OK, I didn't search as thoroughly as I could've so maybe this is covered.
I have a gnome fighter who after 2nd level has decided to take up wizardry. He has a natural knack for it, and the party has recovered 3 spell books that nobody is using. So he becomes a Fighter 2 / Wizard 1.
Here's my question. Action Surge gives a 2nd action. Since an action can be "Cast a Spell" can he cast TWO spells in one round? Sounds pretty cool, right? But of course it is limited to once per short rest so it's not over powered. But a nice perk for hitting the books and being willing to nerd out and take one for the team, no?
1) is this according to the rules 2) are there other limits about only being able to cast a cantrip and a spell in one round? I think I saw that on Critical Role or something ;-)
Here's my question. Action Surge gives a 2nd action. Since an action can be "Cast a Spell" can he cast TWO spells in one round?
Yes. There's no rule against that. Just mind the bonus action spell rule; if you cast a bonus action spell at any point your spell choices during that turn are limited to cantrips with a casting time of 1 action.
Here's my question. Action Surge gives a 2nd action. Since an action can be "Cast a Spell" can he cast TWO spells in one round?
Yes. There's no rule against that. Just mind the bonus action spell rule; if you cast a bonus action spell at any point your spell choices during that turn are limited to cantrips with a casting time of 1 action.
Just to check on something a bit pedantic. If you cast a Bonus Action spell, that would put a limit on a cantrip on 1 of your Actions, not the Action Surge action. Correct?
You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
Unfortunately, if you cast a spell as a bonus action, the only spell you could cast with an Action Surge during the same turn is a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
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This brings up an interesting thought for Eldritch Knight as well. Or any caster with fighter levels. So, if I understand correctly, you can cast a spell, action surge, cast another spell, and if you have a cantrip with a bonus action casting time you can do that as well? Wait, doesn't action surge use your BA?
1) Action Surge does not use your bonus action. A bonus action is its own type of action in D&D. You have action, bonus action, move, and one free object interaction during your turn. The Action Surge gives you an additional action.
2) If you cast a cantrip as a bonus action, this also has the same restriction of making it so that the only other spell you can cast during your turn is another cantrip with a casting time of 1 action. It is a common house rule to make it so that the other spell could be a leveled spell with a casting time of 1 action.
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That makes sense. No more than 2 spells in a round basically.
You can do a max of 4 spells per round (only 3 in 1 turn though). If you cast a spell as a BA, you can only cast cantrips as an action, but that is still 2 more spells (cantrips) with action surge (3 total). After your turn, you can cast reaction spells again. So that can be 4 spells per round.
1 or 2 spells per round is far more typical though.
That's if you ready a spell for your reaction. If you have Warcaster you can cast a spell for an Attack of Opportunity Reaction. Or a Reaction cast time spell like Counterspell.
So the Bonus Action spell - Action spell - Action Surge spell and Reaction spell (on a different turn) would be possible.
That's if you ready a spell for your reaction. If you have Warcaster you can cast a spell for an Attack of Opportunity Reaction. Or a Reaction cast time spell like Counterspell.
So the Bonus Action spell - Action spell - Action Surge spell and Reaction spell (on a different turn) would be possible.
I was responding to a question somebody asked and then deleted about whether readying a spell is a loophole.
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Even though I don't always agree with SA, it contradicts the BA spell, cantrips for the rest of your turn rule. Search Action Surge on the pdf and see for yourself.
Even though I don't always agree with SA, it contradicts the BA spell, cantrips for the rest of your turn rule. Search Action Surge on the pdf and see for yourself.
If you cast a spell, such as healing word, with a bonus action, you can cast another spell with your action, but that other spell must be a cantrip. Keep in mind that this partic-ular limit is specific to spells that use a bonus action. For instance, if you cast a second spell using Action Surge, you aren’t limited to casting a cantrip with it.
This means that if you cast a spell with your action and use action surge, you are not limited to using cantrips with the second action. If you cast a spell with your bonus action, you are limited to only cantrips with your action. If you cast a spell with your bonus action and use action surge, you are limited to cantrips with both of your actions, using action surge does not lift the limitation.
Everyone knows you can cast 2 non cantrip spells on your action and with action surge. My reading of this is that action surge is not affected by having cast a BA spell and cantrip previous to it. If this was not the case, there would be no need to mention the cantrip limitation at all in the last line.
I think this is a case of specific rules beating general rules. Given that Action Surge doesn't change the way spellcasting works, it stands to reason that a bonus action spell still limits your action surge to a cantrip during the same turn.
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Even though I don't always agree with SA, it contradicts the BA spell, cantrips for the rest of your turn rule. Search Action Surge on the pdf and see for yourself.
I had no idea what you were talking about or why, so I searched SA like you said. I still dont know why you brought it up but I do see the cause of your confusion:
If you cast a spell, such as healing word, with a bonus action, you can cast another spell with your action, but that other spell must be a cantrip. Keep in mind that this particular limit is specific to spells that use a bonus action. For instance, if you cast a second spell using Action Surge, you aren’t limited to casting a cantrip with it.
This is specifically saying that as long as you don't cast a BA spell, then you can cast 2 leveled spells in a turn using action.
Everyone knows you can cast 2 non cantrip spells on your action and with action surge. My reading of this is that action surge is not affected by having cast a BA spell and cantrip previous to it. If this was not the case, there would be no need to mention the cantrip limitation at all in the last line.
The existence of this thread proves that the first part of that is not true. The statement in the compendium is that if you cast a second spell with a bonus action, there is a limit, if you cast the second spell in a way that doesn't use a bonus action, there is no limit.
ok ok ok I'm pretty sure I understand this and just want to help anyone in the future. The whole confusion can be fixed by establishing an ARBITRARY POINT FACTOR as followed: if we(for no reason but for the sake of this example) assume that a 1 Action LEVELED Spell takes 6 points and a Bonus Action Spell or Cantrip takes 4 then you can see where Action Surge grants an addition action OR 6 more points. The total amount of "Points" including Action Surge is now 12 points. A character may do EITHER TWO "6 Point" Spells or THREE "4 Point" Spells and CANNOT do a 6 and a 4 point together.
I personally allow for 1 Action Leveled Spell and 1 Bonus Action Spell/Cantrip(otherwise the Cantrip counts as an Action if described as such). So HOMEBREW may allow for the "6 Point" and "4 Point" combination and a player CAN go for the Action Surge but doesn't need to in order to cast 2 spells. (They effectively gain an extra spell cast or Double Cantrips)
So... You can either do 2 Single Action Spells or 1 Bonus Action Spell and use your two Actions for Single Action CANTRIPS.
-----------If you skipped the first paragraph please read it now for clarification on my logic.-------------------
OK, I didn't search as thoroughly as I could've so maybe this is covered.
I have a gnome fighter who after 2nd level has decided to take up wizardry. He has a natural knack for it, and the party has recovered 3 spell books that nobody is using. So he becomes a Fighter 2 / Wizard 1.
Here's my question. Action Surge gives a 2nd action. Since an action can be "Cast a Spell" can he cast TWO spells in one round? Sounds pretty cool, right? But of course it is limited to once per short rest so it's not over powered. But a nice perk for hitting the books and being willing to nerd out and take one for the team, no?
1) is this according to the rules
2) are there other limits about only being able to cast a cantrip and a spell in one round? I think I saw that on Critical Role or something ;-)
I await the forum's font of wisdom.
Yes. There's no rule against that. Just mind the bonus action spell rule; if you cast a bonus action spell at any point your spell choices during that turn are limited to cantrips with a casting time of 1 action.
The cantrip limitation only applies if spells are cast with your bonus action. You can cast 2 leveled spells with actions surge.
Just to check on something a bit pedantic.
If you cast a Bonus Action spell, that would put a limit on a cantrip on 1 of your Actions, not the Action Surge action. Correct?
Unfortunately, if you cast a spell as a bonus action, the only spell you could cast with an Action Surge during the same turn is a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
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This brings up an interesting thought for Eldritch Knight as well. Or any caster with fighter levels. So, if I understand correctly, you can cast a spell, action surge, cast another spell, and if you have a cantrip with a bonus action casting time you can do that as well? Wait, doesn't action surge use your BA?
1) Action Surge does not use your bonus action. A bonus action is its own type of action in D&D. You have action, bonus action, move, and one free object interaction during your turn. The Action Surge gives you an additional action.
2) If you cast a cantrip as a bonus action, this also has the same restriction of making it so that the only other spell you can cast during your turn is another cantrip with a casting time of 1 action. It is a common house rule to make it so that the other spell could be a leveled spell with a casting time of 1 action.
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That makes sense. No more than 2 spells in a round basically.
You can do a max of 4 spells per round (only 3 in 1 turn though). If you cast a spell as a BA, you can only cast cantrips as an action, but that is still 2 more spells (cantrips) with action surge (3 total). After your turn, you can cast reaction spells again. So that can be 4 spells per round.
1 or 2 spells per round is far more typical though.
So the casting has to occur on your own turn.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/combat#Ready
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That's if you ready a spell for your reaction. If you have Warcaster you can cast a spell for an Attack of Opportunity Reaction. Or a Reaction cast time spell like Counterspell.
So the Bonus Action spell - Action spell - Action Surge spell and Reaction spell (on a different turn) would be possible.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
I was responding to a question somebody asked and then deleted about whether readying a spell is a loophole.
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Ah I see. Nevermind then.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Even though I don't always agree with SA, it contradicts the BA spell, cantrips for the rest of your turn rule. Search Action Surge on the pdf and see for yourself.
This means that if you cast a spell with your action and use action surge, you are not limited to using cantrips with the second action. If you cast a spell with your bonus action, you are limited to only cantrips with your action. If you cast a spell with your bonus action and use action surge, you are limited to cantrips with both of your actions, using action surge does not lift the limitation.
Everyone knows you can cast 2 non cantrip spells on your action and with action surge. My reading of this is that action surge is not affected by having cast a BA spell and cantrip previous to it. If this was not the case, there would be no need to mention the cantrip limitation at all in the last line.
I think this is a case of specific rules beating general rules. Given that Action Surge doesn't change the way spellcasting works, it stands to reason that a bonus action spell still limits your action surge to a cantrip during the same turn.
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I had no idea what you were talking about or why, so I searched SA like you said. I still dont know why you brought it up but I do see the cause of your confusion:
This is specifically saying that as long as you don't cast a BA spell, then you can cast 2 leveled spells in a turn using action.
The existence of this thread proves that the first part of that is not true. The statement in the compendium is that if you cast a second spell with a bonus action, there is a limit, if you cast the second spell in a way that doesn't use a bonus action, there is no limit.
ok ok ok I'm pretty sure I understand this and just want to help anyone in the future. The whole confusion can be fixed by establishing an ARBITRARY POINT FACTOR as followed: if we(for no reason but for the sake of this example) assume that a 1 Action LEVELED Spell takes 6 points and a Bonus Action Spell or Cantrip takes 4 then you can see where Action Surge grants an addition action OR 6 more points. The total amount of "Points" including Action Surge is now 12 points. A character may do EITHER TWO "6 Point" Spells or THREE "4 Point" Spells and CANNOT do a 6 and a 4 point together.
I personally allow for 1 Action Leveled Spell and 1 Bonus Action Spell/Cantrip(otherwise the Cantrip counts as an Action if described as such). So HOMEBREW may allow for the "6 Point" and "4 Point" combination and a player CAN go for the Action Surge but doesn't need to in order to cast 2 spells. (They effectively gain an extra spell cast or Double Cantrips)
So... You can either do 2 Single Action Spells or 1 Bonus Action Spell and use your two Actions for Single Action CANTRIPS.
-----------If you skipped the first paragraph please read it now for clarification on my logic.-------------------