No one solution will work for everyone, but I'd like to chime in with what has worked for me so far, especially in regards to multiple purchases of content. I think it boils down to using the best tools for the job, and for now I think I've found the tools that works best for me. One up-front thing to understand, my group plays in-person, though I have run online, VTT-based games before as well.
D&D Beyond is very good at character creation and management, so I ask all of my players create and maintain their characters here. I've purchased the player-focused content they require (PHB, SCAG, and XGE) here to save time. As needed, I create homebrew versions of items, spells, etc. DDB is *way* better than trying to decipher the chicken scratch on my players' paper sheets (and they can still print their characters if they want paper at the table).
I use Fantasy Grounds for maps (currently building a gaming table with built-in TV!), adventure modules, monster stats, and campaign info. I've bought adventure books/modules for use there and from DMsGuild, plus also use FG to build homebrew story stuff. I've tried Roll20, but it clearly gets much more expensive than FG after only a short time, and isn't as mature as FG (yet). The ~$35 for a Fantasy Grounds standard license I bought in 2007 has been more than worth every penny. I've only had to buy content since then.
While I'm on the subject, while Fantasy Grounds has a combat tracker, I prefer to use Improved Initiative for that. I prep encounters in there ahead of time (manually entering monster stats, if needed, which takes only a minute or so per monster) and I also entered the basics of the PCs there, so I can track things like HP if I want to.
And for the actual books, the ones I don't already have are on my Amazon wish list. I usually get one or two when the holidays or birthday come around, so that satisfies my desire to have a bookshelf full of D&D books... :D
Anyway, I guess my point is there's no need to buy all the content here and all the content there. You can buy only what you need here and only what you need elsewhere. I make use of the sales when possible, so I don't feel tempted to buy the Legendary Bundle. Also, all of these tools allow you to manually enter whatever you need. If you already own the books, and then buy the digital versions also, what you're buying is convenience and time savings.
All that said, I'll admit I do own the Complete Bundle on FG, but I bought into that way before D&D Beyond existed... 0:)
I've tried Roll20, but it clearly gets much more expensive than FG after only a short time, and isn't as mature as FG (yet). The ~$35 for a Fantasy Grounds standard license I bought in 2007 has been more than worth every penny. I've only had to buy content since then.
On Fantasy Grounds, either everyone in the group must have a Standard account ($40 each) or one person must have an Ultimate account ($149).
On Roll20 everyone can play for free, for as long as they want. The only caveat is that you have a limited amount of storage space, but if you're okay with that, you can totally all play for free forever.
Alternately on Roll20 the DM can pay the $49.99/year to get more storage space (and dynamic lighting if you're into that sort of thing), and the other players can still all play for free.
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You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
@mjsoctober Fair points, and for many people the free tier of Roll20 is a great option. But as I said, I wrote about what has worked for me. Since we all have different needs and expectations, YMMV. Unfortunately, storage space isn't the only feature that requires a paid tier. For the features I would want to use, Roll20's subscription out-costs FG easily. For example, the free tier of Roll20 has ads, and that is a cost (not $ but still a cost). Roll20 took work to make and maintain, and its creators deserve to get paid, of course. So, either I deal with the ads or pay the minimum level set to remove them ($50/yr). That first year alone is more than I've spent on Fantasy Grounds itself in 11 years, and I at least plan on playing for many more years. I don't like ads, so I choose to use an already ad-free platform that for me costs less, and that's Fantasy Grounds.
I play mostly in person, and the players are managing their characters with D&D Beyond and not using FG, so I'm the only one paying for a FG license. That $35 I spent ages ago is still working for me. My situation here may not be common, or maybe it is. The times I've used it as an actual VTT, the players had their own licenses of whatever level (their costs are not mine to account for and none of my business). Roll20's paid tiers do have some features Fantasy Grounds doesn't yet have, and vice versa. Again, YMMV and in the end both are good options.
But, this isn't a FG vs Roll20 thread. There are plenty of those already. ;)
I hope my point about only buying relevant content here or there helps someone think about it differently than "I don't want to buy everything here and then again over there." Of course, another tool could come along tomorrow and I might be faced with the decision about buying some of the content again!
@notrealdan Good points. Yes, it all depends on what you need/want to do. I've used both, and for me, I'm good with Roll20. In the end, we are actually pretty fortunate that there are as many well developed options as there are!
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You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
I DM face to face at the moment, but as a player, I play online for the most part. I would love the ability to use DDB as a port for my games, my players and me as a player. I'm just one more voice out there asking for some kind of VTT integration. It would just be lovely. But you probably won't get any more money out of me if you do (that being said because I have a year's subscription to the master level tear, and have purchased the legendary bundle already.)
Without a VTT or some form of integration with any tool that's used to run sessions of online play, DDB is sadly no matter how nice i find it, a useless site for online play. Sure, its great if you play offline with friends and instead of pen and paper want to keep a digital sheet, but if your playing online on sites like Roll20 or similar, those sites require you to fill in another sheet to automate your stats for rolling etc anyway and then maintaining two sheets is just pointless.
We need some sort of update on how these plans are coming along if anything, or if its all been scrapped then it would be nice to know as well. Considering i've only seen DDB mentioned once of the hundreds of games i've viewed on Roll20 when looking for new games to join, and then only as a suggestion on how to easily create a random throwaway NPC henchman, i think you guys are missing out on a ton of business if you where able to tap into the part of the market with people who mainly play online.
Without a VTT or some form of integration with any tool that's used to run sessions of online play, DDB is sadly no matter how nice i find it, a useless site for online play. Sure, its great if you play offline with friends and instead of pen and paper want to keep a digital sheet, but if your playing online on sites like Roll20 or similar, those sites require you to fill in another sheet to automate your stats for rolling etc anyway and then maintaining two sheets is just pointless.
We need some sort of update on how these plans are coming along if anything, or if its all been scrapped then it would be nice to know as well. Considering i've only seen DDB mentioned once of the hundreds of games i've viewed on Roll20 when looking for new games to join, and then only as a suggestion on how to easily create a random throwaway NPC henchman, i think you guys are missing out on a ton of business if you where able to tap into the part of the market with people who mainly play online.
Unless something major has changed, DDB staff (including Bad Eye) have said repeatedly here and on the dev stream they have no plans for a VTT.
You can still use Roll20 for sharing maps and tokens, and then roll real dice for rolls.
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You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
I don't see the need for a VTT... Bad Eye has mentioned it's on the table to work with current VTT sites once the new character sheet is done. Talks with them have been on going. I'm gurguess it's just a matter of figuring out the API... Which is also being worked on.
Now that we have homebrew archetypes, I think Roll20 integration would be the next biggest thing DDB could do. All of my gaming (as a DM and a player) is online, with about 90% of that happening through Roll20. Right now I frequently copy things back and forth between the DDB character sheets and the Roll20 character sheets. I would love if I could export DDB characters into a file that I could import into Roll20, or even better if I could just have characters be synced between the two services via an API.
EDIT: If financing is a concern, you could have character exports/imports only be available to premium subscribers (either DDB or Roll20, but not both) and have synced API characters be available to users that have premium accounts on both services.
EDIT 2: I'm fairly invested in the Roll20 VTT at this moment (I was an original Kickstarter backer and have invested much more since then), but this is the only thing that could get me to switch from Roll20 to FantasyGrounds or PowerVTT. If I could sync characters and possibly content from DDB to FantasyGrounds or PowerVTT, but not Roll20, I'd actually reinvest everything I have into that platform. That would be a hefty cost, but I'm working towards paid DMing so it would be worth it to me.
Not the next big thing. From the stats I’ve seen of VTT, the vast majority of users play around the table, not online. Campaign management and encounter tracking should be far higher priorities than VTT integration (although I’m not saying that shouldn’t happen).
I tried it, and it's not currently working for me. I sent the creator the error message I received, and hopefully that will get resolved soon - it would save me a lot of trouble! Thanks for pointing it out!
Just leaving my feedback. This is my biggest issue with both roll20 and dnd beyond. Honestly, I was very excited for dnd beyond but at this point I own physical copies of 4 player handbooks, dmg, mm, both tyranny of dragons, curse of strahd, in to the abyss, dm screen, and a few more books (not sure if they are official.)
So I've made quite the investment for an average player. I also maintain a paid roll20 account. At this point there's no way I'm putting more money in to dnd beyond.
Can I send my books back and unlock content? That might almost be worth it. I'm very disappointed at this stage. And to be honest, I still use pathfinder references half the time when looking up content just because the ease of access. You are the forerunner of this industry and I hope you figure out how to productize this without falling short.
2nd edition content was so detailed and didn't have gaps all over the place. The content built a lifelong customer out of me. Paying $40 for a boxed set or $15 for a handbook seemed like a no brainer because of all the good, quality content. 3rd, amazing, so many good ideas, maybe too much spread too far, but still worthwhile. I've got nothing for 4th, bought the core books, couldn't get anyone to play. 5ed content is weak. Lacking npc stats, town stats, adventures that have no guidance, and now a very lackluster break in to a more mobile friendly, web based delivery of content.
I know mistakes were made in 4th but y'all need to step up, please!
5ed rules are amazing, back to a focus on playing, simplifying many aspects of the game, etc. But the content, just ick. Trust me it's not so awesome you can guard it as much as you are trying. Get your heads in to 2018. Or shoot for 2014 even. Loosen up a little, build faithful players!
Just leaving my feedback. This is my biggest issue with both roll20 and dnd beyond. Honestly, I was very excited for dnd beyond but at this point I own physical copies of 4 player handbooks, dmg, mm, both tyranny of dragons, curse of strahd, in to the abyss, dm screen, and a few more books (not sure if they are official.)
So I've made quite the investment for an average player. I also maintain a paid roll20 account. At this point there's no way I'm putting more money in to dnd beyond.
You have every right to choose not to spend money on DDB. I want to say that right off the bat, because I want to be clear that I'm not trying to get you to spend money on DDB, I'm only trying to clarify some points and respond to your questions.
Can I send my books back and unlock content? That might almost be worth it.
While you can't send your books back to unlock things here, there are folks here who have sold their physical books and used the proceeds to purchase content on DDB.
I'm very disappointed at this stage. And to be honest, I still use pathfinder references half the time when looking up content just because the ease of access. You are the forerunner of this industry and I hope you figure out how to productize this without falling short.
2nd edition content was so detailed and didn't have gaps all over the place. The content built a lifelong customer out of me. Paying $40 for a boxed set or $15 for a handbook seemed like a no brainer because of all the good, quality content. 3rd, amazing, so many good ideas, maybe too much spread too far, but still worthwhile. I've got nothing for 4th, bought the core books, couldn't get anyone to play. 5ed content is weak. Lacking npc stats, town stats, adventures that have no guidance, and now a very lackluster break in to a more mobile friendly, web based delivery of content.
I know mistakes were made in 4th but y'all need to step up, please!
5ed rules are amazing, back to a focus on playing, simplifying many aspects of the game, etc. But the content, just ick. Trust me it's not so awesome you can guard it as much as you are trying. Get your heads in to 2018. Or shoot for 2014 even. Loosen up a little, build faithful players!
Reading the above, I have the impression that you think that DDB is owned, built, and managed by WOTC. It is not. DDB has no control over the quality of the official content. So I'm not sure why you are complaining about that here, given that no one here can address that.
As an aside, I'm curious what you find "weak" about 5e content, but, as I said, staff here have no control over that.
I play with my far flung friends on line via Roll20. We've been playing 3.5, but I'm getting ready to DM a 5e campaign. I've found DDB very helpful, as well as the WOTC content in Roll20; Drag&Drop monsters are a dream compared to making EVERYTHING for 3.5!
However, at about $49.99 per major supplement (MM, Volo's, etc) on Roll20, and $29.99 for the DDB version of the same, this is getting expensive. Yes, the players benefit from each, so sharing in the cost would be possible. Similar as ArwensDaughter pointed out, this would not be a DDB issue as much as a WOTC issue. As talks of integration continue, I hope it is kept in mind that asking DM's to purchase the same thing twice is asking a lot.
I would not mind at all paying the surcharge on Roll20 for the added work of making the content drag and drop (+$20). Perhaps WOTC could consider a purchase code to enable that discount? We know this is about profit; making it win-win all around, growing the community, while avoiding feelings of being double charged will in the long run produce more happy customers handing over their gold pressed latinum for the next supplement.
Is there a way to subscribe or track a thread? Cuz I would very much be interested I hearing about any developments
You just did by posting here. Otherwise, should you have other threads you are not interested into commenting, but just following, you can use the ‘Subscribe’ option under ‘Tools’ at the top of the thread page to do that.
on mobile you might need to either go into landscape or desktop mode to see the button.
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
This thread should not be about whether or not somebody is willing to pay for the same content on multiple platforms. It is about DDB integration with FG or Roll20. If there is a solution that comes with a price, that´s fine with me. If it is for free, it’s even better.
No offense, but Is it really necessary to discuss this in every other thread on this forum?
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No one solution will work for everyone, but I'd like to chime in with what has worked for me so far, especially in regards to multiple purchases of content. I think it boils down to using the best tools for the job, and for now I think I've found the tools that works best for me. One up-front thing to understand, my group plays in-person, though I have run online, VTT-based games before as well.
D&D Beyond is very good at character creation and management, so I ask all of my players create and maintain their characters here. I've purchased the player-focused content they require (PHB, SCAG, and XGE) here to save time. As needed, I create homebrew versions of items, spells, etc. DDB is *way* better than trying to decipher the chicken scratch on my players' paper sheets (and they can still print their characters if they want paper at the table).
I use Fantasy Grounds for maps (currently building a gaming table with built-in TV!), adventure modules, monster stats, and campaign info. I've bought adventure books/modules for use there and from DMsGuild, plus also use FG to build homebrew story stuff. I've tried Roll20, but it clearly gets much more expensive than FG after only a short time, and isn't as mature as FG (yet). The ~$35 for a Fantasy Grounds standard license I bought in 2007 has been more than worth every penny. I've only had to buy content since then.
While I'm on the subject, while Fantasy Grounds has a combat tracker, I prefer to use Improved Initiative for that. I prep encounters in there ahead of time (manually entering monster stats, if needed, which takes only a minute or so per monster) and I also entered the basics of the PCs there, so I can track things like HP if I want to.
And for the actual books, the ones I don't already have are on my Amazon wish list. I usually get one or two when the holidays or birthday come around, so that satisfies my desire to have a bookshelf full of D&D books... :D
Anyway, I guess my point is there's no need to buy all the content here and all the content there. You can buy only what you need here and only what you need elsewhere. I make use of the sales when possible, so I don't feel tempted to buy the Legendary Bundle. Also, all of these tools allow you to manually enter whatever you need. If you already own the books, and then buy the digital versions also, what you're buying is convenience and time savings.
All that said, I'll admit I do own the Complete Bundle on FG, but I bought into that way before D&D Beyond existed... 0:)
@notrealdan I have to disagree with this.
On Fantasy Grounds, either everyone in the group must have a Standard account ($40 each) or one person must have an Ultimate account ($149).
On Roll20 everyone can play for free, for as long as they want. The only caveat is that you have a limited amount of storage space, but if you're okay with that, you can totally all play for free forever.
Alternately on Roll20 the DM can pay the $49.99/year to get more storage space (and dynamic lighting if you're into that sort of thing), and the other players can still all play for free.
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
@mjsoctober Fair points, and for many people the free tier of Roll20 is a great option. But as I said, I wrote about what has worked for me. Since we all have different needs and expectations, YMMV. Unfortunately, storage space isn't the only feature that requires a paid tier. For the features I would want to use, Roll20's subscription out-costs FG easily. For example, the free tier of Roll20 has ads, and that is a cost (not $ but still a cost). Roll20 took work to make and maintain, and its creators deserve to get paid, of course. So, either I deal with the ads or pay the minimum level set to remove them ($50/yr). That first year alone is more than I've spent on Fantasy Grounds itself in 11 years, and I at least plan on playing for many more years. I don't like ads, so I choose to use an already ad-free platform that for me costs less, and that's Fantasy Grounds.
I play mostly in person, and the players are managing their characters with D&D Beyond and not using FG, so I'm the only one paying for a FG license. That $35 I spent ages ago is still working for me. My situation here may not be common, or maybe it is. The times I've used it as an actual VTT, the players had their own licenses of whatever level (their costs are not mine to account for and none of my business). Roll20's paid tiers do have some features Fantasy Grounds doesn't yet have, and vice versa. Again, YMMV and in the end both are good options.
But, this isn't a FG vs Roll20 thread. There are plenty of those already. ;)
I hope my point about only buying relevant content here or there helps someone think about it differently than "I don't want to buy everything here and then again over there." Of course, another tool could come along tomorrow and I might be faced with the decision about buying some of the content again!
(Edited to clarify the playing in person bit.)
@notrealdan Good points. Yes, it all depends on what you need/want to do. I've used both, and for me, I'm good with Roll20. In the end, we are actually pretty fortunate that there are as many well developed options as there are!
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
I DM face to face at the moment, but as a player, I play online for the most part.
I would love the ability to use DDB as a port for my games, my players and me as a player.
I'm just one more voice out there asking for some kind of VTT integration. It would just be lovely.
But you probably won't get any more money out of me if you do (that being said because I have a year's subscription to the master level tear, and have purchased the legendary bundle already.)
Without a VTT or some form of integration with any tool that's used to run sessions of online play, DDB is sadly no matter how nice i find it, a useless site for online play. Sure, its great if you play offline with friends and instead of pen and paper want to keep a digital sheet, but if your playing online on sites like Roll20 or similar, those sites require you to fill in another sheet to automate your stats for rolling etc anyway and then maintaining two sheets is just pointless.
We need some sort of update on how these plans are coming along if anything, or if its all been scrapped then it would be nice to know as well. Considering i've only seen DDB mentioned once of the hundreds of games i've viewed on Roll20 when looking for new games to join, and then only as a suggestion on how to easily create a random throwaway NPC henchman, i think you guys are missing out on a ton of business if you where able to tap into the part of the market with people who mainly play online.
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
I don't see the need for a VTT... Bad Eye has mentioned it's on the table to work with current VTT sites once the new character sheet is done. Talks with them have been on going. I'm gurguess it's just a matter of figuring out the API... Which is also being worked on.
Now that we have homebrew archetypes, I think Roll20 integration would be the next biggest thing DDB could do. All of my gaming (as a DM and a player) is online, with about 90% of that happening through Roll20. Right now I frequently copy things back and forth between the DDB character sheets and the Roll20 character sheets. I would love if I could export DDB characters into a file that I could import into Roll20, or even better if I could just have characters be synced between the two services via an API.
EDIT: If financing is a concern, you could have character exports/imports only be available to premium subscribers (either DDB or Roll20, but not both) and have synced API characters be available to users that have premium accounts on both services.
EDIT 2: I'm fairly invested in the Roll20 VTT at this moment (I was an original Kickstarter backer and have invested much more since then), but this is the only thing that could get me to switch from Roll20 to FantasyGrounds or PowerVTT. If I could sync characters and possibly content from DDB to FantasyGrounds or PowerVTT, but not Roll20, I'd actually reinvest everything I have into that platform. That would be a hefty cost, but I'm working towards paid DMing so it would be worth it to me.
Subclasses: Path of the Marauder, Way of the Golden Fist, Way of the Yamabushi. Feats: Melee Training, Olympian Physique. Spells: Arcane Recall, Banker's Purse, Coin Shot, Moonfire Blade.
Not the next big thing. From the stats I’ve seen of VTT, the vast majority of users play around the table, not online. Campaign management and encounter tracking should be far higher priorities than VTT integration (although I’m not saying that shouldn’t happen).
@Jedd: You might be interested in this API script that allows importing of characters from DND Beyond into Roll20. https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/6248700/script-beta-beyondimporter-import-dndbeyond-character-sheets
I tried it, and it's not currently working for me. I sent the creator the error message I received, and hopefully that will get resolved soon - it would save me a lot of trouble! Thanks for pointing it out!
Subclasses: Path of the Marauder, Way of the Golden Fist, Way of the Yamabushi. Feats: Melee Training, Olympian Physique. Spells: Arcane Recall, Banker's Purse, Coin Shot, Moonfire Blade.
Just leaving my feedback. This is my biggest issue with both roll20 and dnd beyond. Honestly, I was very excited for dnd beyond but at this point I own physical copies of 4 player handbooks, dmg, mm, both tyranny of dragons, curse of strahd, in to the abyss, dm screen, and a few more books (not sure if they are official.)
So I've made quite the investment for an average player. I also maintain a paid roll20 account. At this point there's no way I'm putting more money in to dnd beyond.
Can I send my books back and unlock content? That might almost be worth it. I'm very disappointed at this stage. And to be honest, I still use pathfinder references half the time when looking up content just because the ease of access. You are the forerunner of this industry and I hope you figure out how to productize this without falling short.
2nd edition content was so detailed and didn't have gaps all over the place. The content built a lifelong customer out of me. Paying $40 for a boxed set or $15 for a handbook seemed like a no brainer because of all the good, quality content. 3rd, amazing, so many good ideas, maybe too much spread too far, but still worthwhile. I've got nothing for 4th, bought the core books, couldn't get anyone to play. 5ed content is weak. Lacking npc stats, town stats, adventures that have no guidance, and now a very lackluster break in to a more mobile friendly, web based delivery of content.
I know mistakes were made in 4th but y'all need to step up, please!
5ed rules are amazing, back to a focus on playing, simplifying many aspects of the game, etc. But the content, just ick. Trust me it's not so awesome you can guard it as much as you are trying. Get your heads in to 2018. Or shoot for 2014 even. Loosen up a little, build faithful players!
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
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I play with my far flung friends on line via Roll20. We've been playing 3.5, but I'm getting ready to DM a 5e campaign. I've found DDB very helpful, as well as the WOTC content in Roll20; Drag&Drop monsters are a dream compared to making EVERYTHING for 3.5!
However, at about $49.99 per major supplement (MM, Volo's, etc) on Roll20, and $29.99 for the DDB version of the same, this is getting expensive. Yes, the players benefit from each, so sharing in the cost would be possible. Similar as ArwensDaughter pointed out, this would not be a DDB issue as much as a WOTC issue. As talks of integration continue, I hope it is kept in mind that asking DM's to purchase the same thing twice is asking a lot.
I would not mind at all paying the surcharge on Roll20 for the added work of making the content drag and drop (+$20). Perhaps WOTC could consider a purchase code to enable that discount? We know this is about profit; making it win-win all around, growing the community, while avoiding feelings of being double charged will in the long run produce more happy customers handing over their gold pressed latinum for the next supplement.
Is there a way to subscribe or track a thread? Cuz I would very much be interested I hearing about any developments
DM: Three separate games of Lost Mine of Phandelver x Dragon of Icespire Peak x Tyranny of Dragons x Kobold press one-shots x homebrew content
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
This thread should not be about whether or not somebody is willing to pay for the same content on multiple platforms. It is about DDB integration with FG or Roll20. If there is a solution that comes with a price, that´s fine with me. If it is for free, it’s even better.
No offense, but Is it really necessary to discuss this in every other thread on this forum?