Your post is written under the assumption that people want to use the 5.24 rules, which they don't, or that the 5.24 rules are better than the 5.14 rules, which they aren't.
But anyway, people saying the compendium is useless clearly don't DM lol. The compendium (for monsters, spells, and magic items) is exceeding useful when doing session prep.
Most players & DM's already own the physical version of the 2014 players manuel. The same likely applies to the digital version for most people who use this site meaning they paid twise for them spells. Giving us access to the compendium while "Locking" it so it can't be used with site tools or the charactor creator makes it useless and a waste of money for people who paid for it.
The compendium of some books may be useful for some online DM's but how useful is it when players can't create charactors on this site using the spells or items within that compendium? I think thats the point being made in various comments here.
Most of the people posting here are new to the forums with little or no post history. None of them have 1k+ posts. I can imagine thats because most of them were happy playing DND until they found out that what they paid for is being taken from them.
They are posting here to make complaints because Wotc is removing access to content they paid for. Content that clearly states that buying it unlocks it for use with the dndbeyond tools and charactor sheets. Content we have owned and had licence too for years. Content that is designed to work with the dozens of adventure books that are also sold on this site. This "update" will break people's charactors and entire campaigns which are balanced and designed for books using 2014 rules and spells.
You say " I have no interest in that discussion and I have maintained that position consistently for 9 pages now." but if that was the case you would just let people log their valid complaints in this thread instead of trying to defend Wotc's position. I apoligise in advance if that isn't the case.
How many posts have I made here that were not direct responses to direct replies or implied attacks on me? From my count, only one post at all. If people only wanted to log their valid complaints, they would do so. That is not what has been happening though and I have stood in front of no one here trying to do so. In fact, I expressed a non-zero level of dissatisfaction myself early in this thread specifically to address many incorrect assumptions about my person and my motives.
If you keep replying to people asserting that your opinion is objective and insisting that you're right and everyone else is wrong, don't be surprised when people tend to react to it. Maybe try to understand/accept that what is 'objectively better' for you isn't the same for everyone? It's like someone telling you they're lactose intolerant and prefer non-dairy milk, and you respond by saying that milk products are objectively better- not what they need, and definitely not the opinion they need either.
Either way I'm gonna bonus action disengage, cheers.
The WHOLE POINT of this service is that the stuff in the compendium shows up on the character sheet. The character sheet is the main product!!! I don't want the damn new rules, I paid for the old ones. If this change goes through I demand and expect a refund. When can we expect our refunds to happen?
Seeing as my group will never be touching the 2024 rule set in the entirety of our lifetimes I have no need of the 2014 spells nor does anyone in my party
I remain with a cancelled subscription. If I have to homebrew spells and items back in myself, then the benefit of the service is null. I will go to other platforms that are free and do the homebrew there. The site's largest value isn't the fact it's a glorified e-reader. Its that character creation that pairs with the compendium, and if I can't pick and choose the experience, then I'm not interested.
Also its insane to release all the books months apart. So many rule changes and the balance of combat thrown to the wayside as we wait for new monsters to match.
The only thing i plan to use this site for in the coming future appears to be reading the materials I own here. Even then, most the time I'm just referencing the SRD content on other websites.
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet but "Only two items are impacted" is actually incorrect.
Many items link to spells, so other items will be impacted as a result as many will now have new effects-
This is especially true of the conjuration focused items. The text for Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals for example is:
While this bowl is filled with water, you can use an action to speak the bowl's command word and summon a water elemental, as if you had cast the conjure elemental spell. The bowl can't be used this way again until the next dawn.
This'll no longer make sense, as the monster it links you to is no longer summoned by the spell it will link to.
So in addition to Healing Potion and Spell Scroll I think it's reasonable to say the four elemental summoning items and the elemental gem are also impacted
If you keep replying to people asserting that your opinion is objective and insisting that you're right and everyone else is wrong, don't be surprised when people tend to react to it. Maybe try to understand/accept that what is 'objectively better' for you isn't the same for everyone? It's like someone telling you they're lactose intolerant and prefer non-dairy milk, and you respond by saying that milk products are objectively better- not what they need, and definitely not the opinion they need either.
Either way I'm gonna bonus action disengage, cheers.
I am not surprised by the blowback. I responded to someone else who stated something similar. The response is entirely understandable and I have no intention of trying to argue that people should like the changes. What remains true is that people are getting new content, which is better than when they thought they were getting no content. How much better is a personal opinion, which everyone is entitled to.
Using your analogy, it would be like me saying that milk products are able to provide calcium and vitamin d rather than having neither non-dairy milk, milk products, or any calcium or vitamin d fortified products at all. I am not saying it is the what should be preferred, nor am I saying that dairy milk is better than non-dairy, it simply is, with no judgement assigned to the factual statement.
Also its insane to release all the books months apart. So many rule changes and the balance of combat thrown to the wayside as we wait for new monsters to match.
Not really. For one, 5e was already like that, and while "It was like that before so it has to be like that now" is a weak argument, it does set precedence.
Regardless, the print can't keep up with demand. Period. So either:
Print millions of books and store them for more than a year while you wait to print the rest of the set.
Release all books digitally at once, but only slowly release physical.
Hire more print capacity from 3rd party.
Focus on one book at a time, releasing both digital and physical at the same time.
1 is a logistical and financial nightmare, so that's out. 2 would piss of a ton of people and cannibalize physical sales for the future, so that's out too. 3 sounds reasonable, but comes with QA issues along with reduced product margins, increased leak chance and reduced time to work on the product, so that's out too.
Which leaves us with option 4. I'm sure it's going to annoy some people, but not as many, and that's really about it.
Thanks for the update. I appreciate it’s tricky to describe in words how this is going to work. But it’s still a bit unclear what the experience will be for a given player.
Is it possible to get some idea of how many spells are significantly different in the 2024 rules, in order to gauge whether we want or need to homebrew them to preserve the old versions in campaigns sticking with the 2014 rules?
And are there any workarounds for things like Eldritch Invocations which can’t be homebrewed, but give access to spells? For that matter, will a 2014 Warlock still choose from the 2014 list of invocations? And if so, which version of the spell will be granted to the character? What if a 2014 magic item grants access to a spell - which version will it use?
I hope this shows people that you should never buy digital products, and especially never buy digital products from WotC. They've done this before and they'll do it again. They cannot be trusted. "These new books will be backwards compatible with the old stuff".
No. The "2024 Free Rules" are just there to force people to adapt to the 2024 Books. Otherwise, people simply wouldn't buy the 2024 books digitally, and keep all of their access to 2014 Spells and Magic Items working normally, or at least as they do now.
In all honesty, this seems like a 2024 Beach Boys World Tour. PHB = All the hype and promotion. DMG = Ticket sales, right around Christmas time. MM = The same 50 year old content, that most people won't like as much, wrapped up in a new concert t-shirt.
The only difference is that we are now only allowed to listen to the concert performance version of the songs in any playlist that we try to create in the future, once the concert starts its promotional hype.
Character Sheet? WHAT ABOUT CHARACTER SHEETS? Thats the problem - we lose access to use 2014 stuff IN THE CHARACTER SHEETS!
This.
The reason I, my spouse, and the dozen or so people in our gaming groups all paid for subscriptions was the integration of rules with convenient, easily-navigated character sheets. We have multiple character sheets created with 5e rules for campaigns built with 5e rules, that will suddenly be linking mid-campaign to *different rules*.
In some cases that won't be a big deal. In others- say, for example, spells, which are slightly important to let's be honest MOST classes, subclasses, many feats... that's going to be a substantial problem.
I shouldn't have to spend time and effort to homebrew existing content to continue using it the way I was told I could use it when I paid for it.
So I'm not going to. :) I already cancelled my subscription, this "clarification" has done exactly nothing to convince me that was anything but the most appropriate course of action, and I strongly suggest anyone else unhappy with this development from WotC do the same. A blatant cash grab can only be answered by taking that cash elsewhere.
Is it possible to get some idea of how many spells are significantly different in the 2024 rules, in order to gauge whether we want or need to homebrew them to preserve the old versions in campaigns sticking with the 2014 rules?
It's over 100 spells. If you check out Joefudge on youtube (Part 1 and Part 2) he has a full breakdown of every single spell and how they changed - with timestamps! Some are minor, most are not.
Thanks for the update. I appreciate it’s tricky to describe in words how this is going to work. But it’s still a bit unclear what the experience will be for a given player.
Is it possible to get some idea of how many spells are significantly different in the 2024 rules, in order to gauge whether we want or need to homebrew them to preserve the old versions in campaigns sticking with the 2014 rules?
And are there any workarounds for things like Eldritch Invocations which can’t be homebrewed, but give access to spells? For that matter, will a 2014 Warlock still choose from the 2014 list of invocations? And if so, which version of the spell will be granted to the character? What if a 2014 magic item grants access to a spell - which version will it use?
As far as I know, these are the spells that will be the most changed:
Pulling this from elsewhere, but can anyone confirm if this is this the full list of spells that are being changed (and will need to be homebrewed before the update for the least amount of manual labor)?
Acid Splash. Alter Self. Animal Messenger. Animal Shapes. Animate Objects. Antilife Shell. Arcane Lock. Armor of Agathys. Aura of Purity. Aura of Vitality.
Magic Jar. Magic Missile. Magic Weapon. Major Image. Mass Cure Wounds. Mass Healing Word.Mass Suggestion. Maze. Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound.
Nystul’s Magic Aura
Polymorph. Produce Flame.
Ray of Enfeeblement Ray of Sickness. Resistance.
Simulacrum. Sleep. See Invisibility. Spiritual Weapon. Swift Quiver. Spirit Guardians.
True Polymorph. True Strike.
Vicious Mockery.
Wish. Witch Bolt.
You'll also need to homebrew everything that comes with a spell (legacy subclasses & expanded spell lists, legacy items, etc). And there are still things that you can't homebrew that come with spells (like warlock invocations).
If you keep replying to people asserting that your opinion is objective and insisting that you're right and everyone else is wrong, don't be surprised when people tend to react to it. Maybe try to understand/accept that what is 'objectively better' for you isn't the same for everyone? It's like someone telling you they're lactose intolerant and prefer non-dairy milk, and you respond by saying that milk products are objectively better- not what they need, and definitely not the opinion they need either.
Either way I'm gonna bonus action disengage, cheers.
I am not surprised by the blowback. I responded to someone else who stated something similar. The response is entirely understandable and I have no intention of trying to argue that people should like the changes. What remains true is that people are getting new content, which is better than when they thought they were getting no content. How much better is a personal opinion, which everyone is entitled to.
Using your analogy, it would be like me saying that milk products are able to provide calcium and vitamin d rather than having neither non-dairy milk, milk products, or any calcium or vitamin d fortified products at all. I am not saying it is the what should be preferred, nor am I saying that dairy milk is better than non-dairy, it simply is, with no judgement assigned to the factual statement.
So you are adding nothing and should just stop commenting because you are actively adding nothing
No. The "2024 Free Rules" are simply forcing people to adapt to the 2024 Books. Otherwise, people simply wouldn't buy the 2024 books, and keep all of their access to 2014 Spells and Magic Items working normally, or at least as they do now.
I don't disagree that they are removing the 2014 versions of spells and magic items.
Most players & DM's already own the physical version of the 2014 players manuel. The same likely applies to the digital version for most people who use this site meaning they paid twise for them spells. Giving us access to the compendium while "Locking" it so it can't be used with site tools or the charactor creator makes it useless and a waste of money for people who paid for it.
The compendium of some books may be useful for some online DM's but how useful is it when players can't create charactors on this site using the spells or items within that compendium? I think thats the point being made in various comments here.
If you keep replying to people asserting that your opinion is objective and insisting that you're right and everyone else is wrong, don't be surprised when people tend to react to it. Maybe try to understand/accept that what is 'objectively better' for you isn't the same for everyone? It's like someone telling you they're lactose intolerant and prefer non-dairy milk, and you respond by saying that milk products are objectively better- not what they need, and definitely not the opinion they need either.
Either way I'm gonna bonus action disengage, cheers.
The WHOLE POINT of this service is that the stuff in the compendium shows up on the character sheet. The character sheet is the main product!!! I don't want the damn new rules, I paid for the old ones. If this change goes through I demand and expect a refund. When can we expect our refunds to happen?
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU









Seeing as my group will never be touching the 2024 rule set in the entirety of our lifetimes I have no need of the 2014 spells nor does anyone in my party
I remain with a cancelled subscription. If I have to homebrew spells and items back in myself, then the benefit of the service is null. I will go to other platforms that are free and do the homebrew there. The site's largest value isn't the fact it's a glorified e-reader. Its that character creation that pairs with the compendium, and if I can't pick and choose the experience, then I'm not interested.
Also its insane to release all the books months apart. So many rule changes and the balance of combat thrown to the wayside as we wait for new monsters to match.
The only thing i plan to use this site for in the coming future appears to be reading the materials I own here. Even then, most the time I'm just referencing the SRD content on other websites.
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet but "Only two items are impacted" is actually incorrect.
Many items link to spells, so other items will be impacted as a result as many will now have new effects-
This is especially true of the conjuration focused items. The text for Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals for example is:
This'll no longer make sense, as the monster it links you to is no longer summoned by the spell it will link to.
So in addition to Healing Potion and Spell Scroll I think it's reasonable to say the four elemental summoning items and the elemental gem are also impacted
I am not surprised by the blowback. I responded to someone else who stated something similar. The response is entirely understandable and I have no intention of trying to argue that people should like the changes. What remains true is that people are getting new content, which is better than when they thought they were getting no content. How much better is a personal opinion, which everyone is entitled to.
Using your analogy, it would be like me saying that milk products are able to provide calcium and vitamin d rather than having neither non-dairy milk, milk products, or any calcium or vitamin d fortified products at all. I am not saying it is the what should be preferred, nor am I saying that dairy milk is better than non-dairy, it simply is, with no judgement assigned to the factual statement.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | He/Him/They/Them
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Try DDB free: Free Rules (2024), premade PCs, adventures, one shots, encounters, SC, homebrew, more
Answers: physical books, purchases, and subbing.
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Time to cancel my subscription and move to Roll20. I've put up with a LOT of WOTC's crap but this is doing me in.
Not really. For one, 5e was already like that, and while "It was like that before so it has to be like that now" is a weak argument, it does set precedence.
Regardless, the print can't keep up with demand. Period. So either:
1 is a logistical and financial nightmare, so that's out. 2 would piss of a ton of people and cannibalize physical sales for the future, so that's out too. 3 sounds reasonable, but comes with QA issues along with reduced product margins, increased leak chance and reduced time to work on the product, so that's out too.
Which leaves us with option 4. I'm sure it's going to annoy some people, but not as many, and that's really about it.
So, compatible with previous edtitions you say? Compatible my ass
Thanks for the update. I appreciate it’s tricky to describe in words how this is going to work. But it’s still a bit unclear what the experience will be for a given player.
Is it possible to get some idea of how many spells are significantly different in the 2024 rules, in order to gauge whether we want or need to homebrew them to preserve the old versions in campaigns sticking with the 2014 rules?
And are there any workarounds for things like Eldritch Invocations which can’t be homebrewed, but give access to spells? For that matter, will a 2014 Warlock still choose from the 2014 list of invocations? And if so, which version of the spell will be granted to the character? What if a 2014 magic item grants access to a spell - which version will it use?
We dont give two flying shits about that?
We want the ******* option to keep it as legacy without homebrewing hundreds of items and spells.
Still unsubscripted, especially if you want to piss on us like that and try to sell it off as rain.
I hope this shows people that you should never buy digital products, and especially never buy digital products from WotC. They've done this before and they'll do it again. They cannot be trusted. "These new books will be backwards compatible with the old stuff".
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU









No. The "2024 Free Rules" are just there to force people to adapt to the 2024 Books.
Otherwise, people simply wouldn't buy the 2024 books digitally, and keep all of their access to 2014 Spells and Magic Items working normally, or at least as they do now.
In all honesty, this seems like a 2024 Beach Boys World Tour.
PHB = All the hype and promotion.
DMG = Ticket sales, right around Christmas time.
MM = The same 50 year old content, that most people won't like as much, wrapped up in a new concert t-shirt.
The only difference is that we are now only allowed to listen to the concert performance version of the songs in any playlist that we try to create in the future, once the concert starts its promotional hype.
CAN WE JUST HAVE A TOGGLE FOR THE 2014 SPELLS AND MAGIC ITEMS? Is it that hard to implement? You just have to give it a Legacy tag like the others.
This.
The reason I, my spouse, and the dozen or so people in our gaming groups all paid for subscriptions was the integration of rules with convenient, easily-navigated character sheets. We have multiple character sheets created with 5e rules for campaigns built with 5e rules, that will suddenly be linking mid-campaign to *different rules*.
In some cases that won't be a big deal. In others- say, for example, spells, which are slightly important to let's be honest MOST classes, subclasses, many feats... that's going to be a substantial problem.
I shouldn't have to spend time and effort to homebrew existing content to continue using it the way I was told I could use it when I paid for it.
So I'm not going to. :) I already cancelled my subscription, this "clarification" has done exactly nothing to convince me that was anything but the most appropriate course of action, and I strongly suggest anyone else unhappy with this development from WotC do the same. A blatant cash grab can only be answered by taking that cash elsewhere.
It's over 100 spells. If you check out Joefudge on youtube (Part 1 and Part 2) he has a full breakdown of every single spell and how they changed - with timestamps! Some are minor, most are not.
As far as I know, these are the spells that will be the most changed:
So you are adding nothing and should just stop commenting because you are actively adding nothing
I don't disagree that they are removing the 2014 versions of spells and magic items.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | He/Him/They/Them
EXTENDED SIGNATURE!
Doctor/Published Scholar/Science and Healthcare Advocate/Critter/Trekkie/Gandalf with a Glock
Try DDB free: Free Rules (2024), premade PCs, adventures, one shots, encounters, SC, homebrew, more
Answers: physical books, purchases, and subbing.
Check out my life-changing