What is a Beholder's blood supposed to do for them? Normally, blood is used to transport materials around the body, but apparently Beholders already have that covered with some weird trachea and/or intestinal tubule system. So why is there blood on top of that?
Well, I imagine that a beholder's bloodstream is mainly to maintain their large brains. You can't exactly pump minerals and nutrients across the entire beholder's body from a system mainly in the trachea/intestines. This blood vessel system likely also supplies minerals and nutrients into the eye-stalks and eyes, which are the most distant appendages from the beholder's central body.
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Former Spider Queen of the Spider Guild. Join today! May we cast our web across the realms!
"Made by spiders, for spiders, of spiders."
My pronouns are she/her.
Web Weaver of Everlasting Narative! (title bestowed by Drummer)
Are you guys busy doing alien autopsy on Fantasy creatures now? LOL.
All jokes aside I like to reference the Wiki on this. On a personal note, the Beholder Autopsy must be a pain considering the body petrifies upon death. To really put a fun confusion into things just imagine what a story teller could come up with one of the odd things about Beholders dreaming. According to Volo's a Beholder could possibly warp reality in their dreams, which can include anything you can imagine. Happy gaming!!!!
Unlike a humanoid heart that pumps blood around the body constantly, beholders had a central 'blood sac' that, in conjunction with a powerfully muscled diaphragm, pushed blood into the beholder's blood vessels, then pulled the blood back into the sac. ( Arron Allston (1996). I, Tyrant. (TSR, Inc.), p. 5. ISBN 0-7869-0404-6.)
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I am not sure what my Spirit Animal is. But whatever that thing is, I am pretty sure it has rabies!
It wasn't a question of whether they had blood but why do they have blood.
Who knows? Good luck getting any Beholder to tell you. Aberrations often don't make sense.
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
It wasn't a question of whether they had blood but why do they have blood.
Who knows? Good luck getting any Beholder to tell you. Aberrations often don't make sense.
I am not sure if you intended the joke. But that is the entire point of aberrations....
Aberation: Noun; a departure from what is normal, usual, or expected, typically one that is unwelcome. (Biology): a characteristic that deviates from the normal type. (Optics): the failure of rays to converge at one focus because of limitations or defects in a lens or mirror.
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I am not sure what my Spirit Animal is. But whatever that thing is, I am pretty sure it has rabies!
I was going by how the Xanathar never seems to make any sense. (It makes me wonder if that lair has some kind of maddening effect on Beholders because the Xanathar is whichever Beholder is inhabiting that lair at the time and they're all equally nuts.)
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I hear you EricHVela. Xanathar always seemed like a mythical creature, but he was just a mid level lieutenant in a much bigger game. Even the death of the original Xanathar is anything but clear. There is so much intrigue between different criminal organizations, some say it was Kirukeskai who killed him, some say the Heroes of Waterdeep. Supposedly Xanathar at that point turned from a creatures name, to that of a Title. The main take away is "The Xanathar" is like the "Dread Pirate Roberts" from the Princess Bride. Whoever is in charge of the Thieves Guild in Waterdeep is called Xanathar. Because everyone is trying to kill him and take his power. Not to mention that Beholders have like a 150 year shelf life, and between years 60-150 they are definitely past their prime unless they can evolve or they find another way to gain power.
But I find everything about Beholders to be "Aberrant". I like the descriptions you get when authors talk about the minds of aberrant creatures, how the mind is so alien that it can actually paralyze or stun people who can read their minds. But then trying to figure out the biology of a creature who is in the shape of a beach ball, supposedly has 1 shot at procreation that doesn't involve reality warping, and has specific eating ritual when it comes to procreation due to how they gestate inside of Beholders. So trying to figure out the blood got me laughing so I thoroughly enjoyed listening to your ideas and discussing them.
One other thing I find interesting is reading the supplemental info that WotC put into dragon magazines and those are usually archived. One of the earliest passages about beholders came from 1983 Dragon #76 Pg.6 https://annarchive.com/files/Drmg076.pdf
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I am not sure what my Spirit Animal is. But whatever that thing is, I am pretty sure it has rabies!
I'm not familiar with Xanathar's appearances in the Waterdeep books, if he's in there, or really did the fine print in XGTE, but where does it say Beholders have blood? Or all Beholders have blood? Or that bit about trachea and esophagus going everywhere (but let's realize in normal breathing and eating, what is inhaled or ingested goes to the lungs or stomach so the needed components are stripped and then carried through the circulatory system to their destinations).
If you can get access to the the discontinued Volo's the Beholder write has a high inspiration over set lore ratio. One thing I like there is the idea that Beholders aren't so much physically born so much as psychologically dreamt up by the parent Beholder or Beholders. So a group of related Beholders would likely have anatomical similarities, but another group could have. totally different anatomy. Some may have blood, some may have "ichor" (a fun concept to play with when dealing with extraplanar being or abberations), some have some sort of osmosis system that does all the work without blood or other circulatory substance.
Maybe we're talking a needed spell component? Perhaps the "blood of a beholder" is a riddle, or a fool's errand, made up by beholders, of course.
Fun thought: maybe bloodless beholders, lacking a blood brain barrier, are why some beholders are alleged to be able to shape reality with their minds. The blood brain barrier protects the brain but also protects reality from the power of the mind ... or so some beholder worshipping cultists may believe.
My response to this is the circulatory system takes nutrients to the individual cells. The trachea and digestive tract thing would only get nutrients into the general area of a bunch of cells. Blood mostly takes nutrients to cells and takes away waste, takes oxygen to cells and takes away waste gases. So it is the final step in transporting life to the cells.
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
I'm not familiar with Xanathar's appearances in the Waterdeep books, if he's in there, or really did the fine print in XGTE, but where does it say Beholders have blood? Or all Beholders have blood? Or that bit about trachea and esophagus going everywhere (but let's realize in normal breathing and eating, what is inhaled or ingested goes to the lungs or stomach so the needed components are stripped and then carried through the circulatory system to their destinations).
If you can get access to the the discontinued Volo's the Beholder write has a high inspiration over set lore ratio. One thing I like there is the idea that Beholders aren't so much physically born so much as psychologically dreamt up by the parent Beholder or Beholders. So a group of related Beholders would likely have anatomical similarities, but another group could have. totally different anatomy. Some may have blood, some may have "ichor" (a fun concept to play with when dealing with extraplanar being or abberations), some have some sort of osmosis system that does all the work without blood or other circulatory substance.
Maybe we're talking a needed spell component? Perhaps the "blood of a beholder" is a riddle, or a fool's errand, made up by beholders, of course.
Fun thought: maybe bloodless beholders, lacking a blood brain barrier, are why some beholders are alleged to be able to shape reality with their minds. The blood brain barrier protects the brain but also protects reality from the power of the mind ... or so some beholder worshipping cultists may believe.
I actually cited the book and page of where I got my information. Just reread that and you can go find the sections that talk about Beholder's blood.
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I am not sure what my Spirit Animal is. But whatever that thing is, I am pretty sure it has rabies!
Right, but you're insisting on consistency where there isn't. The Dragon article discusses egg laying which is very different from the, I think more fascinating, notion in the present editions MTOF that describes Beholders are reproduced through the dreams of another Beholder or Beholders.
If someone wants to discuss about whether or not a being has blood or what color that blood is, they can go questing in the inconsistencies of prior lore, but there's a lot of food for thought to inspire the bizarreness of beholders in the present edition. In other words, aberrations, particularly beholders, are the best candidates for literal occult anatomy.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
If you assumed that I was saying there is anything consistent under TSR or WoTC you can just stop assuming, because I will never say those words. LOL!!
I simply posted 2 spots that I know I have read and even listed the date and ISBN of the books from back in the early 90's. And suggested people to read Dragon Magazine archives for any supplemental information you may have missed over the decades.
If you are looking for solid consistency you will not find it in this game very often. There are certain concepts that are concrete and easy to understand and those will never change. But say the physiology of a mythical monster, game mechanics, or even the description of a spell will change from one author to another. And sometimes they will change by editions. Most of the material is to inspire stories, and are great as a reference. I have noticed over the years that Beholders have changed quite a lot. Back in 1985 I knew of only 1 kind of beholder. But as of today I can pick out at least 8 variety of eye tyrant, and of those no 2 are alike with even physiological differences. They talk about Beholders who procreate by warping reality, but they also are capable of 1 litter which they push out their reproduction organs on their first birth. Not to mention they are sexless.
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I am not sure what my Spirit Animal is. But whatever that thing is, I am pretty sure it has rabies!
I think you're replying to me, and I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me, but I think you actually agree with me that beholder anatomy is very much up in the air, so to speak.
Those are great citations, and it's cool to look at other lore.
However, my questions were toward the OP, who seems to have abandoned this thread, my question was asking why the OP thought their games beholders needed blood or not.
I'm not familiar with Xanathar's appearances in the Waterdeep books, if he's in there, or really did the fine print in XGTE, but where does it say Beholders have blood? Or all Beholders have blood? Or that bit about trachea and esophagus going everywhere (but let's realize in normal breathing and eating, what is inhaled or ingested goes to the lungs or stomach so the needed components are stripped and then carried through the circulatory system to their destinations).
If you can get access to the the discontinued Volo's the Beholder write has a high inspiration over set lore ratio. One thing I like there is the idea that Beholders aren't so much physically born so much as psychologically dreamt up by the parent Beholder or Beholders. So a group of related Beholders would likely have anatomical similarities, but another group could have. totally different anatomy. Some may have blood, some may have "ichor" (a fun concept to play with when dealing with extraplanar being or abberations), some have some sort of osmosis system that does all the work without blood or other circulatory substance.
Maybe we're talking a needed spell component? Perhaps the "blood of a beholder" is a riddle, or a fool's errand, made up by beholders, of course.
Fun thought: maybe bloodless beholders, lacking a blood brain barrier, are why some beholders are alleged to be able to shape reality with their minds. The blood brain barrier protects the brain but also protects reality from the power of the mind ... or so some beholder worshipping cultists may believe.
I actually cited the book and page of where I got my information. Just reread that and you can go find the sections that talk about Beholder's blood.
Remember that in-lore, Volothamp Geddarm is known to exaggerate and exemplify aspects of creatures for entertainment purposes, so if you're looking at it from a lore perspective, Volo probably isn't the most reliable source.
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What is a Beholder's blood supposed to do for them? Normally, blood is used to transport materials around the body, but apparently Beholders already have that covered with some weird trachea and/or intestinal tubule system. So why is there blood on top of that?
Well, I imagine that a beholder's bloodstream is mainly to maintain their large brains. You can't exactly pump minerals and nutrients across the entire beholder's body from a system mainly in the trachea/intestines. This blood vessel system likely also supplies minerals and nutrients into the eye-stalks and eyes, which are the most distant appendages from the beholder's central body.
Former Spider Queen of the Spider Guild. Join today! May we cast our web across the realms!
"Made by spiders, for spiders, of spiders."
My pronouns are she/her.
Web Weaver of Everlasting Narative! (title bestowed by Drummer)
Couldn't the tracheae just be extended into the brain/eyestalks rather than needing an entirely new system that weighs them down and takes up space?
Are you guys busy doing alien autopsy on Fantasy creatures now? LOL.
All jokes aside I like to reference the Wiki on this. On a personal note, the Beholder Autopsy must be a pain considering the body petrifies upon death. To really put a fun confusion into things just imagine what a story teller could come up with one of the odd things about Beholders dreaming. According to Volo's a Beholder could possibly warp reality in their dreams, which can include anything you can imagine. Happy gaming!!!!
Blood
Beholder blood was green. (Dale "slade" Henson (April 1991). Realmspace. Edited by Gary L. Thomas, Karen S. Boomgarden. (TSR, Inc), p. 48. ISBN 1-56076-052-4.)
Unlike a humanoid heart that pumps blood around the body constantly, beholders had a central 'blood sac' that, in conjunction with a powerfully muscled diaphragm, pushed blood into the beholder's blood vessels, then pulled the blood back into the sac. ( Arron Allston (1996). I, Tyrant. (TSR, Inc.), p. 5. ISBN 0-7869-0404-6.)
I am not sure what my Spirit Animal is. But whatever that thing is, I am pretty sure it has rabies!
It wasn't a question of whether they had blood but why do they have blood.
Who knows? Good luck getting any Beholder to tell you. Aberrations often don't make sense.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I am not sure if you intended the joke. But that is the entire point of aberrations....
Aberation: Noun; a departure from what is normal, usual, or expected, typically one that is unwelcome. (Biology): a characteristic that deviates from the normal type. (Optics): the failure of rays to converge at one focus because of limitations or defects in a lens or mirror.
I am not sure what my Spirit Animal is. But whatever that thing is, I am pretty sure it has rabies!
I was going by how the Xanathar never seems to make any sense. (It makes me wonder if that lair has some kind of maddening effect on Beholders because the Xanathar is whichever Beholder is inhabiting that lair at the time and they're all equally nuts.)
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I hear you EricHVela. Xanathar always seemed like a mythical creature, but he was just a mid level lieutenant in a much bigger game. Even the death of the original Xanathar is anything but clear. There is so much intrigue between different criminal organizations, some say it was Kirukeskai who killed him, some say the Heroes of Waterdeep. Supposedly Xanathar at that point turned from a creatures name, to that of a Title. The main take away is "The Xanathar" is like the "Dread Pirate Roberts" from the Princess Bride. Whoever is in charge of the Thieves Guild in Waterdeep is called Xanathar. Because everyone is trying to kill him and take his power. Not to mention that Beholders have like a 150 year shelf life, and between years 60-150 they are definitely past their prime unless they can evolve or they find another way to gain power.
But I find everything about Beholders to be "Aberrant". I like the descriptions you get when authors talk about the minds of aberrant creatures, how the mind is so alien that it can actually paralyze or stun people who can read their minds. But then trying to figure out the biology of a creature who is in the shape of a beach ball, supposedly has 1 shot at procreation that doesn't involve reality warping, and has specific eating ritual when it comes to procreation due to how they gestate inside of Beholders. So trying to figure out the blood got me laughing so I thoroughly enjoyed listening to your ideas and discussing them.
One other thing I find interesting is reading the supplemental info that WotC put into dragon magazines and those are usually archived. One of the earliest passages about beholders came from 1983 Dragon #76 Pg.6 https://annarchive.com/files/Drmg076.pdf
I am not sure what my Spirit Animal is. But whatever that thing is, I am pretty sure it has rabies!
I'm not familiar with Xanathar's appearances in the Waterdeep books, if he's in there, or really did the fine print in XGTE, but where does it say Beholders have blood? Or all Beholders have blood? Or that bit about trachea and esophagus going everywhere (but let's realize in normal breathing and eating, what is inhaled or ingested goes to the lungs or stomach so the needed components are stripped and then carried through the circulatory system to their destinations).
If you can get access to the the discontinued Volo's the Beholder write has a high inspiration over set lore ratio. One thing I like there is the idea that Beholders aren't so much physically born so much as psychologically dreamt up by the parent Beholder or Beholders. So a group of related Beholders would likely have anatomical similarities, but another group could have. totally different anatomy. Some may have blood, some may have "ichor" (a fun concept to play with when dealing with extraplanar being or abberations), some have some sort of osmosis system that does all the work without blood or other circulatory substance.
Maybe we're talking a needed spell component? Perhaps the "blood of a beholder" is a riddle, or a fool's errand, made up by beholders, of course.
Fun thought: maybe bloodless beholders, lacking a blood brain barrier, are why some beholders are alleged to be able to shape reality with their minds. The blood brain barrier protects the brain but also protects reality from the power of the mind ... or so some beholder worshipping cultists may believe.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
My response to this is the circulatory system takes nutrients to the individual cells. The trachea and digestive tract thing would only get nutrients into the general area of a bunch of cells. Blood mostly takes nutrients to cells and takes away waste, takes oxygen to cells and takes away waste gases. So it is the final step in transporting life to the cells.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
I actually cited the book and page of where I got my information. Just reread that and you can go find the sections that talk about Beholder's blood.
I am not sure what my Spirit Animal is. But whatever that thing is, I am pretty sure it has rabies!
Right, but you're insisting on consistency where there isn't. The Dragon article discusses egg laying which is very different from the, I think more fascinating, notion in the present editions MTOF that describes Beholders are reproduced through the dreams of another Beholder or Beholders.
If someone wants to discuss about whether or not a being has blood or what color that blood is, they can go questing in the inconsistencies of prior lore, but there's a lot of food for thought to inspire the bizarreness of beholders in the present edition. In other words, aberrations, particularly beholders, are the best candidates for literal occult anatomy.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
If you assumed that I was saying there is anything consistent under TSR or WoTC you can just stop assuming, because I will never say those words. LOL!!
I simply posted 2 spots that I know I have read and even listed the date and ISBN of the books from back in the early 90's. And suggested people to read Dragon Magazine archives for any supplemental information you may have missed over the decades.
If you are looking for solid consistency you will not find it in this game very often. There are certain concepts that are concrete and easy to understand and those will never change. But say the physiology of a mythical monster, game mechanics, or even the description of a spell will change from one author to another. And sometimes they will change by editions. Most of the material is to inspire stories, and are great as a reference. I have noticed over the years that Beholders have changed quite a lot. Back in 1985 I knew of only 1 kind of beholder. But as of today I can pick out at least 8 variety of eye tyrant, and of those no 2 are alike with even physiological differences. They talk about Beholders who procreate by warping reality, but they also are capable of 1 litter which they push out their reproduction organs on their first birth. Not to mention they are sexless.
I am not sure what my Spirit Animal is. But whatever that thing is, I am pretty sure it has rabies!
I think you're replying to me, and I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me, but I think you actually agree with me that beholder anatomy is very much up in the air, so to speak.
Those are great citations, and it's cool to look at other lore.
However, my questions were toward the OP, who seems to have abandoned this thread, my question was asking why the OP thought their games beholders needed blood or not.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Short answer: Because they can.
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Remember that in-lore, Volothamp Geddarm is known to exaggerate and exemplify aspects of creatures for entertainment purposes, so if you're looking at it from a lore perspective, Volo probably isn't the most reliable source.
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