I have a friend that keeps insisting that as a monk the tortle's race trait that they have a 17 AC but don't get dex but he's saying that as a monk they can ignore the no dex part of their racial trait. I'm pretty sure that they do not but he insists that they do. Can someone solve this for me.
They only get to use a single AC formula. They have to pick which one they want to use (which is generally the highest).
From being a Tortle, they have access to the formula of AC = 17.
From being a Monk, they have the AC formula of AC = 10 + Dex mod + Wis mod.
So if Dex + Wis is less than 7, they should use the Tortle's Natural Armor. If Dex + Wis is equal to 7, it doesn't matter one way or the other, because they are equal. If Dex + Wis is bigger than 7, they should use Monk Unarmed Defense.
All that said, though, if they intend to use their Shell Defense for the bonus +4 AC, I'd rule they can only use that in conjunction with the Natural Armor (17+4=21), not the Unarmored Defense (10 + Dex + Wis + 4 = ???). The theory behind Unarmored Defense is that by not wearing armor, you are increasing your ability to dodge and weave around incoming attacks rather than blocking them. This... really doesn't mesh well with the concept of making yourself Prone to pull inside your shell.
You dont get DEX added to tortle AC ever. The only thing that stacks are modifiers (like a shield, shield spell, etc...)
As a monk he can choose if he wants to use AC 17 (tortle) or monk AC (10+dex+wis), or any other AC calculation formula (Armor, 10+dex,...), which he probably never wants to do as a monk.
RAW, a tortle monk can use Shell Defense to get a +4 to their Unarmored Defense AC. And in reality, that is a fine trade too, as there are significant penalties for using Shell Defense.
based on the character creator here on dnd beyond, they have an ac of 17. i play a tortle paladin so had already bought the race, i created a tortle monk with 18 as the base score for all, str wis dex etc and at the end the character sheet said it was ac 17 so the unarmored defence makes no difference when the race is tortle
based on the character creator here on dnd beyond, they have an ac of 17. i play a tortle paladin so had already bought the race, i created a tortle monk with 18 as the base score for all, str wis dex etc and at the end the character sheet said it was ac 17 so the unarmored defence makes no difference when the race is tortle
That would likely be a bug in DDB then. Any character always has the option to use any AC formula available to them. A tortle has a natural AC of 17. A tortle monk has both the 17 AND the monk calculation of 10+dex+wis. If they have 18 in each of dex and wis then their AC would be 18. Unless the tortle race description indicates that they can never use any other AC formula (and I don't think it does but I don't have the text handy) then the tortle AC should have been 18 in your example.
Just an FYI, here is what the package notes when it comes to AC.
Natural Armor
Due to your shell and the shape of your body, you are ill-suited to wearing armor. Your shell provides ample protection, however; it gives you a base AC of 17 (your Dexterity modifier doesn’t affect this number). You gain no benefit from wearing armor, but if you are using a shield, you can apply the shield’s bonus as normal.
Shell Defense
You can withdraw into your shell as an action. Until you emerge, you gain a +4 bonus to AC, and you have advantage on Strength and Constitution saving throws. While in your shell, you are prone, your speed is 0 and can’t increase, you have disadvantage on Dexterity saving throws, you can’t take reactions, and the only action you can take is a bonus action to emerge from your shell.
i didnt realise it was a bug, i was just reading the thread, thought i wonder if the character creator would settle the argument, so quickly made a character and put in the 18's as that would max it out. i dont plan on playing the character, i deleted it straight away, but it is interesting that, my thought process was that the creator was right, so it made no difference as it is a set ac for tortles but you guys are saying it is up to "you as the player" to pick which formula to use.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I have a friend that keeps insisting that as a monk the tortle's race trait that they have a 17 AC but don't get dex but he's saying that as a monk they can ignore the no dex part of their racial trait. I'm pretty sure that they do not but he insists that they do. Can someone solve this for me.
They only get to use a single AC formula. They have to pick which one they want to use (which is generally the highest).
From being a Tortle, they have access to the formula of AC = 17.
From being a Monk, they have the AC formula of AC = 10 + Dex mod + Wis mod.
So if Dex + Wis is less than 7, they should use the Tortle's Natural Armor. If Dex + Wis is equal to 7, it doesn't matter one way or the other, because they are equal. If Dex + Wis is bigger than 7, they should use Monk Unarmed Defense.
All that said, though, if they intend to use their Shell Defense for the bonus +4 AC, I'd rule they can only use that in conjunction with the Natural Armor (17+4=21), not the Unarmored Defense (10 + Dex + Wis + 4 = ???). The theory behind Unarmored Defense is that by not wearing armor, you are increasing your ability to dodge and weave around incoming attacks rather than blocking them. This... really doesn't mesh well with the concept of making yourself Prone to pull inside your shell.
You dont get DEX added to tortle AC ever. The only thing that stacks are modifiers (like a shield, shield spell, etc...)
As a monk he can choose if he wants to use AC 17 (tortle) or monk AC (10+dex+wis), or any other AC calculation formula (Armor, 10+dex,...), which he probably never wants to do as a monk.
But no he doesnt get DEX to 17 tortle AC.
RAW, a tortle monk can use Shell Defense to get a +4 to their Unarmored Defense AC. And in reality, that is a fine trade too, as there are significant penalties for using Shell Defense.
Site Info: Wizard's ToS | Fan Content Policy | Forum Rules | Physical Books | Content Not Working | Contact Support
How To: Homebrew Rules | Create Homebrew | Snippet Codes | Tool Tips (Custom) | Rollables (Generator)
My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Feats | Spells | Magic Items
Other: Beyond20 | Page References | Other Guides | Entitlements | Dice Randomization | Images Fix | FAQ
based on the character creator here on dnd beyond, they have an ac of 17. i play a tortle paladin so had already bought the race, i created a tortle monk with 18 as the base score for all, str wis dex etc and at the end the character sheet said it was ac 17 so the unarmored defence makes no difference when the race is tortle
That would likely be a bug in DDB then. Any character always has the option to use any AC formula available to them. A tortle has a natural AC of 17. A tortle monk has both the 17 AND the monk calculation of 10+dex+wis. If they have 18 in each of dex and wis then their AC would be 18. Unless the tortle race description indicates that they can never use any other AC formula (and I don't think it does but I don't have the text handy) then the tortle AC should have been 18 in your example.
Just an FYI, here is what the package notes when it comes to AC.
FYI 2:
The following was reported back in August of this year.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/bugs-support/79578-tortle-natural-armor-and-monk-unarmored-defense
So it's "on" the bug list.
i didnt realise it was a bug, i was just reading the thread, thought i wonder if the character creator would settle the argument, so quickly made a character and put in the 18's as that would max it out. i dont plan on playing the character, i deleted it straight away, but it is interesting that, my thought process was that the creator was right, so it made no difference as it is a set ac for tortles but you guys are saying it is up to "you as the player" to pick which formula to use.