I think I’d actually allow this a means of escape from creatures that can swallow you, but in general I agree with Plaguescarred that such a spade doesn’t in any way count as unoccupied.
But if it is big enough to swallow you and you are willing to let someone use this combo to escape. Wouldnt it also be possible to teleport inside such a creature in that case?
But if it is big enough to swallow you and you are willing to let someone use this combo to escape. Wouldnt it also be possible to teleport inside such a creature in that case?
I’d say no. You can only teleport to an unoccupied space. So leaving a creature to go to an unoccupied space is ok. But trying to go in, well, that space is occupied.
But if it is big enough to swallow you and you are willing to let someone use this combo to escape. Wouldnt it also be possible to teleport inside such a creature in that case?
The only even possibly beneficial use of such a technique would be to help someone who's already been swallowed escape, which I think would probably be good and interesting gameplay, so I'd maybe allow it, but as a point of RAW (this is the rules and game mechanics forum, after all), I do agree with the others that the space would be occupied for purposes of the spell.
But if it is big enough to swallow you and you are willing to let someone use this combo to escape. Wouldnt it also be possible to teleport inside such a creature in that case?
The only even possibly beneficial use of such a technique would be to help someone who's already been swallowed escape, which I think would probably be good and interesting gameplay, so I'd maybe allow it, but as a point of RAW (this is the rules and game mechanics forum, after all), I do agree with the others that the space would be occupied for purposes of the spell.
If a PC were in the stomach of a great creature, holding his breath, then you would seem to have a race. Is the PC going to run out of breath and drown? Is the PC going to be digested by the great creature? Is the PC going to be able to slash the great creature from within, fast enough to kill it and escape? Would we be able to assume the great creature is automatically critted by any slashing or piercing weapon each round? Is there anything the great creature can do about it?
But for me personally, the space is occupied so you can't teleport there.
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
for instance a creature of the same size as a blue whale would have a heart equal to the size of a blue whales which is big enough to fit a person.
If i could locate the heart through x-Ray vision, i should be able to teleport inside of it. And if i am of a race that does not require to breathe i should be able to survive there unless the blood is acid. Being inside of the heart i could stab it from the inside, thus causing a heart attack. 🤷🏻♂️
i know what you are going to say; the insides of a creature is occupied by the creature just like the space the creature is in according to the rules. If I was a DM and someone would pull such an idea to the table, i’d let him/her go with it just because of the fun of it.
but nevermind, i probably placed this thread in the wrong forum.
It's worth noting that there's very little in an animals body which is both empty and hollow - the lungs are probably the only thing. The stomach will not be inflated like a balloon when it's empty, it will be flat and empty - not really ful lof space. To get into the stomach, you'd have to move the walls of the stomach out of the way first. That's why creatures who gorge themselves end up with hugely distended stomachs - the stomach isn't sitting around being all big & empty before they eat!
As a Dm I would allow it for getting out of a creature, but not for getting into one. If you tried to do it anyway, after being told that it doesn't work like that, both you and the creature in question will be turned into a screeching blob of mangled limbs as your bodies fuse together, like something from the Thing, and if no-one has a wish spell handy, then it's time to roll a new character.
You could ask the same thing with an invisible creature, or if you convince a creature to eat something which you are scrying, but it's all kinda geared towards not teleporting into another creature.
Now, if you were to find a way to make a place available - such as having the creature swallow a bag of holding, which you have a magical way to see inside of, thus allowing you to misty-step into the bag and climb out into the stomach, then yeah, that's enough workaround to make it work (the space inside a bag isn't occupied).
As for the heart, what happens to the blood in the space already? You'd have to time it perfectly to the heart beating, and then the blood would be pushed out of the way. With magic, there's no clarification on whether you move things out of your way, or vice versa - but it being specified that you teleport to an empty space, probably the later - shunting you outside of the body of the creature.
Another thing is not because a creature can swallow you that you can teleport into it. Engulf or Swallow are special abilities letting the creature take a target inside it as you normally cannot enter and occupy the space of an enemy creature, inside and out. The interior of a creature idoesn't necessarily become an unoccupied space that you can enter and occupy because the creature can speciffically use an action to Engulf or Swallow you whole.
This isn't a thing the rules specifically provide for. That being said, it can be a pretty cool story moment. I believe one of the big dragon fights in Critical Role's first campaign had one or two PCs teleporting into the stomach of a dragon and then activating an immovable rod before popping out
Technically, it's an occupied space, but don't let that stop you from doing something awesome at the table.
for instance a creature of the same size as a blue whale would have a heart equal to the size of a blue whales which is big enough to fit a person.
If i could locate the heart through x-Ray vision, i should be able to teleport inside of it. And if i am of a race that does not require to breathe i should be able to survive there unless the blood is acid. Being inside of the heart i could stab it from the inside, thus causing a heart attack. 🤷🏻♂️
i know what you are going to say; the insides of a creature is occupied by the creature just like the space the creature is in according to the rules. If I was a DM and someone would pull such an idea to the table, i’d let him/her go with it just because of the fun of it.
but nevermind, i probably placed this thread in the wrong forum.
The answer isn't no because we're sticking to the rules regardless of fun. Besides being against the rules, the result you want is ultimately not fun aside from the first time you do it. If you can one-shot most creatures with a level 2 spell, why would you do anything else?
Now there's one solution to every fight. The rest of the party stands around and watches Explodo the X-ray Goblin burst out of an enemy's chest each round. Awesome in session 1, funny in session 2, but by session 5 everyone but Explodo has stopped showing up.
And what if the enemy starts doing this to you? Now combat is just an initiative contest and the first time Explodo loses, he's a pile of goblin pieces.
Rules aren't just there to harsh your buzz. They prevent zany antics like this from totally derailing the game and invalidating everyone else's choices. This is a cool scene, but once you open the door on a tactic that is markedly more powerful than regular combat, the party will feel obligated to use it as often as possible. Even if it's boring, it's also very low risk and humans love to minimize risk.
The RAW answer is NO. You can't teleport inside another creature because the creature's space is occupied and the spell specifically prevents that usage.
Teleporting out isn't a problem since the spells only require the destination to be unoccupied.
Teleporting IN, in a specific game, will always be a DM call. They can choose to allow it if they like. However, teleporting IN would likely require that there be sufficient unoccupied space INSIDE the other creature to justify a space for the character to use as a place to teleport. For example, there may be creatures whose digestive tract is so large that there could be space that could be occupied (Star Wars and the Millenium Falcon for example). However, many digestive tracts are quite small and contract around the contents to mix them up and soak them with acid. When empty there might not be ANY space inside a digestive tract, even that for a very large creature.
Most rules in 5e for swallowed creatures have them blinded and restrained. This is consistent with the idea that even for a very large creature, the digestive tract conforms to the food that is present there. There is no room to swing a weapon. Any attacks are at disadvantage since even if the character gets a weapon out they may have much greater trouble using it effectively while restrained by the digestive system.
Finally, since you need to teleport into unoccupied space - if the space was unoccupied - it would not cause any damage to either creature. So no option to "telefrag" anything.
In addition, if a character did come up with a way to allow them to teleport inside another creature, I would have both of them go up in a blinding flash of light just for the effect :) ... or I might have both just killed as the atoms of one were interlocked with the atoms of the other. Lots of ways to resolve it but it wouldn't go well for either creature involved.
I guess you are right in a way. If one of my players would try this for any reason i’d allom it at first for the fun of it. But next time he/she would try it i would have made a special chart to roll what the result would end up in using this tech. Keeping in mind the things you brought up in this thread, but i wouldnt dismiss the idea completely as i appreciate the freedom to do whatever.
so it should have a high risk and a small chance of success so it wouldnt become something that could be abused.
As many others have pointed out RAW using Misty Step to enter an internal cavity of another creature is very clearly not allowed.
However if you wanted to allow it there is Etherealness too look to for what happens when one creature suddenly appears inside another.
If that isn't quite what your looking for then you can look to other spells of the same level or lower. They might give you an idea of how you could resolve this in a way that lets a player do it without breaking the game.
Thank you all for replying you pointed out some flaws of the idea and even correct ruling of it, so i now know what to do if someone will try this or other similar crazy things.
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To use ring of x-ray vision and misty step to teleport inside someone as you are able to see the inside of other creatures.
Depending on the creatures size, but wouldnt that be counted as a telefrag?
misty step says you can teleport to an unoccupied space, well the ribcage of someone is certainly not occupied, right?
and if the creature is big enough, pen could teleport inside of it and live there, iit is a problem if you do require air to survive though.
The space a creature occupies is occupied by every part of it, including it's interior so it should not be a valid space to teleport to.
I think I’d actually allow this a means of escape from creatures that can swallow you, but in general I agree with Plaguescarred that such a spade doesn’t in any way count as unoccupied.
But if it is big enough to swallow you and you are willing to let someone use this combo to escape. Wouldnt it also be possible to teleport inside such a creature in that case?
I’d say no. You can only teleport to an unoccupied space. So leaving a creature to go to an unoccupied space is ok. But trying to go in, well, that space is occupied.
The only even possibly beneficial use of such a technique would be to help someone who's already been swallowed escape, which I think would probably be good and interesting gameplay, so I'd maybe allow it, but as a point of RAW (this is the rules and game mechanics forum, after all), I do agree with the others that the space would be occupied for purposes of the spell.
If a PC were in the stomach of a great creature, holding his breath, then you would seem to have a race. Is the PC going to run out of breath and drown? Is the PC going to be digested by the great creature? Is the PC going to be able to slash the great creature from within, fast enough to kill it and escape? Would we be able to assume the great creature is automatically critted by any slashing or piercing weapon each round? Is there anything the great creature can do about it?
But for me personally, the space is occupied so you can't teleport there.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
I understand what you are saying, i just dont agree with you.
I think of the rules as a guideline, they can be bent if the scenario requires it. 🤷🏻♂️
The DM can bent any rules of course! If the session require such thing to happen, he can certainly allow it!
It all comes down to the creatures size.
for instance a creature of the same size as a blue whale would have a heart equal to the size of a blue whales which is big enough to fit a person.
If i could locate the heart through x-Ray vision, i should be able to teleport inside of it.
And if i am of a race that does not require to breathe i should be able to survive there unless the blood is acid.
Being inside of the heart i could stab it from the inside, thus causing a heart attack. 🤷🏻♂️
i know what you are going to say; the insides of a creature is occupied by the creature just like the space the creature is in according to the rules.
If I was a DM and someone would pull such an idea to the table, i’d let him/her go with it just because of the fun of it.
but nevermind, i probably placed this thread in the wrong forum.
It's worth noting that there's very little in an animals body which is both empty and hollow - the lungs are probably the only thing. The stomach will not be inflated like a balloon when it's empty, it will be flat and empty - not really ful lof space. To get into the stomach, you'd have to move the walls of the stomach out of the way first. That's why creatures who gorge themselves end up with hugely distended stomachs - the stomach isn't sitting around being all big & empty before they eat!
As a Dm I would allow it for getting out of a creature, but not for getting into one. If you tried to do it anyway, after being told that it doesn't work like that, both you and the creature in question will be turned into a screeching blob of mangled limbs as your bodies fuse together, like something from the Thing, and if no-one has a wish spell handy, then it's time to roll a new character.
You could ask the same thing with an invisible creature, or if you convince a creature to eat something which you are scrying, but it's all kinda geared towards not teleporting into another creature.
Now, if you were to find a way to make a place available - such as having the creature swallow a bag of holding, which you have a magical way to see inside of, thus allowing you to misty-step into the bag and climb out into the stomach, then yeah, that's enough workaround to make it work (the space inside a bag isn't occupied).
As for the heart, what happens to the blood in the space already? You'd have to time it perfectly to the heart beating, and then the blood would be pushed out of the way. With magic, there's no clarification on whether you move things out of your way, or vice versa - but it being specified that you teleport to an empty space, probably the later - shunting you outside of the body of the creature.
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Another thing is not because a creature can swallow you that you can teleport into it. Engulf or Swallow are special abilities letting the creature take a target inside it as you normally cannot enter and occupy the space of an enemy creature, inside and out. The interior of a creature idoesn't necessarily become an unoccupied space that you can enter and occupy because the creature can speciffically use an action to Engulf or Swallow you whole.
This isn't a thing the rules specifically provide for. That being said, it can be a pretty cool story moment. I believe one of the big dragon fights in Critical Role's first campaign had one or two PCs teleporting into the stomach of a dragon and then activating an immovable rod before popping out
Technically, it's an occupied space, but don't let that stop you from doing something awesome at the table.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
The answer isn't no because we're sticking to the rules regardless of fun. Besides being against the rules, the result you want is ultimately not fun aside from the first time you do it. If you can one-shot most creatures with a level 2 spell, why would you do anything else?
Now there's one solution to every fight. The rest of the party stands around and watches Explodo the X-ray Goblin burst out of an enemy's chest each round. Awesome in session 1, funny in session 2, but by session 5 everyone but Explodo has stopped showing up.
And what if the enemy starts doing this to you? Now combat is just an initiative contest and the first time Explodo loses, he's a pile of goblin pieces.
Rules aren't just there to harsh your buzz. They prevent zany antics like this from totally derailing the game and invalidating everyone else's choices. This is a cool scene, but once you open the door on a tactic that is markedly more powerful than regular combat, the party will feel obligated to use it as often as possible. Even if it's boring, it's also very low risk and humans love to minimize risk.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
The RAW answer is NO. You can't teleport inside another creature because the creature's space is occupied and the spell specifically prevents that usage.
Teleporting out isn't a problem since the spells only require the destination to be unoccupied.
Teleporting IN, in a specific game, will always be a DM call. They can choose to allow it if they like. However, teleporting IN would likely require that there be sufficient unoccupied space INSIDE the other creature to justify a space for the character to use as a place to teleport. For example, there may be creatures whose digestive tract is so large that there could be space that could be occupied (Star Wars and the Millenium Falcon for example). However, many digestive tracts are quite small and contract around the contents to mix them up and soak them with acid. When empty there might not be ANY space inside a digestive tract, even that for a very large creature.
Most rules in 5e for swallowed creatures have them blinded and restrained. This is consistent with the idea that even for a very large creature, the digestive tract conforms to the food that is present there. There is no room to swing a weapon. Any attacks are at disadvantage since even if the character gets a weapon out they may have much greater trouble using it effectively while restrained by the digestive system.
Finally, since you need to teleport into unoccupied space - if the space was unoccupied - it would not cause any damage to either creature. So no option to "telefrag" anything.
In addition, if a character did come up with a way to allow them to teleport inside another creature, I would have both of them go up in a blinding flash of light just for the effect :) ... or I might have both just killed as the atoms of one were interlocked with the atoms of the other. Lots of ways to resolve it but it wouldn't go well for either creature involved.
I guess you are right in a way.
If one of my players would try this for any reason i’d allom it at first for the fun of it. But next time he/she would try it i would have made a special chart to roll what the result would end up in using this tech.
Keeping in mind the things you brought up in this thread, but i wouldnt dismiss the idea completely as i appreciate the freedom to do whatever.
so it should have a high risk and a small chance of success so it wouldnt become something that could be abused.
You know what i mean?
Um yes, the ribcage is occupied, by the lungs, heart, blood vessels, muscle, bone, adipose, and so on.This is munchkinism of the worst kind.
As many others have pointed out RAW using Misty Step to enter an internal cavity of another creature is very clearly not allowed.
However if you wanted to allow it there is Etherealness too look to for what happens when one creature suddenly appears inside another.
If that isn't quite what your looking for then you can look to other spells of the same level or lower. They might give you an idea of how you could resolve this in a way that lets a player do it without breaking the game.
Thank you all for replying
you pointed out some flaws of the idea and even correct ruling of it, so i now know what to do if someone will try this or other similar crazy things.