I thank you for the reply. I was late to the vtt integration with dndb thing. I should not have let my lack of facts and coincidental timing lead me to assume the worst of a developer. DnDB has always been good to me. In my decades of dealing with corporations and their unscrupulous practices (windows, game publishers,my own job, on and on) has made me reactionary to say the least. This does raise a concern for me though without officially having their own vtt or partnering with a vtt. The content might not be in the future useful for my needs so no more investment by me. Again thank you to ArwensDaughter for replying with calm explanations.
Well this all royally sucks, because I'd encouraged my players to make characters on D&D Beyond because I thought there was (well, I mean, there WAS) character integration with roll20. I am disappointed but not surprised by this. I've been shelling out money for 40 years over this game and once more, corporate America can't get enough of my money. Sure. I can have my players meticulously copy their characters into Roll20 now, but why on earth did I just shell out $30 for an ONLINE Beyond copy of the PHB when I have one here in front of me? I assumed convenience. My bad...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Old enough to be a Grognard, Young at heart enough to enjoy 5e
Well this all royally sucks, because I'd encouraged my players to make characters on D&D Beyond because I thought there was (well, I mean, there WAS) character integration with roll20. I am disappointed but not surprised by this. I've been shelling out money for 40 years over this game and once more, corporate America can't get enough of my money. Sure. I can have my players meticulously copy their characters into Roll20 now, but why on earth did I just shell out $30 for an ONLINE Beyond copy of the PHB when I have one here in front of me? I assumed convenience. My bad...
I'm sorry if you were under the impression that Roll20 integration was an official feature, rather than a community developed extension. Note, however, that someone has "forked" the script that imported to Roll20, to accommodate the new setup. It remains unsupported and subject to change, and the person who is working on it knows there are lots of bugs, but the basic stuff works, apparently. You can find out about it here. There is also a Google Extension called Beyond20 that apparently still works.
Thanks. I do greatly appreciate the info. Yeah, I swore somewhere I read that Beyond was going to be supporting VTT play. Maybe I misinterpreted it. LOTS of information out there and much of it wrong. Hard to sort through the details when you're #adulting. :D
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Old enough to be a Grognard, Young at heart enough to enjoy 5e
It is on the DDB roadmap to implement a VTT of their own (due to popular demand), but that is in the far long term stage right now.
If you look under the Tools menu, that is the official stuff:
Character Builder Twitch Extension Encounter Builder (currently in public beta) Combat Tracker (currently in subscriber only alpha) Discord Bot
All of the other goodies (Foundry Import, Beyond20, etc) are community projects.
For what its worth, Beyond20 should still work with Roll20 right now. And I like using that rather than importing into Roll20, as I only have to maintain my character in one place (DDB).
It is up to Beyond to not break their stuff. They knew outright what they were doing when they took away the ability to pull the json file. This isn't something that they had to support but it is also something that they removed intentionally to keep us from doing it. Stop blowing smoke up their bums as you sound like a complete fool.
In the terms of sale: " (d) that digital goods made available by Fandom on D&D Beyond are only usable in conjunction with the D&D Beyond toolkits, and are not designed to be exported or used with other toolkits or systems". Now that could reasonably be interpreted two ways. One is that dandbeyond is not response if an "other toolkit or system" breaks because dandbeyond did someting (the json issue would fit that description). Personally I'd be OK with that (if disappointed). However it could also be read so as to *prohibit* use with other toolkits or systems. That I could not tolerate, and thus cannot subscribe.
In their Terms of use it states "Except as expressly permitted by the Company (for example with respect to the use of text content that is submitted to particular Fandom communities as permitted as set forth at our licensing page), you may not modify, publish, transmit, reproduce, scrape, create derivative works from, distribute, perform, adapt, aggregate, sell, transfer or in any way exploit any of the content, in whole or in part," I would read that as disallowing, for example, the use of Virtual Table Top Assets tools to import D&D Beyond material into Foundry VTT.
As it stands, that means it is costing D&D Beyond access to me as a potential subscriber -- unless someone can point me to an official statement that clarifies this in a different light.
It's kind of ridiculous. With just a bit more careful wording they could latch on to lots more customers.
It is up to Beyond to not break their stuff. They knew outright what they were doing when they took away the ability to pull the json file. This isn't something that they had to support but it is also something that they removed intentionally to keep us from doing it. Stop blowing smoke up their bums as you sound like a complete fool.
If you read a few posts above you, someone forked the development of Beyond20, so it is still possible to integrate Beyond with Roll20. Other third party tools also still work with other VTTs.
Beyond does not have a duty to cater to third party tool developers. Beyond also does not have a duty to provide services that they have never offered for sale. Beyond does have a duty to keep improving their character sheets since that is the service they are offering and selling. Public API access was never part of the deal. I rather have Beyond focus on making improvements to their character sheets, rather than trying to cater to every third party tool out there and further slow down the character sheet overhaul. I bought into Beyond for its character sheets and databases for making real-life, table-top play experience better. VTT integration or Beyond having their own VTT would be nice, but it is not a feature I care that deeply about and definitely not a feature I care to pay for.
DDB, just build a awesome VTT :P. I don't want to go anywhere but DDB to run my games with friends across the world. The "need" to take info from place to another will become a non-issue!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to see Virtual Table Top like no other before it built within DnDBeyond.com? Upvote the feature request. It's 2nd highest voted so far:
NOTE: You will need to setup a zendesk account (which is not your DnDBeyond.com account, the team uses this 3rd party software). It's easy to do and your votes are needed!
It should be easy to add a button for exporting calculated character stats as JSON on the front end.
After that, it should be possible to reuse the same logic to create a service on the back end that provides the same as an API. More work, but no need to tweak it every time a new feature is added.
It would be nice if Beyond did something to prove that this is truly a technically hard problem for them instead of relying on plausible deniability.
I have to agree the wording here is beyond ridiculous. Since terms like "scrape", "transmit", etc are not well defined - while I sincerely doubt they would pursue this avenue and this (likely, I am not a lawyer) does not pass the "reasonable person" standard, by all rights when you and I use a web browser to view our characters at all we are breaking the TOS. With wording that incredibly flexible and vague, it's frankly risky to use D&D beyond, by anyone, for any reason.
None of this would be an issue, except on the very first page, someone implied merely viewing a JSON file and pulling data out of it constituted "scraping". Now it may be that the moderator making that comment was working off a theory that HTML documents are ok to retrieve content from through a web browser but JSON documents are not, but I'm not sure it's worth the risk. Maybe they'll make some distinction regarding third party programs interacting with the data, and the format isn't important... but then we basically all have browser plugins that interact with web content in an automated fashion. You get the idea. Well meaning posts in this forum only add to that minefield. That is by no means inflammatory and is said with full sympathy; I realize the Fandom's team and you and I as forum members were put in the unenviable position of needing to do due diligence, protecting both the site we enjoy and their customers. I linked the profile only to make it clear which posts I was replying to. It is not the messageboard moderator's fault. It is Fandom's legal team's fault. I am not shooting the messenger.
In legal reality - again, I am not a lawyer - the only penalty for breaking either an EULA or T&C by a software company so far has typically been constituting breach of contract, and the consequence is typically denial of service - you don't hold up your end so we won't hold up ours. So while Fandom would be within their rights to send a cease-and-desist if you were hosting data outside an officially partnered service, as none of us were planning on doing that - we just want our darn third party tools to work! - likely the worst outcome you would find would be being locked out of your content, and even then that's iffy because cash exchanged hands, see the many class action lawsuits centered around DLC of which Meyer v Bethesda is probably the most famous currently, https://www.classaction.org/media/meyer-v-bethesda-softworks-llc.pdf .
So in all likelihood we are all probably totally safe. But the ambiguous tone in moderator comments is certainly offputting as is evidenced by many replies in this very thread.
1) DDB is owned by Fandom, not by Wizards of the Coast
2) I'm not sure what you mean by "the chilling tone from leadership." I would not call Mellie's replies "chilling," and at the time she posted them, I'm pretty sure she was a (volunteer) moderator, not yet staff. (Granted, the only way to know the latter is to have been active in the forums from early on.)
3) DDB staff have been aware of third party extensions like Beyond20 (and the now defunct Beyond Help, which I used to use) from the beginning. While they have consistently stated that they are unsupported, and that the elements of the site they rely on to work are subject to change, they have made no move to put an end to them. They have sometimes even expressed appreciation for the enthusiasm about DDB they represent. Most of those extensions have threads in the forums here, started by the creator of the extension, where people discuss the extension and report issues. If leadership were truly "chilling" about these extensions, those threads would have been eliminated.
I appreciate that and I certainly could have phrased that better. I need to offer my apologies to Mellie and I appreciate your patient reply as well.
I have to stand by the intent behind the word "chilling" though. Ambiguity with respect to a potential term of service violation when paid content is involved is terrifying. And it is Fandom (Not WOTC and I will edit my post)'s legal team's responsibility to make it clear what we are and are not allowed to download. I will use the word "ambiguous" instead of "chilling" when I edit my post, since ambiguous carries all the same emotional weight but is more clear.
All said I have found one officially supported and therefore safe way to export data outside the likely ok but hard to legally define case that is accessing content through a web browser (even though a data transfer that automation acts upon absolutely occurs) :
There is an officially supported export to pdf mechanism.
My concern I feel still has merit. Without my clumsy and frustrated language and the rest of my barn burner I regret because it distracted from what I was getting at but will leave alone with aforementioned edits since it has a response.
We paid Fandom
Many companies have handled DLC poorly
Many companies have used convenient definitions of scraping before, e.g. accessing content too frequently
Just as an example, I've been prevented from digging through articles when at University and had my paid-for privileges to look at paywalled content removed because I was skimming articles looking for references
Fandom's developers and staff, I am presuming, read these boards
Even if they don't, this is the only thread google will give me on this topic regardless how I phrase things
With all the above being true, at the very least, I needed to speak up about how this makes me feel as a customer and a developer who uses bots like Avrae in Discord.
I hope this post makes it a little easier to focus on the substance rather than, I will be the first to admit, my godawful style.
Or to put this more simply :
I believe we owe it to each other, if we are talking about this at all, to define what won't get us locked out of our content, if we are going to mention what will get us locked out of our content.
I just don't want to get locked out of content I paid for, that's really it. If a customer notices the JSON page doesn't exist, and goes looking for it, that customer should not be at risk.
I apologize for making three posts in a row but after walking away for a few minutes I thought I really needed to make my concern here clear and explain my use case.
Avrae for those that don't know is a discord bot that downloads things from your character sheet such as your spells, your proficiency bonuses, your stats, etc. Really the only thing it doesn't do just yet is inventory.
Avrae itself seems to be officially supported, and is going through the correct channels.
Let's say, though, that I sent a list of commands to Avrae, parsed what Avrae gave me, and stored that info in a database. Suddenly this situation looks a lot like scraping. (e. I am not doing that and am not interested in exploring this unless others are)
Now let's say, I'm a developer. I noticed that Avrae doesn't handle character equipment. I have another bot that ignores Avrae - but has the capability to not do this. And in that capability lies danger. We'll say that before coming here and learning more about this situation I set up my bot's commands to be triggered by the same keywords Avrae is triggered by, so that, just as an example, an equipment list I maintain manually (no material from D&D beyond pulled, we just enter our own equipment into a local database) is pulled up along with my character sheet.
Suddenly - even though I am doing no actual scraping - I am in a scary position - by all rights, it looks like I am sending commands to Avrae, and using Avrae as a scraper, and I have full permissions to do this.
But I was blissfully unaware of this and likely no harm would ever have occurred.
Except.
When doing research to see how Avrae was pulling data and what exactly D&D Beyond supports, I learn of a JSON file from old posts. When I visit the link I'm given, it doesn't work. I find out the reason why : it was never officially supported. That's all well and good. No problems so far.
But, along with the explanation for the JSON file not being there, there are people in what looks like an official support forum with what looks like administrative access mentioning things like "don't scrape or we'll lock you out of your account". Now, all of a sudden, an issue I didn't even really care about is affecting me. Now, it seems, people are already looking for behavior that could constitute scraping from customers that stopped using an unsupported feature. And no one in the support forum is really telling me what they mean by scraping. I just know
there was an exposed unsupported API
it's gone
people are talking about scraping to work around it
people doing so are being told "don't do that or you lose all the books you paid for"
I hope it makes it a little easier to understand why I am having kittens over this.
I thank you for the reply. I was late to the vtt integration with dndb thing. I should not have let my lack of facts and coincidental timing lead me to assume the worst of a developer. DnDB has always been good to me. In my decades of dealing with corporations and their unscrupulous practices (windows, game publishers,my own job, on and on) has made me reactionary to say the least. This does raise a concern for me though without officially having their own vtt or partnering with a vtt. The content might not be in the future useful for my needs so no more investment by me. Again thank you to ArwensDaughter for replying with calm explanations.
Well this all royally sucks, because I'd encouraged my players to make characters on D&D Beyond because I thought there was (well, I mean, there WAS) character integration with roll20. I am disappointed but not surprised by this. I've been shelling out money for 40 years over this game and once more, corporate America can't get enough of my money. Sure. I can have my players meticulously copy their characters into Roll20 now, but why on earth did I just shell out $30 for an ONLINE Beyond copy of the PHB when I have one here in front of me? I assumed convenience. My bad...
Old enough to be a Grognard,
Young at heart enough to enjoy 5e
I'm sorry if you were under the impression that Roll20 integration was an official feature, rather than a community developed extension. Note, however, that someone has "forked" the script that imported to Roll20, to accommodate the new setup. It remains unsupported and subject to change, and the person who is working on it knows there are lots of bugs, but the basic stuff works, apparently. You can find out about it here. There is also a Google Extension called Beyond20 that apparently still works.
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
Check your entitlements here. | Support Ticket LInk
Thanks. I do greatly appreciate the info. Yeah, I swore somewhere I read that Beyond was going to be supporting VTT play. Maybe I misinterpreted it. LOTS of information out there and much of it wrong. Hard to sort through the details when you're #adulting. :D
Old enough to be a Grognard,
Young at heart enough to enjoy 5e
It is on the DDB roadmap to implement a VTT of their own (due to popular demand), but that is in the far long term stage right now.
If you look under the Tools menu, that is the official stuff:
Character Builder
Twitch Extension
Encounter Builder (currently in public beta)
Combat Tracker (currently in subscriber only alpha)
Discord Bot
All of the other goodies (Foundry Import, Beyond20, etc) are community projects.
For what its worth, Beyond20 should still work with Roll20 right now. And I like using that rather than importing into Roll20, as I only have to maintain my character in one place (DDB).
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Yeah, Beyond20 was probably the solution all along.
Ok, this cranky Grognard is going back to map making, adventure writing, and my Diet Coke. ;)
Thanks for the info.
Old enough to be a Grognard,
Young at heart enough to enjoy 5e
It is up to Beyond to not break their stuff. They knew outright what they were doing when they took away the ability to pull the json file. This isn't something that they had to support but it is also something that they removed intentionally to keep us from doing it. Stop blowing smoke up their bums as you sound like a complete fool.
My concern here is their legalese, which states:
In the terms of sale: " (d) that digital goods made available by Fandom on D&D Beyond are only usable in conjunction with the D&D Beyond toolkits, and are not designed to be exported or used with other toolkits or systems". Now that could reasonably be interpreted two ways. One is that dandbeyond is not response if an "other toolkit or system" breaks because dandbeyond did someting (the json issue would fit that description). Personally I'd be OK with that (if disappointed). However it could also be read so as to *prohibit* use with other toolkits or systems. That I could not tolerate, and thus cannot subscribe.
In their Terms of use it states "Except as expressly permitted by the Company (for example with respect to the use of text content that is submitted to particular Fandom communities as permitted as set forth at our licensing page), you may not modify, publish, transmit, reproduce, scrape, create derivative works from, distribute, perform, adapt, aggregate, sell, transfer or in any way exploit any of the content, in whole or in part," I would read that as disallowing, for example, the use of Virtual Table Top Assets tools to import D&D Beyond material into Foundry VTT.
As it stands, that means it is costing D&D Beyond access to me as a potential subscriber -- unless someone can point me to an official statement that clarifies this in a different light.
It's kind of ridiculous. With just a bit more careful wording they could latch on to lots more customers.
JRJ
If you read a few posts above you, someone forked the development of Beyond20, so it is still possible to integrate Beyond with Roll20. Other third party tools also still work with other VTTs.
Beyond does not have a duty to cater to third party tool developers. Beyond also does not have a duty to provide services that they have never offered for sale. Beyond does have a duty to keep improving their character sheets since that is the service they are offering and selling. Public API access was never part of the deal. I rather have Beyond focus on making improvements to their character sheets, rather than trying to cater to every third party tool out there and further slow down the character sheet overhaul. I bought into Beyond for its character sheets and databases for making real-life, table-top play experience better. VTT integration or Beyond having their own VTT would be nice, but it is not a feature I care that deeply about and definitely not a feature I care to pay for.
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DDB, just build a awesome VTT :P. I don't want to go anywhere but DDB to run my games with friends across the world. The "need" to take info from place to another will become a non-issue!
Want to see Virtual Table Top like no other before it built within DnDBeyond.com? Upvote the feature request. It's 2nd highest voted so far:
https://dndbeyond.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/115008597088-Virtual-Tabletop-Gameboard
NOTE: You will need to setup a zendesk account (which is not your DnDBeyond.com account, the team uses this 3rd party software). It's easy to do and your votes are needed!
Finally got up the motivation to play D&D tonight and found out we can't import our characters into Roll20.
Totally killed my groups desire to play, now we are making alternate plans.
Beyond 20 works with the new changes last I knew. Did you try it? And I thought someone was working on the script to fix it, too.
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
Check your entitlements here. | Support Ticket LInk
I second that... Or YAML, or GraphQL, even XML.
It should be easy to add a button for exporting calculated character stats as JSON on the front end.
After that, it should be possible to reuse the same logic to create a service on the back end that provides the same as an API. More work, but no need to tweak it every time a new feature is added.
It would be nice if Beyond did something to prove that this is truly a technically hard problem for them instead of relying on plausible deniability.
I trying to get the JSON for roll20 but it doesn't show up. so can give to DM to use in the system.
I have to agree the wording here is beyond ridiculous. Since terms like "scrape", "transmit", etc are not well defined - while I sincerely doubt they would pursue this avenue and this (likely, I am not a lawyer) does not pass the "reasonable person" standard, by all rights when you and I use a web browser to view our characters at all we are breaking the TOS. With wording that incredibly flexible and vague, it's frankly risky to use D&D beyond, by anyone, for any reason.
None of this would be an issue, except on the very first page, someone implied merely viewing a JSON file and pulling data out of it constituted "scraping". Now it may be that the moderator making that comment was working off a theory that HTML documents are ok to retrieve content from through a web browser but JSON documents are not, but I'm not sure it's worth the risk. Maybe they'll make some distinction regarding third party programs interacting with the data, and the format isn't important... but then we basically all have browser plugins that interact with web content in an automated fashion. You get the idea. Well meaning posts in this forum only add to that minefield. That is by no means inflammatory and is said with full sympathy; I realize the Fandom's team and you and I as forum members were put in the unenviable position of needing to do due diligence, protecting both the site we enjoy and their customers. I linked the profile only to make it clear which posts I was replying to. It is not the messageboard moderator's fault. It is Fandom's legal team's fault. I am not shooting the messenger.
In legal reality - again, I am not a lawyer - the only penalty for breaking either an EULA or T&C by a software company so far has typically been constituting breach of contract, and the consequence is typically denial of service - you don't hold up your end so we won't hold up ours. So while Fandom would be within their rights to send a cease-and-desist if you were hosting data outside an officially partnered service, as none of us were planning on doing that - we just want our darn third party tools to work! - likely the worst outcome you would find would be being locked out of your content, and even then that's iffy because cash exchanged hands, see the many class action lawsuits centered around DLC of which Meyer v Bethesda is probably the most famous currently, https://www.classaction.org/media/meyer-v-bethesda-softworks-llc.pdf .
So in all likelihood we are all probably totally safe. But the ambiguous tone in moderator comments is certainly offputting as is evidenced by many replies in this very thread.
@St_Joan_d_Jett:
1) DDB is owned by Fandom, not by Wizards of the Coast
2) I'm not sure what you mean by "the chilling tone from leadership." I would not call Mellie's replies "chilling," and at the time she posted them, I'm pretty sure she was a (volunteer) moderator, not yet staff. (Granted, the only way to know the latter is to have been active in the forums from early on.)
3) DDB staff have been aware of third party extensions like Beyond20 (and the now defunct Beyond Help, which I used to use) from the beginning. While they have consistently stated that they are unsupported, and that the elements of the site they rely on to work are subject to change, they have made no move to put an end to them. They have sometimes even expressed appreciation for the enthusiasm about DDB they represent. Most of those extensions have threads in the forums here, started by the creator of the extension, where people discuss the extension and report issues. If leadership were truly "chilling" about these extensions, those threads would have been eliminated.
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
Check your entitlements here. | Support Ticket LInk
I appreciate that and I certainly could have phrased that better. I need to offer my apologies to Mellie and I appreciate your patient reply as well.
I have to stand by the intent behind the word "chilling" though. Ambiguity with respect to a potential term of service violation when paid content is involved is terrifying. And it is Fandom (Not WOTC and I will edit my post)'s legal team's responsibility to make it clear what we are and are not allowed to download. I will use the word "ambiguous" instead of "chilling" when I edit my post, since ambiguous carries all the same emotional weight but is more clear.
All said I have found one officially supported and therefore safe way to export data outside the likely ok but hard to legally define case that is accessing content through a web browser (even though a data transfer that automation acts upon absolutely occurs) :
There is an officially supported export to pdf mechanism.
E. Done editing the prior comment.
My concern I feel still has merit. Without my clumsy and frustrated language and the rest of my barn burner I regret because it distracted from what I was getting at but will leave alone with aforementioned edits since it has a response.
With all the above being true, at the very least, I needed to speak up about how this makes me feel as a customer and a developer who uses bots like Avrae in Discord.
I hope this post makes it a little easier to focus on the substance rather than, I will be the first to admit, my godawful style.
Or to put this more simply :
I believe we owe it to each other, if we are talking about this at all, to define what won't get us locked out of our content, if we are going to mention what will get us locked out of our content.
I just don't want to get locked out of content I paid for, that's really it. If a customer notices the JSON page doesn't exist, and goes looking for it, that customer should not be at risk.
I apologize for making three posts in a row but after walking away for a few minutes I thought I really needed to make my concern here clear and explain my use case.
Avrae for those that don't know is a discord bot that downloads things from your character sheet such as your spells, your proficiency bonuses, your stats, etc. Really the only thing it doesn't do just yet is inventory.
Avrae itself seems to be officially supported, and is going through the correct channels.
Let's say, though, that I sent a list of commands to Avrae, parsed what Avrae gave me, and stored that info in a database. Suddenly this situation looks a lot like scraping. (e. I am not doing that and am not interested in exploring this unless others are)
Now let's say, I'm a developer. I noticed that Avrae doesn't handle character equipment. I have another bot that ignores Avrae - but has the capability to not do this. And in that capability lies danger. We'll say that before coming here and learning more about this situation I set up my bot's commands to be triggered by the same keywords Avrae is triggered by, so that, just as an example, an equipment list I maintain manually (no material from D&D beyond pulled, we just enter our own equipment into a local database) is pulled up along with my character sheet.
Suddenly - even though I am doing no actual scraping - I am in a scary position - by all rights, it looks like I am sending commands to Avrae, and using Avrae as a scraper, and I have full permissions to do this.
But I was blissfully unaware of this and likely no harm would ever have occurred.
Except.
When doing research to see how Avrae was pulling data and what exactly D&D Beyond supports, I learn of a JSON file from old posts. When I visit the link I'm given, it doesn't work. I find out the reason why : it was never officially supported. That's all well and good. No problems so far.
But, along with the explanation for the JSON file not being there, there are people in what looks like an official support forum with what looks like administrative access mentioning things like "don't scrape or we'll lock you out of your account". Now, all of a sudden, an issue I didn't even really care about is affecting me. Now, it seems, people are already looking for behavior that could constitute scraping from customers that stopped using an unsupported feature. And no one in the support forum is really telling me what they mean by scraping. I just know
I hope it makes it a little easier to understand why I am having kittens over this.