"Until the spell ends, whenever you or a creature you can see moves into the spirit’s space for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, you can cause the spirit to restore 1d6 hit points to that creature (no action required). The spirit can’t heal constructs or undead."
'Whenever a creature does X for the first time on a turn' =/= "the first creature to do X is the only one to get the effect." If that were the case, persistent AOE spells would be functionally useless.
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Attending Academy until November, slowdown in posts continue.
Just read the first page and I don't really see it as an issue, just keep throwing big monsters at them to counter act healing out of combat.
It allows the DM to have more DPS. The rules are a guide, if you don't like healing spirit, change it. My DM hates conjure animal and sneak attack, they can completely alter the CR of a combat. However, as a player those are awesome. Why wouldn't I want to make combat easier!
For a fun exercise, I'd like to see what level a druid would have to cast Healing Spirit to get the healing power of Mass Heal (level 9 cleric spell). Unlike AoV and PoH, Mass Heal is not an Apples to Apples comparison since it's only an action and thus can be used in combat.
Mass Healing, Level 9 Total Healing: 700 HP
Healing Spirit, Level 4 Total Healing: 630 HP
Healing Spirit Level 7 Total Healing: 1260 HP
Healing Spirit Level 9 Total Healing: 1680 HP
What a freaking joke. And remember, this is with 6 party members. If for whatever reason you need to heal more people, you're welcome to with Healing Spirit (Prayer of Healing caps at 6 while Aura of Vitality and Mass Heal have a fixed pool). Got 20 people you need to heal? Throw down a level 3 Healing Spirit and you'll heal 1400 HP, double what a high level Cleric can do with a level 9 spell slot.
Say I have a familiar. Can I use my movement on my turn to move through the Healing Spirit and use my action to Ready a movement through the Healing Spirit using my reaction on my familiar’s turn?
Say I have a familiar. Can I use my movement on my turn to move through the Healing Spirit and use my action to Ready a movement through the Healing Spirit using my reaction on my familiar’s turn?
If you've already used your movement on your turn, then no. Having a familiar really has no impact on anything here.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Say I have a familiar. Can I use my movement on my turn to move through the Healing Spirit and use my action to Ready a movement through the Healing Spirit using my reaction on my familiar’s turn?
Yep! So long as you have sufficient movement remaining, and your reaction is still available, then this would work. Technically you could do it on anyone's turn, not just your familiar. Either way, what you've described should result in getting healed by the spirit at least twice that round.
So let me get this right - a party of 6 x Wood Elf Rangers (5th level+) can drop a healing spirit every 5' for 30' in an unbroken chain, and then walk (35' move) through them all and fire two bow shots, and then they move their HS 30' to the end of the chain, so each ranger heals 6d6 per turn and unleashes their arrows ... nice!
Say I have a familiar. Can I use my movement on my turn to move through the Healing Spirit and use my action to Ready a movement through the Healing Spirit using my reaction on my familiar’s turn?
Yep! So long as you have sufficient movement remaining, and your reaction is still available, then this would work. Technically you could do it on anyone's turn, not just your familiar. Either way, what you've described should result in getting healed by the spirit at least twice that round.
To be clear, you also need a perceptible trigger. "When it's X's turn" doesn't count since your character doesn't perceive turns passing. You'd want to pick a trigger like "when my familiar moves" or "when the fighter attacks."
Per the PHB, You can move through a nonhostile creature's space. In contrast, you can move through a hostile creature's space only if the creature is at least two sizes larger or smaller than you. Remember that another creature's space is difficult terrain for you.
I think the most you could reasonably chain is 3, maybe 4.
Frankly as a DM I love Healing Spirit, both my parties Druid and Ranger have it (they just reached level 5) and it allows me to throw so much more crap at them. If my Ranger wants to use it he has to waste one of his 2 spell slots, and out of combat it really just accounts to an extra couple short rests (if the druid doesn't use it or other spells in combat) which means I can have the opportunity to throw more crap at them. Also allows me to have much harder encounters, ensuring that the druid will almost definitely NEED to use it during combat to keep the party alive. That said, I can see the argument that it is unfair compared to some other forms of healing. If my party had both a Druid and a Cleric in it, I can see there being some tension.
Where are you getting your numbers from on healing spirit? I mean it's a 2nd level spell that heals 1d6 hit points to a single target per round for 10 rounds (1 minute). Meaning as a 2nd level spell slot if you happened to roll 6's ten times you would heal 60 hit points, which to be fair is a lot for a second level spell. However, it only goes up by an extra d6 per spell slot 3rd or higher, meaning it goes up by a maximum of 60 at 3rd, another 60 at 4th, and so forth all the way up to 9th. Which according the the math:
Healing Spirit, 4th Level Spell Slot: 6 x (spell slot level - 1) x 10 = 6 x 3 x 10 = 18 x 10 = 180
Healing Spirit, 4th Level Spell Slot: 6 x (spell slot level - 1) x 10 = 6 x 8 x 10 = 48 x 10 = 480
So if the maximum is 480 hit point if you roll all 6's, 48 of them to be precise, how exactly did you come up with a number over 3 times that!?
I mean if your math is right kudos to you, that's if you are into min-maxing the system. But otherwise your math is way off.
Is the spell broken? Depends, if you have a combat heavy campaign and your druid learns about that spell chances say it's gonna be a staple in their spell list. However, as someone who's participated in both Adventure League and countless other campaigns both as a player and a DM I have to say the leading complaint I get from people playing bards, clerics, and druids in combat heavy games is they feel like the party is constantly using them as their personal first aid kit. Almost every round is spend buffing or healing someone who gets in over their head in combat. Sometimes the cleric doesn't want to heal they want to instead summon the destructive wrath of their god, a druid wants to turn into a bear and go to town on the enemy, and the bard wants to hurl a fireball they learned from taking college of lore. What I'm saying is having a spell that allows a druid to focus on other actions in combat is a great thing, and I for one won't be excluding it from games I run. I've been relegated to playing a healer too many times to want people to be stuck in the monotony of having to cast cure wounds (or some other healing spell) every round, it's refreshing to be able to do something else every round all at the cost of maintaining concentration.
I've changed my mind about this spell. It's fine as is. Outside of combat healing just doesn't have that much of an impact on the game, and there are other options that are effective enough that you simply don't need to abuse this spell. In combat it takes a lot of work and coordination most parties don't have the discipline for to get the most out of it, and even then it doesn't heal enough at one go to overcome the damage being dealt in a typical combat round.
I played a druid recently in a campaign, and simply by just before taking a long rest, using every remaining spell slot to cast goodberry I had all the out of combat healing I needed to consistently keep a party of 5 people at or near full health at the beginning of each combat.
the broken part is people abusing the spell, ie. moving in and out of the area or using creative means to run in and out or riding a sled or whatever... as a dm you can curb this stuff but the mechanics behind the spell allow for abuse like that.
Where are you getting your numbers from on healing spirit? I mean it's a 2nd level spell that heals 1d6 hit points to a single target per round for 10 rounds (1 minute).
That is incorrect. The spell currently allows for healing any number of creatures in a turn. The hard limit is 2x heals (for any number of creatures) in a round via using a reaction to move through the spirit again. It should be limited to one creature per round, but that will require an official errata to fix.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
@ jon_wolf: If post #322 was directed at me, you may not have read my entire post. For example, I mentioned:
"In combat it takes a lot of work and coordination most parties don't have the discipline for to get the most out of it, and even then it doesn't heal enough at one go to overcome the damage being dealt in a typical combat round."
If you've got a party that's able to abuse this spell through coordination during combat, houseruling this spell isn't going to do a lot to curb their effectiveness. They'll just find some other exploit. In my experience groups capable of this are rare in the extreme. Most groups I play with can't agree on whether they want to fight, talk, or flee when an encounter starts. The kind of things a group needs to do to "abuse" this spell require incredible teamwork.
That aside, the things required even with that level of teamwork create vulnerabilities. Specifically to AoEs, and a round or two of taking fireballs or dragon breath is quickly going to make a party re-think their conga line of 1d6 healing for everyone a round.
A strong parallel can be drawn between Healing Spirit and Aura of Vitality, and a lesser parallel to Prayer of Healing. All 3 are designed to be used out of combat to heal up after a fight. For the following comparisons we'll assume a 6-person party and a healer with an 18 in their casting stat (only relevant to Prayer of Healing).
(EDIT: To be clear, there are MANY forms of healing in the game, but none of them come close to the power of Healing Spirit, Aura of Vitality, and Prayer of Healing - all of which are designed to be heal multiple targets in a between-encounter scenario. These three stand head and shoulders over every other healing option in the game.)
Aura of Vitality, which is available only to level 9 paladins, requires a 3rd level spell and 1 minute of concentration, can heal 20d6 hit points. That's an average of 70 HP which is a pool that can be distributed out in in 2d6 (7 HP) increments to the party at the caster's discretion. This spell cannot be scaled upward.
Prayer of Healing, which is available only to level 3 Clerics, requires a 2nd level spell and 10 minutes of casting, can heal 2d8+Mod hit points per party member. That's an average of 78 HP, of which only 2d8+Mod (13 HP) can go to a single party member. Every extra spell level increases healing by 1d8, so a 3rd level spell slot (equivalent to AoV) would heal an average of 105 HP, of which only 3d8+Mod (17.5 HP) can go to a single party member.
Healing Spirit, which is available to level 3 Druids and level 5 Rangers, requires a 2nd level spell and 1 minute of concentration, can heal 60d6 hit points. That's an average of 210 HP, of which 10d6 (35 HP) can go to a single party member. Every extra spell level increases healing by 1d6, so a 3rd level spell slot (equivalent to AoV) would heal an average of 420 HP, of which 20d6 (70 HP) can go to a single party member.
So, to compare them let's look at level 3 for each.
Aura of Vitality, 1 Minute Total Healing: 20d6 (70 HP) Max per Individual: 20d6 (70 HP)
Prayer of Healing, 10 minutes Total Healing: [3d8+Mod]*6 (105 HP) Max per Individual: 3d8+Mod (17.5 HP)
Healing Spirit, 1 minute Total Healing: 120d6 (420 HP) Max per Individual: 20d6 (70 HP)
This is broken. Broken to a point that it's not worth discussing whether it's broken.
Which begs some questions. How did this make it into an official released product? Why did none of the WotC team spot this problem? Why did none of the people who were reviewing this material under NDA spot this problem? And, most importantly, why on earth would WotC release new spells without running them by the public through a UA when the entire purpose of the UA was to identify these kinds of problems so they wouldn't make it into official releases?
With this one ability WotC has completely invalidated every out-of-combat healing ability in the game. Prayer of Healing and Aura of Vitality? Joke status. Bard's Song of Rest? Joke status. Healer feat? Joke status.
Everything is a joke compared to Healing Spirit, which is more powerful than all of them put together and combined.
What we have here is a failure to use common sense. It's a healing spirit, not a healing missile. There is no way any DM should allow more than 2 people to use this in combat during a 6 second round. and I could see limiting it to 1 per round in an especially chaotic combat. Out of combat 4 characters could use it per round if they are in armor or 6 if they are unarmored.
A particularly clever party will be able to move each character through the Healing Spirit 2x per round for a ludicrous, ridiculous amount of healing. A level of healing that makes all other healing options paltry and akin to a failed IQ test.
Move through the spirit - take your 1d6. Then take the Ready action which will be triggered by the start of the next person's turn. Then use your reaction to move through the Healing Spirit again. 2d6 each round, like clockwork for all party members.
This is especially painful for Adventurer's League DM's where they have to take things as RAW.
Don't worry. It only took them 2+ years to finally update Contagion and Instrument of the Bards. I'm sure the fix for this will arrive any year now.
In a Homebrew situation you can at least run with Jeremy Crawford's suggestion which is to cap the spell at 2x Casting MOD in d6's (6d6 - 10d6 in most cases).
This is especially painful for Adventurer's League DM's where they have to take things as RAW.
It's been a while since I popped into this thread that seems to refuse to die but....I would just like to reiterate, that, at least on an anecdotal level, as an AL DM, and as friends with several other AL DMs, absolutely none of us have had issues with this spell in any way that has caused any real impact on any AL game we have run since the spell came into existence.
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'Whenever a creature does X for the first time on a turn' =/= "the first creature to do X is the only one to get the effect." If that were the case, persistent AOE spells would be functionally useless.
Attending Academy until November, slowdown in posts continue.
Just read the first page and I don't really see it as an issue, just keep throwing big monsters at them to counter act healing out of combat.
It allows the DM to have more DPS. The rules are a guide, if you don't like healing spirit, change it. My DM hates conjure animal and sneak attack, they can completely alter the CR of a combat. However, as a player those are awesome. Why wouldn't I want to make combat easier!
Yeh just kinda op
Say I have a familiar. Can I use my movement on my turn to move through the Healing Spirit and use my action to Ready a movement through the Healing Spirit using my reaction on my familiar’s turn?
If you've already used your movement on your turn, then no. Having a familiar really has no impact on anything here.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Yep! So long as you have sufficient movement remaining, and your reaction is still available, then this would work. Technically you could do it on anyone's turn, not just your familiar. Either way, what you've described should result in getting healed by the spirit at least twice that round.
So let me get this right - a party of 6 x Wood Elf Rangers (5th level+) can drop a healing spirit every 5' for 30' in an unbroken chain, and then walk (35' move) through them all and fire two bow shots, and then they move their HS 30' to the end of the chain, so each ranger heals 6d6 per turn and unleashes their arrows ... nice!
Life's hard - get a helmet!
To be clear, you also need a perceptible trigger. "When it's X's turn" doesn't count since your character doesn't perceive turns passing. You'd want to pick a trigger like "when my familiar moves" or "when the fighter attacks."
That’s why I used a familiar in my example. Since you control the familiar, you can have it do whatever you make the trigger.
Per the PHB, You can move through a nonhostile creature's space. In contrast, you can move through a hostile creature's space only if the creature is at least two sizes larger or smaller than you. Remember that another creature's space is difficult terrain for you.
I think the most you could reasonably chain is 3, maybe 4.
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Actually six people could sit side by side on a log. You can move the spirit 30ft per round.
Frankly as a DM I love Healing Spirit, both my parties Druid and Ranger have it (they just reached level 5) and it allows me to throw so much more crap at them. If my Ranger wants to use it he has to waste one of his 2 spell slots, and out of combat it really just accounts to an extra couple short rests (if the druid doesn't use it or other spells in combat) which means I can have the opportunity to throw more crap at them.
Also allows me to have much harder encounters, ensuring that the druid will almost definitely NEED to use it during combat to keep the party alive.
That said, I can see the argument that it is unfair compared to some other forms of healing. If my party had both a Druid and a Cleric in it, I can see there being some tension.
Where are you getting your numbers from on healing spirit? I mean it's a 2nd level spell that heals 1d6 hit points to a single target per round for 10 rounds (1 minute). Meaning as a 2nd level spell slot if you happened to roll 6's ten times you would heal 60 hit points, which to be fair is a lot for a second level spell. However, it only goes up by an extra d6 per spell slot 3rd or higher, meaning it goes up by a maximum of 60 at 3rd, another 60 at 4th, and so forth all the way up to 9th. Which according the the math:
Healing Spirit, 4th Level Spell Slot: 6 x (spell slot level - 1) x 10 = 6 x 3 x 10 = 18 x 10 = 180
Healing Spirit, 4th Level Spell Slot: 6 x (spell slot level - 1) x 10 = 6 x 8 x 10 = 48 x 10 = 480
So if the maximum is 480 hit point if you roll all 6's, 48 of them to be precise, how exactly did you come up with a number over 3 times that!?
I mean if your math is right kudos to you, that's if you are into min-maxing the system. But otherwise your math is way off.
Is the spell broken? Depends, if you have a combat heavy campaign and your druid learns about that spell chances say it's gonna be a staple in their spell list. However, as someone who's participated in both Adventure League and countless other campaigns both as a player and a DM I have to say the leading complaint I get from people playing bards, clerics, and druids in combat heavy games is they feel like the party is constantly using them as their personal first aid kit. Almost every round is spend buffing or healing someone who gets in over their head in combat. Sometimes the cleric doesn't want to heal they want to instead summon the destructive wrath of their god, a druid wants to turn into a bear and go to town on the enemy, and the bard wants to hurl a fireball they learned from taking college of lore. What I'm saying is having a spell that allows a druid to focus on other actions in combat is a great thing, and I for one won't be excluding it from games I run. I've been relegated to playing a healer too many times to want people to be stuck in the monotony of having to cast cure wounds (or some other healing spell) every round, it's refreshing to be able to do something else every round all at the cost of maintaining concentration.
I've changed my mind about this spell. It's fine as is. Outside of combat healing just doesn't have that much of an impact on the game, and there are other options that are effective enough that you simply don't need to abuse this spell. In combat it takes a lot of work and coordination most parties don't have the discipline for to get the most out of it, and even then it doesn't heal enough at one go to overcome the damage being dealt in a typical combat round.
I played a druid recently in a campaign, and simply by just before taking a long rest, using every remaining spell slot to cast goodberry I had all the out of combat healing I needed to consistently keep a party of 5 people at or near full health at the beginning of each combat.
...sorry g. you're late to the party :)
the broken part is people abusing the spell, ie. moving in and out of the area or using creative means to run in and out or riding a sled or whatever... as a dm you can curb this stuff but the mechanics behind the spell allow for abuse like that.
That is incorrect. The spell currently allows for healing any number of creatures in a turn. The hard limit is 2x heals (for any number of creatures) in a round via using a reaction to move through the spirit again. It should be limited to one creature per round, but that will require an official errata to fix.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
@ jon_wolf: If post #322 was directed at me, you may not have read my entire post. For example, I mentioned:
"In combat it takes a lot of work and coordination most parties don't have the discipline for to get the most out of it, and even then it doesn't heal enough at one go to overcome the damage being dealt in a typical combat round."
If you've got a party that's able to abuse this spell through coordination during combat, houseruling this spell isn't going to do a lot to curb their effectiveness. They'll just find some other exploit. In my experience groups capable of this are rare in the extreme. Most groups I play with can't agree on whether they want to fight, talk, or flee when an encounter starts. The kind of things a group needs to do to "abuse" this spell require incredible teamwork.
That aside, the things required even with that level of teamwork create vulnerabilities. Specifically to AoEs, and a round or two of taking fireballs or dragon breath is quickly going to make a party re-think their conga line of 1d6 healing for everyone a round.
What we have here is a failure to use common sense. It's a healing spirit, not a healing missile. There is no way any DM should allow more than 2 people to use this in combat during a 6 second round. and I could see limiting it to 1 per round in an especially chaotic combat. Out of combat 4 characters could use it per round if they are in armor or 6 if they are unarmored.
A particularly clever party will be able to move each character through the Healing Spirit 2x per round for a ludicrous, ridiculous amount of healing. A level of healing that makes all other healing options paltry and akin to a failed IQ test.
Move through the spirit - take your 1d6. Then take the Ready action which will be triggered by the start of the next person's turn. Then use your reaction to move through the Healing Spirit again. 2d6 each round, like clockwork for all party members.
This is especially painful for Adventurer's League DM's where they have to take things as RAW.
Don't worry. It only took them 2+ years to finally update Contagion and Instrument of the Bards. I'm sure the fix for this will arrive any year now.
In a Homebrew situation you can at least run with Jeremy Crawford's suggestion which is to cap the spell at 2x Casting MOD in d6's (6d6 - 10d6 in most cases).
It's been a while since I popped into this thread that seems to refuse to die but....I would just like to reiterate, that, at least on an anecdotal level, as an AL DM, and as friends with several other AL DMs, absolutely none of us have had issues with this spell in any way that has caused any real impact on any AL game we have run since the spell came into existence.