So you're a werewolf, and you've finally got a PC cornered. You close in and bite. The PC takes the damage, but then fails his con save and gains the curse of lycanthropy. This curse renders the PC immune to B/P/S from nonmagical attacks that aren't silvered. If you have the default werewolf stats, that's all of your attacks. So not only can you not damage the PC, the PC may still be able to damage you with cantrips. And you can't just do two claw attacks instead because the hybrid multiattack is only one bite one claw, the wolf can only use one bite, and the humanoid multiattack requires you to reveal your ruse, limiting its utility. How are werewolves expected to fight PCs?
The rules don't really tell how fast a target getting cursed with lycanthropy gain its the characteristics. Personally, i never had an infected character immediately get them, instead usually waiting for the next full moon before the first apparition of traits and actions.
The rules don't really tell how fast a target getting cursed with lycanthropy gain its the characteristics. Personally, i never had an infected character immediately get them, instead usually waiting for the next full moon before the first apparition of traits and actions.
A character who becomes a lycanthrope retains his or her statistics except as specified by lycanthrope type. The character gains the lycanthrope’s speeds in nonhumanoid form, damage immunities, traits, and actions that don’t involve equipment. The character is proficient with the lycanthrope’s natural attacks, such as its bite or claws, which deal damage as shown in the lycanthrope’s statistics. The character can’t speak while in animal form.
So, the change is made when you become a lycanthrope.
Bite (Wolf or Hybrid Form Only).If the target is a humanoid, it must succeed on a DC 12 Constitution saving throw or be cursed with werewolf lycanthropy.
Presumably being cursed with lycanthropy makes you a lycanthrope. I don't know how else you would define it. RAW, it looks like the changes take effect as soon as you fail the save, though I'd certainly rule it otherwise.
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Yeah RAW presumably without delay as it doesn't tell otherwise, but the idea of having instant knowledge and mastery of every abilities have never sit well with me, especially since it doesn't really reflect how lycanthropy is displayed in books and movies.
I remember one of my first campaigns I was in dealt with werewolves. We were a party of three and the DM had a DMPC fighter travel with us. During the encounter, we had a bit of a bottleneck as the werewolves engaged us in a doorway. The fighter DMPC was bitten and turned into a werewolf immediately. Because the werewolves had no magical weapons, they were unable to injure us as the fighter was in the doorway. So the cleric, my warlock, and the wizard fired past the fighter at the werewolves until they were dead. Then after the cleric removed the curse from the DMPC.
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Honestly lycanthropy on players is just broken if you interpret it to mean the player is instantly immune to non silver/magic PSB. I’d be tempted to rule they only apply to the hybrid and animal forms to balance it out a bit.
Honestly lycanthropy on players is just broken if you interpret it to mean the player is instantly immune to non silver/magic PSB. I’d be tempted to rule they only apply to the hybrid and animal forms to balance it out a bit.
I agree. I don't know why my DM at the time made that choice but sandwiching the infected fighter between us and the werewolves made it shooting fish in a barrel. They could literally do nothing but howl at us as we picked them off one by one.
Interestingly, nearing the end of that campaign, I had rolled a blood hunter lycan and our cleric joked that he could cure it as he had done so months earlier with the fighter. Confident that my lycan form was different, I was about to let him try but the DM intervened and said that in his game, it would work. I declined through my PC, stating that I would want to remain cursed so I could better fight the werewolves running rampant across the region.
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So you're a werewolf, and you've finally got a PC cornered. You close in and bite. The PC takes the damage, but then fails his con save and gains the curse of lycanthropy. This curse renders the PC immune to B/P/S from nonmagical attacks that aren't silvered. If you have the default werewolf stats, that's all of your attacks. So not only can you not damage the PC, the PC may still be able to damage you with cantrips. And you can't just do two claw attacks instead because the hybrid multiattack is only one bite one claw, the wolf can only use one bite, and the humanoid multiattack requires you to reveal your ruse, limiting its utility. How are werewolves expected to fight PCs?
Werewolves would kill PCs the same way they would kill each other.
Werewolves are not friendly creatures, they fight amongst themselves and they likely kill each other. Werewolves know their weaknesses and strengths. Werewolves have infected other creatures and know what happens when they do. Werewolves would KNOW if a creature that contracts lycanthropy would suddenly become immune to BPS attacks.
RAW, a werewolf only has the attacks listed. They don't seem to have any special attacks for use against other lycanthropes. Given that, one could conclude that contracting lycanthropy does not immediately grant the effects of being a lycanthrope.
Indirectly, the monster manual also says "Over time, however, many lycanthropes acquire features suggestive of their animal form." This implies that the change into a lycanthrope is not necessarily instantaneous - that the creature might develop over time until it reaches a final form. The text also suggests that afflicted creatures can choose to fight or accept the curse and that the curse may proceed in different ways depending on the character decision.
The bottom line is that the rules don't say how quickly the side effects of lycanthropy occur but the text in the MM has enough references to changes over time that a DM could decide such effects are not instantaneous.
In addition, lycanthropes would know whether the effects occur immediately and if they do, they would likely carry a weapon or other way of actually killing lycanthropes both to deal with those they may infect in a fight as well as other lycanthropes with which they might associate. In this case, I think most werewolves would carry something like a dagger with a silvered blade in a special sheath that keeps the silver from coming in touch with the lycanthrope. If they find it necessary to kill another lycanthrope, they pull out their grace blade.
I remember one of my first campaigns I was in dealt with werewolves. We were a party of three and the DM had a DMPC fighter travel with us. During the encounter, we had a bit of a bottleneck as the werewolves engaged us in a doorway. The fighter DMPC was bitten and turned into a werewolf immediately. Because the werewolves had no magical weapons, they were unable to injure us as the fighter was in the doorway. So the cleric, my warlock, and the wizard fired past the fighter at the werewolves until they were dead. Then after the cleric removed the curse from the DMPC.
Yes, this is precisely the issue I was talking about. I misread the stat block and decided it would be cool to make one of my NPCs a werewolf who had all his teeth removed so his bite couldn't infect anyone. Then I found out while running him in a fight that the multiattack requires the bite, so I needed to give him some battle dentures that couldn't infect anyone. That's what pointed me to this dilemma. If I had just left his teeth alone, he would have been a joke.
Your fighter was able to doorway dodge by doing absolutely nothing. In order for the werewolf to get the most damage off, the werewolf has to risk automatically losing in a very anticlimactic way. Yes, the DM can give a werewolf special equipment so the werewolf functions as intended, but that's the issue. The DM has to give the werewolf special equipment or some other weird exception for it to function as intended. The devs should probably have just given this monster vulnerability to silver attacks instead of outright damage immunity to nonsilver attacks. Alternatively, they could put a delay on the benefits of the curse as other comments here have suggested.
So RAW is odd and silly. Personally I run where a creature can always hurt itself or its kin. Only with there natural attacks though. So a werewolf say picked up a normal sword they couldn't hurt another werewolf BUT with its bite or claw it could. Basically a creature should always be able to hurt itself or kill its kind if needed other wise gods forbid you some how ended up with two Tarrasque in the world just leave the world cause they would just fight forever and not be able to hurt each other. ( I know terrible example but it was the most extreme end I could go to)
"One of the most ancient and feared of all curses, lycanthropy can transform the most civilized humanoid into a ravening beast. In its natural humanoid form, a creature cursed by lycanthropy appears as its normal self. Over time, however, many lycanthropes acquire features suggestive of their animal form."
To me, this suggests that maybe it takes time before a cursed person becomes a lycanthrope. But even if it doesn't mean that: Just don't bite. Use the claws or spear. If that's not enough damage for the encounter, add more werewolves -- they're pack animals after all.
Other lycanthrope types are described as intentionally not using their bite attacks against humanoids because they don't want to spread the curse for ethical reasons. These ones could easily do the same for practical reasons.
And anyway, a wolf isn't going after humans as a first choice to eat. Idk why a werewolf would.
The rules don't really tell how fast a target getting cursed with lycanthropy gain its the characteristics. Personally, i never had an infected character immediately get them, instead usually waiting for the next full moon before the first apparition of traits and actions.
Delaying those benefits make the most since. Gotta have an incubation period. Makes for an excellent surprise to
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So you're a werewolf, and you've finally got a PC cornered. You close in and bite. The PC takes the damage, but then fails his con save and gains the curse of lycanthropy. This curse renders the PC immune to B/P/S from nonmagical attacks that aren't silvered. If you have the default werewolf stats, that's all of your attacks. So not only can you not damage the PC, the PC may still be able to damage you with cantrips. And you can't just do two claw attacks instead because the hybrid multiattack is only one bite one claw, the wolf can only use one bite, and the humanoid multiattack requires you to reveal your ruse, limiting its utility. How are werewolves expected to fight PCs?
The rules don't really tell how fast a target getting cursed with lycanthropy gain its the characteristics. Personally, i never had an infected character immediately get them, instead usually waiting for the next full moon before the first apparition of traits and actions.
So, the change is made when you become a lycanthrope.
Presumably being cursed with lycanthropy makes you a lycanthrope. I don't know how else you would define it. RAW, it looks like the changes take effect as soon as you fail the save, though I'd certainly rule it otherwise.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Yeah RAW presumably without delay as it doesn't tell otherwise, but the idea of having instant knowledge and mastery of every abilities have never sit well with me, especially since it doesn't really reflect how lycanthropy is displayed in books and movies.
I remember one of my first campaigns I was in dealt with werewolves. We were a party of three and the DM had a DMPC fighter travel with us. During the encounter, we had a bit of a bottleneck as the werewolves engaged us in a doorway. The fighter DMPC was bitten and turned into a werewolf immediately. Because the werewolves had no magical weapons, they were unable to injure us as the fighter was in the doorway. So the cleric, my warlock, and the wizard fired past the fighter at the werewolves until they were dead. Then after the cleric removed the curse from the DMPC.
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Honestly lycanthropy on players is just broken if you interpret it to mean the player is instantly immune to non silver/magic PSB. I’d be tempted to rule they only apply to the hybrid and animal forms to balance it out a bit.
I agree. I don't know why my DM at the time made that choice but sandwiching the infected fighter between us and the werewolves made it shooting fish in a barrel. They could literally do nothing but howl at us as we picked them off one by one.
Interestingly, nearing the end of that campaign, I had rolled a blood hunter lycan and our cleric joked that he could cure it as he had done so months earlier with the fighter. Confident that my lycan form was different, I was about to let him try but the DM intervened and said that in his game, it would work. I declined through my PC, stating that I would want to remain cursed so I could better fight the werewolves running rampant across the region.
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I would rule that the lycanthropy doesn’t take effect until after the next long rest like in the movies.
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Werewolves would kill PCs the same way they would kill each other.
Werewolves are not friendly creatures, they fight amongst themselves and they likely kill each other. Werewolves know their weaknesses and strengths. Werewolves have infected other creatures and know what happens when they do. Werewolves would KNOW if a creature that contracts lycanthropy would suddenly become immune to BPS attacks.
RAW, a werewolf only has the attacks listed. They don't seem to have any special attacks for use against other lycanthropes. Given that, one could conclude that contracting lycanthropy does not immediately grant the effects of being a lycanthrope.
Indirectly, the monster manual also says "Over time, however, many lycanthropes acquire features suggestive of their animal form." This implies that the change into a lycanthrope is not necessarily instantaneous - that the creature might develop over time until it reaches a final form. The text also suggests that afflicted creatures can choose to fight or accept the curse and that the curse may proceed in different ways depending on the character decision.
The bottom line is that the rules don't say how quickly the side effects of lycanthropy occur but the text in the MM has enough references to changes over time that a DM could decide such effects are not instantaneous.
In addition, lycanthropes would know whether the effects occur immediately and if they do, they would likely carry a weapon or other way of actually killing lycanthropes both to deal with those they may infect in a fight as well as other lycanthropes with which they might associate. In this case, I think most werewolves would carry something like a dagger with a silvered blade in a special sheath that keeps the silver from coming in touch with the lycanthrope. If they find it necessary to kill another lycanthrope, they pull out their grace blade.
Yes, this is precisely the issue I was talking about. I misread the stat block and decided it would be cool to make one of my NPCs a werewolf who had all his teeth removed so his bite couldn't infect anyone. Then I found out while running him in a fight that the multiattack requires the bite, so I needed to give him some battle dentures that couldn't infect anyone. That's what pointed me to this dilemma. If I had just left his teeth alone, he would have been a joke.
Your fighter was able to doorway dodge by doing absolutely nothing. In order for the werewolf to get the most damage off, the werewolf has to risk automatically losing in a very anticlimactic way. Yes, the DM can give a werewolf special equipment so the werewolf functions as intended, but that's the issue. The DM has to give the werewolf special equipment or some other weird exception for it to function as intended. The devs should probably have just given this monster vulnerability to silver attacks instead of outright damage immunity to nonsilver attacks. Alternatively, they could put a delay on the benefits of the curse as other comments here have suggested.
So RAW is odd and silly. Personally I run where a creature can always hurt itself or its kin. Only with there natural attacks though. So a werewolf say picked up a normal sword they couldn't hurt another werewolf BUT with its bite or claw it could. Basically a creature should always be able to hurt itself or kill its kind if needed other wise gods forbid you some how ended up with two Tarrasque in the world just leave the world cause they would just fight forever and not be able to hurt each other. ( I know terrible example but it was the most extreme end I could go to)
"One of the most ancient and feared of all curses, lycanthropy can transform the most civilized humanoid into a ravening beast. In its natural humanoid form, a creature cursed by lycanthropy appears as its normal self. Over time, however, many lycanthropes acquire features suggestive of their animal form."
To me, this suggests that maybe it takes time before a cursed person becomes a lycanthrope. But even if it doesn't mean that: Just don't bite. Use the claws or spear. If that's not enough damage for the encounter, add more werewolves -- they're pack animals after all.
Other lycanthrope types are described as intentionally not using their bite attacks against humanoids because they don't want to spread the curse for ethical reasons. These ones could easily do the same for practical reasons.
And anyway, a wolf isn't going after humans as a first choice to eat. Idk why a werewolf would.
Delaying those benefits make the most since. Gotta have an incubation period. Makes for an excellent surprise to
Due to abusive, gaslighting, and immoral moderation on D&D Beyond, I will NOT be participating in the forums. I will keep my eyes and ears open, a free man, and seek out individuals elsewhere. Don't let this echo chamber of a site intimidate you into submission.