I have theory crafted a high initiative character that with a DEX manual, and WIS tome, has a +27 bonus. looking at 4 Gloomstalker, 2 Bard, 2 War Wizard and 12 Fighter. I'm confident I can make this character in AL by trading for the magic items or just DM the modules outright. But what purpose short of being 1st in a combat does this have for anyone that isn't a 17th lvl Thief Rogue. I think it might be fun to call out that 46 initiative when you roll a 19 but is there anything that can benefit from a +40 initiative?
I genuinely want to see how you got that. I mean, yeah it's not that important unless you're doing a new initiative every round. But still, it's fun to always go fast.
Going first is nice, but if you don't have any benefit tied to it it isn't the greatest. However, if you made a whole party of high-initiative characters, you could nova anything before it touched you.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
I have theory crafted a high initiative character that with a DEX manual, and WIS tome, has a +27 bonus. looking at 4 Gloomstalker, 2 Bard, 2 War Wizard and 12 Fighter. I'm confident I can make this character in AL by trading for the magic items or just DM the modules outright. But what purpose short of being 1st in a combat does this have for anyone that isn't a 17th lvl Thief Rogue. I think it might be fun to call out that 46 initiative when you roll a 19 but is there anything that can benefit from a +40 initiative?
So.
Gloomstalker for Dread Ambusher, to add your Wisdom modifier to Initiative.
War Wizard for Tactical Wit, to add your Intelligence modifier to Initiative.
Plus your usual Dexterity modifier.
Oh, and, maybe going with Fighter(Gunslinger) to add your Proficiency Bonus to initiative, via Quickdraw ...?
Not sure what Bard is in there for, though.
...
Those won't add up to +27. At most, +5 each from DEX, INT, and WIS, then +5 from Proficiency, for a final of +20 .... still bloody impressive, but it's not +27.
TDLR so far; Dexterity Gloomstalker for + WIS War Wizard for + INT Swashbuckler for + CHA Fighter (Gunslighter) for + Proficiency, or Bard for + Half Proficiency Alert for +5.
Assuming you can somehow get 20 in WIS, INT, CHA, and DEX, which I'm pretty sure is impossible point buy, that'll be... DEX (5) + WIS (5) + INT (5) + CHA (5) + Alert (5) + Pro. (6)= 31
Of course, the person who first made this post stated that had a tome of increasing DEX and WIS. Which increased those stats above 20 to 22. This would of increased the bonus to 33.
However I want to push this even further. If you also have tomes of why do you have 20 of these, that'll make all your stats 30. Which, well let's look back at the formula shall we? DEX (10) + WIS (10) + INT (10) + Cha (10) + Alert (5) + Pro. (6) = 51
Because we already added in tomes, why not a Ioun Stone of Mastery for a proficiency bonus of 7? That'll make it +52 to initiative. By this point the 7 levels in barbarian for advantage wouldn't even help. If you really want to put this to the extreme, pretty sure EGtW has a spell that increases initiative by 1d8 as well.
As for the question of when a initiative bonus too high, the answer is that the bonus really doesn't matter past the first round. Unless your a assassin you shouldn't care too much about initiative. If you are, then a +10 from alert and DEX should be more than enough. Maybe Gloomstalker for +WIS if you still aren't confident.
Edit: The person stated they had 1 tome of DEX and 1 tome of WIS. Not 5 of each. Ah whatever I still want to see the math of having that many tomes. Fixed it in the post though.
TDLR so far; Dexterity Gloomstalker for + WIS War Wizard for + INT Swashbuckler for + CHA Fighter (Gunslighter) for + Proficiency, or Bard for + Half Proficiency Alert for +5.
Assuming you can somehow get 20 in WIS, INT, CHA, and DEX, which I'm pretty sure is impossible point buy, that'll be... DEX (5) + WIS (5) + INT (5) + CHA (5) + Alert (5) + Pro. (6)= 31
Of course, the person who first made this post stated that had a tome of increasing DEX and WIS. Which increased those stats above 20 to 22. This would of increased the bonus to 33.
However I want to push this even further. If you also have tomes of why do you have 20 of these, that'll make all your stats 30. Which, well let's look back at the formula shall we? DEX (10) + WIS (10) + INT (10) + Cha (10) + Alert (5) + Pro. (6) = 51
Because we already added in tomes, why not a Ioun Stone of Mastery for a proficiency bonus of 7? That'll make it +52 to initiative. By this point the 7 levels in barbarian for advantage wouldn't even help. If you really want to put this to the extreme, pretty sure EGtW has a spell that increases initiative by 1d8 as well.
As for the question of when a initiative bonus too high, the answer is that the bonus really doesn't matter past the first round. Unless your a assassin you shouldn't care too much about initiative. If you are, then a +10 from alert and DEX should be more than enough. Maybe Gloomstalker for +WIS if you still aren't confident.
Edit: The person stated they had 1 tome of DEX and 1 tome of WIS. Not 5 of each. Ah whatever I still want to see the math of having that many tomes. Fixed it in the post though.
At that point, you don't bother to roll.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
I think we got lost in the maximizing of initiative. I think it would only be too high when:
When you have to give up something more valuable to you i.e. being able to cast 9th levels spells in a high-level game. The multi-classing causes you to lose out on a lot of things from every class.
Your INIT bonus is higher than the majority of foes can get when they roll a high number. If you are going first 75% of the time, how much is it worth to go 90% of the time?
Is there a tactical advantage you can achieve? In 3rd edition rogues going first did a lot more damage since they got sneak attack. Is there anything you will gain from going first.
If the game play allows you to look at those cases and say it is worth it, go ahead. And as you said, it would be pretty neat to say 46 for initiative at an AL table and wait for the cries of WHAT!!!???
this is a link to the character in question. I did a homebrew item to factor in the fighter's remarkable athlete as it should not be countered by Bard's jack of all trades as they are two different mechanics. it rounds up for fighter and down for bard but neither actually allows you to use your proficiency bonus. I also am following the PHB +1 rule that Adventurers League has so fighter is out and magic Items like tomes are limited to one applied. if Remarkable Athlete and jack of all trades is for some reason ruled as the same thing like overlapping extra attacks then he is still a +24 before the roll.
ok the numbers are max DEX and WIS with a tome for each, Alert feat, Jack of all trades, remarkable athlete, and tactical wit. the Attunement slots are used for headband of Intellect, Amulet of health, and a belt of giant strength for this case Storm because I know there is a way to get it in an AL module. so here is the totaling
DEX MOD +6
WIS MOD +6
Alert Feat +5
Remarkable athlete +3
Jack of all trades +3
Tactical Wit +4
Total +27
there are ways you can go past this but my goal was an AL build. with that said there are ways to get other Items in AL that will boost Initiative like The 6th Sword which is a +2 rapier that adds a +2 to initiative but that is a modified using the minor properties section of the DMG. and not a standard magic item.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I have theory crafted a high initiative character that with a DEX manual, and WIS tome, has a +27 bonus. looking at 4 Gloomstalker, 2 Bard, 2 War Wizard and 12 Fighter. I'm confident I can make this character in AL by trading for the magic items or just DM the modules outright. But what purpose short of being 1st in a combat does this have for anyone that isn't a 17th lvl Thief Rogue. I think it might be fun to call out that 46 initiative when you roll a 19 but is there anything that can benefit from a +40 initiative?
I genuinely want to see how you got that. I mean, yeah it's not that important unless you're doing a new initiative every round. But still, it's fun to always go fast.
Going first is nice, but if you don't have any benefit tied to it it isn't the greatest. However, if you made a whole party of high-initiative characters, you could nova anything before it touched you.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
So.
Gloomstalker for Dread Ambusher, to add your Wisdom modifier to Initiative.
War Wizard for Tactical Wit, to add your Intelligence modifier to Initiative.
Plus your usual Dexterity modifier.
Oh, and, maybe going with Fighter(Gunslinger) to add your Proficiency Bonus to initiative, via Quickdraw ...?
Not sure what Bard is in there for, though.
...
Those won't add up to +27. At most, +5 each from DEX, INT, and WIS, then +5 from Proficiency, for a final of +20 .... still bloody impressive, but it's not +27.
Bard was probably for jack of all trades to add half prof. But adding gunslinger would invalidate that i think.
Alert feat?
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
.... well hell.
TIL that Initiative IS in fact an Ability Check. Go figure.
So, okay, that brings us to +22 or +23 (depending on how you round that "half proficiency"). Still not quite +27, though.
Maybe, but he didn't list it. :)
Could have also thrown in Swashbuckler Rogue for the Cha bonus to initiative too.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Add 7 levels of barbarian for advantage on the roll?
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
TDLR so far;
Dexterity
Gloomstalker for + WIS
War Wizard for + INT
Swashbuckler for + CHA
Fighter (Gunslighter) for + Proficiency, or Bard for + Half Proficiency
Alert for +5.
Assuming you can somehow get 20 in WIS, INT, CHA, and DEX, which I'm pretty sure is impossible point buy, that'll be...
DEX (5) + WIS (5) + INT (5) + CHA (5) + Alert (5) + Pro. (6)= 31
Of course, the person who first made this post stated that had a tome of increasing DEX and WIS. Which increased those stats above 20 to 22. This would of increased the bonus to 33.
However I want to push this even further.
If you also have tomes of why do you have 20 of these, that'll make all your stats 30. Which, well let's look back at the formula shall we?
DEX (10) + WIS (10) + INT (10) + Cha (10) + Alert (5) + Pro. (6) = 51
Because we already added in tomes, why not a Ioun Stone of Mastery for a proficiency bonus of 7? That'll make it +52 to initiative. By this point the 7 levels in barbarian for advantage wouldn't even help. If you really want to put this to the extreme, pretty sure EGtW has a spell that increases initiative by 1d8 as well.
As for the question of when a initiative bonus too high, the answer is that the bonus really doesn't matter past the first round. Unless your a assassin you shouldn't care too much about initiative. If you are, then a +10 from alert and DEX should be more than enough. Maybe Gloomstalker for +WIS if you still aren't confident.
Edit: The person stated they had 1 tome of DEX and 1 tome of WIS. Not 5 of each. Ah whatever I still want to see the math of having that many tomes. Fixed it in the post though.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
At that point, you don't bother to roll.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
DM: Roll for initiative!
Player: That's a NAT 1.
DM: That's a shame, I assume you'll be last? Well, 25 to 20...
Player: 52.
DM: What in name of Ioun is this.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
Ah, playing Mutants & Masterminds.
Ah, we're playing Mutants & Masterminds
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I guess we now know what the answer to the question in the title is: never.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
Just for fun, add a stone of good luck (luckstone).
I think we got lost in the maximizing of initiative. I think it would only be too high when:
If the game play allows you to look at those cases and say it is worth it, go ahead. And as you said, it would be pretty neat to say 46 for initiative at an AL table and wait for the cries of WHAT!!!???
I feel like if i had more than +10 to init, i'm going to be pushing for the option to reroll init every round, just for the fun of it.
Don't forget to add Scorpion Armor!
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
https://ddb.ac/characters/28718982/8edSx0
this is a link to the character in question. I did a homebrew item to factor in the fighter's remarkable athlete as it should not be countered by Bard's jack of all trades as they are two different mechanics. it rounds up for fighter and down for bard but neither actually allows you to use your proficiency bonus. I also am following the PHB +1 rule that Adventurers League has so fighter is out and magic Items like tomes are limited to one applied. if Remarkable Athlete and jack of all trades is for some reason ruled as the same thing like overlapping extra attacks then he is still a +24 before the roll.
ok the numbers are max DEX and WIS with a tome for each, Alert feat, Jack of all trades, remarkable athlete, and tactical wit. the Attunement slots are used for headband of Intellect, Amulet of health, and a belt of giant strength for this case Storm because I know there is a way to get it in an AL module. so here is the totaling
DEX MOD +6
WIS MOD +6
Alert Feat +5
Remarkable athlete +3
Jack of all trades +3
Tactical Wit +4
Total +27
there are ways you can go past this but my goal was an AL build. with that said there are ways to get other Items in AL that will boost Initiative like The 6th Sword which is a +2 rapier that adds a +2 to initiative but that is a modified using the minor properties section of the DMG. and not a standard magic item.