I've wondered about this for a long time, and I wanted to ask. Is War Magic a subclass that can seriously compete with just going straight-up Abjuration or Evocation? It's abjuration features are nice, but when it gets to the damage, I feel like there isn't really a comparison between them and Evocation, or the cool defense granted by Abjuration. It seems best as a two level dip for Eldritch Knights, but I don't think I would go any deeper. My fix is that in the cases of Deflecting Shroud and Power Surge, I would change 'half damage' to full damage.
Is this fair, or does it make the class unbalanced?
Also, could you explain how it's balanced? Because I really don't get it. The damage of Evocation is way better, and the defense offered by Abjuration outweighs some okay damage capabilities from War Magic.
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It's not competing with Abjuration or Evocation. Instead its taking elements from both classes and weaving them together to make a wizard who is more at home on the front lines than other wizards. In other words, it's more of a generalist whereas Abjurers and Evokers are specialists.
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The 2nd level ability alone is worth it. As a reaction you can get either a +2 AC or a +4 on a save at the cost of only being able to cast cantrips the following round. It has saved my bacon on many an occasion.
Also, My Eldritch Knight fighter to two level of wizard just to get the feature. :)
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Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
It's okay. My War Mage is currently level 8. As far as things go, the reaction for +2 AC is nice (though overshadowed by Shield), but the +4 to a saving throw is more valuable. Adding Int to your initiative, on top of Dex, means you're probably going first regularly. Great for getting a fireball off while those enemies are still clumped up.
Power Surge, at level 6, is kinda fiddly and circumstantial to really be worth it. You have to Dispel or Counterspell to get a charge, and all the charge gets you is half-level damage. That's not nothing, but you're likely to find yourself never having more than the charge you get back after a short rest.
So, overall . . . eh. Okay, not great. Which is probably for the best.
I think war mage is ok as a subclass, but great as a dip. The level 2 snd 10 features are fantastic, but the others are a big meh... you can add an additional 7 damage at a level illusionists essentially rewrite reality.
The problem with the dip is that there are so few other it based classes to dip with. Its a great combination with eldritch knight (bladesinger seems a tad better with arcane trickster due to other uses for reactions), but i dont know what else would be a good combo.
As for warcaster you can make a really strong melee caster with it if you can wear good armor. Picking up fighter as a level one dip and getting medium armor with a fair dex puts it on par with bladesinger because war wizard doesn't have the weakness of being punched in the nads (non AC defenses).
Combining it with UA artificer is just nuts because of the amount of gain it nets, but I tend to think artificer/wizard is really strong thematically and mechanically and it could be the strongest multiclass arguably.
I posted about this in the bladesinger: weapons, feats and tactics thread but here is a short recap.
For most bladesinger's I'd recommend dipping fighter for the first level to pick up con save and dual weild (or protection depending on your role) tho with artificer it's really tempting to pick that for a 2-3 level dip to get con save, infusions, +1 to weapons and armor, your weapon and armor into foci, cure wounds and sanctuary if you go 3 you get either a turret or homonculus.
The synergy of artificer and wizard is really strong.
If I were making an artificer/warmage how I would build would depend on the length of the campaign but I would probably go 2 to 5 artificer (alchemist as the homonculus is way more versatile) then go warmage from there depending on how much of a caster I wanted to be. You gain your asi at 4th and a second attack at 5th tho for my money higher level spells beat out the second attack most of the time.
It would also work really well with wizard (abjuration).
for tactics in a group it would be able to switch hit from being front and back line with lots of assistance to other players.
For being backline Infuse the tank with +1 to weapons and armor and have homonculus aid them have your familiar aid your rogue. save your last infusion for your weapon so you can always cast while armed.
Frontline infuse all of your own gear have the homonculus aid you then have your familiar aid the rogue.
From my interpretation, War Mage is not really a blasting or a defensive Wizard but a battlefield control Wizard. Getting the bonus to initiative allows it to throw up a for instance wall spell. Their Durable Magic and Arcane Deflection abilities help them maintain concentration on the spell, while Deflecting Shroud and Power Surge help with them maintain a decent offense. Overall, War Mage is no Diviner. It is certainly not the best tradition but it is certainly not the worst, or second worst, Wizard tradition.
From my interpretation, War Mage is not really a blasting or a defensive Wizard but a battlefield control Wizard. Getting the bonus to initiative allows it to throw up a for instance wall spell. Their Durable Magic and Arcane Deflection abilities help them maintain concentration on the spell, while Deflecting Shroud and Power Surge help with them maintain a decent offense. Overall, War Mage is no Diviner. It is certainly not the best tradition but it is certainly not the worst, or second worst, Wizard tradition.
I agreed with you. The 6th level ability of tge War Mage is not all that great. The 2nd level and higher level abilities are good to great though.
What I find is that the War Mage is great for a 2 level multiclass dip, especially for the Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster, and the new Artificer.
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Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Pick Orc or some other brute class. Start with 1 level war mage, 1 level fighter, then the rest war mage. Pick up war caster and heavy armor feat and wear plate and wield a shield. Minimum intelligence (13/14). Go for strength and constitution only. Max out your strength. Use only buffing spells that don’t need spell DCs.
Take the front lines and be untouchable with your crazy high AC (Shield, durable/blur, and arcane deflection), decent damage with GreenFlameBlade and BoomIngBlade. Outclass warriors at their own game. Bigby’s Hand to hold them still and for bonus action damage.
Or, Tensers Transformation and have ungodly saves (str, con, wis, and int) and damage. Laugh at dragons. Retire from the game as that jock wizard that bullied all the Harry Potter types at school for answers to the final exam. Marry the princess.
Honestly I think you all arent looking at the real ability of this class. I just built a variant human strictly wizard gave him the staff focus which my dm doubles as a quarterstaff, then I took the basic scag cantrips (booming blade, greenflame blade, sword burst) plus having high dex with mage armor helps with shield so the arcane defection is nice and the power surges come handy with magic missile. If you say anything about the cantrips just remember the material component is a weapon so the staff is useful I think it is more of how you bulid the character with feats and choice of spells then what it can dip with and don't get me wrong all are good ideas but this wizard has more protential then you guys think.
Had a player as a War Caster in a game that ran to 8th. Thought Power Surge was pretty weak as it looks to resource from a reaction, which as a war wizard you are forced to chose between either counter-spelling or Arcane Deflection. I homebrewed that you get surges from counter-spelling/dispelling AND any spell that you save against BECAUSE of use of Arcane Deflection.
Ends up giving more flexibility on reactions and allows more use of a level 6 ability, which from my perspective should really be the defining ability of the subclass. Worked out pretty well and didn't end up OP since in play it didn't give that many extra uses of Power Surge.
Had a player as a War Caster in a game that ran to 8th. Thought Power Surge was pretty weak as it looks to resource from a reaction, which as a war wizard you are forced to chose between either counter-spelling or Arcane Deflection. I homebrewed that you get surges from counter-spelling/dispelling AND any spell that you save against BECAUSE of use of Arcane Deflection.
Ends up giving more flexibility on reactions and allows more use of a level 6 ability, which from my perspective should really be the defining ability of the subclass. Worked out pretty well and didn't end up OP since in play it didn't give that many extra uses of Power Surge.
I have been dwelling on this exact thing for the past week, and am going to bring it up to my DM as well. It's very strange that using one class feature would impair the use of another instead of augment.
I find Power Surge way too effective - every Wizard is Counter-spelling literally everything, so the extra damage is almost always going to take place as well. Throwing it on Arcane Deflection just means you get to channel Power Surge AND use Deflecting Shroud at the same time ... That’s 36 extra damage in a round.
I find Power Surge way too effective - every Wizard is Counter-spelling literally everything, so the extra damage is almost always going to take place as well. Throwing it on Arcane Deflection just means you get to channel Power Surge AND use Deflecting Shroud at the same time ... That’s 36 extra damage in a round.
Definitely not balanced with that homebrew.
I don't understand how you're arriving at 36 extra damage a round. You can only use one Power Surge a round and that damage is Wiz lvl/2.
If we assume that for some reason this wiz is countering spells every round @ lvl 6 with a combat lasting 5 rounds, that's only a maximum of 5 uses of Power Surge. That's 15 damage over the course of combat IF it hits with every spell and IF they are only blasting (which realistically a wiz with such good concentration defense will not do). Your barbarian companion, if he hits (which he should be with Reckless), would do a minimum of 20 dmg with just his bonus damage from Rage @ lvl 6.
Overpowered, no? Does it compete with another feature from the class, yes. Is it basically a ribbon, yes. My homebrew opens up choices for PCs rather than make them fight against their own class.
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I've wondered about this for a long time, and I wanted to ask. Is War Magic a subclass that can seriously compete with just going straight-up Abjuration or Evocation? It's abjuration features are nice, but when it gets to the damage, I feel like there isn't really a comparison between them and Evocation, or the cool defense granted by Abjuration. It seems best as a two level dip for Eldritch Knights, but I don't think I would go any deeper. My fix is that in the cases of Deflecting Shroud and Power Surge, I would change 'half damage' to full damage.
Is this fair, or does it make the class unbalanced?
"Halt your wagging and wag your halters, for I am mastercryomancer!"
Check out my Expanded Signature
Also, could you explain how it's balanced? Because I really don't get it. The damage of Evocation is way better, and the defense offered by Abjuration outweighs some okay damage capabilities from War Magic.
"Halt your wagging and wag your halters, for I am mastercryomancer!"
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It's not competing with Abjuration or Evocation. Instead its taking elements from both classes and weaving them together to make a wizard who is more at home on the front lines than other wizards. In other words, it's more of a generalist whereas Abjurers and Evokers are specialists.
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The 2nd level ability alone is worth it. As a reaction you can get either a +2 AC or a +4 on a save at the cost of only being able to cast cantrips the following round. It has saved my bacon on many an occasion.
Also, My Eldritch Knight fighter to two level of wizard just to get the feature. :)
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
It's okay. My War Mage is currently level 8. As far as things go, the reaction for +2 AC is nice (though overshadowed by Shield), but the +4 to a saving throw is more valuable. Adding Int to your initiative, on top of Dex, means you're probably going first regularly. Great for getting a fireball off while those enemies are still clumped up.
Power Surge, at level 6, is kinda fiddly and circumstantial to really be worth it. You have to Dispel or Counterspell to get a charge, and all the charge gets you is half-level damage. That's not nothing, but you're likely to find yourself never having more than the charge you get back after a short rest.
So, overall . . . eh. Okay, not great. Which is probably for the best.
I think war mage is ok as a subclass, but great as a dip. The level 2 snd 10 features are fantastic, but the others are a big meh... you can add an additional 7 damage at a level illusionists essentially rewrite reality.
The problem with the dip is that there are so few other it based classes to dip with. Its a great combination with eldritch knight (bladesinger seems a tad better with arcane trickster due to other uses for reactions), but i dont know what else would be a good combo.
That basically sums up my view of the subclass.
"Halt your wagging and wag your halters, for I am mastercryomancer!"
Check out my Expanded Signature
Seems to stack incredibly well with the new UA Artificer.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Yeah the artificer is amazing for any int based gish builds, basically on par with or better than fighter depending on your role...
As for warcaster you can make a really strong melee caster with it if you can wear good armor. Picking up fighter as a level one dip and getting medium armor with a fair dex puts it on par with bladesinger because war wizard doesn't have the weakness of being punched in the nads (non AC defenses).
Combining it with UA artificer is just nuts because of the amount of gain it nets, but I tend to think artificer/wizard is really strong thematically and mechanically and it could be the strongest multiclass arguably.
Can you go into more detail as why artificer/war mage is a good combo? How do you see the level splits? Alchemist or artillerist?
and what did you mean by any int based gish builds ?
I posted about this in the bladesinger: weapons, feats and tactics thread but here is a short recap.
For most bladesinger's I'd recommend dipping fighter for the first level to pick up con save and dual weild (or protection depending on your role) tho with artificer it's really tempting to pick that for a 2-3 level dip to get con save, infusions, +1 to weapons and armor, your weapon and armor into foci, cure wounds and sanctuary if you go 3 you get either a turret or homonculus.
The synergy of artificer and wizard is really strong.
If I were making an artificer/warmage how I would build would depend on the length of the campaign but I would probably go 2 to 5 artificer (alchemist as the homonculus is way more versatile) then go warmage from there depending on how much of a caster I wanted to be. You gain your asi at 4th and a second attack at 5th tho for my money higher level spells beat out the second attack most of the time.
It would also work really well with wizard (abjuration).
for tactics in a group it would be able to switch hit from being front and back line with lots of assistance to other players.
For being backline Infuse the tank with +1 to weapons and armor and have homonculus aid them have your familiar aid your rogue. save your last infusion for your weapon so you can always cast while armed.
Frontline infuse all of your own gear have the homonculus aid you then have your familiar aid the rogue.
From my interpretation, War Mage is not really a blasting or a defensive Wizard but a battlefield control Wizard. Getting the bonus to initiative allows it to throw up a for instance wall spell. Their Durable Magic and Arcane Deflection abilities help them maintain concentration on the spell, while Deflecting Shroud and Power Surge help with them maintain a decent offense. Overall, War Mage is no Diviner. It is certainly not the best tradition but it is certainly not the worst, or second worst, Wizard tradition.
I agreed with you. The 6th level ability of tge War Mage is not all that great. The 2nd level and higher level abilities are good to great though.
What I find is that the War Mage is great for a 2 level multiclass dip, especially for the Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster, and the new Artificer.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Pick Orc or some other brute class. Start with 1 level war mage, 1 level fighter, then the rest war mage. Pick up war caster and heavy armor feat and wear plate and wield a shield. Minimum intelligence (13/14). Go for strength and constitution only. Max out your strength. Use only buffing spells that don’t need spell DCs.
Take the front lines and be untouchable with your crazy high AC (Shield, durable/blur, and arcane deflection), decent damage with GreenFlameBlade and BoomIngBlade. Outclass warriors at their own game. Bigby’s Hand to hold them still and for bonus action damage.
Or, Tensers Transformation and have ungodly saves (str, con, wis, and int) and damage. Laugh at dragons. Retire from the game as that jock wizard that bullied all the Harry Potter types at school for answers to the final exam. Marry the princess.
Honestly I think you all arent looking at the real ability of this class. I just built a variant human strictly wizard gave him the staff focus which my dm doubles as a quarterstaff, then I took the basic scag cantrips (booming blade, greenflame blade, sword burst) plus having high dex with mage armor helps with shield so the arcane defection is nice and the power surges come handy with magic missile. If you say anything about the cantrips just remember the material component is a weapon so the staff is useful I think it is more of how you bulid the character with feats and choice of spells then what it can dip with and don't get me wrong all are good ideas but this wizard has more protential then you guys think.
Had a player as a War Caster in a game that ran to 8th. Thought Power Surge was pretty weak as it looks to resource from a reaction, which as a war wizard you are forced to chose between either counter-spelling or Arcane Deflection. I homebrewed that you get surges from counter-spelling/dispelling AND any spell that you save against BECAUSE of use of Arcane Deflection.
Ends up giving more flexibility on reactions and allows more use of a level 6 ability, which from my perspective should really be the defining ability of the subclass. Worked out pretty well and didn't end up OP since in play it didn't give that many extra uses of Power Surge.
I have been dwelling on this exact thing for the past week, and am going to bring it up to my DM as well. It's very strange that using one class feature would impair the use of another instead of augment.
I find Power Surge way too effective - every Wizard is Counter-spelling literally everything, so the extra damage is almost always going to take place as well. Throwing it on Arcane Deflection just means you get to channel Power Surge AND use Deflecting Shroud at the same time ... That’s 36 extra damage in a round.
Definitely not balanced with that homebrew.
I don't understand how you're arriving at 36 extra damage a round. You can only use one Power Surge a round and that damage is Wiz lvl/2.
If we assume that for some reason this wiz is countering spells every round @ lvl 6 with a combat lasting 5 rounds, that's only a maximum of 5 uses of Power Surge. That's 15 damage over the course of combat IF it hits with every spell and IF they are only blasting (which realistically a wiz with such good concentration defense will not do). Your barbarian companion, if he hits (which he should be with Reckless), would do a minimum of 20 dmg with just his bonus damage from Rage @ lvl 6.
Overpowered, no? Does it compete with another feature from the class, yes. Is it basically a ribbon, yes. My homebrew opens up choices for PCs rather than make them fight against their own class.