With the release of the new Eberron source book came new versions of races that were added in the book "Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron." I was excited to see truly official versions of these new races, but one thing struck a nerve when I went to create a character. The old versions from Wayfinder's had dissappeared. I know that the content in it was for playtest purposes, but it really made me mad that they were gone because it feels like I have wasted my $20 on a book that I can't use anything from. It doesn't even appear when I turn on Playtest content.
What was the point of charging for Wayfinder's Guide if the content from it was just going to be taken away when a more official book came out with the same content? Could the options from that book at least appear under playtest content so it doesn't feel like I flushed $20 down the drain for unofficial content?
The only consolation I have about any of this is that characters that used those versions of the races remained in those versions rather than being updated to the official version. But still, can we at least be allowed to use the content we paid for?
Because you didn't pay for the old versions technically, you paid to have whatever the final version was eventually. It was a pre-order basically, with early access to the playtest. The 'old versions' don't exist anymore, just like with any other playtest material that gets an official release. You're welcome to homebrew it for private use, but what you've got now is what you paid for; access to the final product.
Then we should have been given a discount, equal to the price of WGtE, on the purchase of the new book since so much was copied or taken away from WGtE. They took away races that were in the WGtE and gave them to the new book. They took away races, and subraces, we had been playing since WGtE came out, that we had PAID for.
Material is not Playtest material if we had to pay for it. Like the Aasimar and the Eldarin, all versions should have remained in the game as they had been implemented when we paid for the book.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Wizards and D&D Beyond learned a lot from the WGtE experiment. If you are unsatisfied with your WGtE purchase, BadEye has said in this case, you can get a refund:
We realize that the Wayfinder's experiment with early access was a new type of distribution from WotC and lessons were learned. If you are still unsatisfied, feel free to contact our support team to request a refund for WGtE - we are committed to doing right by our customers.
I am quite satisfied with the original WGtE, and that is what I will continue to use. My purchased pdf copy of WGtE, purchased via DM's Guild, had no such wording and that wording was added after I made my pruchase via DM's Guild.
They also took away a couple of races that were in the WGtE and gave them to the new book, which they should not have been allowed to do. We paid for that material.
WotC is going the way they did with 4E, forcing changes they want on digital character generation site because they can. It killed WotC's 4E web generator, and in the long run, it will kill the new 3rd party sites like DDB, Roll20, and Fantasy Ground.
They put time, effort, and money into things like UA, and then WotC says we can no longer use them officially, so they take away everything we were provided with at WotC whim.
The least WotC should do is leave us with UA and other materials companies have given us access to as Homebrew. But because WotC are being d**ks, they take away what they don't want us to use since they want us to BUY their WotC decreed version.
I have cancelled my subscription to DDB, I no longer need more than 6 characters, and WotC has made the Campaign sharing next to useless for me. I have gone back to using HeroLab where WotC can't mess with what I want to use. I add custom material all the time to HeroLab and, while DDB provides homebrewing, it is no where near as comprehensive as as HeroLab Classic. Unfortunately, the new HeroLab online doesn't support 5E, only Pathfinder 2, Starfinder, and now Showrun 6, so it is useless to me.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
They also took away a couple of races that were in the WGtE and gave them to the new book, which they should not have been allowed to do. We paid for that material.
What races were removed from WGtE and put in RftLW?
They also took away a couple of races that were in the WGtE and gave them to the new book, which they should not have been allowed to do. We paid for that material.
No they didn't. All four races (Warforged, Shifter, Kalashtar and Changeling) are still in WGTE in their updated state to match Rising. Rising also added the Eberron Orc.
The only things removed from WGTE afaik are things that are no longer compatible with updated versions. For example the Greater Dragonmark feat was removed because it's not compatible with the new dragonmarked races, which include the feats mechanical bonuses as a natural progression anyway.
They put time, effort, and money into things like UA, and then WotC says we can no longer use them officially, so they take away everything we were provided with at WotC whim.
UA has never been provided under the assumption that it's a permanent addition to the game, it's always been "this is something that we're toying with, use at your own risk". And like with all UA, you're free to homebrew the test versions back into your game.
The least WotC should do is leave us with UA and other materials companies have given us access to as Homebrew
They have; you can homebrew the content back in if you so wish, as with all other UA. No one is stopping you.
I mean, I do. But why can't we also use the old versions as well since we payed for them?
It comes down to: this is the way WGtE is going to be. If you aren't happy about it (no body blames you if you aren't) DDB is will refund WGtE (aside from some setting fluff, it doesn't have anything ERftLW doesn't also have). And WotC will likely never repeat what they have done here (including playtest in a purchasable product).
One thing I will never, ever do again is pre-order a source book without seeing what I am gettign first. I'll wait and just order the Compendium and parts I want.
I stoppe4d buying hard cover source books when I discovered DDB. I got tired of the bindign falling apart after a few moths.
Adventers are a different kettle of fish. Being able to open modules to different sections via Tabs is a godsend.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
What are you doing to your books to cause the bindings to fall apart after a few months? I still have my original players handbook, dungeon masters guide and monster manual from back when they first got released
Heavy regular use. 3 sessions a week, plus preparations.
You try to lay them flat, using heavy objects to hold the books open and flat and the cheap binding can't take it like the older books can.
With DDB, between the iPad app and the website on my laptop, digital is the best. With the ability to have different pages and books open at the same time in tabs, its great. The only thing I wish is tthat DDB had proper page number so that players can reference stuff properly.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
I think maybe it's the heavy object to hold them open, that'll wreck any book in short time. That's the one thing I don't do with any of my books, let alone D&D ones, otherwise I use them as frequently as you do.
Wizards and D&D Beyond learned a lot from the WGtE experiment. If you are unsatisfied with your WGtE purchase, BadEye has said in this case, you can get a refund:
We realize that the Wayfinder's experiment with early access was a new type of distribution from WotC and lessons were learned. If you are still unsatisfied, feel free to contact our support team to request a refund for WGtE - we are committed to doing right by our customers.
While I may no6lt go so far as demand a refund havi g purchased both books on DDB and Raise in hard cover, is purchase another living document that WotC releases with the "...we want fans to enjoy owning both books." Tweet which lead me to believe there would be different content.
Instead we are left with a diet version of the official book, which is pretty much worthless if you own the final release.
I do agree we ended up paying for access to Unearthed Arcana content, which later was available for free on WotC website.
I don't think angry is the right term for what I am feeling. I think extreme disappointment better discribes it. Not so much at DDB staff but WotC.
PS: I have never seen so much copy content taken from 1 book to the another book with a different title until we got these two books.
On another thread about the Wayfinder changes, Badeye/Adam Bradford (general manager for DDB) said that he would post homebrew versions of the content that was removed from the final version of Wayfinders. The greater dragonmark feats are in the homebrew feats section: filter by author Badeye. The warforged subraces do not appear to be in the races section. I'm not sure if that's because Adam hasn't gotten around to them, or because subraces of official races don't show up properly there, or because Adam's original post (which I can't find now) only referred to the greater dragonmark feats.
Wizards and D&D Beyond learned a lot from the WGtE experiment. If you are unsatisfied with your WGtE purchase, BadEye has said in this case, you can get a refund:
We realize that the Wayfinder's experiment with early access was a new type of distribution from WotC and lessons were learned. If you are still unsatisfied, feel free to contact our support team to request a refund for WGtE - we are committed to doing right by our customers.
This is the honourable and ethical thing to do and I hope D&D Beyond are being compensated for it by WotC seeing as they're the ones ultimately responsible for this mess.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
I don't understand why the WGtE version of the races were removed from the character creator. The Aasimar race and Eladrin subrace from the DMG are still provided despite official releases being available. Simply adding a note when selecting the races and subraces that the content came from WGtE should be more than enough.
This feels comparable to bringing a variant human fighter you spent time and resources to make to a table and then being told that feats aren't allowed.
With the release of the new Eberron source book came new versions of races that were added in the book "Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron." I was excited to see truly official versions of these new races, but one thing struck a nerve when I went to create a character. The old versions from Wayfinder's had dissappeared. I know that the content in it was for playtest purposes, but it really made me mad that they were gone because it feels like I have wasted my $20 on a book that I can't use anything from. It doesn't even appear when I turn on Playtest content.
What was the point of charging for Wayfinder's Guide if the content from it was just going to be taken away when a more official book came out with the same content? Could the options from that book at least appear under playtest content so it doesn't feel like I flushed $20 down the drain for unofficial content?
The only consolation I have about any of this is that characters that used those versions of the races remained in those versions rather than being updated to the official version. But still, can we at least be allowed to use the content we paid for?
The options shouldn't have been taken away, you should still have all the options, just in their latest versions.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
I mean, I do. But why can't we also use the old versions as well since we payed for them?
Because you didn't pay for the old versions technically, you paid to have whatever the final version was eventually. It was a pre-order basically, with early access to the playtest. The 'old versions' don't exist anymore, just like with any other playtest material that gets an official release. You're welcome to homebrew it for private use, but what you've got now is what you paid for; access to the final product.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Then we should have been given a discount, equal to the price of WGtE, on the purchase of the new book since so much was copied or taken away from WGtE. They took away races that were in the WGtE and gave them to the new book. They took away races, and subraces, we had been playing since WGtE came out, that we had PAID for.
Material is not Playtest material if we had to pay for it. Like the Aasimar and the Eldarin, all versions should have remained in the game as they had been implemented when we paid for the book.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Wizards and D&D Beyond learned a lot from the WGtE experiment. If you are unsatisfied with your WGtE purchase, BadEye has said in this case, you can get a refund:
Site Info: Wizard's ToS | Fan Content Policy | Forum Rules | Physical Books | Content Not Working | Contact Support
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I am quite satisfied with the original WGtE, and that is what I will continue to use. My purchased pdf copy of WGtE, purchased via DM's Guild, had no such wording and that wording was added after I made my pruchase via DM's Guild.
They also took away a couple of races that were in the WGtE and gave them to the new book, which they should not have been allowed to do. We paid for that material.
WotC is going the way they did with 4E, forcing changes they want on digital character generation site because they can. It killed WotC's 4E web generator, and in the long run, it will kill the new 3rd party sites like DDB, Roll20, and Fantasy Ground.
They put time, effort, and money into things like UA, and then WotC says we can no longer use them officially, so they take away everything we were provided with at WotC whim.
The least WotC should do is leave us with UA and other materials companies have given us access to as Homebrew. But because WotC are being d**ks, they take away what they don't want us to use since they want us to BUY their WotC decreed version.
I have cancelled my subscription to DDB, I no longer need more than 6 characters, and WotC has made the Campaign sharing next to useless for me. I have gone back to using HeroLab where WotC can't mess with what I want to use. I add custom material all the time to HeroLab and, while DDB provides homebrewing, it is no where near as comprehensive as as HeroLab Classic. Unfortunately, the new HeroLab online doesn't support 5E, only Pathfinder 2, Starfinder, and now Showrun 6, so it is useless to me.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
What races were removed from WGtE and put in RftLW?
No they didn't. All four races (Warforged, Shifter, Kalashtar and Changeling) are still in WGTE in their updated state to match Rising. Rising also added the Eberron Orc.
The only things removed from WGTE afaik are things that are no longer compatible with updated versions. For example the Greater Dragonmark feat was removed because it's not compatible with the new dragonmarked races, which include the feats mechanical bonuses as a natural progression anyway.
UA has never been provided under the assumption that it's a permanent addition to the game, it's always been "this is something that we're toying with, use at your own risk". And like with all UA, you're free to homebrew the test versions back into your game.
They have; you can homebrew the content back in if you so wish, as with all other UA. No one is stopping you.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
It comes down to: this is the way WGtE is going to be. If you aren't happy about it (no body blames you if you aren't) DDB is will refund WGtE (aside from some setting fluff, it doesn't have anything ERftLW doesn't also have). And WotC will likely never repeat what they have done here (including playtest in a purchasable product).
One thing I will never, ever do again is pre-order a source book without seeing what I am gettign first. I'll wait and just order the Compendium and parts I want.
I stoppe4d buying hard cover source books when I discovered DDB. I got tired of the bindign falling apart after a few moths.
Adventers are a different kettle of fish. Being able to open modules to different sections via Tabs is a godsend.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
What are you doing to your books to cause the bindings to fall apart after a few months? I still have my original players handbook, dungeon masters guide and monster manual from back when they first got released
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Heavy regular use. 3 sessions a week, plus preparations.
You try to lay them flat, using heavy objects to hold the books open and flat and the cheap binding can't take it like the older books can.
With DDB, between the iPad app and the website on my laptop, digital is the best. With the ability to have different pages and books open at the same time in tabs, its great. The only thing I wish is tthat DDB had proper page number so that players can reference stuff properly.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
I think maybe it's the heavy object to hold them open, that'll wreck any book in short time. That's the one thing I don't do with any of my books, let alone D&D ones, otherwise I use them as frequently as you do.
I do agree that page numbers would be nice.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
While I may no6lt go so far as demand a refund havi g purchased both books on DDB and Raise in hard cover, is purchase another living document that WotC releases with the "...we want fans to enjoy owning both books." Tweet which lead me to believe there would be different content.
Instead we are left with a diet version of the official book, which is pretty much worthless if you own the final release.
I do agree we ended up paying for access to Unearthed Arcana content, which later was available for free on WotC website.
I don't think angry is the right term for what I am feeling. I think extreme disappointment better discribes it. Not so much at DDB staff but WotC.
PS: I have never seen so much copy content taken from 1 book to the another book with a different title until we got these two books.
But ask and ye shall receive:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/rules-game-mechanics/35037-page-references-d-d-beyond-to-core-rules
On another thread about the Wayfinder changes, Badeye/Adam Bradford (general manager for DDB) said that he would post homebrew versions of the content that was removed from the final version of Wayfinders. The greater dragonmark feats are in the homebrew feats section: filter by author Badeye. The warforged subraces do not appear to be in the races section. I'm not sure if that's because Adam hasn't gotten around to them, or because subraces of official races don't show up properly there, or because Adam's original post (which I can't find now) only referred to the greater dragonmark feats.
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
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This is the honourable and ethical thing to do and I hope D&D Beyond are being compensated for it by WotC seeing as they're the ones ultimately responsible for this mess.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
I don't understand why the WGtE version of the races were removed from the character creator. The Aasimar race and Eladrin subrace from the DMG are still provided despite official releases being available. Simply adding a note when selecting the races and subraces that the content came from WGtE should be more than enough.
This feels comparable to bringing a variant human fighter you spent time and resources to make to a table and then being told that feats aren't allowed.
Because those version of Eladrin and Aasimar still exist in the DMG text.
The text of the WGtE has been changed, so the races have been changed as well.
If you bought WGtE, you paid for a living document that would be updated as playtest periods were concluded.
Site Info: Wizard's ToS | Fan Content Policy | Forum Rules | Physical Books | Content Not Working | Contact Support
How To: Homebrew Rules | Create Homebrew | Snippet Codes | Tool Tips (Custom) | Rollables (Generator)
My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Feats | Spells | Magic Items
Other: Beyond20 | Page References | Other Guides | Entitlements | Dice Randomization | Images Fix | FAQ