I haven't read all 16 pages, forgive me if this has already come up time and time again. Just want to throw out a bit of a cheeky 2 cents -
Beyond religious / cultural reasons, Druids might also not wear metal armor because they have firsthand experience in how devastating heat metal can be upon those that do. Maybe it's in part as simple as a "No capes" type situation where one too many victims of Heat Metal / Call Lightning / whatever have disabused them of the notion that it's "superior".
I haven't read all 16 pages, forgive me if this has already come up time and time again. Just want to throw out a bit of a cheeky 2 cents -
Beyond religious / cultural reasons, Druids might also not wear metal armor because they have firsthand experience in how devastating heat metal can be upon those that do. Maybe it's in part as simple as a "No capes" type situation where one too many victims of Heat Metal / Call Lightning / whatever have disabused them of the notion that it's "superior".
You may be on the right track.
The spell heat metal made its debut in Supplement 3: Eldritch Wizardry (1976), as a 2nd-level druid spell, and was later reprinted in the Player's Handbook (1978). It's also worth noting that, back then, there were only allowed to be a finite number of druids in the world at any given time. Heck, I don't think you actually earned the title of druid until you were around 9th-level. In order to go up the ranks and continue gaining levels, you would have to battle another, higher-ranked druid in single combat. This could prove fatal, so a prohibition on metal armor to prevent certain fire and lightning spells from giving one side an advantage makes sense.
As I stated before, the taboo can exist for any number of reasons. Even if something is no longer part of the rules, a tradition can still be alive and well. The limitation is an exercise to practice world-building. Accept the conceit, that druids choose not to wear metal armor, and use that to come up with a reason why. Breathe a little lift into your game.
There are two ways I suggest to manage the penalties of the rule.
Proficiencies
Armor: Light armor, medium armor, shields (druids will not wear armor or use shields made of metal)
The first is the easiest. Because the statement that they will not wear armor/shields made of metal falls under the proficiency section, then you should simply use the proficiency rules. If you wear metal armor then you suffer non proficiency penalties. While the wording is awkward and different the adjudication is simple.
The second is the hardest. If it is truly a character class role playing preference that is immutable then it presents itself probably most similar to the Paladin's vows. Breaking a Paladin's vow does not have a set mechanical penalty, but has a number of suggestions. Any of these suggestions could work as a way to penalize and atone should a druid get forced to wear metal armor. So in this case the mechanics much like with the vow is a role playing feature really left to the DM and player.
-------------------------
But we don't have 16 pages of comments here because people don't know how to adjudicate what to do if the druid is captured and forced to wear metal armor against their will. There are 16 pages of comments because there are people who want to play druids and wear metal armor. Some have honest role playing reasons, some just want to maximize armor class, some don't like having these choices taken away, and some want to multiclass a druid but it ruins their armor choices making the multiclass unworkable. We also have 16 pages because people would like to discuss what the rule SHOULD be or how it would be better stated.
I am for simply stating that Druid's are only proficient in non metal armor and shields. That is just me. There doesn't need to be a remedy or dragon scale for everyone, or bullette breastplate on every corner store. Dex+shield+studded provides a very reasonable AC. The game is fine.
studded leather also uses metal, so that option is also out...
That sort of proves the point that Giant Octopodes and I raised earlier: Forge clerics aren't going to be dueling each other in the temple for the position of high priest (are they?)... seems like the god probably just wants to choose their favorite and have everybody else get back to work. By contrast, druids don't usually answer directly to any authority and much like nature they compete amongst themselves, sometimes to the death. I imagine druids pranking each other with heat metal and continual flame all the time. It also occurs to me that while a druid can escape Heat Metal by wildshaping and leaving their armor behind, a cleric is in prime position to defeat it the old fashioned way (breaking concentration notwithstanding): go stand in water for half damage if possible, then just keep dumping healing spells until the duration runs out. It's not pretty but it may barely get you there. If it's your buddy you can just let them drop to 0 then bring them back to 1 over and over. In fact bringing people back to 1 hp over and over with healing word is probably a mandatory and reviled cleric 101 course (good news is you probably won't be on the receiving end ever again after the class). I also JUST realized how nice Magic Initiate is on druid just for Mage Armor. Throw it on yourself before wildshaping or on snakes spiders fliers cats and dogs horses and raptors, not to mention giant apes and elementals, and enjoy the concentration free results for 8 hours.
I haven't read all 16 pages, forgive me if this has already come up time and time again. Just want to throw out a bit of a cheeky 2 cents -
Beyond religious / cultural reasons, Druids might also not wear metal armor because they have firsthand experience in how devastating heat metal can be upon those that do. Maybe it's in part as simple as a "No capes" type situation where one too many victims of Heat Metal / Call Lightning / whatever have disabused them of the notion that it's "superior".
You may be on the right track.
The spell heat metal made its debut in Supplement 3: Eldritch Wizardry (1976), as a 2nd-level druid spell, and was later reprinted in the Player's Handbook (1978). It's also worth noting that, back then, there were only allowed to be a finite number of druids in the world at any given time. Heck, I don't think you actually earned the title of druid until you were around 9th-level. In order to go up the ranks and continue gaining levels, you would have to battle another, higher-ranked druid in single combat. This could prove fatal, so a prohibition on metal armor to prevent certain fire and lightning spells from giving one side an advantage makes sense.
As I stated before, the taboo can exist for any number of reasons. Even if something is no longer part of the rules, a tradition can still be alive and well. The limitation is an exercise to practice world-building. Accept the conceit, that druids choose not to wear metal armor, and use that to come up with a reason why. Breathe a little lift into your game.
There are a lot of problems with that hypothesis.
Since druids were first introduced as NPCs in 1974 (two years prior), and since druids as playable class probably had their restrictions created PRIOR to the creation of the unique spells on their spell list (it is not logical that they made up a spell and then decided that they needed to protect the class from one of their own unique spells), it seems exceedingly unlikely that this little conceit is the justification for the restriction - especially considering the fact druids are not prohibited from using metal weapons that would of course also be the target of a heat metal spell.
Then there is the very likely result of druid combat being shape change so avoiding this trivial spell would be a rather easy option for a druid to overcome, even if they were wearing metal armor.
Add to this is the fact that this armor restriction FAR OUTLIVED the concept of druid combat to get promoted. That bit of silliness last only through 1st Edition if I recall so even if it was based on avoiding heat metal during such an event, it should have also died when that little bit of lore also died - just like the racial restrictions on who could be a druid (humans, half-elves, and halflings) also died.
1st Edition's focus on class balance ranked somewhere below avoiding racial tropes so I also doubt that this was about anything other than giving the class some "nature" flavor. My money is on One DnD ending this or at least bringing back a mechanic for when it is violated (like there used to be).
My plate armor is made of bone because I say so and the item description doesn't say what it is made out of.
Did the bone pieces grow into the shapes of the plates of the armor? Were the bone pieces cut into to bring them into the plate armour shapes? Is the bone magically strong or is there another reason why (even in it's uncustomized form) the bone has strength equivalent to the quality metals used for plate armor?
Otherwise, plate: "Plate consists of shaped, interlocking metal plates to cover the entire body. ..."
My plate armor is made of bone because I say so and the item description doesn't say what it is made out of.
Did the bone pieces grow into the shapes of the plates of the armor? Were the bone pieces cut into to bring them into the plate armour shapes? Is the bone magically strong or is there another reason why (even in it's uncustomized form) the bone has strength equivalent to the quality metals used for plate armor?
Otherwise, plate: "Plate consists of shaped, interlocking metal plates to cover the entire body. ..."
The only problem with that is DNDBeyond gives the 'generic' interpretation of "Plate" not allowing it to be changed, but it can be. You can have something with the same AC as Plate, but not made out of interlocking metal plates - but want to homebrew something like this bone 'plate' - it can very easily be made out of bone, reinforced strong enough to make it the same AC as Plate, the only other way is to add say 'leather' armor and bump up the AC bonus or something, but then that says it is leather. Bone studded leather works, and adding 'magic +
to ac.
Just because the wording isn't allowed to be changed doesn't change the fact that Dungeon and Dragons is a fantasy world, where someone can make this cool armor out of bones - and it is 100% allowed (per DM's ruling) so the 'nit picky' of 'interlocking metal' is just that, and luckily not a DM I play for.
My plate armor is made of bone because I say so and the item description doesn't say what it is made out of.
Did the bone pieces grow into the shapes of the plates of the armor? Were the bone pieces cut into to bring them into the plate armour shapes? Is the bone magically strong or is there another reason why (even in it's uncustomized form) the bone has strength equivalent to the quality metals used for plate armor?
Otherwise, plate: "Plate consists of shaped, interlocking metal plates to cover the entire body. ..."
The only problem with that is DNDBeyond gives the 'generic' interpretation of "Plate" not allowing it to be changed, but it can be.
DnDBeyond doesn't care. DnDBeyond does not restrict druids from wearing plate.
My plate armor is made of bone because I say so and the item description doesn't say what it is made out of.
Did the bone pieces grow into the shapes of the plates of the armor? Were the bone pieces cut into to bring them into the plate armour shapes? Is the bone magically strong or is there another reason why (even in it's uncustomized form) the bone has strength equivalent to the quality metals used for plate armor?
Otherwise, plate: "Plate consists of shaped, interlocking metal plates to cover the entire body. ..."
The only problem with that is DNDBeyond gives the 'generic' interpretation of "Plate" not allowing it to be changed, but it can be.
DnDBeyond doesn't care. DnDBeyond does not restrict druids from wearing plate.
Make ya wonder, right? ;)
Yeah, but I was specifically speaking on the 'plate mail' being made with bones instead - but yeah I wear what I want to wear and every DM I have had is fine, only one was a little pushing back of me wearing a breastplate, but then I just said it wasn't made of metal? and he said yeah that makes sense hahah
My plate armor is made of bone because I say so and the item description doesn't say what it is made out of.
Did the bone pieces grow into the shapes of the plates of the armor? Were the bone pieces cut into to bring them into the plate armour shapes? Is the bone magically strong or is there another reason why (even in it's uncustomized form) the bone has strength equivalent to the quality metals used for plate armor?
Otherwise, plate: "Plate consists of shaped, interlocking metal plates to cover the entire body. ..."
The only problem with that is DNDBeyond gives the 'generic' interpretation of "Plate" not allowing it to be changed, but it can be.
DnDBeyond doesn't care. DnDBeyond does not restrict druids from wearing plate.
Make ya wonder, right? ;)
Yeah, but I was specifically speaking on the 'plate mail' being made with bones instead - but yeah I wear what I want to wear and every DM I have had is fine, only one was a little pushing back of me wearing a breastplate, but then I just said it wasn't made of metal? and he said yeah that makes sense hahah
And sometimes DMs do things according to what they are led to believe by players or otherwise choose to deviate from the rules but, RAW, a breastplate "consists of a fitted metal chest piece".
In a DM's fantasy world, it might be homebrewed that a material like bone (or leather for that matter) could be as strong as an engineering-grade material like steel but, in the real world, materials like dried bone (old leaves and anything similar) are considerably weaker. That's why people used steel.
If a player really wanted their druid to wear metal armor, I'd still be open to this but I'd still take note of any extent that each player deviated from the rules. Personally, I'd hope to see a role-played rationale for the choice.
In some ways I think that a Druid that only wore non-animal-based materials also makes sense and I'd be open to a druid that wore metal but refused to wear leather - or perhaps just that refused to where skins of animals that didn't die in ways that couldn't have been reasonably prevented - but even here, would a character wear the skin of another humanoid/member of their own race?
My plate armor is made of bone because I say so and the item description doesn't say what it is made out of.
Did the bone pieces grow into the shapes of the plates of the armor? Were the bone pieces cut into to bring them into the plate armour shapes? Is the bone magically strong or is there another reason why (even in it's uncustomized form) the bone has strength equivalent to the quality metals used for plate armor?
Otherwise, plate: "Plate consists of shaped, interlocking metal plates to cover the entire body. ..."
The only problem with that is DNDBeyond gives the 'generic' interpretation of "Plate" not allowing it to be changed, but it can be.
DnDBeyond doesn't care. DnDBeyond does not restrict druids from wearing plate.
Make ya wonder, right? ;)
DnDBeyond doesn't legislate on every aspect of the rules and leaves this down to DMs and players. DnDBeyond does not restrict wizards, monks and a range of other classes from wearing plate.
There are a lot of things we all wonder as we all work toward our personal responses to the game.
I haven't read all 16 pages, forgive me if this has already come up time and time again. Just want to throw out a bit of a cheeky 2 cents -
Beyond religious / cultural reasons, Druids might also not wear metal armor because they have firsthand experience in how devastating heat metal can be upon those that do. Maybe it's in part as simple as a "No capes" type situation where one too many victims of Heat Metal / Call Lightning / whatever have disabused them of the notion that it's "superior".
You may be on the right track.
The spell heat metal made its debut in Supplement 3: Eldritch Wizardry (1976), as a 2nd-level druid spell, and was later reprinted in the Player's Handbook (1978). It's also worth noting that, back then, there were only allowed to be a finite number of druids in the world at any given time. Heck, I don't think you actually earned the title of druid until you were around 9th-level. In order to go up the ranks and continue gaining levels, you would have to battle another, higher-ranked druid in single combat. This could prove fatal, so a prohibition on metal armor to prevent certain fire and lightning spells from giving one side an advantage makes sense.
As I stated before, the taboo can exist for any number of reasons. Even if something is no longer part of the rules, a tradition can still be alive and well. The limitation is an exercise to practice world-building. Accept the conceit, that druids choose not to wear metal armor, and use that to come up with a reason why. Breathe a little lift into your game.
Why is this being discussed here? It seems that any player who wants their PC Druid to wear metal armor needs to be talking to their GM, not here.
I mean, am I wrong?
studded leather also uses metal, so that option is also out...
Just add the Ironwood spell to your campaign world. Problem solved.
That sort of proves the point that Giant Octopodes and I raised earlier: Forge clerics aren't going to be dueling each other in the temple for the position of high priest (are they?)... seems like the god probably just wants to choose their favorite and have everybody else get back to work. By contrast, druids don't usually answer directly to any authority and much like nature they compete amongst themselves, sometimes to the death. I imagine druids pranking each other with heat metal and continual flame all the time. It also occurs to me that while a druid can escape Heat Metal by wildshaping and leaving their armor behind, a cleric is in prime position to defeat it the old fashioned way (breaking concentration notwithstanding): go stand in water for half damage if possible, then just keep dumping healing spells until the duration runs out. It's not pretty but it may barely get you there. If it's your buddy you can just let them drop to 0 then bring them back to 1 over and over. In fact bringing people back to 1 hp over and over with healing word is probably a mandatory and reviled cleric 101 course (good news is you probably won't be on the receiving end ever again after the class).
I also JUST realized how nice Magic Initiate is on druid just for Mage Armor. Throw it on yourself before wildshaping or on snakes spiders fliers cats and dogs horses and raptors, not to mention giant apes and elementals, and enjoy the concentration free results for 8 hours.
There are a lot of problems with that hypothesis.
Since druids were first introduced as NPCs in 1974 (two years prior), and since druids as playable class probably had their restrictions created PRIOR to the creation of the unique spells on their spell list (it is not logical that they made up a spell and then decided that they needed to protect the class from one of their own unique spells), it seems exceedingly unlikely that this little conceit is the justification for the restriction - especially considering the fact druids are not prohibited from using metal weapons that would of course also be the target of a heat metal spell.
Then there is the very likely result of druid combat being shape change so avoiding this trivial spell would be a rather easy option for a druid to overcome, even if they were wearing metal armor.
Add to this is the fact that this armor restriction FAR OUTLIVED the concept of druid combat to get promoted. That bit of silliness last only through 1st Edition if I recall so even if it was based on avoiding heat metal during such an event, it should have also died when that little bit of lore also died - just like the racial restrictions on who could be a druid (humans, half-elves, and halflings) also died.
1st Edition's focus on class balance ranked somewhere below avoiding racial tropes so I also doubt that this was about anything other than giving the class some "nature" flavor. My money is on One DnD ending this or at least bringing back a mechanic for when it is violated (like there used to be).
My plate armor is made of bone because I say so and the item description doesn't say what it is made out of.
Did the bone pieces grow into the shapes of the plates of the armor? Were the bone pieces cut into to bring them into the plate armour shapes? Is the bone magically strong or is there another reason why (even in it's uncustomized form) the bone has strength equivalent to the quality metals used for plate armor?
Otherwise, plate: "Plate consists of shaped, interlocking metal plates to cover the entire body. ..."
interesting. that entire first sentence was not there yesterday.
17 pages now?YEEESH put bluntly - if your playing in my world you will abide by my interpretation, if I’m playing in your world I’ll abide by yours.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
It was not where? The sentence has been in the Player's Handbook from the beginning.
The only problem with that is DNDBeyond gives the 'generic' interpretation of "Plate" not allowing it to be changed, but it can be. You can have something with the same AC as Plate, but not made out of interlocking metal plates - but want to homebrew something like this bone 'plate' - it can very easily be made out of bone, reinforced strong enough to make it the same AC as Plate, the only other way is to add say 'leather' armor and bump up the AC bonus or something, but then that says it is leather. Bone studded leather works, and adding 'magic +
to ac.
Just because the wording isn't allowed to be changed doesn't change the fact that Dungeon and Dragons is a fantasy world, where someone can make this cool armor out of bones - and it is 100% allowed (per DM's ruling) so the 'nit picky' of 'interlocking metal' is just that, and luckily not a DM I play for.
DnDBeyond doesn't care. DnDBeyond does not restrict druids from wearing plate.
Make ya wonder, right? ;)
Yeah, but I was specifically speaking on the 'plate mail' being made with bones instead - but yeah I wear what I want to wear and every DM I have had is fine, only one was a little pushing back of me wearing a breastplate, but then I just said it wasn't made of metal? and he said yeah that makes sense hahah
And sometimes DMs do things according to what they are led to believe by players or otherwise choose to deviate from the rules but, RAW, a breastplate "consists of a fitted metal chest piece".
In a DM's fantasy world, it might be homebrewed that a material like bone (or leather for that matter) could be as strong as an engineering-grade material like steel but, in the real world, materials like dried bone (old leaves and anything similar) are considerably weaker. That's why people used steel.
If a player really wanted their druid to wear metal armor, I'd still be open to this but I'd still take note of any extent that each player deviated from the rules. Personally, I'd hope to see a role-played rationale for the choice.
In some ways I think that a Druid that only wore non-animal-based materials also makes sense and I'd be open to a druid that wore metal but refused to wear leather - or perhaps just that refused to where skins of animals that didn't die in ways that couldn't have been reasonably prevented - but even here, would a character wear the skin of another humanoid/member of their own race?
DnDBeyond doesn't legislate on every aspect of the rules and leaves this down to DMs and players. DnDBeyond does not restrict wizards, monks and a range of other classes from wearing plate.
There are a lot of things we all wonder as we all work toward our personal responses to the game.
I don’t see why they can’t, it doesn’t specify that you can’t so I assume so.
Pointy hats Druid can
watch till the end to see what I mean.
MY INFO
I love pointy hats videos there really helpful!
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