But I think it's overreaching to say you don't "move" when you teleport. Moving in the game seems like it's complicated, but it really isn't. You start at position A and you end at position B. You have moved between those positions, and the distance between them is measurable. Therefore you've moved X feet.
So if you walk 10 ft and through an arcane gate that connects to a point 300 ft away, and then another 10 ft of walking. Did you move 20 ft, or 320 ft?
You started at A and ended at B. You have moved between those positions. The distance is measurable. Therefore you moved X feet.
What is X? If you measure from A to B through the gate, then it is 20ft. This is the path the character took. But if you measure A to B through normal space then it is 320 ft. This is not the path the character took.
Same applies with other teleports. If you measure the distance through the path the character took, then they didn't move at all. if you measure the path through normal space, they moved however far they teleported.
So, yeah. For determining how far they moved... are you measuring the path they took, or, the straight line through normal space between the points they started/finished at?
They moved (common english definition used in the game) 320 feet. They used 20 feet of their speed for the turn (game definition of "movement"). If one end of the portal was in an AoE they would have entered (common english definition used in the game) the AoE when they stepped through the portal.
Likewise, if you walked 10 feet, misty stepped 30 feet, then walked 10 feet, you would have moved 50 feet (common english), used 20 feet of their speed (game term "movement"), and if the space they appeared in was in an area of effect, they would have entered (common english) the AoE when they appeared in the area
But I think it's overreaching to say you don't "move" when you teleport. Moving in the game seems like it's complicated, but it really isn't. You start at position A and you end at position B. You have moved between those positions, and the distance between them is measurable. Therefore you've moved X feet.
So if you walk 10 ft and through an arcane gate that connects to a point 300 ft away, and then another 10 ft of walking. Did you move 20 ft, or 320 ft?
You started at A and ended at B. You have moved between those positions. The distance is measurable. Therefore you moved X feet.
What is X? If you measure from A to B through the gate, then it is 20ft. This is the path the character took. But if you measure A to B through normal space then it is 320 ft. This is not the path the character took.
Same applies with other teleports. If you measure the distance through the path the character took, then they didn't move at all. if you measure the path through normal space, they moved however far they teleported.
So, yeah. For determining how far they moved... are you measuring the path they took, or, the straight line through normal space between the points they started/finished at?
You've used 20 feet of your Speed (aka your movement speed/your walk speed) to move 320 feet away from your starting position. You've moved 320 feet. Just as if you used 0 feet of your Speed and cast Misty Step and ended up 30 feet away, you've moved 30 feet. Note that you don't move through all the intervening spaces, so "moving through" triggers only count for the spaces you physically occupy.
As far as I can tell, this interpretation is the simplest to understand, and has the least number of unintended side-effects. Specific exceptions are made clear in places where they need to be (for example: Opportunity attack rules say "when you move outside the threatened area." and then give specific examples of how to do that thing (move outside the area) without provoking : Disengage and Teleport). Similarly, when an effect is related to "your speed", it says so. When it says "your movement" it usually means "the speed you expend during your turn", but sometimes it means "your speed" so.. YMMV on that one.
Anyway, I'm open to seeing a counter-example where the rules clearly use "moving X feet" in a way that cannot mean "changing location by X feet or more", and must mean "spending X feet of movement speed".
(Edit - seems like someone ninja'd me a couple of minutes earlier. ;)
I have a little trouble sometimes, so perhaps someone can explain to me how this works. There's probably a special exemption somewhere that I don't know about. It says in the text for Booming Blade "If the target willingly moves 5 feet or more before then, the target takes 1d8 thunder damage." Is it possible to use Misty step unwillingly? A charm spell could make you move, but it's doing so by making you willing. I don't know if even a Dominate spell could do it, because even if you remove all ability to resist, then all that would happen is when you puppet the character around you have to be the one who is doing the willing for them.
I suppose it could be argued that since Misty Step teleports you, it happens to fast to react, but that's odd, because there are cases where you can use a Reaction to put up a defense after the thing you want to avoid has been done. Look at the Shield spell. "An invisible barrier of magical force appears and protects you. Until the start of your next turn, you have a +5 bonus to AC, including against the triggering attack, and you take no damage from magic missile." They attacked you, but somehow, before their attack landed, you added 5 to your armor class. It's also one of the ways to avoid taking damage from Magic Missile.
I have a little trouble sometimes, so perhaps someone can explain to me how this works. There's probably a special exemption somewhere that I don't know about. It says in the text for Booming Blade "If the target willingly moves 5 feet or more before then, the target takes 1d8 thunder damage." Is it possible to use Misty step unwillingly? A charm spell could make you move, but it's doing so by making you willing. I don't know if even a Dominate spell could do it, because even if you remove all ability to resist, then all that would happen is when you puppet the character around you have to be the one who is doing the willing for them.
I suppose it could be argued that since Misty Step teleports you, it happens to fast to react, but that's odd, because there are cases where you can use a Reaction to put up a defense after the thing you want to avoid has been done. Look at the Shield spell. "An invisible barrier of magical force appears and protects you. Until the start of your next turn, you have a +5 bonus to AC, including against the triggering attack, and you take no damage from magic missile." They attacked you, but somehow, before their attack landed, you added 5 to your armor class. It's also one of the ways to avoid taking damage from Magic Missile.
personally, I say you can willingly cast Misty Step, but the spell effect then occurs whether you "will" it or not (if you changed your mind the instant you finished casting, you are still teleporting whether you like it or not). You are teleported by the spell, not yourself. It doesn't matter (IMO) that you intended for the effect to do that, at the moment of teleportation, you are not actually in control of the move the teleport made.
Regular movement is different. Assuming you are moving under your own will, you can decide to stop, and the instant you decide, you can stop. If you decide to go, the instant you decide to go, you can go. The whole process is under your own control, not a spell or other effect.
I have a little trouble sometimes, so perhaps someone can explain to me how this works. There's probably a special exemption somewhere that I don't know about. It says in the text for Booming Blade "If the target willingly moves 5 feet or more before then, the target takes 1d8 thunder damage." Is it possible to use Misty step unwillingly? A charm spell could make you move, but it's doing so by making you willing. I don't know if even a Dominate spell could do it, because even if you remove all ability to resist, then all that would happen is when you puppet the character around you have to be the one who is doing the willing for them.
I suppose it could be argued that since Misty Step teleports you, it happens to fast to react, but that's odd, because there are cases where you can use a Reaction to put up a defense after the thing you want to avoid has been done. Look at the Shield spell. "An invisible barrier of magical force appears and protects you. Until the start of your next turn, you have a +5 bonus to AC, including against the triggering attack, and you take no damage from magic missile." They attacked you, but somehow, before their attack landed, you added 5 to your armor class. It's also one of the ways to avoid taking damage from Magic Missile.
personally, I say you can willingly cast Misty Step, but the spell effect then occurs whether you "will" it or not (if you changed your mind the instant you finished casting, you are still teleporting whether you like it or not). You are teleported by the spell, not yourself. It doesn't matter (IMO) that you intended for the effect to do that, at the moment of teleportation, you are not actually in control of the move the teleport made.
Regular movement is different. Assuming you are moving under your own will, you can decide to stop, and the instant you decide, you can stop. If you decide to go, the instant you decide to go, you can go. The whole process is under your own control, not a spell or other effect.
Well, there's nowhere in the rules that suggest your position at all. Casting a spell is a willing choice you've made. You willed it to come into being and take effect. There's no moment between "I cast the spell" and "The spell occurs" in which you can change your mind. If you don't want to teleport, you don't complete the spell. If you did complete the spell, then you teleport. Both situations are expressions of your willingness to attain the result of moving (or not moving). In the same way, you can't, for example, cast Fireball at a bunch of peasants and then, as the streak of bright light leaves your hand, say "Whoops, I change my mind.. so anything that happens in the next moment isn't my fault."
You formed an intent to move, then took an action to do just that (cast Misty Step), and then the move occurred. That's willing movement.
Now it does get a bit silly when vehicles or mounts are involved (and frankly, assessing intent in most of these instances is kinda dumb, because, as someone else mentioned, this is not Psychic Blade, it's Booming blade.. which somehow magically knows what everyone intended to do .. but whatever).
Some examples where this whole thing breaks down:
The Target is on a horse, and uses his actions to cause the horse to move -- Did he move, or did the horse?
You're fighting someone who is sitting on top of a stationary wagon.
He uses his action to whip the horses -- Did he move, or did the wagon move him?
What if, instead someone else moves the wagon on their own turn -- He was moved, but it wasn't using his own actions. But he was "willing", since he wanted to leave the space.
Now you're both standing on a ship, and the ship moves the entire combat 20 feet during the round. Nothing happens because the target didn't move willingly. But really, according to the "battle map" neither of you moved relative to the rest of the battle. So it doesn't matter.
Now you're both standing on the ship, but he's the captain and commands the crew to "Full sail ahead" -- didn't he willingly move himself (and the rest of the battle) ? Yes, but it's still dumb to have Booming Blade trigger, I think most of us would agree.
What if you were standing on the gunwale when you hit him with booming blade, and fell into the ocean. The captain tells the ship Full Sail Ahead, except now he's causing the ship to move away from you... Does it trigger now?
While I think there are real concerns with how we measure "move willingly" in these circumstances, I think trying to make Teleport a similar edge-case is too much of a stretch.
We may need to start a new thread for "willing," but the TLDR version is, the PHB never defines it and the most reasonable way to interpret it is "player was willing." If the player took an action to cause something to happen, or permitted something to happen, or caused another creature to do something which in turn would result in something happening to their own character, etc..... it's "willing."
Trying to arbitrate "willing" from the creature's point of view, rather than the player's, gets too nuanced. "Oh, I'm not willingly moving, I'm just letting my intentionally-uncontrolled mount carry me away in the direction that I the player have chosen for it" yaaaawn, you the player made something happen, its "willing."
Without a will, nothing moves. It requires action in order to move. It is an act of will. It is unlikely another thread debating semantics will be of any use. The problem that cannot be solved is that someone clearly believes that at all times, and in all cases, the Misty Step ability can be used to avoid taking damage from anything they're in range of. The shield spell sets a precedent that even when something has already happened, a Reaction can still be used to increase the odds of avoiding taking damage. Given so much as an angstrom of wiggle room someone will continue to argue about it.
I will probably use the rule in my game that teleportation effects give you the effect of Disengage automatically, and thus, anything that removes the ability to Disengage will work just fine. I doubt this will be accepted, but that's fine. In someone else's game, as long as everyone is having fun, there's no problem.
I have a little trouble sometimes, so perhaps someone can explain to me how this works. There's probably a special exemption somewhere that I don't know about. It says in the text for Booming Blade "If the target willingly moves 5 feet or more before then, the target takes 1d8 thunder damage." Is it possible to use Misty step unwillingly? A charm spell could make you move, but it's doing so by making you willing. I don't know if even a Dominate spell could do it, because even if you remove all ability to resist, then all that would happen is when you puppet the character around you have to be the one who is doing the willing for them.
I suppose it could be argued that since Misty Step teleports you, it happens to fast to react, but that's odd, because there are cases where you can use a Reaction to put up a defense after the thing you want to avoid has been done. Look at the Shield spell. "An invisible barrier of magical force appears and protects you. Until the start of your next turn, you have a +5 bonus to AC, including against the triggering attack, and you take no damage from magic missile." They attacked you, but somehow, before their attack landed, you added 5 to your armor class. It's also one of the ways to avoid taking damage from Magic Missile.
personally, I say you can willingly cast Misty Step, but the spell effect then occurs whether you "will" it or not (if you changed your mind the instant you finished casting, you are still teleporting whether you like it or not). You are teleported by the spell, not yourself. It doesn't matter (IMO) that you intended for the effect to do that, at the moment of teleportation, you are not actually in control of the move the teleport made.
Regular movement is different. Assuming you are moving under your own will, you can decide to stop, and the instant you decide, you can stop. If you decide to go, the instant you decide to go, you can go. The whole process is under your own control, not a spell or other effect.
Well, there's nowhere in the rules that suggest your position at all. Casting a spell is a willing choice you've made. You willed it to come into being and take effect. There's no moment between "I cast the spell" and "The spell occurs" in which you can change your mind. If you don't want to teleport, you don't complete the spell. If you did complete the spell, then you teleport. Both situations are expressions of your willingness to attain the result of moving (or not moving). In the same way, you can't, for example, cast Fireball at a bunch of peasants and then, as the streak of bright light leaves your hand, say "Whoops, I change my mind.. so anything that happens in the next moment isn't my fault."
You formed an intent to move, then took an action to do just that (cast Misty Step), and then the move occurred. That's willing movement.
Now it does get a bit silly when vehicles or mounts are involved (and frankly, assessing intent in most of these instances is kinda dumb, because, as someone else mentioned, this is not Psychic Blade, it's Booming blade.. which somehow magically knows what everyone intended to do .. but whatever).
Some examples where this whole thing breaks down:
The Target is on a horse, and uses his actions to cause the horse to move -- Did he move, or did the horse?
You're fighting someone who is sitting on top of a stationary wagon.
He uses his action to whip the horses -- Did he move, or did the wagon move him?
What if, instead someone else moves the wagon on their own turn -- He was moved, but it wasn't using his own actions. But he was "willing", since he wanted to leave the space.
Now you're both standing on a ship, and the ship moves the entire combat 20 feet during the round. Nothing happens because the target didn't move willingly. But really, according to the "battle map" neither of you moved relative to the rest of the battle. So it doesn't matter.
Now you're both standing on the ship, but he's the captain and commands the crew to "Full sail ahead" -- didn't he willingly move himself (and the rest of the battle) ? Yes, but it's still dumb to have Booming Blade trigger, I think most of us would agree.
What if you were standing on the gunwale when you hit him with booming blade, and fell into the ocean. The captain tells the ship Full Sail Ahead, except now he's causing the ship to move away from you... Does it trigger now?
While I think there are real concerns with how we measure "move willingly" in these circumstances, I think trying to make Teleport a similar edge-case is too much of a stretch.
The game doesn’t define willing, and if it did, you might have a stronger position than me, but it doesnt, so really it’s just my word against yours. Both positions can be consistently enforced, and mine (at least generally) seems to be about 4x more popular than yours. But that doesn’t matter, this has been argued absolutely to death, and we’re all just beating a dead horse if we think we are changing minds at this point
but to answer your question, to me, none of the scenarios you posed would trigger BB at my table
What's wrong with saying that moving willingly equates to moving under one's free will? Unwilling movement, would therefore be movement that is compelled. This generally takes the form of magic or some other supernatural effect in which the player cannot say, "I would rather my character not move like that, so they won't."
It's a No from me. Booming Blade triggers upon moving 5 feet. Misty Step lets the caster cover the distance yes, but the caster is moving 0 feet.
To visualise it, draw a line through all the spaces between the original space and the space the caster entered. For each border (on a grid) the caster moves across, he moves 5 feet. In the case of teleportation, the line would not cross any border as the character doesn't move into any of the spaces between the original space and the destination space. He moves into the destination space, but doesn't cross any border to do so.
Edit: The rules specify how you count ranges when using a grid:
Ranges. To determine the range on a grid between two things—whether creatures or objects—start counting squares from a square adjacent to one of them and stop counting in the space of the other one. Count by the shortest route.
Interesting argument. I'm not sure I follow it though. If I cast Misty Step, I pick a location 30 feet away. I appear at the new location. Is that location not 30 feet away from my previous location? The fact that I didn't physically pass through the intervening space doesn't mean I didn't change locations. It doesn't make the two locations are somehow adjacent to each other (Arcane Gate specifically grants that ability, but Misty Step does not).
It seems to me that this idea that "I didn't move, I teleported." is somehow related to the idea that you don't physically occupy intervening space, unlike Flying, Walking, Burrowing, Climbing, or Swimming. Because teleporting is "vanish and then appear somewhere else." And I get it -- because the ability to vanish and reappear _is_ special when it comes to Opportunity Attack: It happens so fast that the enemy cannot strike out at you. It's also proof against things like Grapple. Teleport is special. It's also not a "movement type".
But I think it's overreaching to say you don't "move" when you teleport. Moving in the game seems like it's complicated, but it really isn't. You start at position A and you end at position B. You have moved between those positions, and the distance between them is measurable. Therefore you've moved X feet. If X>5 and you moved willingly, then Booming Blade's magic kicks in. Simple. Teleport's exceptional abilities are called out in the specific places where it makes a difference (the rules on Opportunity Attacks, for example). Reading more power into Teleportation is unwarranted.
I don't know why you believe that I think teleportation is not movement. I do believe teleportation is movement. I am simply saying there is a difference between "moving" and "Range covered". Range is a term defined by RAW as seen below (again):
Ranges. To determine the range on a grid between two things—whether creatures or objects—start counting squares from a square adjacent to one of them and stop counting in the space of the other one. Count by the shortest route.
So when a wizard uses Misty Step he changes location and enters a point 30 feet away. There are 3 important things to consider here:
1) He covered a Range of 30 feet.
2) He changed location which means he moved.
3) How many feet did he move? To find out how many feet he moved, we draw a line through all the spaces between the original space and the destination space the caster entered. For each border (on a grid) he moves through, he moves 5 feet. In the case at hand (teleportation) the line would not cross any border as he doesn't move into any of the spaces between the original space and the destination space. He moves into the destination space, but doesn't cross any border to do so. He did not cross any intervening space doing so, so he moved 0 feet.
What makes these concepts difficult to tell apart is the fact that "move" is used in so many different context throughout the rules, and can mean so many different things going by the common English understanding of the word.
Ravnodaus So, yeah. For determining how far they moved... are you measuring the path they took, or, the straight line through normal space between the points they started/finished at?
Personally I measure the path they took when determining how far they moved, and the straight line from origin space to destination space when determining the Range they covered.
I have a little trouble sometimes, so perhaps someone can explain to me how this works. There's probably a special exemption somewhere that I don't know about. It says in the text for Booming Blade "If the target willingly moves 5 feet or more before then, the target takes 1d8 thunder damage." Is it possible to use Misty step unwillingly? A charm spell could make you move, but it's doing so by making you willing. I don't know if even a Dominate spell could do it, because even if you remove all ability to resist, then all that would happen is when you puppet the character around you have to be the one who is doing the willing for them.
I suppose it could be argued that since Misty Step teleports you, it happens to fast to react, but that's odd, because there are cases where you can use a Reaction to put up a defense after the thing you want to avoid has been done. Look at the Shield spell. "An invisible barrier of magical force appears and protects you. Until the start of your next turn, you have a +5 bonus to AC, including against the triggering attack, and you take no damage from magic missile." They attacked you, but somehow, before their attack landed, you added 5 to your armor class. It's also one of the ways to avoid taking damage from Magic Missile.
Some people believe that teleportation is unwilling even if you cast it yourself (they argue that the effect moves you, not you yourself), and others (me included) argue that because you as player and character have full agency over what you are doing when casting a teleportation spell such as Misty Step, it is willing movement. The latter is also the opinion D&D's lead rules designer. However, as others have stated, RAW is silent on the matter.
Some people believe that teleportation is unwilling even if you cast it yourself (they argue that the effect moves you, not you yourself), and others (me included) argue that because you as player and character have full agency over what you are doing when casting a teleportation spell such as Misty Step, it is willing movement.
Can you resist Misty Step? Does it say it requires a willing target?
Since Misty Step doesn't say it requires a willing target nor does it allow a save, then, it is forced. That lead designer says: "If a spell forces you to move, as dissonant whispers does, you're not moving of your own volition."
Some people believe that teleportation is unwilling even if you cast it yourself (they argue that the effect moves you, not you yourself), and others (me included) argue that because you as player and character have full agency over what you are doing when casting a teleportation spell such as Misty Step, it is willing movement. The latter is also the opinion D&D's lead rules designer. However, as others have stated, RAW is silent on the matter.
I mean, on a meta level, the character has no agency at all because the player is making all the decisions, so no movement is truly "willing"...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Askatu, hyperfocused vedalken freedom fighter in Wildspace (Zealot barb/Swashbuckler rogue/Battle Master fighter) Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Rav, the sort of spell that "forces you to move," like Dissonant Whispers (or Infestation, or Command, Fear, etc.) is very very very obviously not what Misty Step is. This is not even you applying pedantic legalistic interpretation of rule text (which can be fine), but now applying that sort of interpretation to Twitter, which just... no, that is in no way a reasonable reading of that tweet, even if you do think those tweets have some sort of rule significance.
Some people believe that teleportation is unwilling even if you cast it yourself (they argue that the effect moves you, not you yourself), and others (me included) argue that because you as player and character have full agency over what you are doing when casting a teleportation spell such as Misty Step, it is willing movement.
Can you resist Misty Step? Does it say it requires a willing target?
Since Misty Step doesn't say it requires a willing target nor does it allow a save, then, it is forced. That lead designer says: "If a spell forces you to move, as dissonant whispers does, you're not moving of your own volition."
You cannot be an unwilling target for a spell targeting "self". That's nonsensical. There are no other valid targets other than yourself, and by definition casting the spell means you are intending to cast the spell, and from that, you intend the result of the spell to take effect, and so you must be willing. You can't be an unwilling beneficiary of your own magic.
I suspect that anyone engaging in the kind of sophistry I see in the above post isn't interested in discussing the rules either AW, or AI, but only in convoluted arguments on the internet.
I shall carry a torch, a vial of acid, and avoid bridges, around you, sir. :)
Some people believe that teleportation is unwilling even if you cast it yourself (they argue that the effect moves you, not you yourself), and others (me included) argue that because you as player and character have full agency over what you are doing when casting a teleportation spell such as Misty Step, it is willing movement.
Can you resist Misty Step? Does it say it requires a willing target?
Since Misty Step doesn't say it requires a willing target nor does it allow a save, then, it is forced. That lead designer says: "If a spell forces you to move, as dissonant whispers does, you're not moving of your own volition."
You cannot be an unwilling target for a spell targeting "self". That's nonsensical.
The existence of Dominate Person makes it less non-sensical.
The spell makes the target do what they're told to the best of their ability, but do they suddenly want to slowly plunge a rusty knife into their own throat, or are they merely compelled to do so? It can certainly force you to Misty Step your way off a cliff.
Agree, an unwilling movement or unwilling spell that the target MUST take is not willing. That isn’t to say that a typical casting of Misty Step is unwilling/forced movement/what have you.
I don't find the arguments that teleportation magic isn't willing at all convincing. But what I have been convinced of is that, if we take as read that movement does occur when teleporting (I'm not convinced of that either, but it's not important), when you cast misty step, you are not moving; rather, you are being moved. If you call out to your ally "Yo, push me away!" and they come push you away, movement is occurring, and you're obviously willing, but you're not moving yourself, you're being moved by your buddy. Likewise, when you cast misty step, you're not moving yourself, you're being moved by the spell.
In either case, there is willing movement, but in neither case are you willingly moving. You are being willingly moved. The active/passive distinction is one I feel is relevant, and it's one I would take into account when ruling.
That said, I don't think it's an unambiguous slam dunk; verbs of movement are very grammatically flexible and can be used mediopassively or unaccusatively, for example. I don't believe this is what the designers meant when they wrote "if the target willingly moves," but it's a grammatically valid interpretation.
I don’t agree with that at all. When your body is moving, you are moving. But even were that not the case, “moves” in BB encompasses both moving and being moved.
I don’t agree with that at all. When your body is moving, you are moving. But even were that not the case, “moves” in BB encompasses both moving and being moved.
That’s exactly what my last paragraph is about.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
They moved (common english definition used in the game) 320 feet. They used 20 feet of their speed for the turn (game definition of "movement"). If one end of the portal was in an AoE they would have entered (common english definition used in the game) the AoE when they stepped through the portal.
Likewise, if you walked 10 feet, misty stepped 30 feet, then walked 10 feet, you would have moved 50 feet (common english), used 20 feet of their speed (game term "movement"), and if the space they appeared in was in an area of effect, they would have entered (common english) the AoE when they appeared in the area
You've used 20 feet of your Speed (aka your movement speed/your walk speed) to move 320 feet away from your starting position. You've moved 320 feet. Just as if you used 0 feet of your Speed and cast Misty Step and ended up 30 feet away, you've moved 30 feet. Note that you don't move through all the intervening spaces, so "moving through" triggers only count for the spaces you physically occupy.
As far as I can tell, this interpretation is the simplest to understand, and has the least number of unintended side-effects. Specific exceptions are made clear in places where they need to be (for example: Opportunity attack rules say "when you move outside the threatened area." and then give specific examples of how to do that thing (move outside the area) without provoking : Disengage and Teleport). Similarly, when an effect is related to "your speed", it says so. When it says "your movement" it usually means "the speed you expend during your turn", but sometimes it means "your speed" so.. YMMV on that one.
Anyway, I'm open to seeing a counter-example where the rules clearly use "moving X feet" in a way that cannot mean "changing location by X feet or more", and must mean "spending X feet of movement speed".
(Edit - seems like someone ninja'd me a couple of minutes earlier. ;)
I have a little trouble sometimes, so perhaps someone can explain to me how this works. There's probably a special exemption somewhere that I don't know about. It says in the text for Booming Blade "If the target willingly moves 5 feet or more before then, the target takes 1d8 thunder damage." Is it possible to use Misty step unwillingly? A charm spell could make you move, but it's doing so by making you willing. I don't know if even a Dominate spell could do it, because even if you remove all ability to resist, then all that would happen is when you puppet the character around you have to be the one who is doing the willing for them.
I suppose it could be argued that since Misty Step teleports you, it happens to fast to react, but that's odd, because there are cases where you can use a Reaction to put up a defense after the thing you want to avoid has been done. Look at the Shield spell. "An invisible barrier of magical force appears and protects you. Until the start of your next turn, you have a +5 bonus to AC, including against the triggering attack, and you take no damage from magic missile." They attacked you, but somehow, before their attack landed, you added 5 to your armor class. It's also one of the ways to avoid taking damage from Magic Missile.
<Insert clever signature here>
personally, I say you can willingly cast Misty Step, but the spell effect then occurs whether you "will" it or not (if you changed your mind the instant you finished casting, you are still teleporting whether you like it or not). You are teleported by the spell, not yourself. It doesn't matter (IMO) that you intended for the effect to do that, at the moment of teleportation, you are not actually in control of the move the teleport made.
Regular movement is different. Assuming you are moving under your own will, you can decide to stop, and the instant you decide, you can stop. If you decide to go, the instant you decide to go, you can go. The whole process is under your own control, not a spell or other effect.
Well, there's nowhere in the rules that suggest your position at all.
Casting a spell is a willing choice you've made. You willed it to come into being and take effect. There's no moment between "I cast the spell" and "The spell occurs" in which you can change your mind. If you don't want to teleport, you don't complete the spell. If you did complete the spell, then you teleport. Both situations are expressions of your willingness to attain the result of moving (or not moving).
In the same way, you can't, for example, cast Fireball at a bunch of peasants and then, as the streak of bright light leaves your hand, say "Whoops, I change my mind.. so anything that happens in the next moment isn't my fault."
You formed an intent to move, then took an action to do just that (cast Misty Step), and then the move occurred. That's willing movement.
Now it does get a bit silly when vehicles or mounts are involved (and frankly, assessing intent in most of these instances is kinda dumb, because, as someone else mentioned, this is not Psychic Blade, it's Booming blade.. which somehow magically knows what everyone intended to do .. but whatever).
Some examples where this whole thing breaks down:
While I think there are real concerns with how we measure "move willingly" in these circumstances, I think trying to make Teleport a similar edge-case is too much of a stretch.
We may need to start a new thread for "willing," but the TLDR version is, the PHB never defines it and the most reasonable way to interpret it is "player was willing." If the player took an action to cause something to happen, or permitted something to happen, or caused another creature to do something which in turn would result in something happening to their own character, etc..... it's "willing."
Trying to arbitrate "willing" from the creature's point of view, rather than the player's, gets too nuanced. "Oh, I'm not willingly moving, I'm just letting my intentionally-uncontrolled mount carry me away in the direction that I the player have chosen for it" yaaaawn, you the player made something happen, its "willing."
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Without a will, nothing moves. It requires action in order to move. It is an act of will. It is unlikely another thread debating semantics will be of any use. The problem that cannot be solved is that someone clearly believes that at all times, and in all cases, the Misty Step ability can be used to avoid taking damage from anything they're in range of. The shield spell sets a precedent that even when something has already happened, a Reaction can still be used to increase the odds of avoiding taking damage. Given so much as an angstrom of wiggle room someone will continue to argue about it.
I will probably use the rule in my game that teleportation effects give you the effect of Disengage automatically, and thus, anything that removes the ability to Disengage will work just fine. I doubt this will be accepted, but that's fine. In someone else's game, as long as everyone is having fun, there's no problem.
<Insert clever signature here>
The game doesn’t define willing, and if it did, you might have a stronger position than me, but it doesnt, so really it’s just my word against yours. Both positions can be consistently enforced, and mine (at least generally) seems to be about 4x more popular than yours. But that doesn’t matter, this has been argued absolutely to death, and we’re all just beating a dead horse if we think we are changing minds at this point
but to answer your question, to me, none of the scenarios you posed would trigger BB at my table
What's wrong with saying that moving willingly equates to moving under one's free will? Unwilling movement, would therefore be movement that is compelled. This generally takes the form of magic or some other supernatural effect in which the player cannot say, "I would rather my character not move like that, so they won't."
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I don't know why you believe that I think teleportation is not movement. I do believe teleportation is movement. I am simply saying there is a difference between "moving" and "Range covered". Range is a term defined by RAW as seen below (again):
So when a wizard uses Misty Step he changes location and enters a point 30 feet away. There are 3 important things to consider here:
1) He covered a Range of 30 feet.
2) He changed location which means he moved.
3) How many feet did he move?
To find out how many feet he moved, we draw a line through all the spaces between the original space and the destination space the caster entered. For each border (on a grid) he moves through, he moves 5 feet. In the case at hand (teleportation) the line would not cross any border as he doesn't move into any of the spaces between the original space and the destination space. He moves into the destination space, but doesn't cross any border to do so.
He did not cross any intervening space doing so, so he moved 0 feet.
What makes these concepts difficult to tell apart is the fact that "move" is used in so many different context throughout the rules, and can mean so many different things going by the common English understanding of the word.
Personally I measure the path they took when determining how far they moved, and the straight line from origin space to destination space when determining the Range they covered.
Some people believe that teleportation is unwilling even if you cast it yourself (they argue that the effect moves you, not you yourself), and others (me included) argue that because you as player and character have full agency over what you are doing when casting a teleportation spell such as Misty Step, it is willing movement. The latter is also the opinion D&D's lead rules designer. However, as others have stated, RAW is silent on the matter.
Can you resist Misty Step? Does it say it requires a willing target?
Since Misty Step doesn't say it requires a willing target nor does it allow a save, then, it is forced. That lead designer says: "If a spell forces you to move, as dissonant whispers does, you're not moving of your own volition."
I got quotes!
I mean, on a meta level, the character has no agency at all because the player is making all the decisions, so no movement is truly "willing"...
Active characters:
Askatu, hyperfocused vedalken freedom fighter in Wildspace (Zealot barb/Swashbuckler rogue/Battle Master fighter)
Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Rav, the sort of spell that "forces you to move," like Dissonant Whispers (or Infestation, or Command, Fear, etc.) is very very very obviously not what Misty Step is. This is not even you applying pedantic legalistic interpretation of rule text (which can be fine), but now applying that sort of interpretation to Twitter, which just... no, that is in no way a reasonable reading of that tweet, even if you do think those tweets have some sort of rule significance.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
You cannot be an unwilling target for a spell targeting "self". That's nonsensical. There are no other valid targets other than yourself, and by definition casting the spell means you are intending to cast the spell, and from that, you intend the result of the spell to take effect, and so you must be willing. You can't be an unwilling beneficiary of your own magic.
I suspect that anyone engaging in the kind of sophistry I see in the above post isn't interested in discussing the rules either AW, or AI, but only in convoluted arguments on the internet.
I shall carry a torch, a vial of acid, and avoid bridges, around you, sir.
:)
The existence of Dominate Person makes it less non-sensical.
The spell makes the target do what they're told to the best of their ability, but do they suddenly want to slowly plunge a rusty knife into their own throat, or are they merely compelled to do so? It can certainly force you to Misty Step your way off a cliff.
Agree, an unwilling movement or unwilling spell that the target MUST take is not willing. That isn’t to say that a typical casting of Misty Step is unwilling/forced movement/what have you.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I don't find the arguments that teleportation magic isn't willing at all convincing. But what I have been convinced of is that, if we take as read that movement does occur when teleporting (I'm not convinced of that either, but it's not important), when you cast misty step, you are not moving; rather, you are being moved. If you call out to your ally "Yo, push me away!" and they come push you away, movement is occurring, and you're obviously willing, but you're not moving yourself, you're being moved by your buddy. Likewise, when you cast misty step, you're not moving yourself, you're being moved by the spell.
In either case, there is willing movement, but in neither case are you willingly moving. You are being willingly moved. The active/passive distinction is one I feel is relevant, and it's one I would take into account when ruling.
That said, I don't think it's an unambiguous slam dunk; verbs of movement are very grammatically flexible and can be used mediopassively or unaccusatively, for example. I don't believe this is what the designers meant when they wrote "if the target willingly moves," but it's a grammatically valid interpretation.
I don’t agree with that at all. When your body is moving, you are moving. But even were that not the case, “moves” in BB encompasses both moving and being moved.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
That’s exactly what my last paragraph is about.