The crux of this whole discussion is about business decisions related to licensing rights. Yep, we get it. WotC and DDB are not the same company. But there is a pretty clear business strategy involved when looking at the fact that DDB is owned by Curse, who is owned by Twitch, who can claim Amazon as their parent company. DDB is a D&D focused platform that enjoys a close relationship with WotC in terms of interacting with the company, as well as having licensing rights to all of the 5e catalog. Roll20 is a multi-system platform that does not have the backing of media giants.
If Roll20 had the same reach that DDB does, through it's lineage of parent companies, we would be having a different discussion. You would see a either a much greater focus on integration between the two platforms, or licensing rights would be granted to Roll20 for all of the 5e content catalog. This is not a judgement with how WotC and DDB are conducting their business. But the argument to separate DDB from WotC, in the context of what content and features are available vs other platforms, is becoming tired. WotC and DDB are very clearly coupled with respect to business directives.
The crux of this whole discussion is about business decisions related to licensing rights. Yep, we get it. WotC and DDB are not the same company. But there is a pretty clear business strategy involved when looking at the fact that DDB is owned by Curse, who is owned by Twitch, who can claim Amazon as their parent company. DDB is a D&D focused platform that enjoys a close relationship with WotC in terms of interacting with the company, as well as having licensing rights to all of the 5e catalog. Roll20 is a multi-system platform that does not have the backing of media giants.
If Roll20 had the same reach that DDB does, through it's lineage of parent companies, we would be having a different discussion. You would see a either a much greater focus on integration between the two platforms, or licensing rights would be granted to Roll20 for all of the 5e content catalog. This is not a judgement with how WotC and DDB are conducting their business. But the argument to separate DDB from WotC, in the context of what content and features are available vs other platforms, is becoming tired. WotC and DDB are very clearly coupled with respect to business directives.
Unfortunately this is incorrect. Roll20 has the same rights to all the 5e content, they have chosen not to create Roll20 versions of all 5e content.
The weekend DDB launched its final version I contacted Roll20 to ask if they were ever going to have a PHB for use on their platform. I pointed out that I would gladly purchase from them so I could enjoy the integration with Roll20, but given that DDB was launching with a sale price, I wanted to know Roll20's plans for the PHB.
I was told by the owner of Roll20 that they have "big plans" for their PHB integration and they want to make sure they "do it right". They have the license to do it, it's just not their priority.
Roll20 has:
Monster Manual
Volo's Guide
LMoP
SKT
Curse of Strahd
TftYP
ToA
Rise of Tiamat
HotDQ
Princes of the Apocalypse
MToF
In other words, Roll20 has everything but the PHB, DMG, SCAG, and XGtE (all books with PC options), and its not because of licensing.
Should also point out the Fantasy Grounds has ALL the same books DDB has, and for the same prices that DDB has them, like the PHB for $29.99. Why aren't people asking to unlock their PHBs on FG?
I stand corrected. Thank you for the information. This definitely changes my perspective on DDB. VTT integration / VTT functionality is not needed. I should be able to get all that I need from Roll20.
So... I integrate DND Beyond with Roll20 by making my characters in DND Beyond, then transferring the information over to Roll20 via copy and paste.
Once I have my character the way I want it on DND Beyond, it only takes me at most 30 minutes to get in onto Roll20. The spells that aren't in the little i thing take the longest.
I'm waiting for DND Beyond to create their own VTT that will import/use characters from our character list. I can see how this may cause the free 6x character limit to really be an issue if peeps are in multiple games. $2.99/month (less the 10¢/day) is worth it to get the unlimited characters.
I guess there will be no integration with Roll20 anymore. They released their Charactermancer and added the PHB to their Content. The PHB is not for free, but it seems that they want to offer the same functionality as DDB.
As long as DDB has no virtual table of their own, I have to use Roll20 for my games. It works for now, but it is ugly and clumsy and I wish there would be a professional solution.
But now there might be hope that DDB comes up their own VTT.
And DNDB isn't designed for online play. It's designed to make the tabletop in person more streamlined. Don't expect a VTT as it doesn't fit with their business model. An API import is the best you'll get and bow. With shareable links etc it will be easier to import now.
5ed rules are amazing, back to a focus on playing, simplifying many aspects of the game, etc. But the content, just ick. Trust me it's not so awesome you can guard it as much as you are trying. Get your heads in to 2018. Or shoot for 2014 even. Loosen up a little, build faithful players!
You do realise the D&D has more players than ever and last year was their biggest ever? 5e is alive and very very healthy. Not that they can be complacent, but they are certainly having no trouble building faithful players.
Whoa, this is awesome! I don't currently have a pro account--cruddy video plus the fact that we don't actually use grids/tokens forced my group to abandon r20--but this would be super, super helpful if I do go back.
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DM: The Cult of the Crystal Spider (Currently playing Storm King's Thunder) Player: The Knuckles of Arth - Lemire (Tiefling Rogue 5/Fighter 1)
And DNDB isn't designed for online play. It's designed to make the tabletop in person more streamlined. Don't expect a VTT as it doesn't fit with their business model. An API import is the best you'll get and bow. With shareable links etc it will be easier to import now.
While i agree that a VTT isnt currently a part of DnDB's business model, anyone who make a online tool/site that IS NOT intended for online use, that is like building a car and intentionally leaving the wheels out of the schematics. Why choose to do only one of the two when you could have done both..
And DNDB isn't designed for online play. It's designed to make the tabletop in person more streamlined. Don't expect a VTT as it doesn't fit with their business model. An API import is the best you'll get and bow. With shareable links etc it will be easier to import now.
While i agree that a VTT isnt currently a part of DnDB's business model, anyone who make a online tool/site that IS NOT intended for online use, that is like building a car and intentionally leaving the wheels out of the schematics. Why choose to do only one of the two when you could have done both..
DDB and VTTs are entirely different products. It would not be such a simple matter to add VTT functionality to DDB and I would bet that most of the development that's been done on DDB wouldn't apply to VTT features much at all. They would either need to acquire an existing VTT or start from scratch. I don't see either happening, realistically, though I suppose anything could change. Personally, I would prefer they not try to do VTT in DDB.
The car metaphor would instead be more like, "Why choose to only build a car when you could have also built a boat?" It would be a massive investment of time and money, probably requiring years of development to catch up to where existing VTTs have been for a long time. All that would directly take away from what they could be doing with DDB. I'd much prefer that effort be put into making DDB the best it can be, for the intended purpose.
Some way to spit out a file that can be imported to Fantasy Grounds would be nice, but it also doesn't take long to enter a character manually into FG once it's been built already in DDB.
The language that BadEye is using now regarding future VTT implementation has changed from what it used to be in the Q&A livestreams.
He used to say that there are no plans in the works when this would come up. Now he is saying that he can't speak on any future features, but there are some exciting things in the pipeline that have yet to be announced (full disclosure: I'm paraphrasing from memory, but check the past couple of livestreams and see if you notice the change as well). That, to me, implies that something has changed regarding this position. While this may not mean a fully-fleshed out VTT, it may point to some kind of virtual map tool/handout functionality.
I would even accept a discount/partial credit situation. I, like many, own both hard copies and digital copies on Fantasy Grounds. I cannot justify paying for a 3rd full price copy of things I already own twice.
I would even accept a discount/partial credit situation. I, like many, own both hard copies and digital copies on Fantasy Grounds. I cannot justify paying for a 3rd full price copy of things I already own twice.
Please let's not start this again. There is an entire thread dedicated to why there is no discount for owning any other versions of the books. Please go there to read through if you are so inclined, but not here. :-@
The language that BadEye is using now regarding future VTT implementation has changed from what it used to be in the Q&A livestreams.
He used to say that there are no plans in the works when this would come up. Now he is saying that he can't speak on any future features, but there are some exciting things in the pipeline that have yet to be announced (full disclosure: I'm paraphrasing from memory, but check the past couple of livestreams and see if you notice the change as well). That, to me, implies that something has changed regarding this position. While this may not mean a fully-fleshed out VTT, it may point to some kind of virtual map tool/handout functionality.
Can someone provide a source for this? I'm very interested in finding out more.
I think R20's recent charactermancer implementation is somehow related to DnDBeyond - either as a first step to integration (I hope so) or as an attempt to compete with DnDBeyond (in which case it's no where close). Pretty much as soon as any of the three current players offer integration (whether it's R20, FG, or Astral (formerly PowerVTT)) they are getting my business. I currently do all my games on R20, but if someone else gets there first, I'll give R20 up to three months to catch up - then I'm switching.
If DDB had nothing more than a grid where you can upload tokens (linked to character sheets and monster stats) and background images, I'd probably switch to that first. Curse could probably get there pretty quickly if they bought Astral VTT and integrated it.
I'm with you, Jedd. I run my games on Roll20, but would switch to DDB completely in a sec and subscribe annually if they added a VTT.
When DDB launched the final versions of the core books with their sale prices, I contacted Roll20 to ask them if they had plans to launch their own full core books soon or not. I pointed out that Fantasy Grounds had already had the core books for at least a year, and now DDB had them, and that if Roll20 were going to launch their's soon I would wait for them. Their response was basically "Nope, we are working to make something awesome. Sorry, no more info."
Since there weren't willing to commit to anything concrete, I went with DDB to get the sale price. Roll 20 lost their chance, and I have no intention of buying the books on Roll20 now when I can just copy/paste.
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You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
I have been playing DnD on Roll20 for the past 5 and a half years. I was really excited when they started offering official 5e material there and immediately purchased a few modules and eventually the PHB. Since then I became disappointed that support to access this material on my phone or tablet is pretty limited. Not only that but the cost is higher than the books I have purchased on Ddb. I was a paid subscriber to roll20 up until recently. It just doesn't seem like the service is improving and the interface can still be frustrating for a DM. I would really love to see a VTT crop up here on DDB, especially if it could rival or even compete with what is being offered at FG or Roll20. I would be a lifetime subscriber if they went that route.
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The crux of this whole discussion is about business decisions related to licensing rights. Yep, we get it. WotC and DDB are not the same company. But there is a pretty clear business strategy involved when looking at the fact that DDB is owned by Curse, who is owned by Twitch, who can claim Amazon as their parent company. DDB is a D&D focused platform that enjoys a close relationship with WotC in terms of interacting with the company, as well as having licensing rights to all of the 5e catalog. Roll20 is a multi-system platform that does not have the backing of media giants.
If Roll20 had the same reach that DDB does, through it's lineage of parent companies, we would be having a different discussion. You would see a either a much greater focus on integration between the two platforms, or licensing rights would be granted to Roll20 for all of the 5e content catalog. This is not a judgement with how WotC and DDB are conducting their business. But the argument to separate DDB from WotC, in the context of what content and features are available vs other platforms, is becoming tired. WotC and DDB are very clearly coupled with respect to business directives.
In other words, Roll20 has everything but the PHB, DMG, SCAG, and XGtE (all books with PC options), and its not because of licensing.
Should also point out the Fantasy Grounds has ALL the same books DDB has, and for the same prices that DDB has them, like the PHB for $29.99. Why aren't people asking to unlock their PHBs on FG?
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
I stand corrected. Thank you for the information. This definitely changes my perspective on DDB. VTT integration / VTT functionality is not needed. I should be able to get all that I need from Roll20.
So... I integrate DND Beyond with Roll20 by making my characters in DND Beyond, then transferring the information over to Roll20 via copy and paste.
Once I have my character the way I want it on DND Beyond, it only takes me at most 30 minutes to get in onto Roll20. The spells that aren't in the little i thing take the longest.
I'm waiting for DND Beyond to create their own VTT that will import/use characters from our character list. I can see how this may cause the free 6x character limit to really be an issue if peeps are in multiple games. $2.99/month (less the 10¢/day) is worth it to get the unlimited characters.
I guess there will be no integration with Roll20 anymore. They released their Charactermancer and added the PHB to their Content. The PHB is not for free, but it seems that they want to offer the same functionality as DDB.
As long as DDB has no virtual table of their own, I have to use Roll20 for my games. It works for now, but it is ugly and clumsy and I wish there would be a professional solution.
But now there might be hope that DDB comes up their own VTT.
If you have a Pro account with access to the Roll20 API, you can incorporate this API to import your characters from D&D Beyond:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/tips-tactics/19647-d-d-beyond-to-roll20-character-import
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And DNDB isn't designed for online play. It's designed to make the tabletop in person more streamlined. Don't expect a VTT as it doesn't fit with their business model. An API import is the best you'll get and bow. With shareable links etc it will be easier to import now.
You do realise the D&D has more players than ever and last year was their biggest ever? 5e is alive and very very healthy. Not that they can be complacent, but they are certainly having no trouble building faithful players.
Whoa, this is awesome! I don't currently have a pro account--cruddy video plus the fact that we don't actually use grids/tokens forced my group to abandon r20--but this would be super, super helpful if I do go back.
DM: The Cult of the Crystal Spider (Currently playing Storm King's Thunder)
Player: The Knuckles of Arth - Lemire (Tiefling Rogue 5/Fighter 1)
The video in r20 is terrible, so we turn it off and use Google Hangouts. This is an ideal solution for my group.
While i agree that a VTT isnt currently a part of DnDB's business model, anyone who make a online tool/site that IS NOT intended for online use, that is like building a car and intentionally leaving the wheels out of the schematics. Why choose to do only one of the two when you could have done both..
DDB and VTTs are entirely different products. It would not be such a simple matter to add VTT functionality to DDB and I would bet that most of the development that's been done on DDB wouldn't apply to VTT features much at all. They would either need to acquire an existing VTT or start from scratch. I don't see either happening, realistically, though I suppose anything could change. Personally, I would prefer they not try to do VTT in DDB.
The car metaphor would instead be more like, "Why choose to only build a car when you could have also built a boat?" It would be a massive investment of time and money, probably requiring years of development to catch up to where existing VTTs have been for a long time. All that would directly take away from what they could be doing with DDB. I'd much prefer that effort be put into making DDB the best it can be, for the intended purpose.
Some way to spit out a file that can be imported to Fantasy Grounds would be nice, but it also doesn't take long to enter a character manually into FG once it's been built already in DDB.
The language that BadEye is using now regarding future VTT implementation has changed from what it used to be in the Q&A livestreams.
He used to say that there are no plans in the works when this would come up. Now he is saying that he can't speak on any future features, but there are some exciting things in the pipeline that have yet to be announced (full disclosure: I'm paraphrasing from memory, but check the past couple of livestreams and see if you notice the change as well). That, to me, implies that something has changed regarding this position. While this may not mean a fully-fleshed out VTT, it may point to some kind of virtual map tool/handout functionality.
If DDB had a VTT, or some way to show a map with minis on screen, I would switch from Roll20!
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
I would even accept a discount/partial credit situation. I, like many, own both hard copies and digital copies on Fantasy Grounds. I cannot justify paying for a 3rd full price copy of things I already own twice.
Please let's not start this again. There is an entire thread dedicated to why there is no discount for owning any other versions of the books. Please go there to read through if you are so inclined, but not here. :-@
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/d-d-beyond-feedback/5743-d-d-beyond-pricing-purchase-faq-discussion
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Can someone provide a source for this? I'm very interested in finding out more.
I think R20's recent charactermancer implementation is somehow related to DnDBeyond - either as a first step to integration (I hope so) or as an attempt to compete with DnDBeyond (in which case it's no where close). Pretty much as soon as any of the three current players offer integration (whether it's R20, FG, or Astral (formerly PowerVTT)) they are getting my business. I currently do all my games on R20, but if someone else gets there first, I'll give R20 up to three months to catch up - then I'm switching.
If DDB had nothing more than a grid where you can upload tokens (linked to character sheets and monster stats) and background images, I'd probably switch to that first. Curse could probably get there pretty quickly if they bought Astral VTT and integrated it.
Subclasses: Path of the Marauder, Way of the Golden Fist, Way of the Yamabushi. Feats: Melee Training, Olympian Physique. Spells: Arcane Recall, Banker's Purse, Coin Shot, Moonfire Blade.
I'm with you, Jedd. I run my games on Roll20, but would switch to DDB completely in a sec and subscribe annually if they added a VTT.
When DDB launched the final versions of the core books with their sale prices, I contacted Roll20 to ask them if they had plans to launch their own full core books soon or not. I pointed out that Fantasy Grounds had already had the core books for at least a year, and now DDB had them, and that if Roll20 were going to launch their's soon I would wait for them. Their response was basically "Nope, we are working to make something awesome. Sorry, no more info."
Since there weren't willing to commit to anything concrete, I went with DDB to get the sale price. Roll 20 lost their chance, and I have no intention of buying the books on Roll20 now when I can just copy/paste.
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
It's total speculation from being too invested in what may or may not be subtle hints lol.
You can watch all of the past livestreams on youtube or twitch and see if I'm just crazy.
I have been playing DnD on Roll20 for the past 5 and a half years. I was really excited when they started offering official 5e material there and immediately purchased a few modules and eventually the PHB. Since then I became disappointed that support to access this material on my phone or tablet is pretty limited. Not only that but the cost is higher than the books I have purchased on Ddb. I was a paid subscriber to roll20 up until recently. It just doesn't seem like the service is improving and the interface can still be frustrating for a DM. I would really love to see a VTT crop up here on DDB, especially if it could rival or even compete with what is being offered at FG or Roll20. I would be a lifetime subscriber if they went that route.