I was making test with the d&d beyond character dice and I notice that the ability Disciple of Life of the cleric is not working with the spell aid and revivify.
"Also starting at 1st level, your healing spells are more effective. Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell's level."
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Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law.
Aid adds to the creatures' max HP (and increases current HP by the same amount) instead of restoring HP, so Disciple of Life doesn't apply here.
For Revivify, I'm not sure why it wouldn't include the extra HP gain, since that is restoring HP.
Huh? Are you saying that the spell must use the words restore hitpoints? Under that reading then cure wounds doesn't count either. It says regain instead of restore.
Revivify is odd, in that it specifically states that the target returns to life with 1 hit point - it doesn't use any language around restoring hit points or healing.
Aid adds to the creatures' max HP (and increases current HP by the same amount) instead of restoring HP, so Disciple of Life doesn't apply here.
For Revivify, I'm not sure why it wouldn't include the extra HP gain, since that is restoring HP.
Huh? Are you saying that the spell must use the words restore hitpoints? Under that reading then cure wounds doesn't count either. It says regain instead of restore.
Hi, welcome to 5e where the rules are written in "common language" so synonyms are the same word in RAW.
Something else I noticed: Disciple of life should also work with life transference, but the healing isn't stated separately from the damage, so there is no place to put the modifier (the damage is not increased only the healing).
That’s exactly my point. Anytime that you gain hitpoints when you’re not at maximum, you are regaining them, and they’re being restored to you. Thanks for getting it.
That’s exactly my point. Anytime that you gain hitpoints when you’re not at maximum, you are regaining them, and they’re being restored to you. Thanks for getting it.
Not necessarily. And definitely a completely different point (since "regain" and "restore" actually mean the same thing in this context and "with" and "increase" do not).
It is like the difference between an AC calculation and bonus AC. Both (may) result in higher AC, but an AC calculation is not an AC "increase".
So you are saying that common sense goes out the window when you’ve lost hit points, and you get some back, because that isn’t restoring or regaining them?
Ok, I guess I did need that facetious introduction to 5e that you so grandly offered earlier.
So you are saying that common sense goes out the window when you’ve lost hit points, and you get some back, because that isn’t regaining them?
Ok, I guess I did need that facetious primer on 5e that you so grandly offered earlier.
Aid doesn't give you any hit points back. It gives you brand new ones. You'll notice the increase to current hit points is also only for the duration. The damage you've taken is preserved. I'm not sure your hostility is warranted.
So you are saying that common sense goes out the window when you’ve lost hit points, and you get some back, because that isn’t restoring or regaining them?
Ok, I guess I did need that facetious introduction to 5e that you so grandly offered earlier.
I don't know what to tell you. Effects that do the same thing with only slightly different but synonymous verbage are the same thing, effects that do something different and have non-synonymous verbage are not the same thing.
Having your current HP change to a higher number does not automatically mean you they were "restored". You can certainly argue it with your DM, but it is not clear in the RAW.
And the facetious introduction to 5e was honestly directed AT 5e, because I hate that these kinds of "what does this word mean in the rules?" arguments even happen.
Aid adds to the creatures' max HP (and increases current HP by the same amount) instead of restoring HP, so Disciple of Life doesn't apply here.
For Revivify, I'm not sure why it wouldn't include the extra HP gain, since that is restoring HP.
Huh? Are you saying that the spell must use the words restore hitpoints? Under that reading then cure wounds doesn't count either. It says regain instead of restore.
Aid uses neither regain nor restore, but increase.
So you are saying that common sense goes out the window when you’ve lost hit points, and you get some back, because that isn’t restoring or regaining them?
Ok, I guess I did need that facetious introduction to 5e that you so grandly offered earlier.
I don't know what to tell you. Effects that do the same thing with only slightly different but synonymous verbage are the same thing, effects that do something different and have non-synonymous verbage are not the same thing.
Having your current HP change to a higher number does not automatically mean you they were "restored". You can certainly argue it with your DM, but it is not clear in the RAW.
And the facetious introduction to 5e was honestly directed AT 5e, because I hate that these kinds of "what does this word mean in the rules?" arguments even happen.
But I would say Having your current HP change from a number that is less than you started the day with to a number closer to that value is restoring them in common language; an increase below max is restoring. If I go from 5/13 to 10/13HP, then some of those 13 HP have been restored. If giving hit points that you used to have back is restoring them, then I'd rule Aid can count when you're below max (which, by the way, is the only time Disciple of Life would work).
The other argument is that there is a technical definition here, that rather than being fulfilled with only a single word ("restores" is used in Disciple of Life, which somewhat ironically is unused by almost all "healing" spells except goodberry) is fulfilled by exactly two words. I'd rather rule that something that I'd refer to as restoring hit points works, even if it doesn't use a single particular word (that doesn't actually happen to be "restores").
So you are saying that common sense goes out the window when you’ve lost hit points, and you get some back, because that isn’t restoring or regaining them?
Ok, I guess I did need that facetious introduction to 5e that you so grandly offered earlier.
I don't know what to tell you. Effects that do the same thing with only slightly different but synonymous verbage are the same thing, effects that do something different and have non-synonymous verbage are not the same thing.
Having your current HP change to a higher number does not automatically mean you they were "restored". You can certainly argue it with your DM, but it is not clear in the RAW.
And the facetious introduction to 5e was honestly directed AT 5e, because I hate that these kinds of "what does this word mean in the rules?" arguments even happen.
But I would say Having your current HP change from a number that is less than you started the day with to a number closer to that value is restoring them in common language; an increase below max is restoring. If I go from 5/13 to 10/13HP, then some of those 13 HP have been restored. If giving hit points that you used to have back is restoring them, then I'd rule Aid can count when you're below max (which, by the way, is the only time Disciple of Life would work).
That's just it though. Aid doesn't make your current HP any closer to your max because your max increases by the same amount for the duration.
If you're at 5/13 HP and someone casts Aid on you your HP becomes 10/18.
You are still 8 HP away from your max.
At the end of the duration if you haven't received any other healing your HP goes back to 5/13.
I agree with unclever. Aid only increases your current hitpoints for the duration of the spell. When the spell ends you lose them, quite possibly making you fall unconcious, though I admit many tables do not apply it that way.
I would 8nterpret restore as regaining that which was lost for a period beyond the length of the spell. It is debatable whether going from 10HP with a max of 14 to 15HP with a max of 19 (let the dm decider) but 5he fact that you lose them again when the spell ends makes it hard to define a restoring hit points, it is more a case of receiving "temporary" hit points (though this is not the same as receiving what is called "temporary hit points"
What you're actually saying is that no matter what healing or damage you receive during the spell, at the end of the duration of aid, you lose 5 actual hit points. I don't play that spell that way.
You are at 0 HP. Does aid heal you? or do you remain unconscious?
Generally, if the duration of aid ends when the target has less than 5 hp, do they go unconscious?
If you have 5 HP, then are affected by aid (10HP total), then take 9 damage (1HP), and then are healed by 3 (4HP), when aid ends are you unconscious, even though you've received healing?
What you're actually saying is that no matter what healing or damage you receive during the spell, at the end of the duration of aid, you lose 5 actual hit points. I don't play that spell that way.
Not playing that way is fine, but it is contrary to the text of the spell.
You are at 0 HP. Does aid heal you? or do you remain unconscious?
I'm going to stay away from the word "heal." You gain 5 hit points (not regain; you've never had these hit points before). You cease to be unconscious.
If you have 5 HP, then are affected by aid (10HP total), then take 9 damage (1HP), and then are healed by 3 (4HP), when aid ends are you unconscious?
Yes. If you don't have enough hit points not granted by Aid to remain conscious when the magic of Aid ends, you become unconscious. The increase to current hit points explicitly has an expiration date.
[EDIT] For what it's worth, the behavior I've described makes perfect intuitive sense in context of the narrative of Aid. It's not healing. It's a temporary bolster to your ability to fight. Falling unconscious once that goes away because you're at the end of your rope 100% plays into that narrative.
Wolf's quote does not say regaining hit points is the only way to end the unconcious condition, the rules technically do not send whether or not you cease to be unconcious if your hit points 8ncrease above zero from a means other than regaining them but I think it is inferred that you do.
Aid says that the targets hit point maximum and current hit points increase for the duration of the spell, which means when the spell ends they both decrease.
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Excuse me, but I had a question.
I was making test with the d&d beyond character dice and I notice that the ability Disciple of Life of the cleric is not working with the spell aid and revivify.
"Also starting at 1st level, your healing spells are more effective. Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell's level."
Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law.
- Emmanuel Kant
Aid adds to the creatures' max HP (and increases current HP by the same amount) instead of restoring HP, so Disciple of Life doesn't apply here.
For Revivify, I'm not sure why it wouldn't include the extra HP gain, since that is restoring HP.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
thanks
Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law.
- Emmanuel Kant
Huh? Are you saying that the spell must use the words restore hitpoints? Under that reading then cure wounds doesn't count either. It says regain instead of restore.
Revivify is odd, in that it specifically states that the target returns to life with 1 hit point - it doesn't use any language around restoring hit points or healing.
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Hi, welcome to 5e where the rules are written in "common language" so synonyms are the same word in RAW.
Something else I noticed: Disciple of life should also work with life transference, but the healing isn't stated separately from the damage, so there is no place to put the modifier (the damage is not increased only the healing).
That’s exactly my point. Anytime that you gain hitpoints when you’re not at maximum, you are regaining them, and they’re being restored to you. Thanks for getting it.
Not necessarily. And definitely a completely different point (since "regain" and "restore" actually mean the same thing in this context and "with" and "increase" do not).
It is like the difference between an AC calculation and bonus AC. Both (may) result in higher AC, but an AC calculation is not an AC "increase".
So you are saying that common sense goes out the window when you’ve lost hit points, and you get some back, because that isn’t restoring or regaining them?
Ok, I guess I did need that facetious introduction to 5e that you so grandly offered earlier.
Aid doesn't give you any hit points back. It gives you brand new ones. You'll notice the increase to current hit points is also only for the duration. The damage you've taken is preserved. I'm not sure your hostility is warranted.
I don't know what to tell you. Effects that do the same thing with only slightly different but synonymous verbage are the same thing, effects that do something different and have non-synonymous verbage are not the same thing.
Having your current HP change to a higher number does not automatically mean you they were "restored". You can certainly argue it with your DM, but it is not clear in the RAW.
And the facetious introduction to 5e was honestly directed AT 5e, because I hate that these kinds of "what does this word mean in the rules?" arguments even happen.
Aid uses neither regain nor restore, but increase.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
But I would say Having your current HP change from a number that is less than you started the day with to a number closer to that value is restoring them in common language; an increase below max is restoring. If I go from 5/13 to 10/13HP, then some of those 13 HP have been restored. If giving hit points that you used to have back is restoring them, then I'd rule Aid can count when you're below max (which, by the way, is the only time Disciple of Life would work).
The other argument is that there is a technical definition here, that rather than being fulfilled with only a single word ("restores" is used in Disciple of Life, which somewhat ironically is unused by almost all "healing" spells except goodberry) is fulfilled by exactly two words. I'd rather rule that something that I'd refer to as restoring hit points works, even if it doesn't use a single particular word (that doesn't actually happen to be "restores").
And, well, you are correct that the rules certainly seem to use "restore" and "regain" interchangeably, but they certainly also do not limit healing to spells that use those two words.
That's just it though. Aid doesn't make your current HP any closer to your max because your max increases by the same amount for the duration.
If you're at 5/13 HP and someone casts Aid on you your HP becomes 10/18.
You are still 8 HP away from your max.
At the end of the duration if you haven't received any other healing your HP goes back to 5/13.
I agree with unclever. Aid only increases your current hitpoints for the duration of the spell. When the spell ends you lose them, quite possibly making you fall unconcious, though I admit many tables do not apply it that way.
I would 8nterpret restore as regaining that which was lost for a period beyond the length of the spell. It is debatable whether going from 10HP with a max of 14 to 15HP with a max of 19 (let the dm decider) but 5he fact that you lose them again when the spell ends makes it hard to define a restoring hit points, it is more a case of receiving "temporary" hit points (though this is not the same as receiving what is called "temporary hit points"
What you're actually saying is that no matter what healing or damage you receive during the spell, at the end of the duration of aid, you lose 5 actual hit points. I don't play that spell that way.
You are at 0 HP. Does aid heal you? or do you remain unconscious?
Generally, if the duration of aid ends when the target has less than 5 hp, do they go unconscious?
If you have 5 HP, then are affected by aid (10HP total), then take 9 damage (1HP), and then are healed by 3 (4HP), when aid ends are you unconscious, even though you've received healing?
Not playing that way is fine, but it is contrary to the text of the spell.
I'm going to stay away from the word "heal." You gain 5 hit points (not regain; you've never had these hit points before). You cease to be unconscious.
Yes. If you don't have enough hit points not granted by Aid to remain conscious when the magic of Aid ends, you become unconscious. The increase to current hit points explicitly has an expiration date.
[EDIT] For what it's worth, the behavior I've described makes perfect intuitive sense in context of the narrative of Aid. It's not healing. It's a temporary bolster to your ability to fight. Falling unconscious once that goes away because you're at the end of your rope 100% plays into that narrative.
Falling unconscious from being at zero hit points ends when you 'regain' hit points.
A restoration of hit points only counts permanent healing (Cure Wounds, Revivify, Goodberry), not temporary increases in current/max.
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Wolf's quote does not say regaining hit points is the only way to end the unconcious condition, the rules technically do not send whether or not you cease to be unconcious if your hit points 8ncrease above zero from a means other than regaining them but I think it is inferred that you do.
Aid says that the targets hit point maximum and current hit points increase for the duration of the spell, which means when the spell ends they both decrease.