are player level 11+ and you have 20 wisdom and one level in monk and you use both charges of wildshape to shift into a air elemental, congrats you now have 20AC, 90 feet of flying speed, you get Air Form (The elemental can enter a hostile creature's space and stop there. It can move through a space as narrow as 1 inch wide without squeezing) and you can make three +8 to hit 2d8+5 slam attacks and you still have the benefit of any magical items you may have on you like that staff of protection that gives you +1 ac and lets you cast shield (it bypasses the can't cast spells because your not casting it the staff is) now every time I see people talking up the moon druid they can't shut up about the fire elemental who is kind of lame, air elemental has the highest damage output because of the fact it has 20 dex and its attacks deal bludgeoning in place of fire, witch is like the second most common damage resistance for enemies to have resistance to.
also if you take more levels in monk you could use furry of blows, you also get the unarmored movement so as the air elemental you get 100 feet of flying speed so you can just go anywhere you want.
Martial Arts says: "When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon on your turn, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action."
An air elemental's slam attack is not a monk weapon and not unarmed strike (which is the name of a specific attack action). So you can only make 2 slam attacks with multiattack.
You said Air elementals had the highest damage (2 2d8+5 attacks), but fire elemental does way more damage against a group (2 2d6+3 attacks and each enemy taking 2d10 extra fire damage). And fire elemental will have 18 AC from unarmored defense which is still pretty good.
But druids also have good high level abilities which you are giving up or at least delaying.
it certainly sounds like an interesting character to play! 😊
It's worth noting though that martial arts attacks are specifically unarmed or with a monk weapon. The natural attacks of a creature that the druid is wildshaped into do not count as unarmed attacks for this purpose.
That air elemental whilst pretty cool, doesn't get additional attacks due to being a monk. I'm pretty sure you could forego the elemental's attack actions and still use the Monk martial arts as an air elemental, but the attacks would be calculated as normal, using the martial arts die for damage.
The beauty of D&D is that you can easily use homebrew rules in your campaign and say that wildshape attacks do count as monk weapons/unarmed, but be aware this isn't RAW.
Unfortunately the air elemental and staff also isn't viable with RAW:
From Staff of Defense - this means the character needs to actually be holding the staff, not just have it strapped to them or "melded" in the way that a druids' equipment can when they wildshape.
While holding the staff, you have a +1 bonus to your Armor Class.
Additionally, it references again that the staff needs to be held in hand to activate its powers:
With the staff in hand, you can use your action to cast one of the following spells from the staff if the spell is on your class’s spell list
I really like the ideas, but the rules don't seem to support this. 😢
edit: Ah DxJxC beat me to it while I was typing (I blame getting distracted by work).
Actually, natural weapons do count as unarmed strikes for martial arts. The "Talons" of an Aarakocra Monk automatically apply the martial arts damage die, and the attack type is even explicitly listed as "Unarmed Strike".
The problem with shifting to an Air Elemental is whether the Slam attack is actually an "Unarmed Strike" or not.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
That's an exception though for that race, rather than a rule.
You are proficient with your unarmed strikes, which deal 1d4 slashing damage on a hit.
It's actually not. It also applies to every race that has a natural weapon: Aarakocra, Centaur, Lizardfolk, Minotaur, Tabaxi, etc.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
it certainly sounds like an interesting character to play! 😊
It's worth noting though that martial arts attacks are specifically unarmed or with a monk weapon. The natural attacks of a creature that the druid is wildshaped into do not count as unarmed attacks for this purpose.
That air elemental whilst pretty cool, doesn't get additional attacks due to being a monk. I'm pretty sure you could forego the elemental's attack actions and still use the Monk martial arts as an air elemental, but the attacks would be calculated as normal, using the martial arts die for damage.
The beauty of D&D is that you can easily use homebrew rules in your campaign and say that wildshape attacks do count as monk weapons/unarmed, but be aware this isn't RAW.
Unfortunately the air elemental and staff also isn't viable with RAW:
From Staff of Defense - this means the character needs to actually be holding the staff, not just have it strapped to them or "melded" in the way that a druids' equipment can when they wildshape.
While holding the staff, you have a +1 bonus to your Armor Class.
Additionally, it references again that the staff needs to be held in hand to activate its powers:
With the staff in hand, you can use your action to cast one of the following spells from the staff if the spell is on your class’s spell list
I really like the ideas, but the rules don't seem to support this. 😢
edit: Ah DxJxC beat me to it while I was typing (I blame getting distracted by work).
Well I rearched this alot before posting so first off by your ruling druids are unable to use any magic items because they cant be worn or held, in truth you can use any item melded into you including magic weapons that can become the animals hide, when a magic weapon is PART OF YOU you can use it
Second a unarmed attack is a melee attack made with no weapons, the slam attack is a natural unarmed attack attack many creatures have further more natural weapons like bear claws and bite attacks count towards monk weapons, if you were to have your ruling you would only be able to use the natural monk dice for the attack
Once more this subject was throughly researched before being posted so please do not bring bad rulings here
I have no wish to argue with you, I was just trying to help by explaining how these rules work, as they are often misunderstood or misinterpreted. I can see that wasn't something that was wanted.
You're welcome to change the rules of D&D to fit how you and your group want to play the game. :)
Well I rearched this alot before posting so first off by your ruling druids are unable to use any magic items because they cant be worn or held, in truth you can use any item melded into you including magic weapons that can become the animals hide, when a magic weapon is PART OF YOU you can use it
You choose whether your equipment falls to the ground in your space, merges into your new form, or is worn by it. Worn equipment functions as normal, but the DM decides whether it is practical for the new form to wear a piece of equipment, based on the creature’s shape and size. Your equipment doesn’t change size or shape to match the new form, and any equipment that the new form can’t wear must either fall to the ground or merge with it. Equipment that merges with the form has no effect until you leave the form.
If the item in question is not something that can be wielded or properly worn in your new form, it does not function. Your DM may rule differently, but Stormknight is absolutely correct in saying that you cannot do this by RAW.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
According to Air Elemental their slam attacks are melee weapon attacks and they aren't on the list of monk weapons so they don't work with the Monk's martial arts ability. Plus as a few people have commented, magic items only work if they can be worn or carried by the form that you're shifting into.
However, a dual class Moon Druid / Monk could use a lot of a monk's other abilities while wild shaped into an elemental. Stunning Strike jumps out at me for example! The combination isn't quite as overpowered as the original poster wants them to be, but it has a lot of potential. I'm just not sure that it's worth giving up unlimited Wild Shapes at 20th level.
Well I rearched this alot before posting so first off by your ruling druids are unable to use any magic items because they cant be worn or held, in truth you can use any item melded into you including magic weapons that can become the animals hide, when a magic weapon is PART OF YOU you can use it
You choose whether your equipment falls to the ground in your space, merges into your new form, or is worn by it. Worn equipment functions as normal, but the DM decides whether it is practical for the new form to wear a piece of equipment, based on the creature’s shape and size. Your equipment doesn’t change size or shape to match the new form, and any equipment that the new form can’t wear must either fall to the ground or merge with it. Equipment that merges with the form has no effect until you leave the form.
If the item in question is not something that can be wielded or properly worn in your new form, it does not function. Your DM may rule differently, but Stormknight is absolutely correct in saying that you cannot do this by RAW.
Equipment is not magic items, matter of fact a item such as a staff of defense is not listed under equipment in the least, furthermore it says equipment the equipment functions as normal, this means any bonuses it Grant's functions as normal, a item such as the staff of defense requires no other action to use it other than it be on your person to benefit from it as it states it must be held, when it merges into your body it is held. Dude really just goggle stuff before you post lol everything I posted is RAW
Also the feature also states weather or not you can use half equipment in said forms, by the rules if you have a +2 quater staff and your child shape has hands and thumbs the DM can say you can keep using that quater staff as a weapon, going back to most magic items, moreover ones that cast spells there only requirement is for you to HOLD THEM, having then murged into you does count as holding it, the item itself does the rest you do not need to meet any of the spells components.
Equipment is not magic items, matter of fact a item such as a staff of defense is not listed under equipment in the least, furthermore it says equipment the equipment functions as normal, this means any bonuses it Grant's functions as normal, a item such as the staff of defense requires no other action to use it other than it be on your person to benefit from it as it states it must be held, when it merges into your body it is held. Dude really just goggle stuff before you post lol everything I posted is RAW
Yes, magic items are equipment... equipment is literally everything on your inventory sheet. 🙄
Cite your sources if you believe a Quarterstaff and a +1 Quarterstaff aren't both equipment under RAW. Regardless, if it's merged into your body, you aren't holding it.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
2. Learn how to Google stuff, there is a wonderful th ing called sage advicd in witch the games creators often comment in and offer there rulings
3. Being held is defined as putting some type of limb around it and making contact with your body....if being part of you does not count as being held then no one can use magic items ever because apparently fusing it too your body is just not enough so how does 10 fingers count as holding it lol
Also if you really want to get into technicals about magic items that only requirement is being held, any medium sized beast with a mouth can hold it in said mouth *mic drop*
Again, cite your sources. If you think there is a sage advice article on the topic, link the actual article in which Crawford or Mearls actually say any of the things that you claim, and in which the answer is not "it's up to your DM".
I'm going to follow Stormknight's advice and not further engage with you in this discussion as you are clearly not interested in anything other than your own cherry-picked argument.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Chapter 5 of the PHB is titled Equipment. This section talks about everything considered as such. There is a subheading named “Magic Items”.
So Magic Items are, in fact, equipment.
Now, the 1st paragraph in the DMG titled Wearing and Wielding Items:
Using a magic item’s properties might mean wearing or wielding it. A magic item meant to be worn must be donned in the intended fashion: boots go on the feet, gloves on the hands, hats and helmets on the head, and rings on the finger. Magic armor must be donned, a shield strapped to the arm, a cloak fastened about the shoulders. A weapon must be held in hand.
So pick up your mic. The magic item isn’t meant to be put in your mouth, placing there will not make it work.
If you actually read Wildshaped, the very first sentence states the three things that happen to your equipment. The only magic items you could use would be items you can wear, depending on if your Wildshape has the correct body parts for. A bear can’t use a ring, but can use a cloak.
That's an exception though for that race, rather than a rule.
You are proficient with your unarmed strikes, which deal 1d4 slashing damage on a hit.
It's actually not. It also applies to every race that has a natural weapon: Aarakocra, Centaur, Lizardfolk, Minotaur, Tabaxi, etc.
It applies to every PC race that has a natural weapons because it is an explicit exception on each one of those races. The fact that it is explicitly called out for each of them should be a clue that natural weapons being unarmed strikes is not normally the case.
@OP, I don't care how much "Rearch" or "Goggling" you did, "lol." The rules as written do not support your claims, as many people have pointed out. And you have not provided any evidence to back your claims.
That's an exception though for that race, rather than a rule.
You are proficient with your unarmed strikes, which deal 1d4 slashing damage on a hit.
It's actually not. It also applies to every race that has a natural weapon: Aarakocra, Centaur, Lizardfolk, Minotaur, Tabaxi, etc.
Every one of the races you mentioned specifically state that their natural weapons can be used to make unarmed strikes. Monster natural weapons do not have this feature (maybe some do, I'm not going to check all). If they were not exceptions to a rule, they wouldn't need to state the exception.
If a monk / moon druid character makes an unarmed strike, they are using the Attack action and not the Multiattack action. This grants them the benefit of using martial arts and the Extra Attack feature of the monk. This also means they're giving up any extra effects their wildshape form's attacks might have.
Items that are merged with you have no effect until you leave the form. This is explicitly spelled out in the wildshape rules. There is no wiggle room on it. However, if a beast can hold an item in their mouth (tiger) or hands (ape), they have the option to do so. This is also permitted by the wildshape rules.
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How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat On - Mod Hat Off
so for this to work you need one level in monk I know everyone goes barbarian but forget that for a few reasons
1. monk unarmored defense is wisdom + dex and as a druid you will have alot of wisdom
2. your wildshape attacks count toward Martial Arts as they are unarmed so you get free bonus attacks
3. Makes the air elemental you can shift into at level 10 super OP and kind of broken
so lets look at that last one, lets say your are player level 11+ and you have 20 wisdom and one level in monk and you use both charges of wildshape to shift into a air elemental, congrats you now have 20AC, 90 feet of flying speed, you get Air Form (The elemental can enter a hostile creature's space and stop there. It can move through a space as narrow as 1 inch wide without squeezing) and you can make three +8 to hit 2d8+5 slam attacks and you still have the benefit of any magical items you may have on you like that staff of protection that gives you +1 ac and lets you cast shield (it bypasses the can't cast spells because your not casting it the staff is)
now every time I see people talking up the moon druid they can't shut up about the fire elemental who is kind of lame, air elemental has the highest damage output because of the fact it has 20 dex and its attacks deal bludgeoning in place of fire, witch is like the second most common damage resistance for enemies to have resistance to.
also if you take more levels in monk you could use furry of blows, you also get the unarmored movement so as the air elemental you get 100 feet of flying speed so you can just go anywhere you want.
Martial Arts says: "When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon on your turn, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action."
An air elemental's slam attack is not a monk weapon and not unarmed strike (which is the name of a specific attack action). So you can only make 2 slam attacks with multiattack.
You said Air elementals had the highest damage (2 2d8+5 attacks), but fire elemental does way more damage against a group (2 2d6+3 attacks and each enemy taking 2d10 extra fire damage). And fire elemental will have 18 AC from unarmored defense which is still pretty good.
But druids also have good high level abilities which you are giving up or at least delaying.
Hi there ProxyJames,
it certainly sounds like an interesting character to play! 😊
It's worth noting though that martial arts attacks are specifically unarmed or with a monk weapon. The natural attacks of a creature that the druid is wildshaped into do not count as unarmed attacks for this purpose.
That air elemental whilst pretty cool, doesn't get additional attacks due to being a monk. I'm pretty sure you could forego the elemental's attack actions and still use the Monk martial arts as an air elemental, but the attacks would be calculated as normal, using the martial arts die for damage.
The beauty of D&D is that you can easily use homebrew rules in your campaign and say that wildshape attacks do count as monk weapons/unarmed, but be aware this isn't RAW.
Unfortunately the air elemental and staff also isn't viable with RAW:
From Staff of Defense - this means the character needs to actually be holding the staff, not just have it strapped to them or "melded" in the way that a druids' equipment can when they wildshape.
Additionally, it references again that the staff needs to be held in hand to activate its powers:
I really like the ideas, but the rules don't seem to support this. 😢
edit: Ah DxJxC beat me to it while I was typing (I blame getting distracted by work).
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If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Actually, natural weapons do count as unarmed strikes for martial arts. The "Talons" of an Aarakocra Monk automatically apply the martial arts damage die, and the attack type is even explicitly listed as "Unarmed Strike".
The problem with shifting to an Air Elemental is whether the Slam attack is actually an "Unarmed Strike" or not.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
That's an exception though for that race, rather than a rule.
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
It's actually not. It also applies to every race that has a natural weapon: Aarakocra, Centaur, Lizardfolk, Minotaur, Tabaxi, etc.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Well I rearched this alot before posting so first off by your ruling druids are unable to use any magic items because they cant be worn or held, in truth you can use any item melded into you including magic weapons that can become the animals hide, when a magic weapon is PART OF YOU you can use it
Second a unarmed attack is a melee attack made with no weapons, the slam attack is a natural unarmed attack attack many creatures have further more natural weapons like bear claws and bite attacks count towards monk weapons, if you were to have your ruling you would only be able to use the natural monk dice for the attack
Once more this subject was throughly researched before being posted so please do not bring bad rulings here
I have no wish to argue with you, I was just trying to help by explaining how these rules work, as they are often misunderstood or misinterpreted. I can see that wasn't something that was wanted.
You're welcome to change the rules of D&D to fit how you and your group want to play the game. :)
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Stormknight is correct. You cannot do this.
If the item in question is not something that can be wielded or properly worn in your new form, it does not function. Your DM may rule differently, but Stormknight is absolutely correct in saying that you cannot do this by RAW.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
According to Air Elemental their slam attacks are melee weapon attacks and they aren't on the list of monk weapons so they don't work with the Monk's martial arts ability. Plus as a few people have commented, magic items only work if they can be worn or carried by the form that you're shifting into.
However, a dual class Moon Druid / Monk could use a lot of a monk's other abilities while wild shaped into an elemental. Stunning Strike jumps out at me for example! The combination isn't quite as overpowered as the original poster wants them to be, but it has a lot of potential. I'm just not sure that it's worth giving up unlimited Wild Shapes at 20th level.
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Equipment is not magic items, matter of fact a item such as a staff of defense is not listed under equipment in the least, furthermore it says equipment the equipment functions as normal, this means any bonuses it Grant's functions as normal, a item such as the staff of defense requires no other action to use it other than it be on your person to benefit from it as it states it must be held, when it merges into your body it is held. Dude really just goggle stuff before you post lol everything I posted is RAW
Also the feature also states weather or not you can use half equipment in said forms, by the rules if you have a +2 quater staff and your child shape has hands and thumbs the DM can say you can keep using that quater staff as a weapon, going back to most magic items, moreover ones that cast spells there only requirement is for you to HOLD THEM, having then murged into you does count as holding it, the item itself does the rest you do not need to meet any of the spells components.
Yes, magic items are equipment... equipment is literally everything on your inventory sheet. 🙄
Cite your sources if you believe a Quarterstaff and a +1 Quarterstaff aren't both equipment under RAW. Regardless, if it's merged into your body, you aren't holding it.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Ok so 1. Not all magic items are equipment
2. Learn how to Google stuff, there is a wonderful th ing called sage advicd in witch the games creators often comment in and offer there rulings
3. Being held is defined as putting some type of limb around it and making contact with your body....if being part of you does not count as being held then no one can use magic items ever because apparently fusing it too your body is just not enough so how does 10 fingers count as holding it lol
Also if you really want to get into technicals about magic items that only requirement is being held, any medium sized beast with a mouth can hold it in said mouth *mic drop*
Again, cite your sources. If you think there is a sage advice article on the topic, link the actual article in which Crawford or Mearls actually say any of the things that you claim, and in which the answer is not "it's up to your DM".
I'm going to follow Stormknight's advice and not further engage with you in this discussion as you are clearly not interested in anything other than your own cherry-picked argument.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Chapter 5 of the PHB is titled Equipment. This section talks about everything considered as such. There is a subheading named “Magic Items”.
So Magic Items are, in fact, equipment.
Now, the 1st paragraph in the DMG titled Wearing and Wielding Items:
Using a magic item’s properties might mean wearing or wielding it. A magic item meant to be worn must be donned in the intended fashion: boots go on the feet, gloves on the hands, hats and helmets on the head, and rings on the finger. Magic armor must be donned, a shield strapped to the arm, a cloak fastened about the shoulders. A weapon must be held in hand.
So pick up your mic. The magic item isn’t meant to be put in your mouth, placing there will not make it work.
If you actually read Wildshaped, the very first sentence states the three things that happen to your equipment. The only magic items you could use would be items you can wear, depending on if your Wildshape has the correct body parts for. A bear can’t use a ring, but can use a cloak.
It applies to every PC race that has a natural weapons because it is an explicit exception on each one of those races. The fact that it is explicitly called out for each of them should be a clue that natural weapons being unarmed strikes is not normally the case.
@OP, I don't care how much "Rearch" or "Goggling" you did, "lol." The rules as written do not support your claims, as many people have pointed out. And you have not provided any evidence to back your claims.
Every one of the races you mentioned specifically state that their natural weapons can be used to make unarmed strikes. Monster natural weapons do not have this feature (maybe some do, I'm not going to check all). If they were not exceptions to a rule, they wouldn't need to state the exception.
I see this commonly misunderstood. A couple of points on how this works with RAW:
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