I'm currently in a campaign playing as a wild magic sorcerer, and enjoying my choice (currently 3rd level). However, I've heard a number of people say that the sorcerer isn't as good a choice as the wizard.
If you agree, what would you change about the class features and abilities to put the sorcerer on par with Wizards?
My first thought would be to provide more sorcerer points at each level to add to the classes versatility.
When it comes to sorcerers versus wizards, it's mostly an argument of quality versus quantity or rather specialty versus versatility. Because where a wizard has a larger spell selection and loads more spells, a sorcerer has fewer spells but on the flip side can boost them to do crazy things with their metamagics.
Ultimately, though I would think the most general consensus for how to "improve" the sorcerer (in comparison to the wizard or other casters) would simply be to increase their spells known number and give them more sorcery points. The rest I think would take care of itself for the most part.
I've found that you have to be very careful when messing with the Sorcerer because the power of the class has never been an issue. Rather, the player experience can sometimes suffer because of their lack of versatility and difficulty to build in an optimal manner. That is to say, it's easy to build a Sorcerer poorly as compared to other classes. A Cleric can always just prepare different spells, but if a Sorcerer picks spells that don't fit the campaign or don't complement their metamagics, they can have a bad time.
With this said, I favor a few very lightweight changes to the Sorcerer in order to improve the player's experience without drastically altering the power of the class.
I have Sorcerers use the Spell Point variant from the Dungeon Master's Guide. This improves on Font of Magic, giving the Sorcerer the spell slot versatility that I think they always intended. If you compare the conversion ratios of Font of Magic to the Spell Point variant, you'll find that the numbers are the same.
I give Sorcerers additional spells known. I keep it very light, giving one extra spell known at character levels 1, 5, 9, 13, and 17.
I give Sorcerers additional metamagics known, one at level 6 and one at level 14.
These changes grant additional versatility and a unique identity to the class, doubling down on spell slot versatility and adding more metamagic. I like to think that this keeps the Sorcerer balanced while adding a little pizazz.
I'd bump up a list of spells they're able to learn, first and foremost. I kind of dig the idea of that being tied partially to subclasses that the Divine Soul has going for it, so that'd be a decent starting point. Beyond that, with Metamagic its already a potentially powerful subclass with what few spells they do have, so I don't think too much tweaking is necessary.
Finally getting a Melee based subclass that almost all of the other casters have at this point would be nice.
That is to say, it's easy to build a Sorcerer poorly as compared to other classes. A Cleric can always just prepare different spells, but if a Sorcerer picks spells that don't fit the campaign or don't complement their metamagics, they can have a bad time.
This seems a bit fishy. Sorcerers can swap a known spell every time they level up so how do you accidentally screw up a significant portion of your spell list? That'd require making bad spell choices more often than not and then either failing to fix them within 1 level, or replacing them with even more bad choices.
Considering that...
Metamagic is one of the most potent spellcasting class features in the game. Heightened and Twinned Spell literally double the value of a lot of really dangerous spells. Likewise, Subtle Spell protects their panic buttons from Counterspells: Shield, Misty Step, Counterspell, Dispel Magic and Greater Invisibility to name a few.
They're the only full spellcaster with proficiency in Constitution saves (for concentration)
They get an extra cantrip over wizards
Their subclass features are on average much stronger than the Player's Handbook wizard subclasses (though Bladesinging and War Magic give them a run for their money.)
...giving Sorcerers more spells known or metamagic options seems a bit much to me. Versatility is the wizard's niche. I like the suggestion of using spell points though..
Sorcerers just need more subclasses to round them out compared to wizards and clerics. There's still a good chance of Stone, Sea and Phoenix sorcery getting published though.
" I've heard a number of people say that the sorcerer isn't as good a choice as the wizard."
For what?
The sorcerer rides a Harley (without a crash helmet), never finished school, stays out late, swears, drinks neat vodka,carries three flick knives and is known for a fiery temper. His nickname, in contrast is "IceMan."
The wizard is a middle-aged accountant with an interest in family trees, gardening, and etymology. He likes to watch Antiques Roadshow and drives a nissan cashcow which he insists on pronouncing Kash-Kai as though it makes him cooler. He owns an entire set of Encyclopedia Brittanica and has a train set in the attic. If he even had a nick name, it would be "Goose."
Nate "Hellequin" Garrett Vs Gandalf "the Grey"? No contest.
That is to say, it's easy to build a Sorcerer poorly as compared to other classes. A Cleric can always just prepare different spells, but if a Sorcerer picks spells that don't fit the campaign or don't complement their metamagics, they can have a bad time.
This seems a bit fishy. Sorcerers can swap a known spell every time they level up so how do you accidentally screw up a significant portion of your spell list? That'd require making bad spell choices more often than not and then either failing to fix them within 1 level, or replacing them with even more bad choices.
Compare a Sorcerer to a Cleric. At level 4, a Sorcerer will know 5 spells. A Cleric will likely be able to prepare 8 spells, plus their 4 domain spells. A single useless spell means less for the cleric, and even when they do prepare a spell they don't like, they can prepare 8 entirely new spells the next day, let alone the next level. To emphasize: a Cleric can change their entire list every day, while a Sorcerer can change a single spell per level. That can mean months of play with a useless spell and with so few spells known, that hurts the Sorcerer disproportionately - even one useless spell is felt when you only know 5 spells. If you're not fighting any humanoids this arc, then your choice of Hold Person becomes useless. A Cleric or Wizard just swaps it out, but the Sorcerer is stuck with it.
There are additional concerns when making a Sorcerer as well. Each spell choice also needs to complement metamagic choices. Their main class feature is coupled with spell choice in a way that most other classes don't have. This isn't immediately obvious to new players either. Empower doesn't work with Sleep. Twin doesn't work with Scorching Ray. Careful only works on the first save - really, Careful has low synergy with pretty much anything except for Fear and Hypnotic Pattern. Heighten is so expensive that you can only use it once or twice a day. On top of that, picking low-use metamagics can be disastrous. If you pick, say, Distant Spell and Extended Spell, your metamagic is now practically useless, and you can't ever swap it out. You don't even get another choice until level 10, when most campaigns end. Not a lot of classes have trap options like that.
I don't have an issue with the power level of Sorcerers, as I said in my original post. But it's surprisingly easy for new players to make mistakes.
Mostly, the sorcerer's spell list is kinda janked up, and they could use more spell points. Err... sorcery points. Other than that, I think they're fine. I'm even fine with the spells known.
The problem, I feel, comes from the expectation of the sorcerer to be a replacement for the wizard. These are not scholars like wizards, but they're expected to be Arcana experts, and maybe be the ones doing the Knock spells and stuff.
I also think another part of the problem is that I do feel that sorcerer is being treated like the red-headed stepchild of the spellcasting classes by the developers - why does the wizard get a spell designed around scaring people with a dragon... when doing dragon-y things is literally the iconic sorcerer and they don't get said spell? People see that, which paints the sorcerer in a negative light, and from there...
The wizard is a middle-aged accountant with an interest in family trees, gardening, and etymology. He likes to watch Antiques Roadshow and drives a nissan cashcow which he insists on pronouncing Kash-Kai as though it makes him cooler. He owns an entire set of Encyclopedia Brittanica and has a train set in the attic. If he even had a nick name, it would be "Goose."
What's wrong with middle aged Accountants? Some of them like Harleys too. :)
If you're not fighting any humanoids this arc, then your choice of Hold Person becomes useless. A Cleric or Wizard just swaps it out, but the Sorcerer is stuck with it.
In theory, yes, but I still don't see how this is a significant issue. Even if someone picked a highly situational spell without realizing it, a DM could easily make an exception once or twice for new players; that's a simpler and lower-impact concession than permanently expanding the spells known limit. Adventurer's League even lets you rebuild almost all of your character any number of times before 5th level.
Picking Metamagic-friendly spells is easy. The only one that can be tricky is Twinned Spell, since spells like Telekinesis can be tricky without a good understanding of the rules; but again, the DM should be able to help. But it doesn't require much insight to figure out if Haste is good, Twinned Haste is double good.
I also think another part of the problem is that I do feel that sorcerer is being treated like the red-headed stepchild of the spellcasting classes by the developers - why does the wizard get a spell designed around scaring people with a dragon... when doing dragon-y things is literally the iconic sorcerer and they don't get said spell? People see that, which paints the sorcerer in a negative light, and from there...
The idea is that since Sorcerers cast intuitively, their spells are simpler. Wizards work hard to develop a conscious understanding of magical theory, which lets them discover/create more complex spells. Illusory Dragon is one heck of a complex spell.
I think Gregory has been spot-on with his commentary in this thread, for what it's worth. Also, the idea to suggest the Sorcerer go all-in on spell points is clever and actually seems like it might've been originally planned. An additional metamagic or two would be helpful for certain, if for nothing other than to make it easier to get metamagic that works well with the spells you actually want to cast (instead of needing an excel spreadsheet to plan which spells mesh with what metamagics). I probably wouldn't give them more than one extra spell or maybe two, though.
Personally, one of the things I find lacking in the Sorcerer is mechanical/ribbon features that fit with their flavour. Barring metamagic (limited choice and by long rests) and subclass features, the base class is a bad CHA-Wizard with more cantrips, which is part of why people see them that way. One thing I'd add is to make it so they can cast without an arcane focus - in essence, they are the focus. It's nothing game-breaking, it synergizes well with Subtle Spell, and it gives them something interesting from level 1. I also like the idea of maybe providing them with a useful non-combat spell(s) like Detect Magic for free once per rest, to lessen the "spell tax" other classes are better able to absorb without limiting their effectiveness out-of-combat (essentially similar to Warlock invocations). Combine that with spell points and a bit of tweaking to metamagic and I think you have something that actually feels like its own class. Their sorcery points still don't recharge on a short rest, unlike ki points and most other class resources, but I don't see any way around that without limiting their "cash-in for spell points".
Personally, one of the things I find lacking in the Sorcerer is mechanical/ribbon features that fit with their flavour. Barring metamagic (limited choice and by long rests) and subclass features, the base class is a bad CHA-Wizard with more cantrips, which is part of why people see them that way.
But that's a skewed comparison. Sorcerers are defined by their subclass; wizards are mostly defined by their spellbook.
I also like the idea of maybe providing them with a useful non-combat spell(s) like Detect Magic for free once per rest, to lessen the "spell tax" other classes are better able to absorb without limiting their effectiveness out-of-combat (essentially similar to Warlock invocations).
Too similar, though. That's the same reason increasing the spells known number leaves a bad taste in my mouth; it starts creeping too much into wizard territory. (That's also what killed the Lore wizard; it was too sorcerer-like.)
But this ties into what I said earlier; the class really needs more subclasses. Wizards started with 8, Clerics started with 7, and sorcerers with just 2. They've been playing catch-up ever since. That kind of big change could easily be worked into a subclass and justified with a story, like the Shadow Sorcerer did with Eyes of the Dark.
Increasing the number of sub-classes seems a poor option - You can only pick one after all. The 37 other sub-classes are irrelevant once you are locked in at level 3. Having access to ALL the meta magic feats would not be game breaking and shouldn't step on the party wizard's toes. Having access to more offensive/combat spells would not be game breaking and shouldn't step on the party wizard's toes.
Now at the risk of stereo-typing the two classes even more than I already have above: wizards think, sorcerers act.
Sorcerers, probably due to their 'particular'* ancestry are not necessarily the most mentally balanced of people; having more options won't necessarily make them more thoughtful, but it will make them more unpredictable. "If you want a job done, speak to a wizard. If you want a job done anytime soon, speak to a sorcerer."
Of course there are mad and or unpredictable wizards (I'm looking at you, Fizban!) and sensible, survived the hormone rush of innate power sorcerers (err.......Gerald Tarrant? to mention someone else that Mathias won't have heard of, or Allanon**, who despite claiming to be a druid, seems more like a sorcerer to me. ) It is the stereotypes that allow the oddities to stand out.
*'particular' ancestry, as I really wanted to put "flumped up" or something that sounds like that. **From the books, not that god-awful, politically correct, tick all the boxes pile of crap series....
The idea is that since Sorcerers cast intuitively, their spells are simpler. Wizards work hard to develop a conscious understanding of magical theory, which lets them discover/create more complex spells. Illusory Dragon is one heck of a complex spell.
And its very easy to hear that as saying that sorcerers are not as good as wizards at magic. That they're inferior. That they get the idiot ball. Like I said, being treated as the red-headed step-child, and all the prejudice that engenders.
And I don't think its fair to the sorcerer when the wizard can use Dragon's Breath to greater effect through a familiar, and that the wild magic sorcerer had to wait YEARS to get access to a randomized spell that should have been in the core book.
But that's a skewed comparison. Sorcerers are defined by their subclass; wizards are mostly defined by their spellbook.
Sorcerers are defined by their spell selections as much as any wizard. Not by their subclass. Even the metamagic choices are going to be made based on what kind of spells the sorcerer wants to be casting. If you're going to be casting Fireballs, Burning Hands and other fiery AoEs, you're not going to be taking Twinned Spell, after all. And a Necromancer wizard is going to favor having a spellbook with Necromancy spells in it, just as an Evoker has evocations and a Conjurer has, surprise, Conjuration spells.
The only exception might, might be the Divine Soul, and then? That's because of the Divine Soul offers new spell options no one else gets.
Too similar, though. That's the same reason increasing the spells known number leaves a bad taste in my mouth; it starts creeping too much into wizard territory. (That's also what killed the Lore wizard; it was too sorcerer-like.)
But this ties into what I said earlier; the class really needs more subclasses. Wizards started with 8, Clerics started with 7, and sorcerers with just 2. They've been playing catch-up ever since. That kind of big change could easily be worked into a subclass and justified with a story, like the Shadow Sorcerer did with Eyes of the Dark.
Wizards and clerics are the outliers here. Most classes started with two to three subclasses. By that logic, every class is playing catch-up.
And Eyes of the Dark? That's nothing more than ripping off the Darkness / Devil's Eye combo of the warlock. Lots of subclasses are doing that now. Heck. The latest three in UA are ripping off the Necromancer, Barbarian and Wild Magic Sorcerer.
Increasing the number of sub-classes seems a poor option - You can only pick one after all. The 37 other sub-classes are irrelevant once you are locked in at level 3.
If Alice wished Sorcerers had more spell selection, Bob wished Sorcerers had a higher spells known limit, and Charlie wished Sorcerers had more utility, you can keep all of them happy with 1 subclass each instead of trying to shove everything everyone wishes Sorcerers could do into the main class. Plus, Alice, Bob and Charlie are outliers; most people are fine with how Sorcerers work, since the design was driven by years of playtesting.
Having access to ALL the meta magic feats would not be game breaking and shouldn't step on the party wizard's toes.
Giving Fighters all Fighting Styles doesn't break anything either. But that's boring! When it's a choice, it says something about your character. When everyone has it, it's just a thing fighters do.
Besides, you only want all the choices because you have to choose. Jeremy and Mearls already tried letting spellcasters swap prepared spells mid-day instead of just during a long rest. It turns out being able to do everything gets boring pretty fast after the initial rush wears off.
And its very easy to hear that as saying that sorcerers are not as good as wizards at magic. That they're inferior. That they get the idiot ball. Like I said, being treated as the red-headed step-child, and all the prejudice that engenders.
They're obviously not inferior since they can modify spells on the fly, which wizards can't do. They can still disintegrate you just as easily as a wizard, and they can one-up the wizard using Heightened Spell, Empowered Spell or Twinned Spell.
It's like arguing that symphony composers are inherently better musicians than everyone else because their music is more complex. Complexity isn't what music is about though. They can write different songs than country artists or jazz artists or blues artists but they're not better.
And I don't think its fair to the sorcerer when the wizard can use Dragon's Breath to greater effect through a familiar, and that the wild magic sorcerer had to wait YEARS to get access to a randomized spell that should have been in the core book.
That's a cute trick, until their 1 HP familiar gets attacked and then they lose 10 gp, 1 hour, and their spell slot.
Sorcerers are defined by their spell selections as much as any wizard. Not by their subclass.
What I'm saying is that the bread and butter wizard mechanics are in the core class. The spellbook mechanics - learning additional spells, being able to swap them daily, casting ritual spells directly from it, recovering spell slots from it - are what wizards are all about. The kind of things they get in subclasses are almost always minor or very specific/limited-use gimmicks. A level 2 illusionist gets to create both a sound and an image with Minor Illusion? Transmuters can turn wood into metal for a while? Wow! The main outlier is Bladesinging, which is setting-specific.
By contrast, Sorcerers are literally defined by their Sorcerous Origin. That's where their magic comes from. You can't even be a Sorcerer without an origin. Their subclass says a lot about who they are, and makes sweeping changes to how they play. Draconic Sorcerers effectively have permanent mage armor and go up a hit die size. Storm Sorcerers kind of have Cunning Action. Divine Souls have a whole second spell list to choose from.
Wizards and clerics are the outliers here. Most classes started with two to three subclasses. By that logic, every class is playing catch-up.
But not all classes are equally influenced by their subclass choice. The omission is especially glaring for Sorcerers, since so much of the class's functionality is in the subclasses and there's no shortage of potential sorcerous origins. The elemental ones were a no-brainer.
And Eyes of the Dark? That's nothing more than ripping off the Darkness / Devil's Eye combo of the warlock. Lots of subclasses are doing that now. Heck. The latest three in UA are ripping off the Necromancer, Barbarian and Wild Magic Sorcerer.
Yes, but it's the lore and theming that makes it work. A Shadowfell-based Sorcerer makes sense and is appealing; Eyes of the Dark is a natural fit for it. When the overlap is justified by a character concept that resonates with people, it gets a positive reception. That's the difference between the Sharpshooter Fighter that got axed and the Arcane Archer that got published.
That's why doing something like copying the whole Eldritch Invocations class feature and putting it on the core class wouldn't work. It might solve a mechanical gap you'd like to see filled, but something like that is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way because it's just copy-and-paste. But when you create a subclass with a theme, you can copy specific instances of features that fit the theme (like at-will Detect Magic) and add some lore like "Your strong connection to the Astral Plane makes you sensitive to magic around you". Then it clicks.
@ InquisitiveCoderSub-classes are fine, as long as they are making the main class more distinct, as opposed to more like another class. I think we are agreeing on this point. My issue is that you can only play one character, one class, one sub-class, at a time (yeah, you can multi-class, but I wish to conveniently forget that) so adding more sub-classes doesn't necessarily make an individual (sub)class more interesting to play, it just limits it in a different way.
I don't know why I am arguing with you though (probably habit) as I like the sorcerer as it is, and have nothing against new sub-classes being introduced (new stuff is normally good right?)
If a class is broken (and I definitely don't think any of them are) then adding a subclass doesn't fix the class, it just offers a version that isn't broken.
"....there's no shortage of potential sorcerous origins" - I agree most heartily - of all the classes, the sorcerer is the one with the most potential for interesting origins and powers (yeah, there are thousands of potential fighter origins, but they are all mostly fairly mundane.) I may be am biased.
If anything I would say the general problem with the current version of D&D is that its highly reliant on magic to make the classes work. There are only 4 classes that don’t cast spells (Fighter, Rogue, Barbarian & Monk) and even among those classes you have ”magic” based off-shoots. Combine that with most of the races having some sort of magic enhanced ability and what you have is basically a game about mages. The basic problem is that magic is no longer Special or unique, its more common to be a caster not to not be one. Rangers, Bards, Paladins, Warlocks, Sorcerers, Clerics, Druids, not to mention Eldritch Knights, Arcane Tricksters and even among the new books they add even more ways to cast spells.
The end result is that it has diluted the actual casting classes to the point that if you are a pure caster Sorcerer you kind of in this weird space where you don’t have any of the martial abilities of all of the other casting classes, but you aren’t specialized either like the Wizard.
Yes! This is one the issues I have with 5E. Every class has magic, or magic-like abilities. Like you said it dilutes the "traditional" magic using classes.
To paraphrase a line from " The Incredibles" : When everyone has magic, no one has magic.
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Kinbard Kroft: 32nd Lvl Arch Mage (1E/2E)
Grunk: 15th Lvl Barbarian/3rd Lvl Wizard (5E)
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I'm currently in a campaign playing as a wild magic sorcerer, and enjoying my choice (currently 3rd level). However, I've heard a number of people say that the sorcerer isn't as good a choice as the wizard.
If you agree, what would you change about the class features and abilities to put the sorcerer on par with Wizards?
My first thought would be to provide more sorcerer points at each level to add to the classes versatility.
When it comes to sorcerers versus wizards, it's mostly an argument of quality versus quantity or rather specialty versus versatility. Because where a wizard has a larger spell selection and loads more spells, a sorcerer has fewer spells but on the flip side can boost them to do crazy things with their metamagics.
Ultimately, though I would think the most general consensus for how to "improve" the sorcerer (in comparison to the wizard or other casters) would simply be to increase their spells known number and give them more sorcery points. The rest I think would take care of itself for the most part.
I've found that you have to be very careful when messing with the Sorcerer because the power of the class has never been an issue. Rather, the player experience can sometimes suffer because of their lack of versatility and difficulty to build in an optimal manner. That is to say, it's easy to build a Sorcerer poorly as compared to other classes. A Cleric can always just prepare different spells, but if a Sorcerer picks spells that don't fit the campaign or don't complement their metamagics, they can have a bad time.
With this said, I favor a few very lightweight changes to the Sorcerer in order to improve the player's experience without drastically altering the power of the class.
These changes grant additional versatility and a unique identity to the class, doubling down on spell slot versatility and adding more metamagic. I like to think that this keeps the Sorcerer balanced while adding a little pizazz.
I'd bump up a list of spells they're able to learn, first and foremost. I kind of dig the idea of that being tied partially to subclasses that the Divine Soul has going for it, so that'd be a decent starting point. Beyond that, with Metamagic its already a potentially powerful subclass with what few spells they do have, so I don't think too much tweaking is necessary.
Finally getting a Melee based subclass that almost all of the other casters have at this point would be nice.
...giving Sorcerers more spells known or metamagic options seems a bit much to me. Versatility is the wizard's niche. I like the suggestion of using spell points though..
Sorcerers just need more subclasses to round them out compared to wizards and clerics. There's still a good chance of Stone, Sea and Phoenix sorcery getting published though.
" I've heard a number of people say that the sorcerer isn't as good a choice as the wizard."
For what?
The sorcerer rides a Harley (without a crash helmet), never finished school, stays out late, swears, drinks neat vodka,carries three flick knives and is known for a fiery temper. His nickname, in contrast is "IceMan."
The wizard is a middle-aged accountant with an interest in family trees, gardening, and etymology. He likes to watch Antiques Roadshow and drives a nissan cashcow which he insists on pronouncing Kash-Kai as though it makes him cooler. He owns an entire set of Encyclopedia Brittanica and has a train set in the attic. If he even had a nick name, it would be "Goose."
Nate "Hellequin" Garrett Vs Gandalf "the Grey"?
No contest.
Roleplaying since Runequest.
Mostly, the sorcerer's spell list is kinda janked up, and they could use more spell points. Err... sorcery points. Other than that, I think they're fine. I'm even fine with the spells known.
The problem, I feel, comes from the expectation of the sorcerer to be a replacement for the wizard. These are not scholars like wizards, but they're expected to be Arcana experts, and maybe be the ones doing the Knock spells and stuff.
I also think another part of the problem is that I do feel that sorcerer is being treated like the red-headed stepchild of the spellcasting classes by the developers - why does the wizard get a spell designed around scaring people with a dragon... when doing dragon-y things is literally the iconic sorcerer and they don't get said spell? People see that, which paints the sorcerer in a negative light, and from there...
I think Gregory has been spot-on with his commentary in this thread, for what it's worth. Also, the idea to suggest the Sorcerer go all-in on spell points is clever and actually seems like it might've been originally planned. An additional metamagic or two would be helpful for certain, if for nothing other than to make it easier to get metamagic that works well with the spells you actually want to cast (instead of needing an excel spreadsheet to plan which spells mesh with what metamagics). I probably wouldn't give them more than one extra spell or maybe two, though.
Personally, one of the things I find lacking in the Sorcerer is mechanical/ribbon features that fit with their flavour. Barring metamagic (limited choice and by long rests) and subclass features, the base class is a bad CHA-Wizard with more cantrips, which is part of why people see them that way. One thing I'd add is to make it so they can cast without an arcane focus - in essence, they are the focus. It's nothing game-breaking, it synergizes well with Subtle Spell, and it gives them something interesting from level 1. I also like the idea of maybe providing them with a useful non-combat spell(s) like Detect Magic for free once per rest, to lessen the "spell tax" other classes are better able to absorb without limiting their effectiveness out-of-combat (essentially similar to Warlock invocations). Combine that with spell points and a bit of tweaking to metamagic and I think you have something that actually feels like its own class. Their sorcery points still don't recharge on a short rest, unlike ki points and most other class resources, but I don't see any way around that without limiting their "cash-in for spell points".
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
No contest.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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But that's a skewed comparison. Sorcerers are defined by their subclass; wizards are mostly defined by their spellbook.
@InquisitiveCoder,
Increasing the number of sub-classes seems a poor option - You can only pick one after all. The 37 other sub-classes are irrelevant once you are locked in at level 3.
Having access to ALL the meta magic feats would not be game breaking and shouldn't step on the party wizard's toes.
Having access to more offensive/combat spells would not be game breaking and shouldn't step on the party wizard's toes.
Now at the risk of stereo-typing the two classes even more than I already have above: wizards think, sorcerers act.
Sorcerers, probably due to their 'particular'* ancestry are not necessarily the most mentally balanced of people; having more options won't necessarily make them more thoughtful, but it will make them more unpredictable.
"If you want a job done, speak to a wizard. If you want a job done anytime soon, speak to a sorcerer."
Of course there are mad and or unpredictable wizards (I'm looking at you, Fizban!) and sensible, survived the hormone rush of innate power sorcerers (err.......Gerald Tarrant? to mention someone else that Mathias won't have heard of, or Allanon**, who despite claiming to be a druid, seems more like a sorcerer to me. ) It is the stereotypes that allow the oddities to stand out.
*'particular' ancestry, as I really wanted to put "flumped up" or something that sounds like that.
**From the books, not that god-awful, politically correct, tick all the boxes pile of crap series....
Roleplaying since Runequest.
Sorcerers are defined by their spell selections as much as any wizard. Not by their subclass. Even the metamagic choices are going to be made based on what kind of spells the sorcerer wants to be casting. If you're going to be casting Fireballs, Burning Hands and other fiery AoEs, you're not going to be taking Twinned Spell, after all. And a Necromancer wizard is going to favor having a spellbook with Necromancy spells in it, just as an Evoker has evocations and a Conjurer has, surprise, Conjuration spells.
The only exception might, might be the Divine Soul, and then? That's because of the Divine Soul offers new spell options no one else gets.
If Alice wished Sorcerers had more spell selection, Bob wished Sorcerers had a higher spells known limit, and Charlie wished Sorcerers had more utility, you can keep all of them happy with 1 subclass each instead of trying to shove everything everyone wishes Sorcerers could do into the main class. Plus, Alice, Bob and Charlie are outliers; most people are fine with how Sorcerers work, since the design was driven by years of playtesting.
Giving Fighters all Fighting Styles doesn't break anything either. But that's boring! When it's a choice, it says something about your character. When everyone has it, it's just a thing fighters do.
Besides, you only want all the choices because you have to choose. Jeremy and Mearls already tried letting spellcasters swap prepared spells mid-day instead of just during a long rest. It turns out being able to do everything gets boring pretty fast after the initial rush wears off.
What I'm saying is that the bread and butter wizard mechanics are in the core class. The spellbook mechanics - learning additional spells, being able to swap them daily, casting ritual spells directly from it, recovering spell slots from it - are what wizards are all about. The kind of things they get in subclasses are almost always minor or very specific/limited-use gimmicks. A level 2 illusionist gets to create both a sound and an image with Minor Illusion? Transmuters can turn wood into metal for a while? Wow! The main outlier is Bladesinging, which is setting-specific.
By contrast, Sorcerers are literally defined by their Sorcerous Origin. That's where their magic comes from. You can't even be a Sorcerer without an origin. Their subclass says a lot about who they are, and makes sweeping changes to how they play. Draconic Sorcerers effectively have permanent mage armor and go up a hit die size. Storm Sorcerers kind of have Cunning Action. Divine Souls have a whole second spell list to choose from.
@ InquisitiveCoder Sub-classes are fine, as long as they are making the main class more distinct, as opposed to more like another class. I think we are agreeing on this point. My issue is that you can only play one character, one class, one sub-class, at a time (yeah, you can multi-class, but I wish to conveniently forget that) so adding more sub-classes doesn't necessarily make an individual (sub)class more interesting to play, it just limits it in a different way.
I don't know why I am arguing with you though (probably habit) as I like the sorcerer as it is, and have nothing against new sub-classes being introduced (new stuff is normally good right?)
If a class is broken (and I definitely don't think any of them are) then adding a subclass doesn't fix the class, it just offers a version that isn't broken.
"....there's no shortage of potential sorcerous origins" - I agree most heartily - of all the classes, the sorcerer is the one with the most potential for interesting origins and powers (yeah, there are thousands of potential fighter origins, but they are
allmostly fairly mundane.) Imay beam biased."It's better to burn out than fade away!"
Roleplaying since Runequest.
Hey everyone, thanks for all the ideas!