This is a poll to go along with the discussion thread posted by BeyondMisty. Please refrain from spreading the debate here, but feel free to post a short comment, if you would like.
Clarification: I am referring to intentional teleportation from effects such as Misty Step.
Can a creature under the effect of compelled duel teleport more than 30 feet away from the caster?
No. You can’t move farther than 30 feet away from the caster of compelled duel by any means, including teleportation.
Text from compelled duel:
[...] must make a Wisdom saving throw each time it attempts to move to a space that is more than 30 feet away from you; if it succeeds on this saving throw, this spell doesn’t restrict the target’s movement for that turn.
There is a two-part test to trigger booming blade's secondary damage. Part 1: You must willingly move. Part 2: You must end up 5' or more away from where you started.
My position:
Teleportation satisfies the second requirement, but not the first.
Standing up from prone satisfies the first, but not the second requirement.
When booming blade refers to moving, it means movement in the game's normal sense: moving X feet. #DnD
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Askatu, hyperfocused vedalken freedom fighter in Wildspace (Zealot barb/Swashbuckler rogue/Battle Master fighter) Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Adding text from Opportunity Attacks into the mix:
"...You can make an opportunity Attack when a Hostile creature that you can see moves out of your reach..."
"...You also don’t provoke an opportunity Attack when you Teleport or when someone or something moves you without using your Movement, action, or Reaction...."
I initially voted "No", but the phrasing of this is explicitly addressing teleportation as part of a subset of movement categories. That suggests to me that the Game Designers consider "common language" for "movement" to include teleportation. Therefore, I'm changing my vote to "Yes".
Edit: RAW, "Yes", but I would probably ignore that in my own games.
teleportation "moves" you around (That isn't to say that it is what is called "your move" or "your movement" in Chapter 9, which 5E uses to refer to the type of movement that you take on your turn up to your speed value. Dratted common terms!).
Booming Blade doesn't check whether a character is moving using (1) "your move"/"your movement", (2) another type of action/bonus action/reaction providing movement, or (3) any other movement that doesn't use "your move" or move-granting actions. It only checks if that move was "willing" (which is a whole other rabbit hole).
Assuming that you weren't forcibly teleported by an outside caster or effect, your teleportation is "willing", and it "moves" you around the battlefield. Check and check.
Rather than diving into verb tenses, I think it's helpful to take a step back and ask "what is Booming Blade about?" in a general sense. BB punishes an enemy for moving away, it's a melee attack that wants your enemy to have a reason to stay in melee. It doesn't impose a save, doesn't deliver this through a condition that can be restorationed, its just "if hit with BB, stay in melee another round or take extra damage."
If you teleport away, that's the situation BB is designed to trigger on. If you walk away, that's the situation BB is designed to trigger on. If you vaporize the soil beneath you so that you can freefall away, that's the situation BB is designed to trigger on. If you're riding a horse, and encourage it or allow it to carry you away, that's the situation BB is designed to trigger on. About the only thing it DOESN'T trigger on is being moved away unwillingly (e.g., where you didn't exercise some choice to at least allow it to happen), such as being pushed or dragged or magically compelled.
Moving vs Moved vs Moves, that's not what this interaction is about. "Willingly" and "Not in the square any longer," that's BB's two check boxes.
There is a two-part test to trigger booming blade's secondary damage. Part 1: You must willingly move. Part 2: You must end up 5' or more away from where you started.
My position:
Teleportation satisfies the second requirement, but not the first.
Standing up from prone satisfies the first, but not the second requirement.
I basically second this. I don’t see teleportation as meeting the definition of “willing” movement by default, any more than I would say standing on a ship in motion would constitute “willing” movement
I’m actually going to say no. Teleportation is interesting in that it’s literally impossible to distinguish between the teleporter moving and the rest of the world moving around them while they stay still. When you actually use your movement, it’s easy for me to intuitively accept that the coordinate system is anchored to the environment; but with teleportation, I find myself unable to accept that so easily, perhaps because it doesn’t involve interacting with the environment?
At the same time, I’ve also managed to convince myself that teleporting into an AoE doesn’t count as “entering” it, so that’s fun.
Teleport is not a "movement type", but it does move the target : they start at A and arrive at B. They have moved.
More Evidence: Opportunity Attacks trigger when you move out of the opponents reach. You can avoid triggering them if you teleport. (Note this doesn't say because Teleport isn't movement, but rather because teleport is a specific means of moving out of reach that lets you avoid OA).
Can a creature under the effect of compelled duel teleport more than 30 feet away from the caster? No. You can’t move farther than 30 feet away from the caster of compelled duel by any means, including teleportation
Note that Booming Blade doesn't require the use of a reaction, or opportunity attack or anything, in order to trigger the extra damage. Only that the target willingly moves more than 5'. They don't have to be within a certain range of the caster. It's just magical punishment that happens under certain conditions.
When booming blade refers to moving, it means movement in the game's normal sense: moving X feet.
>>>> @JeremyECrawford In SCAG, under Booming Blade, does movement refer only to overland movement, or any movement (like an attack, waving, etc.)
It's fairly clear that this doesn't say anything about teleport, but rather about other physical movements that don't change your location. As such it's not really evidence for one side of the argument or the other.
So it comes down to "move willingly" and this is the clutch. Does "move" mean
Take "Your Move" on your turn to travel physically through space using some of "your movement" OR
Change your location from point A to point B
To me, it looks like the latter is the correct definition.
This is a poll to go along with the discussion thread posted by BeyondMisty. Please refrain from spreading the debate here, but feel free to post a short comment, if you would like.
Clarification: I am referring to intentional teleportation from effects such as Misty Step.
I don't think it's a very helpful poll question, because people will be answering yes/no/other for a whole host of complex reasons, because this question is actually 5 (or more) questions at once. The end result will not be as useful as a more specific poll on one of the sub-questions, nor a more neutrally worded question like "While affected by BB, will you take the secondary damage if you first teleport away from your current location before walking".
My answer is other because RAW - probably yes, RAI - confirmed no, and in my games - no you will not take secondary damage from BB if your first change of location on your turn is via teleportation.
Sub-questions: Is teleportation moving? Yes.
Is teleportation "Movement"? Yes sometimes, but not often when the rules are trying to trigger something off of Movement.
Is teleportation willing movement? Yes, if you or an ally cast it and you did not have to make a save against it then it is willing in my view.
Is teleporting "moving 5ft or more"? No, not really. 5ft from what? To move 5ft you need to have a frame of reference and teleportation somewhat breaks those. Teleporting 30ft away from an object could be described as "moving 30ft away from that object" but not easily described as "moving 30ft".
If you teleport without triggering BB, does the effect follow you to be triggered if you walk after that? RAW, probably yes - but this is where I put my DM foot down and declare that teleporting out of things is the quintessential escape mechanism of this world.
It boils down to how the spell knows if it is willing, actually.
If it is actually some sort of mind-reading or broken-compulsion trigger... then, "willingly moves" is a colloquial phrase and not a game term phrase. Because it is speaking to the intent of the target, what they want to do. In colloquial language, "wanting to move, and then teleporting to fulfill that desire" makes perfect sense. So it'd trigger when they act on the desire to not be where they are.
But, if it isn't a mind-reading or broken-compulsion based effect, and is instead just mechanical language for the purpose of spell balance or whatever, then for sure a No, doesn't trigger. Because teleportation, in game terms, doesn't explicitly use the words "move" or "moving" when discussing its spell effect. It says "appear" and, "appearing" isn't a movement. So, you might be willing, but you're not moving. Moreover, even if it was moving... it is the spell doing it. So, you might be willing, but you're not moving. You're being moved.
Ultimately, i don't think the spell is intended to read your heart of hearts so much as it is some bizarre field around you that doesn't trigger if someone else does the doing for odd and unexplained reasons... so personally rule it No, teleporting doesn't trigger Booming Blade. But that's not a strong ruling... the mind-reading thunder spell version sounds sorta funny.
Read the accepted answer here. It also references one of the designers. This question has already been covered in Sage Advice it seems, or at least via Twitter.
I'd say it can be up to the DM perhaps. But my stance is a firm "No", it does not trigger booming blade 2nd damage effect. I see the spell as the target being wrapped in a bubble of energy that will explode if the target moves too much, where the teleport doesn't really cause the character to physically move its body much, it only causes displacement.
But really, it could be argued either way, it comes down to which physics and magic laws are at play with the Booming Blade spell. I'd say just decide on a firm rule at your table and go with that going forward if it's a scenario that comes up.
But really, it could be argued either way, it comes down to which physics and magic laws are at play with the Booming Blade spell. I'd say just decide on a firm rule at your table and go with that going forward if it's a scenario that comes up.
I voted Other. At this point if it came up at my table, my ruling would probably depend on how the PC has flavored the spell, because so far I've seen credible arguments to suggest RAW is both Yes and No, and RAI is both Yes and No
Maybe this one should be labeled RAS (Rules As Schrodingered)
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Askatu, hyperfocused vedalken freedom fighter in Wildspace (Zealot barb/Swashbuckler rogue/Battle Master fighter) Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I can't reasonably vote 'no' even if it doesn't seem intentional. Otherwise, for example, you could avoid damage by walking away using any number of features that don't use your speed (Restless Avenger is one that comes to mind).
Obviously teleportation moves you (RAW, teleportation is referred to as moving you several times), so then the only reason to say 'no' would be that this somehow requires you to use your speed. This would open the door to you walking away as long as it isn't using your speed.
I can't reasonably vote 'no' even if it doesn't seem intentional. Otherwise, for example, you could avoid damage by walking away using any number of features that don't use your speed (Restless Avenger is one that comes to mind).
Obviously teleportation moves you (RAW, teleportation is referred to as moving you several times), so then the only reason to say 'no' would be that this somehow requires you to use your speed. This would open the door to you walking away as long as it isn't using your speed.
I would say Restless Avenger does move using the creature’s speed:
Relentless Avenger
By 7th level, your supernatural focus helps you close off a foe’s retreat. When you hit a creature with an opportunity attack, you can move up to half your speed immediately after the attack and as part of the same reaction. This movement doesn’t provoke opportunity attacks.
This is a poll to go along with the discussion thread posted by BeyondMisty.
Please refrain from spreading the debate here, but feel free to post a short comment, if you would like.Clarification: I am referring to intentional teleportation from effects such as Misty Step.
Relevant spell text for Booming Blade:
Direct Quotations from Published Rules and the SAC are welcome. Please limit yourself to one post, and add any new information to that same post.Please do not respond directly to other posters, unless it is warranted. (e.g., updating old information with an errata, or addressing me directly.)With 47+ votes registered after ~24 hours, the floor is now open for free discussion.
I voted "yes" for the same reason I would vote "yes" if you asked me if teleportation triggered the movement check of Glyph of Warding:
Some additional rules quotes others may find helpful:
The SAC has this to say, which is the only item I could find in it discussing teleportation and movement:
Text from compelled duel:
My argument:
There is a two-part test to trigger booming blade's secondary damage. Part 1: You must willingly move. Part 2: You must end up 5' or more away from where you started.
My position:
"Not all those who wander are lost"
FWIW, JC said this:
Active characters:
Askatu, hyperfocused vedalken freedom fighter in Wildspace (Zealot barb/Swashbuckler rogue/Battle Master fighter)
Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Adding text from Opportunity Attacks into the mix:
I initially voted "No", but the phrasing of this is explicitly addressing teleportation as part of a subset of movement categories. That suggests to me that the Game Designers consider "common language" for "movement" to include teleportation. Therefore, I'm changing my vote to "Yes".
Edit: RAW, "Yes", but I would probably ignore that in my own games.
For my "yes":
Assuming that you weren't forcibly teleported by an outside caster or effect, your teleportation is "willing", and it "moves" you around the battlefield. Check and check.
Rather than diving into verb tenses, I think it's helpful to take a step back and ask "what is Booming Blade about?" in a general sense. BB punishes an enemy for moving away, it's a melee attack that wants your enemy to have a reason to stay in melee. It doesn't impose a save, doesn't deliver this through a condition that can be restorationed, its just "if hit with BB, stay in melee another round or take extra damage."
If you teleport away, that's the situation BB is designed to trigger on. If you walk away, that's the situation BB is designed to trigger on. If you vaporize the soil beneath you so that you can freefall away, that's the situation BB is designed to trigger on. If you're riding a horse, and encourage it or allow it to carry you away, that's the situation BB is designed to trigger on. About the only thing it DOESN'T trigger on is being moved away unwillingly (e.g., where you didn't exercise some choice to at least allow it to happen), such as being pushed or dragged or magically compelled.
Moving vs Moved vs Moves, that's not what this interaction is about. "Willingly" and "Not in the square any longer," that's BB's two check boxes.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I basically second this. I don’t see teleportation as meeting the definition of “willing” movement by default, any more than I would say standing on a ship in motion would constitute “willing” movement
I'm leaning toward yes, but it is a very murky interaction.
Teleportation definitely change positions, so you moved. But you were never moving, there is never a present tense move.
Glyph breaks if it past tense moved, but BB seems to trigger during the move.
I don't know. This is the only interaction like this that I know of so just ask your DM, it won't come up much.
I’m actually going to say no. Teleportation is interesting in that it’s literally impossible to distinguish between the teleporter moving and the rest of the world moving around them while they stay still. When you actually use your movement, it’s easy for me to intuitively accept that the coordinate system is anchored to the environment; but with teleportation, I find myself unable to accept that so easily, perhaps because it doesn’t involve interacting with the environment?
At the same time, I’ve also managed to convince myself that teleporting into an AoE doesn’t count as “entering” it, so that’s fun.
I'm leaning yes.
And here's why:
Can a creature under the effect of compelled duel teleport more than 30 feet away from the caster?
No. You can’t move farther than 30 feet away from the caster of compelled duel by any means, including teleportation
With regard to the JC quote posted earlier
If we take the quote in context:
from https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/659436991956799488?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
It's fairly clear that this doesn't say anything about teleport, but rather about other physical movements that don't change your location. As such it's not really evidence for one side of the argument or the other.
So it comes down to "move willingly" and this is the clutch.
Does "move" mean
OR
To me, it looks like the latter is the correct definition.
No, misty step uses your bonus action, not your movement.
But just a step to the left, or but a jump to the right….
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I don't think it's a very helpful poll question, because people will be answering yes/no/other for a whole host of complex reasons, because this question is actually 5 (or more) questions at once. The end result will not be as useful as a more specific poll on one of the sub-questions, nor a more neutrally worded question like "While affected by BB, will you take the secondary damage if you first teleport away from your current location before walking".
My answer is other because RAW - probably yes, RAI - confirmed no, and in my games - no you will not take secondary damage from BB if your first change of location on your turn is via teleportation.
Sub-questions: Is teleportation moving? Yes.
Is teleportation "Movement"? Yes sometimes, but not often when the rules are trying to trigger something off of Movement.
Is teleportation willing movement? Yes, if you or an ally cast it and you did not have to make a save against it then it is willing in my view.
Is teleporting "moving 5ft or more"? No, not really. 5ft from what? To move 5ft you need to have a frame of reference and teleportation somewhat breaks those. Teleporting 30ft away from an object could be described as "moving 30ft away from that object" but not easily described as "moving 30ft".
If you teleport without triggering BB, does the effect follow you to be triggered if you walk after that? RAW, probably yes - but this is where I put my DM foot down and declare that teleporting out of things is the quintessential escape mechanism of this world.
I'm split 50/50 on this question. *gasp*
It boils down to how the spell knows if it is willing, actually.
If it is actually some sort of mind-reading or broken-compulsion trigger... then, "willingly moves" is a colloquial phrase and not a game term phrase. Because it is speaking to the intent of the target, what they want to do. In colloquial language, "wanting to move, and then teleporting to fulfill that desire" makes perfect sense. So it'd trigger when they act on the desire to not be where they are.
But, if it isn't a mind-reading or broken-compulsion based effect, and is instead just mechanical language for the purpose of spell balance or whatever, then for sure a No, doesn't trigger. Because teleportation, in game terms, doesn't explicitly use the words "move" or "moving" when discussing its spell effect. It says "appear" and, "appearing" isn't a movement. So, you might be willing, but you're not moving. Moreover, even if it was moving... it is the spell doing it. So, you might be willing, but you're not moving. You're being moved.
Ultimately, i don't think the spell is intended to read your heart of hearts so much as it is some bizarre field around you that doesn't trigger if someone else does the doing for odd and unexplained reasons... so personally rule it No, teleporting doesn't trigger Booming Blade. But that's not a strong ruling... the mind-reading thunder spell version sounds sorta funny.
I got quotes!
https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/122943/does-teleportation-trigger-the-secondary-damage-of-the-booming-blade-cantrip
Read the accepted answer here. It also references one of the designers. This question has already been covered in Sage Advice it seems, or at least via Twitter.
I'd say it can be up to the DM perhaps. But my stance is a firm "No", it does not trigger booming blade 2nd damage effect. I see the spell as the target being wrapped in a bubble of energy that will explode if the target moves too much, where the teleport doesn't really cause the character to physically move its body much, it only causes displacement.
But really, it could be argued either way, it comes down to which physics and magic laws are at play with the Booming Blade spell. I'd say just decide on a firm rule at your table and go with that going forward if it's a scenario that comes up.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
I voted Other. At this point if it came up at my table, my ruling would probably depend on how the PC has flavored the spell, because so far I've seen credible arguments to suggest RAW is both Yes and No, and RAI is both Yes and No
Maybe this one should be labeled RAS (Rules As Schrodingered)
Active characters:
Askatu, hyperfocused vedalken freedom fighter in Wildspace (Zealot barb/Swashbuckler rogue/Battle Master fighter)
Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I can't reasonably vote 'no' even if it doesn't seem intentional. Otherwise, for example, you could avoid damage by walking away using any number of features that don't use your speed (Restless Avenger is one that comes to mind).
Obviously teleportation moves you (RAW, teleportation is referred to as moving you several times), so then the only reason to say 'no' would be that this somehow requires you to use your speed. This would open the door to you walking away as long as it isn't using your speed.
Actually, I think you just drew a really good distinction between moving and being moved.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I went with No. No maximum verbos explanation but all I could think about when answering the question was Nightcrawler and I like Nightcrawler.
I would say Restless Avenger does move using the creature’s speed:
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I vote yes. Unless the teleportation is done unwillingly, it should be subject to Booming Blade's effect.