Hey, I'll be gone for 2 weeks starting this Sunday (2 September). I will try to post once per day but I can't make any promises because I don't know if I will have access to the internet or not.
Someone, Elsara maybe(?), may want to ask Torelgen about this Samuel Moris fella. Gendan's less interested in the details and just wants to move forward. She's basically ready to bite someone's head off, and playing "bad cop" was just the prelude.
The question of how to handle death in this campaign has been one I've been struggling with from the very beginning. I think I've finally come up with a way to make death more meaningful and higher levels. This is my proposed death mechanic. Please tell me if it sounds fair and what you would suggest I do.
In battle if a PC or NPC dies, a character can cast Revivify on them to bring them back to life. This spell is quite powerful now because it can bring back characters without limits other than spell slots and components and time. This spell must be cast before the battle is over otherwise, it won't work. So lethal traps are super lethal.
Raise Dead, Resurrection and True Resurrection (and wish) are the only spells that can bring PCs back after the battle is over. Raise dead can bring them back if this is the first time they've died. If this is the second time they've died you need Resurrection or True Resurrection. If this is the 3rd time they've died only True Resurrection can bring them back. If they've died more than 3 times, they will stay dead.
Reincarnation can be cast at 9th level to bring a character back for a 4th time but that spell must be cast at 9th level and it requires components worth 30,000 gp. Doing so will randomize the character's race, gender and stats (give them a new set of rolled stats that the players must use). This can't be done if the character gets themselves killed a 5th time.
Life Transference can also be used to bring someone back from the dead. Using a 9th level spell slot and a special ritual that costs 500 gp and 2 hours to prepare, you can sacrifice one willing person to bring another willing person to life. If either of the NPC/PC is unwilling, the spell fails and nobody dies. Nobody is brought back, but nobody dies. People sacrificed this way can't be brought back by other spells (Even Wish won't work) no matter how many times they've died before.
NPCs, once dead will stay dead most of the time. NPCs that died in battle can be brought back with Revivify following the restrictions mentioned above. Once the battle is over, NPCs can't be brought back through any means other than Life Transference and Reincarnate. If you use Reincarnate, they will be brought back as a 1 year old child. Other than this, casting True Resurrection at 9th level immediately after the battle is over will bring the NPC back. This can only be done provided the NPC hasn't died before. To bring back other NPCs, the cost of casting doubles. If NPC-A dies and is brought back and NPC-B dies a few months later, to bring NPC-B back will require 50,000 gp and so on.
I’m not sure I see the need for changing the rules on Revivify, it already is limited to one minute after the creature has died, which is usually within the scope of a battle or immediately after if the fight was short (fewer than 10 rounds). Nerfing Revivify also negates any reasonable chance at saving a character before a PC reaches level 9 (access to level 5 spells).
As for the price points, I don’t see any of these as proportional with the amount of treasure the campaign is providing at this point. If you have planned treasure to have a steep uptick, then those prices might become reasonable.
Is there a reason why you want your campaign to be more fatal? Have you asked your players if they want that? Often times players put a fair amount of time, effort, and energy into building their characters, so I’m wondering what your vision is for the player(s) when a character dies. Are there limits on what class/race/etc. they can rebuild? Can they rebuild an identical character with a different name? Is the player out?
In the case of resurrecting NPCs, are the costs going up for characters casting the spell, or does it affect hiring someone like a cleric to do the work? It makes sense if we keep going back to the same cleric that they might raise the price, or that it may require more for a character that has died many times, but if it’s a totally unrelated circumstance, is the rationale that the gods are punishing us for killing innocents by raising the cost of cailing on the divine power of resurrection?
The raising price is not exactly the gods punishing you but they are getting annoyed that the same group of people are asking a cleric (doesn't matter which one) to bring back people from the dead from time to time. The rules for resurrecting NPCs are different from PCs because I'm treating PCs as being people with an inherent talent in whatever field (class) they are in. You know how some cattle are inherently better cattle because of genes? It's like that but with adventurers. PCs better genes combined with the fact that the other PCs obviously have a stronger bond with them than NPCs makes it easier to resurrect PCs compared to NPCs.
The reason Revivfy was nerfed is to make traps still a threat at higher levels. Also in a battle perspective, you can still resurrect a character with the spell because it is a 3rd level spell but I see your point and can keep it as is written.
Yes, the amount of treasure you will gain in later levels (Though you can't see it, I have divided all missions into their own levels to help me with pacing. You are currently on the last level 1 mission) will be significantly more than what you are getting now.
As for why I want campaign to be more fatal is because I want death to have a consequence. Right now, you guys don't have enough gold and you don't have resurrection spells so death is a pretty consequence. I want death to always be a big risk. A lot of the difficulty, dungeon and quest design in this campaign is based on my experience in playing video games (SRPGs especially). One of the things I disliked while playing Final Fantasy Tactics Advance (a game this campaign takes heavy inspiration from) is that I could just play completely recklessly as long as I had one character still standing. On the other hand, I hated Fire Emblem's perma-death that gave you no way of reviving dead characters should you make a mistake. The place where I did like it though, was with Knight of Lodis where you can bring dead characters back to life but only if you don't complete the battle with them dead. I don't want the campaign to be fatal in that it's too easy for your characters to die but I do want it to have consequence and an element of urgency should it happen.
Having played throught some games in 5E now I must say that, having a cleric around with enought diamonds is useful. I think that the lvl and materials requirements for the spells are good as they are right now. It’s balanced and, believe it or nor, not all the clerics choose revivify every day... so even if the have access to that spell it could be that they can’t cast it when it’s needed.
One house rule that I do use, is the “death rule” from Matt Mercer. Every time you need to be resurrected ( it doesn’t matter the spell used) you have to beat a DC. Starting at 10 and rising 2 for every time after the first one. Your friends can perfom a task that could help the cleric performing the resurrection ritual lower that DC, by “calling back your soul”. A song, some words, giving you presents with meaning for your character that strengthens the bond between the characters... and a appropiate roll ( perform, persuasion, even intimidation “you are going to wake up!!” ) must be made. The result of that roll could lower, or raise on a failure the DC by 1 or 2 ( DM choose)
I also endorse the points that Northwestniner asked you :)
I basically want to keep the feeling of danger that the campaign has at earlier levels. Be careful not to die because your character is perma-dead if that happens. At higher levels, I want this same sense of danger to be maintained. As for not choosing revivify, that also works: If you prevent things killing you in the first place, you won't have to worry about someone bringing you back from the dead.
Also, revivify doesn't increase its casting cost with subsequent heals. That rule only applies to NPC death.
I read Matt Mercer's rules. I am going to implement it in any future campaigns I may run. However, I want to create the same feeling of "Oh shit! Our friend died. We have to resurrect him before it's too late (Revivify)" or make the question of whether to heal someone who's at low health/making death saves now or hope that he doesn't get killed and wait for next turn.
I thought I addressed the questions Northwest asked... If you have more questions regarding post 557, please ask.
Well I always thought that feeling must be obtained both for the way the DM and the players tells the history rather than implement more rules about it. One can simply say that spells like revivify or resurrect aren't avaible to mortals... and that's it. No matter how high your level is.
Regarding the game thread, Gendan would be happy to bash the door in, but would like just knock loudly and yell for Samuel to come out. Does anyone want to take a different approach?
I will talk with him, hunin is fairly charismatic. but just want to get a quick recap so I can be accurate.
We were out on a search for these dark masks after the goblins had alerted us about them. Found a bug bear and a dude (was there more?) in a mask, killed the bug bear chased down the dude he lit off a firework it went pop in the sky, we continued to chase. Northwestniner(Gendan) obliterated the guy (accidentally) Came back to find the goblin outpost on fire and proceeded to put out the fire. We captured a guy along the way, I tried to intimidate didn't work brought him back to the goblin place we were able to get some info that said Samuel here was the leader. Am I forgetting anything?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Anton - Level 2 Human Monk - storm kings thunder (on Hold)
Few mistakes. You fought an owlbear, Gendan chased the guy who lit the fire works but he got away at first. Then 3 more guys lit the goblin base on fire. Gendan found them and obliterated one of them. You captured another guy. This guy told you Samuel was the leader.
I know that revealing the prep work DMs do is ill advised as it takes the players out of the campaign but...
I have just finished making the complete map of Rurik union. While you were adventuring, I had made the full map of Lun but the map of Rurik Main was still unfinished. I have now finished the map. I don't know if this is supposed to happen but looking at the complete map gives me all sorts of ideas for new quests to be had on Rurik Main and is also helping me refine my world's lore. Of course, you haven't been exploring off the beaten path in Lun very much so you didn't trigger any of the World Quests but who cares. You're the players so you get to play the game however you want. Happy gaming.
(P.S: If I seem a bit aggressive in this text, I really don't mean to be. I just pulled an all-nighter studying Physics and am a little tired. Which is why I decided to go ahead and finish the map on my break.)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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Hey, I'll be gone for 2 weeks starting this Sunday (2 September). I will try to post once per day but I can't make any promises because I don't know if I will have access to the internet or not.
No worries just have fun! :)
I am having a very busy week BTW that's why I am posting less than usual.
PbP Character: A few ;)
Just to let you know I'm going to be away on holiday from this weekend for a week. Doing a D&D holiday for my IRL game players!
Current Player In: The Guild as Elsara Deepmoon
I will be returning home tomorrow so I can resume the campaign. You guys are still interested, right?
I will be returning home tomorrow so I can resume the campaign. You guys are still interested, right?
I will be returning home tomorrow so I can resume the campaign. You guys are still interested, right?
Yes, of course!
Check out my Extended Signature here
Yep!!
PbP Character: A few ;)
Someone, Elsara maybe(?), may want to ask Torelgen about this Samuel Moris fella. Gendan's less interested in the details and just wants to move forward. She's basically ready to bite someone's head off, and playing "bad cop" was just the prelude.
Check out my Extended Signature here
The question of how to handle death in this campaign has been one I've been struggling with from the very beginning. I think I've finally come up with a way to make death more meaningful and higher levels. This is my proposed death mechanic. Please tell me if it sounds fair and what you would suggest I do.
In battle if a PC or NPC dies, a character can cast Revivify on them to bring them back to life. This spell is quite powerful now because it can bring back characters without limits other than spell slots and components and time. This spell must be cast before the battle is over otherwise, it won't work. So lethal traps are super lethal.
Raise Dead, Resurrection and True Resurrection (and wish) are the only spells that can bring PCs back after the battle is over. Raise dead can bring them back if this is the first time they've died. If this is the second time they've died you need Resurrection or True Resurrection. If this is the 3rd time they've died only True Resurrection can bring them back. If they've died more than 3 times, they will stay dead.
Reincarnation can be cast at 9th level to bring a character back for a 4th time but that spell must be cast at 9th level and it requires components worth 30,000 gp. Doing so will randomize the character's race, gender and stats (give them a new set of rolled stats that the players must use). This can't be done if the character gets themselves killed a 5th time.
Life Transference can also be used to bring someone back from the dead. Using a 9th level spell slot and a special ritual that costs 500 gp and 2 hours to prepare, you can sacrifice one willing person to bring another willing person to life. If either of the NPC/PC is unwilling, the spell fails and nobody dies. Nobody is brought back, but nobody dies. People sacrificed this way can't be brought back by other spells (Even Wish won't work) no matter how many times they've died before.
NPCs, once dead will stay dead most of the time. NPCs that died in battle can be brought back with Revivify following the restrictions mentioned above. Once the battle is over, NPCs can't be brought back through any means other than Life Transference and Reincarnate. If you use Reincarnate, they will be brought back as a 1 year old child. Other than this, casting True Resurrection at 9th level immediately after the battle is over will bring the NPC back. This can only be done provided the NPC hasn't died before. To bring back other NPCs, the cost of casting doubles. If NPC-A dies and is brought back and NPC-B dies a few months later, to bring NPC-B back will require 50,000 gp and so on.
I’m not sure I see the need for changing the rules on Revivify, it already is limited to one minute after the creature has died, which is usually within the scope of a battle or immediately after if the fight was short (fewer than 10 rounds). Nerfing Revivify also negates any reasonable chance at saving a character before a PC reaches level 9 (access to level 5 spells).
As for the price points, I don’t see any of these as proportional with the amount of treasure the campaign is providing at this point. If you have planned treasure to have a steep uptick, then those prices might become reasonable.
Is there a reason why you want your campaign to be more fatal? Have you asked your players if they want that? Often times players put a fair amount of time, effort, and energy into building their characters, so I’m wondering what your vision is for the player(s) when a character dies. Are there limits on what class/race/etc. they can rebuild? Can they rebuild an identical character with a different name? Is the player out?
In the case of resurrecting NPCs, are the costs going up for characters casting the spell, or does it affect hiring someone like a cleric to do the work? It makes sense if we keep going back to the same cleric that they might raise the price, or that it may require more for a character that has died many times, but if it’s a totally unrelated circumstance, is the rationale that the gods are punishing us for killing innocents by raising the cost of cailing on the divine power of resurrection?
Check out my Extended Signature here
The raising price is not exactly the gods punishing you but they are getting annoyed that the same group of people are asking a cleric (doesn't matter which one) to bring back people from the dead from time to time. The rules for resurrecting NPCs are different from PCs because I'm treating PCs as being people with an inherent talent in whatever field (class) they are in. You know how some cattle are inherently better cattle because of genes? It's like that but with adventurers. PCs better genes combined with the fact that the other PCs obviously have a stronger bond with them than NPCs makes it easier to resurrect PCs compared to NPCs.
The reason Revivfy was nerfed is to make traps still a threat at higher levels. Also in a battle perspective, you can still resurrect a character with the spell because it is a 3rd level spell but I see your point and can keep it as is written.
Yes, the amount of treasure you will gain in later levels (Though you can't see it, I have divided all missions into their own levels to help me with pacing. You are currently on the last level 1 mission) will be significantly more than what you are getting now.
As for why I want campaign to be more fatal is because I want death to have a consequence. Right now, you guys don't have enough gold and you don't have resurrection spells so death is a pretty consequence. I want death to always be a big risk. A lot of the difficulty, dungeon and quest design in this campaign is based on my experience in playing video games (SRPGs especially). One of the things I disliked while playing Final Fantasy Tactics Advance (a game this campaign takes heavy inspiration from) is that I could just play completely recklessly as long as I had one character still standing. On the other hand, I hated Fire Emblem's perma-death that gave you no way of reviving dead characters should you make a mistake. The place where I did like it though, was with Knight of Lodis where you can bring dead characters back to life but only if you don't complete the battle with them dead. I don't want the campaign to be fatal in that it's too easy for your characters to die but I do want it to have consequence and an element of urgency should it happen.
Having played throught some games in 5E now I must say that, having a cleric around with enought diamonds is useful. I think that the lvl and materials requirements for the spells are good as they are right now. It’s balanced and, believe it or nor, not all the clerics choose revivify every day... so even if the have access to that spell it could be that they can’t cast it when it’s needed.
One house rule that I do use, is the “death rule” from Matt Mercer. Every time you need to be resurrected ( it doesn’t matter the spell used) you have to beat a DC. Starting at 10 and rising 2 for every time after the first one. Your friends can perfom a task that could help the cleric performing the resurrection ritual lower that DC, by “calling back your soul”. A song, some words, giving you presents with meaning for your character that strengthens the bond between the characters... and a appropiate roll ( perform, persuasion, even intimidation “you are going to wake up!!” ) must be made. The result of that roll could lower, or raise on a failure the DC by 1 or 2 ( DM choose)
I also endorse the points that Northwestniner asked you :)
PbP Character: A few ;)
I basically want to keep the feeling of danger that the campaign has at earlier levels. Be careful not to die because your character is perma-dead if that happens. At higher levels, I want this same sense of danger to be maintained. As for not choosing revivify, that also works: If you prevent things killing you in the first place, you won't have to worry about someone bringing you back from the dead.
Also, revivify doesn't increase its casting cost with subsequent heals. That rule only applies to NPC death.
I read Matt Mercer's rules. I am going to implement it in any future campaigns I may run. However, I want to create the same feeling of "Oh shit! Our friend died. We have to resurrect him before it's too late (Revivify)" or make the question of whether to heal someone who's at low health/making death saves now or hope that he doesn't get killed and wait for next turn.
I thought I addressed the questions Northwest asked... If you have more questions regarding post 557, please ask.
Well I always thought that feeling must be obtained both for the way the DM and the players tells the history rather than implement more rules about it. One can simply say that spells like revivify or resurrect aren't avaible to mortals... and that's it. No matter how high your level is.
PbP Character: A few ;)
Then you have the Fire Emblem problem where if you die, you die. I want at least some way to revive them that doesn't remove the consequence of death.
Regarding the game thread, Gendan would be happy to bash the door in, but would like just knock loudly and yell for Samuel to come out. Does anyone want to take a different approach?
Check out my Extended Signature here
I will talk with him, hunin is fairly charismatic. but just want to get a quick recap so I can be accurate.
We were out on a search for these dark masks after the goblins had alerted us about them. Found a bug bear and a dude (was there more?) in a mask, killed the bug bear chased down the dude he lit off a firework it went pop in the sky, we continued to chase. Northwestniner(Gendan) obliterated the guy (accidentally) Came back to find the goblin outpost on fire and proceeded to put out the fire. We captured a guy along the way, I tried to intimidate didn't work brought him back to the goblin place we were able to get some info that said Samuel here was the leader. Am I forgetting anything?
Anton - Level 2 Human Monk - storm kings thunder (on Hold)
Few mistakes. You fought an owlbear, Gendan chased the guy who lit the fire works but he got away at first. Then 3 more guys lit the goblin base on fire. Gendan found them and obliterated one of them. You captured another guy. This guy told you Samuel was the leader.
I know that revealing the prep work DMs do is ill advised as it takes the players out of the campaign but...
I have just finished making the complete map of Rurik union. While you were adventuring, I had made the full map of Lun but the map of Rurik Main was still unfinished. I have now finished the map. I don't know if this is supposed to happen but looking at the complete map gives me all sorts of ideas for new quests to be had on Rurik Main and is also helping me refine my world's lore. Of course, you haven't been exploring off the beaten path in Lun very much so you didn't trigger any of the World Quests but who cares. You're the players so you get to play the game however you want. Happy gaming.
(P.S: If I seem a bit aggressive in this text, I really don't mean to be. I just pulled an all-nighter studying Physics and am a little tired. Which is why I decided to go ahead and finish the map on my break.)