Now that we are getting a new psion class, hopefully WotC will revisit this full class concept next.
Meh; they’re unlikely to anything with it that’s markedly different from Bladesinger. The complaint about Gish options is that melee does not readily scale the way spellcasting does, and they can’t change that without making the Gish a better melee than the dedicated melee classes, which I really doubt they’re going to do.
The problem with bladesinger is that it's a martial add-on to a full caster class. Similarly, the Eldritch Knight is a caster add-on to a full martial class. In both cases, the add-on can't be that powerful, because it's only a subclass.
A proper arcane fighter-mage class would be a half-caster in the model of Paladin or Ranger, and it's tough to do that without stepping on those classes' toes. (Not impossible, but it'd probably require a bunch of class-specific spells.)
The likely real reason there isn't one is that there isn't one in the original editions of D&D/AD&D*, and none of the later ones caught on like Warlock did.
Yep, page 43, in the listing of the lair of a Githyanki, it includes "2 'gish': fighter/magic-users of 4th/4th level"
Now I'm curious why they called it a Githyanki Gish so reading older and older articles.
Charles Stross, the original creator of the gith{yanki,zerai} is on social media (Mastodon and Bluesky), so you could ask him. I bet the answer will be, assuming he remembers, is "I made up a name".
(Although you probably won't get an answer if you ask at the moment because IIRC he's having eye surgery around now.)
I don’t know that a half arcane caster “Gish” class would actually step on the Paladin or ranger toes that much. Proficiency with martial weapons, medium armor, access to arcane spells rather than Druidic or clerical skills like athletics, acrobatics, history, intimidation with nature, stealth and survival off the list. Weapon mastery at L2 the ability to cast a cantrip nstead of a weapon attack at L5 and abilities that mimic warcaster and sharpshooter somewhere along the line and a D8 for HP would be a solid start at one.
I mean, there’s not much to choose between with that and an EK. Spellcasting performance is still pretty low and easily exhausted, and you’re giving up melee performance and staying power. Seems more likely to feel like a poorly designed multiclass than a solid hybrid.
I mean, there’s not much to choose between with that and an EK. Spellcasting performance is still pretty low and easily exhausted, and you’re giving up melee performance and staying power. Seems more likely to feel like a poorly designed multiclass than a solid hybrid.
There's some argument for stealing from 3e and having a subclass with special functions when multiclassed. e.g.
Spellcasting
You gain the Spellcasting ability of a wizard of 1/3 (round up) of your Fighter level. If you are multiclassed with a wizard, you instead add 1/3 of your Fighter level to your Wizard level to determine how the Spellcasting ability of your Wizard class functions. No other traits, of either class, are affected.
Thus, you could be a half-caster instead of a 1/3 caster by having a wizard level of 1/3 of your fighter level.
The term "Gish" goes all the way back to the Fiend Folio Githyanki of the early 1980s.
I'd personally love to have a full class built around a playstyle that weaves arcane magic into a heavy melee focus since it's such a popular concept. For me the paladin and ranger are not technically "gish" classes since they don't use arcane magic, but I know other people feel differently about that. 4E had the Swordmage to fill that arcane + melee desire, though I never owned any of the 4E products. 5E does have quite a few subclass options as Wi1dBi11 pointed out.
I have the original fiend folio and the word Gish doesn't appear anywhere in it or to the Githyanki section.
EDIT: Yep, page 43, in the listing of the lair of a Githyanki, it includes "2 'gish': fighter/magic-users of 4th/4th level". Some Youtuber probably only saw the Gish was a multiclass and went with it, not knowing it didn't define multilclass Githyanki. As I said, the Captain was higher ranked🤷🏿♂️
Now I'm curious why they called it a Githyanki Gish so reading older and older articles.
Adventure from 1982 referring to 'Gish' named characters in the encounter table.
I stand corrected. I was only looking in the lore sections. Still I don't remember any sessions where anyone brought up that word. And judging where it is in the hierarchy (4th lvl fighter/4th lvl Magic User), they are only one above the lowest ranking Gythiankis, and just below the Sergeants. The higher ranking Captains are 7th lvl fighter/6th lvl Magic User
Due to the lack of massive forums etc, my D&D groups of old never ran into the term, and would instead call it "Gandalffing" since Gandalf used the Sword Glamdring along with his staff.
I love this, and I think it also captures the frustration of the party when a high level bladesinger runs into the fray to melee instead of dropping a Cone of Cold or something. Godlike being on a massive battlefield? Let's have him slowly kill the bad guys one at a time with his sword...
(Don't @ me, I love LotR as much as anyone, just having a laugh)
Due to the lack of massive forums etc, my D&D groups of old never ran into the term, and would instead call it "Gandalffing" since Gandalf used the Sword Glamdring along with his staff.
I love this, and I think it also captures the frustration of the party when a high level bladesinger runs into the fray to melee instead of dropping a Cone of Cold or something. Godlike being on a massive battlefield? Let's have him slowly kill the bad guys one at a time with his sword...
(Don't @ me, I love LotR as much as anyone, just having a laugh)
i mean, it was first used something like " STOP GANDALFING AND GO GET THE URN!" right before i died... I had 3 hitpoints and a shortsword. but since it was AD&D, the only spell i had was sleep, and i used it. No cantrips, no nothing. Wizard was awful back then.
Edit: and by I i mean my character. I am not a ghost using the internet, you can't prove anything.
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player. The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call To rise up in triumph should we all unite The spark for change is yours to ignite." Kalandra - The State of the World
I don’t know that a half arcane caster “Gish” class would actually step on the Paladin or ranger toes that much. Proficiency with martial weapons, medium armor, access to arcane spells rather than Druidic or clerical skills like athletics, acrobatics, history, intimidation with nature, stealth and survival off the list. Weapon mastery at L2 the ability to cast a cantrip nstead of a weapon attack at L5 and abilities that mimic warcaster and sharpshooter somewhere along the line and a D8 for HP would be a solid start at one.
Battle Smith Artificer is also a little like this. It can be played a lot less like magic items and a lot more like a low level wizard with armor and weapon proficiency if you so choose.
The problem with bladesinger is that it's a martial add-on to a full caster class. Similarly, the Eldritch Knight is a caster add-on to a full martial class. In both cases, the add-on can't be that powerful, because it's only a subclass.
A proper arcane fighter-mage class would be a half-caster in the model of Paladin or Ranger, and it's tough to do that without stepping on those classes' toes. (Not impossible, but it'd probably require a bunch of class-specific spells.)
The likely real reason there isn't one is that there isn't one in the original editions of D&D/AD&D*, and none of the later ones caught on like Warlock did.
* Except for Elf
Charles Stross, the original creator of the gith{yanki,zerai} is on social media (Mastodon and Bluesky), so you could ask him. I bet the answer will be, assuming he remembers, is "I made up a name".
(Although you probably won't get an answer if you ask at the moment because IIRC he's having eye surgery around now.)
I don’t know that a half arcane caster “Gish” class would actually step on the Paladin or ranger toes that much. Proficiency with martial weapons, medium armor, access to arcane spells rather than Druidic or clerical skills like athletics, acrobatics, history, intimidation with nature, stealth and survival off the list. Weapon mastery at L2 the ability to cast a cantrip nstead of a weapon attack at L5 and abilities that mimic warcaster and sharpshooter somewhere along the line and a D8 for HP would be a solid start at one.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I mean, there’s not much to choose between with that and an EK. Spellcasting performance is still pretty low and easily exhausted, and you’re giving up melee performance and staying power. Seems more likely to feel like a poorly designed multiclass than a solid hybrid.
There's some argument for stealing from 3e and having a subclass with special functions when multiclassed. e.g.
Thus, you could be a half-caster instead of a 1/3 caster by having a wizard level of 1/3 of your fighter level.
I stand corrected. I was only looking in the lore sections. Still I don't remember any sessions where anyone brought up that word. And judging where it is in the hierarchy (4th lvl fighter/4th lvl Magic User), they are only one above the lowest ranking Gythiankis, and just below the Sergeants. The higher ranking Captains are 7th lvl fighter/6th lvl Magic User
I love this, and I think it also captures the frustration of the party when a high level bladesinger runs into the fray to melee instead of dropping a Cone of Cold or something. Godlike being on a massive battlefield? Let's have him slowly kill the bad guys one at a time with his sword...
(Don't @ me, I love LotR as much as anyone, just having a laugh)
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
i mean, it was first used something like " STOP GANDALFING AND GO GET THE URN!" right before i died... I had 3 hitpoints and a shortsword. but since it was AD&D, the only spell i had was sleep, and i used it. No cantrips, no nothing.
Wizard was awful back then.
Edit: and by I i mean my character. I am not a ghost using the internet, you can't prove anything.
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player.
The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call
To rise up in triumph should we all unite
The spark for change is yours to ignite."
Kalandra - The State of the World
Battle Smith Artificer is also a little like this. It can be played a lot less like magic items and a lot more like a low level wizard with armor and weapon proficiency if you so choose.