I am looking to build a tank that excels at staying alive and keeping opponents away from squishies. At the same time, he needs to be able to dish out damage when necessary. I very much want to be able to also heal if necessary. A long time will be spent at low levels, this is by no means a "how tough can I be at level 20 build".
My current idea is to go paladin6, divine soul sorcerer14 as a variant human so as to start with polearm mastery, and pick up sentinel at level 4. I'd take duelist as a fighting style to boost the relatively paltry damage of the one hand spear. The spear is necessary for the extra range to compliment sentinel and to allow for a shield, which will make a huge difference for AC (added to full plate), absolutely necessary in my opinion for a primary tank.
The first six levels would be with Paladin for the AC, the saving throws, the aura, and the smiting. By going for Sorcerer in later levels, he'll be able to do a lot more smiting, which should allow the character to remain relevant when things get tough.
Starting stats would likely be: Strength 16, Dexterity 10, Constitution 14, Intelligence 8, Wisdom 12, Charisma 14. Subsequent ASI wold go to boost Strength and Charisma. Skill picks would be Athletics, Insight, Intimidation, Perception, & Persuasion.
I have no idea which oath would most compliment this build. Anyone have any recommendations or advice (in any respect) to this build? I am not 100% married to anything in this concept. The main purpose is to be the most effective tank both to defend and to not be useless when maximum damage is needed.
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Bookworm, martial artist, repentant psychic, dried out drug addict, paramedic, pseudo-apostate libertarian, debater, knife maker, SCA basher, professional gamer, speculator, pornographer, and nascent social commentator. ...and I want an uncomplicated life.
Your "extra range" comment makes it sound like you think spears have reach - they don't. PAM is still good for this build though.
One thing you may not have factored in is hit dice. Sorcerers have the lowest hit dice you can get, and your HP will noticeably drop off in later levels.
The above combined with the fact that you won't really be able to significantly raise your CHA (you won't get your first ASI until level 10 and you'll only get 3 total if you don't take any more feats) makes me think that 14 levels of Sorc is a pretty expensive trade-off just for more smites. There is likely a better way to increase your damage output without giving up your defensive capability.
End of the day, with this build you'll have to make a choice between "most effective tank" and "maximum damage." I'm not super familiar with Paladin builds but I would guess there are a few other combinations that do both a little better.
Seriously? A spear doesn't have reach? A 1d6 weapon would be imbalancing if it had reach? What asinine idiot of a game designer came up with the idea that the illustrated below does not have reach?
I have fought in the SCA many, many times with BOTH halberd AND spear, and the spear has a HECK of a lot MORE reach!
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Bookworm, martial artist, repentant psychic, dried out drug addict, paramedic, pseudo-apostate libertarian, debater, knife maker, SCA basher, professional gamer, speculator, pornographer, and nascent social commentator. ...and I want an uncomplicated life.
If you want reach then you will have to without the shield. Unfortunate but true, only reach one handed weapon is the whip if i recall correctly. So choices need to be made in that regard.
Oath of ancients taken to level 7 is nice for the damage resistance from spells. But I presume you are fixated on getting wings. Which alignment did you have in mind for the divine soul choice?
If you are willing to go sans wings at 20th I think 8 paladin ancients, and 12 sorcerer divine soul would give a solid number of ASIs to work with.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Range doesn't really matter if your intent isn't to be a cheesy "I stop every enemy from engaging me with Sentinel" build. I would think just stay Padadin for HP and see if you could work in Tough feat.
Cavalier. Nothing says tank like the Cavalier. Ignore the part where it suggests mounted combat if you want. It's irrelevant to how strong it is at tanking. Also as good at dealing damage as any shield fighter. PAM, Sentinel, are great combos but not required. Take PAM as your variant human feat. Sentinel is good, but not required until late game. Honestly, take fighter 20! 4 attacks! Spread Unwavering Marks all over the place. It's good at 3 and keeps getting better.
As for healing, take herbalism for healing pots and/or medicine for med kits. You'll do well enough.
Cavalier. Nothing says tank like the Cavalier. Ignore the part where it suggests mounted combat if you want. It's irrelevant to how strong it is at tanking. Also as good at dealing damage as any shield fighter. PAM, Sentinel, are great combos but not required. Take PAM as your variant human feat. Sentinel is good, but not required until late game. Honestly, take fighter 20! 4 attacks! Spread Unwavering Marks all over the place. It's good at 3 and keeps getting better.
As for healing, take herbalism for healing pots and/or medicine for med kits. You'll do well enough.
The character I am currently playing is a level 5 Mountain Dwarf Fighter wielding axe and shield with Duelist as a fighting style. For martial archetype he went Brute for both the extra damage die and the extra saving throw die at level 7. He's got a +1 adamantine dwarven axe, a +1 suit of adamantine armor, a +1 shield, a +1 cloak of protection and a +1 ring of protection all adding to an AC of 24. We were given a free feat choice at start, and I picked Heavy Armor Mastery which not only gave him -3 DR versus most non magical attacks, it gave him a +1 Str which allowed him to start with an 18 strength (point buy). At level 4 I bumped that to 20. Next level I am picking up Sentinel. After that, resilience on Wisdom (which will bring it to 14) for saving throw proficiency. (I am the 'only' character that can stand in front other than our life cleric. If I get turned, it's likely a party wipe.) He does in fact have both Herbalism and Medicine as skill picks.
Bookworm, martial artist, repentant psychic, dried out drug addict, paramedic, pseudo-apostate libertarian, debater, knife maker, SCA basher, professional gamer, speculator, pornographer, and nascent social commentator. ...and I want an uncomplicated life.
Seriously? A spear doesn't have reach? A 1d6 weapon would be imbalancing if it had reach? What asinine idiot of a game designer came up with the idea that the illustrated below does not have reach?
I have fought in the SCA many, many times with BOTH halberd AND spear, and the spear has a HECK of a lot MORE reach!
I'm not arguing that, logically speaking, a spear shouldn't have reach. But, it's not just that it's only a 1d6. There's also the fact that it is versatile, thrown, and is a simple weapon as opposed to a martial weapon. Lower barrier of entry and more options come in to balance as well as damage.
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I am looking to build a tank that excels at staying alive and keeping opponents away from squishies. At the same time, he needs to be able to dish out damage when necessary. I very much want to be able to also heal if necessary. A long time will be spent at low levels, this is by no means a "how tough can I be at level 20 build".
My current idea is to go paladin6, divine soul sorcerer14 as a variant human so as to start with polearm mastery, and pick up sentinel at level 4. I'd take duelist as a fighting style to boost the relatively paltry damage of the one hand spear. The spear is necessary for the extra range to compliment sentinel and to allow for a shield, which will make a huge difference for AC (added to full plate), absolutely necessary in my opinion for a primary tank.
The first six levels would be with Paladin for the AC, the saving throws, the aura, and the smiting. By going for Sorcerer in later levels, he'll be able to do a lot more smiting, which should allow the character to remain relevant when things get tough.
Starting stats would likely be: Strength 16, Dexterity 10, Constitution 14, Intelligence 8, Wisdom 12, Charisma 14. Subsequent ASI wold go to boost Strength and Charisma. Skill picks would be Athletics, Insight, Intimidation, Perception, & Persuasion.
I have no idea which oath would most compliment this build. Anyone have any recommendations or advice (in any respect) to this build? I am not 100% married to anything in this concept. The main purpose is to be the most effective tank both to defend and to not be useless when maximum damage is needed.
Bookworm, martial artist, repentant psychic, dried out drug addict, paramedic, pseudo-apostate libertarian, debater, knife maker, SCA basher, professional gamer, speculator, pornographer, and nascent social commentator. ...and I want an uncomplicated life.
A couple things:
End of the day, with this build you'll have to make a choice between "most effective tank" and "maximum damage." I'm not super familiar with Paladin builds but I would guess there are a few other combinations that do both a little better.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Seriously? A spear doesn't have reach? A 1d6 weapon would be imbalancing if it had reach? What asinine idiot of a game designer came up with the idea that the illustrated below does not have reach?
I have fought in the SCA many, many times with BOTH halberd AND spear, and the spear has a HECK of a lot MORE reach!
Bookworm, martial artist, repentant psychic, dried out drug addict, paramedic, pseudo-apostate libertarian, debater, knife maker, SCA basher, professional gamer, speculator, pornographer, and nascent social commentator. ...and I want an uncomplicated life.
Welcome to Dungeons and Dragons
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If you want reach then you will have to without the shield. Unfortunate but true, only reach one handed weapon is the whip if i recall correctly. So choices need to be made in that regard.
Oath of ancients taken to level 7 is nice for the damage resistance from spells. But I presume you are fixated on getting wings. Which alignment did you have in mind for the divine soul choice?
If you are willing to go sans wings at 20th I think 8 paladin ancients, and 12 sorcerer divine soul would give a solid number of ASIs to work with.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Range doesn't really matter if your intent isn't to be a cheesy "I stop every enemy from engaging me with Sentinel" build. I would think just stay Padadin for HP and see if you could work in Tough feat.
Cavalier. Nothing says tank like the Cavalier. Ignore the part where it suggests mounted combat if you want. It's irrelevant to how strong it is at tanking. Also as good at dealing damage as any shield fighter. PAM, Sentinel, are great combos but not required. Take PAM as your variant human feat. Sentinel is good, but not required until late game. Honestly, take fighter 20! 4 attacks! Spread Unwavering Marks all over the place. It's good at 3 and keeps getting better.
As for healing, take herbalism for healing pots and/or medicine for med kits. You'll do well enough.
The character I am currently playing is a level 5 Mountain Dwarf Fighter wielding axe and shield with Duelist as a fighting style. For martial archetype he went Brute for both the extra damage die and the extra saving throw die at level 7. He's got a +1 adamantine dwarven axe, a +1 suit of adamantine armor, a +1 shield, a +1 cloak of protection and a +1 ring of protection all adding to an AC of 24. We were given a free feat choice at start, and I picked Heavy Armor Mastery which not only gave him -3 DR versus most non magical attacks, it gave him a +1 Str which allowed him to start with an 18 strength (point buy). At level 4 I bumped that to 20. Next level I am picking up Sentinel. After that, resilience on Wisdom (which will bring it to 14) for saving throw proficiency. (I am the 'only' character that can stand in front other than our life cleric. If I get turned, it's likely a party wipe.) He does in fact have both Herbalism and Medicine as skill picks.
Bookworm, martial artist, repentant psychic, dried out drug addict, paramedic, pseudo-apostate libertarian, debater, knife maker, SCA basher, professional gamer, speculator, pornographer, and nascent social commentator. ...and I want an uncomplicated life.
I'm not arguing that, logically speaking, a spear shouldn't have reach. But, it's not just that it's only a 1d6. There's also the fact that it is versatile, thrown, and is a simple weapon as opposed to a martial weapon. Lower barrier of entry and more options come in to balance as well as damage.