But, again, how the other side chooses to play shouldn’t be an issue to you.
Many DMs don’t like the idea of being harassed by players who have been told it is okay to go off RAW. I think they’ve got just as much a point as you do.
Again, you are missing my point and I already agreed with you on yours. I don't care if he wants to ignore the rules. I have seen many reject rules that they find inconvenient. The point is to inform others reading this thread that it is WITHIN the rules to allow metal-wearing druids. Correcting misinformation is important, I'm sure you know.
Again, you are missing my point and I already agreed with you on yours. I don't care if he wants to ignore the rules. I have seen many reject rules that they find inconvenient. The point is to inform others reading this thread that it is WITHIN the rules to allow metal-wearing druids. Correcting misinformation is important, I'm sure you know.
That is your opinion.
Everyone I have played with is of the opinion the ""Druids will not wear metal armor" means that metal wearing druids is not within the rules. Of course if a player wants to play a metal wearing druid they can ask their DM but they should not be a presumption that it is within the rules.
Even if the rules do not say a druid can not wear armor. The rules are silent on what happens if they do. This does not mean there is no consequences it is up to the DM.
There are a lot of things that the rules are silent on but everyone understands what is intended. The rules say of the Visage of the Astral self "The spectral visage covers your face like a helmet or mask. You determine its appearance." Can you make it appear like a medusa's head, sure, does that mean the monk can petrify people by looking at them? The rules are silent but most DMs would say no. A player wanting their Astral monk to do so and demanding it is within the rules is likely to be unpopular with the rest of the table.
Other area where the rules are silent will have DMs decide what happens in different ways. Lets say a fighter with rules on jumping says they can cover a distance of up to 60ft and that each fot covers costs a foot of movement. The fighter however only has 15ft of movement left. Do they fall if they end the turn in the middle of a jump over a canyon? Are they "frozen" there as the camera moves to a different character with them continueing the jump at the start of their next turn? Does something else happen entirely? Similalry if they make a high jump do they take fall damage if they jump over a 15ft fence?
D&D relies on a level of trust between the layers and the DM (and between the players for that matter). The DM is the arbitor of the rules and while some rules (like a 2nd level fighter can take an additional action on their turn once per short rest) are very clear and unless the DM specifically says "fighters can not action surge" the players can expect that they can. The fact that many people on this thread say the rules say / imply that metal wearing druids are not allowed means at least that the issue is up for debate and the player would needs to ask the DM their interpretation of the rules.
The idea that it is within the rules for druids to wear metal armor in one possible interpretation. No one here is likely to stop you from choosing that interpretation.
I get the sense that you have not been tracking this thread very well. I will summarize for you so you can make arguments directed at me that are appropriate.
It was stated that druids wearing metal was homebrew and against the rules of the game.
It was pointed out that the PHB states that druids do not wear metal armor, not that they cannot, which logically implies a decision. A decision means that there is an alternative option than what is listed in the PHB.
This point was argued against on philosophical grounds, which was countered as a self-defeating argument, as no philosophy is univocal or universally accepted. It was also noted that Sage Advice specifically acknowledges this choice (i.e. not an interpretation).
It was then argued that this permitted use of metal armor, would not be allowed in organized play.
This was countered with the observed fact that DDAL uses Sage Advice, which again, states very plainly that a druid can wear metal armor. In game, only druidic taboo prevents it, so the decision is placed in the DM's hands to make the final call.
In conclusion, DMs would be empowered with the knowledge that they can allow metal wearing druids and still be within the rules, be it in a private game or organized play. If a DM wishes to deny a player the option, they would be supported by the rules with this decision, but they would also be supported by the rules if they permit it.
Now that you are caught up, I hope this will help you engage my actual arguments, if your goal is to debate me on this issue. So far, you have absolutely not been.
Again, you are missing my point and I already agreed with you on yours. I don't care if he wants to ignore the rules. I have seen many reject rules that they find inconvenient. The point is to inform others reading this thread that it is WITHIN the rules to allow metal-wearing druids. Correcting misinformation is important, I'm sure you know.
That is your opinion.
[screed]
Sage Advice being official rulings of the game is not an opinion, but a fact. It outright says so in the text here, in case you missed it.
I haven’t looked into Sage Advice in many years and, so, I may be way out of date, but it is my understanding that Sage Advice is a Q&A website. Sage Advice Compendium draws from those Q&A. SAC is a subset of SA.
I haven’t looked into Sage Advice in many years and, so, I may be way out of date, but it is my understanding that Sage Advice is a Q&A website. Sage Advice Compendium draws from those Q&A. SAC is a subset of SA.
That's alright. I can hardly judge someone for not knowing a particular thing about 5e. I can fill a book with what I don't know.
These are official rulings of questions regarding D&D 5e. DDAL has stated that Sage Advice is used in DDAL, though it is not required.
Regardless, my argument this entire time (and why I am most baffled that you are trying to take a position against me) is that a DM can permit metal wearing druids if they wish and still be within the rules of the game. My argument is also that a DM can deny a player metal and still be within the rules. My argument has never been that DMs have to allow it. You will not find a single post from me that states that DMs must allow it, here or anywhere else in all the forums.
Again, you are missing my point and I already agreed with you on yours. I don't care if he wants to ignore the rules. I have seen many reject rules that they find inconvenient. The point is to inform others reading this thread that it is WITHIN the rules to allow metal-wearing druids. Correcting misinformation is important, I'm sure you know.
That is your opinion.
[screed]
Sage Advice being official rulings of the game is not an opinion, but a fact. It outright says so in the text here, in case you missed it.
This is the actual relevent test in Sage advice, I did actually reread it before I replied.
"If you want to depart from your class’s story, your DM has the final say on how far you can go and still be considered a member of the class. As long as you abide by your character’s proficiencies, you’re not going to break anything in the game system, but you might undermine the story and the world being created in your campaign."
Again, you are missing my point and I already agreed with you on yours. I don't care if he wants to ignore the rules. I have seen many reject rules that they find inconvenient. The point is to inform others reading this thread that it is WITHIN the rules to allow metal-wearing druids. Correcting misinformation is important, I'm sure you know.
That is your opinion.
[screed]
Sage Advice being official rulings of the game is not an opinion, but a fact. It outright says so in the text here, in case you missed it.
This is the actual relevent test in Sage advice, I did actually reread it before I replied.
"If you want to depart from your class’s story, your DM has the final say on how far you can go and still be considered a member of the class. As long as you abide by your character’s proficiencies, you’re not going to break anything in the game system, but you might undermine the story and the world being created in your campaign."
I think it agrees with what I said.
You stated that it is my opinion that a DM would be within the rules to permit metal-wearing druids. By the text you chose to bold, this proves that you are absolutely wrong in that assertion.
You stated that it is my opinion that a DM would be within the rules to permit metal-wearing druids. By the text you chose to bold, this proves that you are absolutely wrong in that assertion.
It is only my opinion that a DM would be within the rules to permit metal-wearing druids in the sense that it is within the rules for the DM to interpret the rules as they see fit, and that fits with the sage advice..
At the start of the thread I was saying that my interpretation of "druids will not wear metal armor" is that someone who will wear armor is not a druid, however if a player wants to play a metal wearing druid it is up to the DM whether to allow it and if so f their are any consequences.
The OP was insistent that "will not" does not mean "can not" and a few other reasons I didn't really get that meant metal wearing druids were completely within the rules and a DM that bans metal wearing druids is going against RAW.
I then pointed out that there are some area where the rules are silent. They often say what you can do, they sometimes say what you can not do but what if you want to do something that is neither. Some of these almost every table would agree on. My example was from 2nd level fighter can take an additional action on their turn once per short rest, the rules do not say the fighter can take an additional action on someone else's turn but it doesn't say they can't (but everyone assumes they can't), some of these gaps in the rules different DMs will treat different ways.
The rules are silent on what happens if a druid wears metal armor, I along with many people on this thread believe that is becasue it can not happen. The OP believes that means druids can wear metal armor without consequence. As the rules are silent on the issue it is the decision of the DM whether a PC wilingly wearing metal armor is still a druid and that is backed up by Sage Advice.
You stated that it is my opinion that a DM would be within the rules to permit metal-wearing druids. By the text you chose to bold, this proves that you are absolutely wrong in that assertion.
It is only my opinion that a DM would be within the rules to permit metal-wearing druids in the sense that it is within the rules for the DM to interpret the rules as they see fit, and that fits with the sage advice..
At the start of the thread I was saying that my interpretation of "druids will not wear metal armor" is that someone who will wear armor is not a druid, however if a player wants to play a metal wearing druid it is up to the DM whether to allow it and if so f their are any consequences.
The OP was insistent that "will not" does not mean "can not" and a few other reasons I didn't really get that meant metal wearing druids were completely within the rules and a DM that bans metal wearing druids is going against RAW.
I then pointed out that there are some area where the rules are silent. They often say what you can do, they sometimes say what you can not do but what if you want to do something that is neither. Some of these almost every table would agree on. My example was from 2nd level fighter can take an additional action on their turn once per short rest, the rules do not say the fighter can take an additional action on someone else's turn but it doesn't say they can't (but everyone assumes they can't), some of these gaps in the rules different DMs will treat different ways.
The rules are silent on what happens if a druid wears metal armor, I along with many people on this thread believe that is becasue it can not happen. The OP believes that means druids can wear metal armor without consequence. As the rules are silent on the issue it is the decision of the DM whether a PC wilingly wearing metal armor is still a druid and that is backed up by Sage Advice.
It seems to me then, that your argument should not be directed at me, for I have never said or implied a lack of consequence. I am open to there being a 'cause and effect' to a druid donning metal, such as other druids being unwilling to work with the druid PC or whatever. My entire position, and the one which you have been arguing against, is only that it is up to the DM and the rules support the DM's decision either way on whether the player can have a metal-wearing druid.
If you don’t care that I don’t like it, I certainly am under no obligation to care that you don’t like the reality that the rules permit metal-wearing druids in organized play. If you don’t like it, too bad, the rules of organized play explicitly state that it is permitted.
A druid traditionally doesn’t do it, granted. But druids are not a hive mind, philosophy and religion are not univocal, individuals have agency, and the rules that are used in DDAL allow it.
All that mess you wrote is just a rejection of the rules of the game, which is pretty amusing for someone who plays in DDAL.
Bottom line: Sage Advice permits metal-wearing druids if the DM gives the thumbs up. DDAL uses Sage Advice per their own Twitter (X) page. Case closed.
Show us where it's permitted in the rules for organized play.
If you don’t care that I don’t like it, I certainly am under no obligation to care that you don’t like the reality that the rules permit metal-wearing druids in organized play. If you don’t like it, too bad, the rules of organized play explicitly state that it is permitted.
A druid traditionally doesn’t do it, granted. But druids are not a hive mind, philosophy and religion are not univocal, individuals have agency, and the rules that are used in DDAL allow it.
All that mess you wrote is just a rejection of the rules of the game, which is pretty amusing for someone who plays in DDAL.
Bottom line: Sage Advice permits metal-wearing druids if the DM gives the thumbs up. DDAL uses Sage Advice per their own Twitter (X) page. Case closed.
Show us where it's permitted in the rules for organized play.
I haven’t looked into Sage Advice in many years and, so, I may be way out of date, but it is my understanding that Sage Advice is a Q&A website. Sage Advice Compendium draws from those Q&A. SAC is a subset of SA.
That's alright. I can hardly judge someone for not knowing a particular thing about 5e. I can fill a book with what I don't know.
These are official rulings of questions regarding D&D 5e. DDAL has stated that Sage Advice is used in DDAL, though it is not required.
Regardless, my argument this entire time (and why I am most baffled that you are trying to take a position against me) is that a DM can permit metal wearing druids if they wish and still be within the rules of the game. My argument is also that a DM can deny a player metal and still be within the rules. My argument has never been that DMs have to allow it. You will not find a single post from me that states that DMs must allow it, here or anywhere else in all the forums.
I’m not trying to take a point against you.
I’m saying that we can all just each other be.
As for DDAL, it is a specific subset of the game and RAW isn’t very important in it compared to what the administrators of the subset say.
I haven’t looked into Sage Advice in many years and, so, I may be way out of date, but it is my understanding that Sage Advice is a Q&A website. Sage Advice Compendium draws from those Q&A. SAC is a subset of SA.
That's alright. I can hardly judge someone for not knowing a particular thing about 5e. I can fill a book with what I don't know.
These are official rulings of questions regarding D&D 5e. DDAL has stated that Sage Advice is used in DDAL, though it is not required.
Regardless, my argument this entire time (and why I am most baffled that you are trying to take a position against me) is that a DM can permit metal wearing druids if they wish and still be within the rules of the game. My argument is also that a DM can deny a player metal and still be within the rules. My argument has never been that DMs have to allow it. You will not find a single post from me that states that DMs must allow it, here or anywhere else in all the forums.
I’m not trying to take a point against you.
I’m saying that we can all just each other be.
As for DDAL, it is a specific subset of the game and RAW isn’t very important in it compared to what the administrators of the subset say.
I agree. I am a firm believer that it is bad form to tell others how to have fun with D&D. That said, I also believe that there are some DMs who strive to be as close to RAW as possible and they might be saying no to druid players when they would want to actually say yes. My purpose here is to empower those DMs with knowledge.
Drawing a line here. If you want to have a debate. Do so respectfully. I will be cleaning up the thread now. Continued accusations and arguing will result in the thread being locked.
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If you don’t care that I don’t like it, I certainly am under no obligation to care that you don’t like the reality that the rules permit metal-wearing druids in organized play. If you don’t like it, too bad, the rules of organized play explicitly state that it is permitted.
A druid traditionally doesn’t do it, granted. But druids are not a hive mind, philosophy and religion are not univocal, individuals have agency, and the rules that are used in DDAL allow it.
All that mess you wrote is just a rejection of the rules of the game, which is pretty amusing for someone who plays in DDAL.
Bottom line: Sage Advice permits metal-wearing druids if the DM gives the thumbs up. DDAL uses Sage Advice per their own Twitter (X) page. Case closed.
Show us where it's permitted in the rules for organized play.
If you don’t care that I don’t like it, I certainly am under no obligation to care that you don’t like the reality that the rules permit metal-wearing druids in organized play. If you don’t like it, too bad, the rules of organized play explicitly state that it is permitted.
A druid traditionally doesn’t do it, granted. But druids are not a hive mind, philosophy and religion are not univocal, individuals have agency, and the rules that are used in DDAL allow it.
All that mess you wrote is just a rejection of the rules of the game, which is pretty amusing for someone who plays in DDAL.
Bottom line: Sage Advice permits metal-wearing druids if the DM gives the thumbs up. DDAL uses Sage Advice per their own Twitter (X) page. Case closed.
Show us where it's permitted in the rules for organized play.
Can you point to specific passages? A quote of the relevant section, with page citation? Anything at all to shed light on the parenthetical in the PH?
Yes.
For the General, it states on page three that it is up to the DM whether to use Sage Advice. The Forgotten Realms document states on page four that it is up to the DM whether to use Sage Advice.
In both cases, it is an optional tool to help the DM arbitrate specific situations. It is not required for use, which I have been careful to note in this discussion.
If you don’t care that I don’t like it, I certainly am under no obligation to care that you don’t like the reality that the rules permit metal-wearing druids in organized play. If you don’t like it, too bad, the rules of organized play explicitly state that it is permitted.
A druid traditionally doesn’t do it, granted. But druids are not a hive mind, philosophy and religion are not univocal, individuals have agency, and the rules that are used in DDAL allow it.
All that mess you wrote is just a rejection of the rules of the game, which is pretty amusing for someone who plays in DDAL.
Bottom line: Sage Advice permits metal-wearing druids if the DM gives the thumbs up. DDAL uses Sage Advice per their own Twitter (X) page. Case closed.
Show us where it's permitted in the rules for organized play.
Can you point to specific passages? A quote of the relevant section, with page citation? Anything at all to shed light on the parenthetical in the PH?
Yes.
For the General, it states on page three that it is up to the DM whether to use Sage Advice. The Forgotten Realms document states on page four that it is up to the DM whether to use Sage Advice.
In both cases, it is an optional tool to help the DM arbitrate specific situations. It is not required for use, which I have been careful to note in this discussion.
Now hold on just a minute. First, you say DDAL uses SAC. Then you're saying it's an optional tool. So, which is it?
Is your opinion evolving, or are you trying to have your cake and eat it, too. Is your take that a druid should have both metal and non-metal armor? And that depending on who they're playing under depends on what they'll be wearing what session?
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Again, you are missing my point and I already agreed with you on yours. I don't care if he wants to ignore the rules. I have seen many reject rules that they find inconvenient. The point is to inform others reading this thread that it is WITHIN the rules to allow metal-wearing druids. Correcting misinformation is important, I'm sure you know.
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That is your opinion.
Everyone I have played with is of the opinion the ""Druids will not wear metal armor" means that metal wearing druids is not within the rules. Of course if a player wants to play a metal wearing druid they can ask their DM but they should not be a presumption that it is within the rules.
Even if the rules do not say a druid can not wear armor. The rules are silent on what happens if they do. This does not mean there is no consequences it is up to the DM.
There are a lot of things that the rules are silent on but everyone understands what is intended. The rules say of the Visage of the Astral self "The spectral visage covers your face like a helmet or mask. You determine its appearance." Can you make it appear like a medusa's head, sure, does that mean the monk can petrify people by looking at them? The rules are silent but most DMs would say no. A player wanting their Astral monk to do so and demanding it is within the rules is likely to be unpopular with the rest of the table.
Other area where the rules are silent will have DMs decide what happens in different ways. Lets say a fighter with rules on jumping says they can cover a distance of up to 60ft and that each fot covers costs a foot of movement. The fighter however only has 15ft of movement left. Do they fall if they end the turn in the middle of a jump over a canyon? Are they "frozen" there as the camera moves to a different character with them continueing the jump at the start of their next turn? Does something else happen entirely? Similalry if they make a high jump do they take fall damage if they jump over a 15ft fence?
D&D relies on a level of trust between the layers and the DM (and between the players for that matter). The DM is the arbitor of the rules and while some rules (like a 2nd level fighter can take an additional action on their turn once per short rest) are very clear and unless the DM specifically says "fighters can not action surge" the players can expect that they can. The fact that many people on this thread say the rules say / imply that metal wearing druids are not allowed means at least that the issue is up for debate and the player would needs to ask the DM their interpretation of the rules.
I get the sense that you have not been tracking this thread very well. I will summarize for you so you can make arguments directed at me that are appropriate.
It was stated that druids wearing metal was homebrew and against the rules of the game.
It was pointed out that the PHB states that druids do not wear metal armor, not that they cannot, which logically implies a decision. A decision means that there is an alternative option than what is listed in the PHB.
This point was argued against on philosophical grounds, which was countered as a self-defeating argument, as no philosophy is univocal or universally accepted. It was also noted that Sage Advice specifically acknowledges this choice (i.e. not an interpretation).
It was then argued that this permitted use of metal armor, would not be allowed in organized play.
This was countered with the observed fact that DDAL uses Sage Advice, which again, states very plainly that a druid can wear metal armor. In game, only druidic taboo prevents it, so the decision is placed in the DM's hands to make the final call.
In conclusion, DMs would be empowered with the knowledge that they can allow metal wearing druids and still be within the rules, be it in a private game or organized play. If a DM wishes to deny a player the option, they would be supported by the rules with this decision, but they would also be supported by the rules if they permit it.
Now that you are caught up, I hope this will help you engage my actual arguments, if your goal is to debate me on this issue. So far, you have absolutely not been.
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Sage Advice being official rulings of the game is not an opinion, but a fact. It outright says so in the text here, in case you missed it.
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I haven’t looked into Sage Advice in many years and, so, I may be way out of date, but it is my understanding that Sage Advice is a Q&A website. Sage Advice Compendium draws from those Q&A. SAC is a subset of SA.
That's alright. I can hardly judge someone for not knowing a particular thing about 5e. I can fill a book with what I don't know.
These are official rulings of questions regarding D&D 5e. DDAL has stated that Sage Advice is used in DDAL, though it is not required.
Regardless, my argument this entire time (and why I am most baffled that you are trying to take a position against me) is that a DM can permit metal wearing druids if they wish and still be within the rules of the game. My argument is also that a DM can deny a player metal and still be within the rules. My argument has never been that DMs have to allow it. You will not find a single post from me that states that DMs must allow it, here or anywhere else in all the forums.
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This is the actual relevent test in Sage advice, I did actually reread it before I replied.
"If you want to depart from your class’s story, your DM has the final say on how far you can go and still be considered a member of the class. As long as you abide by your character’s proficiencies, you’re not going to break anything in the game system, but you might undermine the story and the world being created in your campaign."
I think it agrees with what I said.
You stated that it is my opinion that a DM would be within the rules to permit metal-wearing druids. By the text you chose to bold, this proves that you are absolutely wrong in that assertion.
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It is only my opinion that a DM would be within the rules to permit metal-wearing druids in the sense that it is within the rules for the DM to interpret the rules as they see fit, and that fits with the sage advice..
At the start of the thread I was saying that my interpretation of "druids will not wear metal armor" is that someone who will wear armor is not a druid, however if a player wants to play a metal wearing druid it is up to the DM whether to allow it and if so f their are any consequences.
The OP was insistent that "will not" does not mean "can not" and a few other reasons I didn't really get that meant metal wearing druids were completely within the rules and a DM that bans metal wearing druids is going against RAW.
I then pointed out that there are some area where the rules are silent. They often say what you can do, they sometimes say what you can not do but what if you want to do something that is neither. Some of these almost every table would agree on. My example was from 2nd level fighter can take an additional action on their turn once per short rest, the rules do not say the fighter can take an additional action on someone else's turn but it doesn't say they can't (but everyone assumes they can't), some of these gaps in the rules different DMs will treat different ways.
The rules are silent on what happens if a druid wears metal armor, I along with many people on this thread believe that is becasue it can not happen. The OP believes that means druids can wear metal armor without consequence. As the rules are silent on the issue it is the decision of the DM whether a PC wilingly wearing metal armor is still a druid and that is backed up by Sage Advice.
Sooooo, can't want until the new rules come out to finally put all this metal rule nonsense in the trash bin of history where it belongs.
I think I will create a druid that wears light metal armor in celebration.
It seems to me then, that your argument should not be directed at me, for I have never said or implied a lack of consequence. I am open to there being a 'cause and effect' to a druid donning metal, such as other druids being unwilling to work with the druid PC or whatever. My entire position, and the one which you have been arguing against, is only that it is up to the DM and the rules support the DM's decision either way on whether the player can have a metal-wearing druid.
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Agreed and way ahead of you. Roughly half a year ago, I gave one of my players a warforged druid to play and he was over the moon. :P
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Show us where it's permitted in the rules for organized play.
Sure.
How it applies generally here
and for Forgotten Realms specifically: here.
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I’m not trying to take a point against you.
I’m saying that we can all just each other be.
As for DDAL, it is a specific subset of the game and RAW isn’t very important in it compared to what the administrators of the subset say.
I agree. I am a firm believer that it is bad form to tell others how to have fun with D&D. That said, I also believe that there are some DMs who strive to be as close to RAW as possible and they might be saying no to druid players when they would want to actually say yes. My purpose here is to empower those DMs with knowledge.
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ModeratorDrawing a line here. If you want to have a debate. Do so respectfully. I will be cleaning up the thread now. Continued accusations and arguing will result in the thread being locked.
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Can you point to specific passages? A quote of the relevant section, with page citation? Anything at all to shed light on the parenthetical in the PH?
Yes.
For the General, it states on page three that it is up to the DM whether to use Sage Advice. The Forgotten Realms document states on page four that it is up to the DM whether to use Sage Advice.
In both cases, it is an optional tool to help the DM arbitrate specific situations. It is not required for use, which I have been careful to note in this discussion.
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Now hold on just a minute. First, you say DDAL uses SAC. Then you're saying it's an optional tool. So, which is it?
Is your opinion evolving, or are you trying to have your cake and eat it, too. Is your take that a druid should have both metal and non-metal armor? And that depending on who they're playing under depends on what they'll be wearing what session?