Not really sure where to put this, but when i was checking the Spell points casting variant pages in the DMG, i din't find any mention of the Warlocks.
You ge this line;
The Spell Points by Level table applies to bards, clerics, druids, sorcerers, and wizards. For a paladin or ranger, halve the character’s level in that class and then consult the table. For a fighter (Eldritch Knight) or rogue (Arcane Trickster), divide the character’s level in that class by three.
Annnnd thats it, no mention of Warlocks anywhere...
So how do you calculate the Warlocks spell levels and spell points using this chart?...
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"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
Are waaay too limited in spellslots for the few really usefull invocations they get as a tradeoff.
And its beyond stupid to burn one of your 4 lvl5 spellslots to cast darkness for example or any other kind of spell that either doesn't scale with spellslots lvl or that doesn't offer much more with higher lvl casting.
Thats why many people look at alternatives, spell points looked good, even if you use the same progresion as a pally (half the lvl)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
Thats the way it is for warlocks. At least they get their slots back on short rest. Spell point variant rule simply isn't meant to effect them.
Spell points are really good for casters to use their spells more effectively. A level 4 caster could cast 5 level 2 spells or 7 level 1 spells in order to get what they need when they need it.
Are waaay too limited in spellslots for the few really usefull invocations they get as a tradeoff.
And its beyond stupid to burn one of your 4 lvl5 spellslots to cast darkness for example or any other kind of spell that either doesn't scale with spellslots lvl or that doesn't offer much more with higher lvl casting.
Thats why many people look at alternatives, spell points looked good, even if you use the same progresion as a pally (half the lvl)
The key thing to remember about warlocks is that they aren't full casters. They are closer to rangers or arcane archers than they are to wizards or sorcerers. Most of the time they use Eldritch Blast which is similar to weapon attacks with extra attack. (Or they use weapon attacks directly if pact of blade) They have spells to augment their primary attack, but are not intended to have the variety of spells that wizards and sorcerers get
search for "Spell Point Warlocks" on DMsGuild.com. Iare we allowed to link dmsguild stuff here?) This pdf provides spell point progression that is compliant with DMG p288 variant rules while still offering short rest pact magic and long rest mystic arcanum.
Page 3 4 and 5 of the free preview provides the progression table and How to Use. If you like, it, buy it and leave 5 star review!
search for "Spell Point Warlocks" on DMsGuild.com. Iare we allowed to link dmsguild stuff here?) This pdf provides spell point progression that is compliant with DMG p288 variant rules while still offering short rest pact magic and long rest mystic arcanum.
Page 3 4 and 5 of the free preview provides the progression table and How to Use. If you like, it, buy it and leave 5 star review!
1 this thread is almost 2 years old.
2 spell points do not work with warlocks. Their slots are always at the same level.
1. People still ask. This thread hasn't needed an update because there wasn't a better answer yet. Now they can use Spell Point Warlocks
2. WOTC design philosophy is to stay simple. Simple gets more players buying. Spell slots are simple, and the warlock uses spell slots differently. Converting warlocks to the p288 spell point mechanics is complicated. It would have taken an extra page just for warlocks-- you'll see that in the Spell Point Warlocks preview. IF spell points was a priority to WOTC they would've devoted more than 1/2 page to it... but it's not, so they kept it simple, and said pact =/= spellcasting, and thus, they didn't have to devote the extra space explaining it.
You might not be interested, but folks here asked because they are. The solution is on DMsGuild, and paying is optional. Enjoy!
It still goes against the warlock's design philosophy. If you can cast spells at lower levels, you are not playing a warlock, you are playing a sorcerer with invocations instead of metamagic, that gets half its slots back on a short rest.
And I took a quick look at the homebrew book (emphasis on quick) and it is loosely based on spell points and pact magic (which it kind of has to be since pact magic rules make spell points meaningless). It also has rules for 10th level spells which is also against the 5e rules.
I don't think the OP was wanting to completely ignore pact magic or game balance when they asked about spell points 2 years ago.
Warlock Pact Magic has a very particular design that is vulnerable to issues if given flexible spell points. Aside from being able to cast lower level spells, being able to cast more spells is an issue, regardless of level. (Let's not delve into SorLock shennanigans).
Warlocks get access to a decent magic progression, but are not primary casters. Spell points let them operate more like Slow-Burn Casters, rather than as Eldritch Wanderers with dark gifts.
Not everyone will want to use spell points for warlocks, so stick to what's right for your campaign. OP specifically asked what the point progression for warlocks is using the DMG p288... the first 5 pages of Spell Point Warlocks provides those mechanics while retaining the difference between short rest pact magic and long rest mystic arcanum in a smooth level progression that ends with the same amount of raw spell power expected for warlocks in tier 4 play. Anything after page 5 is variant rules that folks can use or ignore: they are all modular by design. I'll also say that you don't have to pay anything to assess for yourself if warlocks should use Spell Point Warlocks. The entire document is free to view. If it adds value to your game, buy it.
Thanks so much for looking it up and seeing if it jives with what you want for your games!
@filkearney- Excellent content on dms guild! I’m using it in my campaign now and love it!
Just saw this, and thrilled to hear it!
also, artificer and ranger/drakewarden are a bit wonky with their spell slots paying for extra turrets, drake's breath etc. That's provided in the preview of "Universal Spell Points and High Magic" also on DMsGuild which was updated today.
Couldn’t you just use the spell level cost to determine the number of points that the slot provides and call it a pact Magic pool? its balanced and allows for pact specific requirements.
Couldn’t you just use the spell level cost to determine the number of points that the slot provides and call it a pact Magic pool? its balanced and allows for pact specific requirements.
You could house rule that sure, but it would fundamentally go against what makes pact magic different from other spellcasting.
Warlock slots are always at their highest level. If you want to not do that, might I suggest a different class (or just multiclass, 3 levels of sorcerer covers spells you dont want to up cast fantastically).
In what way is it fundamentally different when you are literally allowed to convert pact slots to points with sorcerer for points which follow the same slot/point standards? You are allowed to cast any spell you know with pact slots/points. It’s only important when a feature says you can only use pact slots. It allows warlocks more casting flexibility, just like full casters would have in a spell point system and by keeping separate pools you know if you have warlock magic for that. The spell point pools only mix well if you’re a sorcerer. It seems fair and balanced to me.slots being the highest level isn’t a lynchpin of the classes features. The defining feature is getting their spell powers back on a short rest. I’m not sure how it’s imbalanced if other classes can choose to have spell point flexibility based on their slot exchanges for points also. You could also require that warlock spells Cast with points have to be cast at the highest warlock spell level and use the corresponding point buy. Then it still allows you to carve up warlock slots for lower level spells as a multiclass. This whole thought experiment is about casting flexibility and balance. I don’t think warlocks become imbalanced but it does change the feel of a warlock. They would be more willing to use lower level spells. The point of spell point systems is for flexibility.
To me that sounds like arguing that all martial classes should get action surge because they could do so if they just multiclassed fighter. Taking levels in another class lets you do things you couldn't do otherwise.
Not really sure where to put this, but when i was checking the Spell points casting variant pages in the DMG, i din't find any mention of the Warlocks.
You ge this line;
The Spell Points by Level table applies to bards, clerics, druids, sorcerers, and wizards. For a paladin or ranger, halve the character’s level in that class and then consult the table. For a fighter (Eldritch Knight) or rogue (Arcane Trickster), divide the character’s level in that class by three.
Annnnd thats it, no mention of Warlocks anywhere...
So how do you calculate the Warlocks spell levels and spell points using this chart?...
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
Kain de Frostberg- Dark Knight - (Vengeance Pal3/ Hexblade 9), Port Mourn
Kain de Draakberg-Dark Knight lvl8-Avergreen(DitA)
Warlocks can not use spell points because thier spells are always at max level.
I don't think the spell point option is yet available to any class on DnDBeyond. At least not that I have been able to find so far.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Not to mention, I see a pattern. That’s a spell casting alternative, right? Well, warlocks use Pact Magic, not spell casting.
Extended Signature! Yay! https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/off-topic/adohands-kitchen/3153-extended-signature-thread?page=2#c21
Haven’t used this account in forever. Still a big fan of crawling claws.
Still use the dreadfull spellslots
Are waaay too limited in spellslots for the few really usefull invocations they get as a tradeoff.
And its beyond stupid to burn one of your 4 lvl5 spellslots to cast darkness for example or any other kind of spell that either doesn't scale with spellslots lvl or that doesn't offer much more with higher lvl casting.
Thats why many people look at alternatives, spell points looked good, even if you use the same progresion as a pally (half the lvl)
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
Kain de Frostberg- Dark Knight - (Vengeance Pal3/ Hexblade 9), Port Mourn
Kain de Draakberg-Dark Knight lvl8-Avergreen(DitA)
Thats the way it is for warlocks. At least they get their slots back on short rest. Spell point variant rule simply isn't meant to effect them.
Spell points are really good for casters to use their spells more effectively. A level 4 caster could cast 5 level 2 spells or 7 level 1 spells in order to get what they need when they need it.
The let thing to remember about warlocks is that they aren't intended
The key thing to remember about warlocks is that they aren't full casters. They are closer to rangers or arcane archers than they are to wizards or sorcerers. Most of the time they use Eldritch Blast which is similar to weapon attacks with extra attack. (Or they use weapon attacks directly if pact of blade) They have spells to augment their primary attack, but are not intended to have the variety of spells that wizards and sorcerers get
search for "Spell Point Warlocks" on DMsGuild.com. Iare we allowed to link dmsguild stuff here?)
This pdf provides spell point progression that is compliant with DMG p288 variant rules while still offering short rest pact magic and long rest mystic arcanum.
Page 3 4 and 5 of the free preview provides the progression table and How to Use.
If you like, it, buy it and leave 5 star review!
1 this thread is almost 2 years old.
2 spell points do not work with warlocks. Their slots are always at the same level.
1. People still ask. This thread hasn't needed an update because there wasn't a better answer yet. Now they can use Spell Point Warlocks
2. WOTC design philosophy is to stay simple. Simple gets more players buying. Spell slots are simple, and the warlock uses spell slots differently. Converting warlocks to the p288 spell point mechanics is complicated. It would have taken an extra page just for warlocks-- you'll see that in the Spell Point Warlocks preview. IF spell points was a priority to WOTC they would've devoted more than 1/2 page to it... but it's not, so they kept it simple, and said pact =/= spellcasting, and thus, they didn't have to devote the extra space explaining it.
You might not be interested, but folks here asked because they are. The solution is on DMsGuild, and paying is optional. Enjoy!
It still goes against the warlock's design philosophy. If you can cast spells at lower levels, you are not playing a warlock, you are playing a sorcerer with invocations instead of metamagic, that gets half its slots back on a short rest.
And I took a quick look at the homebrew book (emphasis on quick) and it is loosely based on spell points and pact magic (which it kind of has to be since pact magic rules make spell points meaningless). It also has rules for 10th level spells which is also against the 5e rules.
I don't think the OP was wanting to completely ignore pact magic or game balance when they asked about spell points 2 years ago.
Agreeing with DxJxC.
Warlock Pact Magic has a very particular design that is vulnerable to issues if given flexible spell points. Aside from being able to cast lower level spells, being able to cast more spells is an issue, regardless of level. (Let's not delve into SorLock shennanigans).
Warlocks get access to a decent magic progression, but are not primary casters. Spell points let them operate more like Slow-Burn Casters, rather than as Eldritch Wanderers with dark gifts.
Not everyone will want to use spell points for warlocks, so stick to what's right for your campaign.
OP specifically asked what the point progression for warlocks is using the DMG p288... the first 5 pages of Spell Point Warlocks provides those mechanics while retaining the difference between short rest pact magic and long rest mystic arcanum in a smooth level progression that ends with the same amount of raw spell power expected for warlocks in tier 4 play.
Anything after page 5 is variant rules that folks can use or ignore: they are all modular by design.
I'll also say that you don't have to pay anything to assess for yourself if warlocks should use Spell Point Warlocks.
The entire document is free to view. If it adds value to your game, buy it.
Thanks so much for looking it up and seeing if it jives with what you want for your games!
@filkearney- Excellent content on dms guild! I’m using it in my campaign now and love it!
Just saw this, and thrilled to hear it!
also, artificer and ranger/drakewarden are a bit wonky with their spell slots paying for extra turrets, drake's breath etc. That's provided in the preview of "Universal Spell Points and High Magic" also on DMsGuild which was updated today.
Couldn’t you just use the spell level cost to determine the number of points that the slot provides and call it a pact Magic pool? its balanced and allows for pact specific requirements.
You could house rule that sure, but it would fundamentally go against what makes pact magic different from other spellcasting.
Warlock slots are always at their highest level. If you want to not do that, might I suggest a different class (or just multiclass, 3 levels of sorcerer covers spells you dont want to up cast fantastically).
In what way is it fundamentally different when you are literally allowed to convert pact slots to points with sorcerer for points which follow the same slot/point standards? You are allowed to cast any spell you know with pact slots/points. It’s only important when a feature says you can only use pact slots. It allows warlocks more casting flexibility, just like full casters would have in a spell point system and by keeping separate pools you know if you have warlock magic for that. The spell point pools only mix well if you’re a sorcerer. It seems fair and balanced to me.slots being the highest level isn’t a lynchpin of the classes features. The defining feature is getting their spell powers back on a short rest. I’m not sure how it’s imbalanced if other classes can choose to have spell point flexibility based on their slot exchanges for points also. You could also require that warlock spells Cast with points have to be cast at the highest warlock spell level and use the corresponding point buy. Then it still allows you to carve up warlock slots for lower level spells as a multiclass. This whole thought experiment is about casting flexibility and balance. I don’t think warlocks become imbalanced but it does change the feel of a warlock. They would be more willing to use lower level spells. The point of spell point systems is for flexibility.
To me that sounds like arguing that all martial classes should get action surge because they could do so if they just multiclassed fighter. Taking levels in another class lets you do things you couldn't do otherwise.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm