I came up with this idea when trying to figure out how to get a single player more concentration slots. I haven't found any rules that contradict this combo, though it is slightly limited.
You need to have the Find Familiar spell and a couple Ring of Spell Storing(s). You can put find familiar in one or two rings, but in any case, you can allow your familiar to attune to the ring and cast the spell inside. The spell inside is not an attack spell, and your familiar can do anything a normal player could do, except for make an attack... so it can summon its own familiar. Do this as many times as you can afford, and put other spells that you want to concentrate on without using your own concentration into the rings. Let each familiar be attuned to a ring, so they can cast these spells on you...
What I'm unsure about is if you can cast an Extended Spell into the ring and have that spell come out again Extended... say for example a Sorcerer with Extended Spell also has dipped into Wizard and gotten Flock of Familiars and casts that extended into the ring. Your familiar could then theoretically make three familiars that all last for two hours (or one hour longer than it takes to attune to a ring). It's a bit wonky, but a fun way to help out a single caster if you're just doing 1 on 1.
I'm not sure that familiars can attune to magic items. They're spirits, after all.
Easier to have the PC have commoner hireling(s)? They definitely could, and you don't need to do weird tricks with whether a familiar can attune to something or not and what happens if a familiar summons a familiar, etc.
A sorcerer's Extended Spell ability would not work with a ring of storing. The text of Ring of Spell Storing says "The spell uses the slot level, spell save DC, spell Attack bonus, and Spellcasting Ability of the original caster, but is otherwise treated as if you cast the spell. " So the "extended spell" metamagic of the sorcerer would not carry over from the original caster to the new caster.
I'm not sure that familiars can attune to magic items. They're spirits, after all.
A familiar is a creature. Any creature can attune to a magic item. It's up to the DM whether a familiar can wear a ring designed for humanoids and whether they understand the concept of attunement. The Find Familiar spell doesn't raise the animal's intelligence.
A sorcerer's Extended Spell ability would not work with a ring of storing. The text of Ring of Spell Storing says "The spell uses the slot level, spell save DC, spell Attack bonus, and Spellcasting Ability of the original caster, but is otherwise treated as if you cast the spell. " So the "extended spell" metamagic of the sorcerer would not carry over from the original caster to the new caster.
Even if a familiar could do this, and I think they could, they probably couldn't hold their concentration more than a round, at best.
Concentration can be maintained even across different dimensions - you can cast Hold person and then plane shift them into a dangerous place like plane of water, they'll still be paralysed while there if they keep failing their saves. So, dismiss familiars to their own pocket dimensions.
However, many DMs may rule that a spirit cannot have its own familiar. Or that you don't have these Rings of Spell Storing. I would discuss this with the DM first. Concentration is designed as a balance mechanic and exploiting your way around it may cause the DM some headaches.
I definitely would not give out more than one Ring of Spell Storing in a campaign for starters! That would limit this trick a great deal.
I would let a Warlock who took Pact of the Tome use a Ring of Spell Storing with his familiar to cast Concentration spells from it, but Pact of the Tome familiars are intelligent. I would also let a Wizard or Sorcerer who formed a bond with an intelligent Variant Familiar give it a Ring of Spell Storing the same way. But this would only give a spellcaster one extra Concentration spell and the same thing can easily be accomplished by simply giving the ring to a non-spell caster in the group and having spell casters keep it charged up with spells. The one time I was playing a spell caster who acquired a Ring of Spell Storing that’s what I did, I gave it to someone else in the group to wear and I kept it charged up with spells.
I would be against this personally. First a couple of familiars are smart (and yes one example I am giving is based on DM permission from Storm King's Thunder) tressym it has an 11 Intelligence. So does an Imp, for a Warlock with Pact of the chain. Whether in either case do they have the ability to use a magic item is questionable. And if it were allowed, expect more AoE spells that can kill a 4 hp familiar.
The concentration rules were put in place for balance, as annoying as that is. This is an attempt to circumvent that rule. A hireling/apprentice under the control of the DM is a better valid choice...of course they may not be good at maintaining it due to damage :) But they are probably more durable.
From a game perspective, the familiar-chain seems like a solution that doesn't work for either a player or a DM.
If you're a DM, and you want players to be able to concentrate on multiple spells at once, just let them do it. Give them a homebrew magic item - "ring of concentration, while wearing this ring you can concentrate on one extra spell at a time" or something. No need to figure out weird edge cases using multiple spells of spell storing and flocks of familiars, which are confusing and may or may not work anyway.
If you're a player, this sort of stuff might SERIOUSLY get on DMs nerves. You're trying to rules-lawyer around a basic balance restriction in the game (one concentration spell at a time). If you want to do it, just do it in a more straightforward way (commoner hirelings) so that it doesn't feel like you're trying to "trap" your DM into allowing it.
It is fun as a theorycrafting "look what the spells might let you do" kind of experiment, though.
Familiars cannot have familiars of their own. It's patently ridiculous. There would be wizards walking around with dozens and dozens. D&D has been around for a long time, don't you think that people haven't come up with the idea years ago? It is just basic, common sense. Even the suggestion that a familiar could have it's own familiar, which could have it's own familiar ad infinitem - let alone that those familiars could then cast and concentrate on spells is the worst form of munchkinism imaginable. Yes, I get that it might not 'explicitly say' yada yada yada - it shouldn't need to.
A familiar is a creature. Any creature can attune to a magic item.
I would argue that only intelligent creatures can use tools. A dumb animal can't use a magic item any more than it can use a slide rule.
Super late to the party on this, but I'm an ecologist and there are lots of animals that the monster manual says have an intelligence of 2 or 3 that can use tools in the real world. Ravens are a really good example, and will even make simple tools.
A familiar is a creature. Any creature can attune to a magic item.
I would argue that only intelligent creatures can use tools. A dumb animal can't use a magic item any more than it can use a slide rule.
Super late to the party on this, but I'm an ecologist and there are lots of animals that the monster manual says have an intelligence of 2 or 3 that can use tools in the real world. Ravens are a really good example, and will even make simple tools.
Those crows lived in Oxford and, while they are reported to have figured things out themselves, a 5e raven could be considered to be comparatively thick.
A DM can still rule that the involvements of attunement and concentration involve different skills from those of animals especially non-awakened ones.
Super late to the party on this, but I'm an ecologist and there are lots of animals that the monster manual says have an intelligence of 2 or 3 that can use tools in the real world. Ravens are a really good example, and will even make simple tools.
I'm not an ecologist by profession but I have been a life long wildlife activist, including working as a conservationist volunteer for a number of UK wide wildlife charities and Trusts. Yes, some animals are more intelligent than others, ravens are known to have learned to use sticks, twigs, rocks etc to perform simple tasks to help them obtain food. But that is entirely different to spending an hour in an occult meditative trance while manipulating magical forces to attune to a magical device. They can't pin a broach to their chest, they can't pick up a 2 foot long wand and activate it, they can't put a human sized ring on their claw and 'wear' it. Some birds are capable of mimicking human voices but it is clear from the text that the words used in spell casting are irrelevant, it is the tonal inflections and patterns that are important - and not within the ability of such birds. There is a world of difference between a raven using a twig to scrape food out of a hole to performing complex hand motions and the mental machinations to use an item to cast a spell.
Super late to the party on this, but I'm an ecologist and there are lots of animals that the monster manual says have an intelligence of 2 or 3 that can use tools in the real world. Ravens are a really good example, and will even make simple tools.
I'm not an ecologist by profession but I have been a life long wildlife activist, including working as a conservationist volunteer for a number of UK wide wildlife charities and Trusts. Yes, some animals are more intelligent than others, ravens are known to have learned to use sticks, twigs, rocks etc to perform simple tasks to help them obtain food. But that is entirely different to spending an hour in an occult meditative trance while manipulating magical forces to attune to a magical device. They can't pin a broach to their chest, they can't pick up a 2 foot long wand and activate it, they can't put a human sized ring on their claw and 'wear' it. Some birds are capable of mimicking human voices but it is clear from the text that the words used in spell casting are irrelevant, it is the tonal inflections and patterns that are important - and not within the ability of such birds. There is a world of difference between a raven using a twig to scrape food out of a hole to performing complex hand motions and the mental machinations to use an item to cast a spell.
Just seemed like there was a fair bit of underestimating intelligence on here. But since we're also discussing the specific item and mechanics (obviously this is up to the DM's discretion) the ring of spell storing doesn't place any limitations on attunement (such as intelligence) like some magic items do, and the way it's written it says that "any creature can cast a spell of 1st through 5th level into the ring by touching the ring" so it could be on a familiars collar.
The ring would still need to have been attuned to and worn on a finger which the raven could not do. Attunement is a specific process that requires at a minimum 1 hour of meditation while manipulating the object. Again the raven would not be capable of doing that.
The ring would still need to have been attuned to and worn on a finger which the raven could not do. Attunement is a specific process that requires at a minimum 1 hour of meditation while manipulating the object. Again the raven would not be capable of doing that.
The ring needs to be in contact, not necessarily worn, "Attuning to an item requires a creature to spend a short rest focused on only that item while being in physical contact with it." The attunement rule as written also states that the focus doesn't have to be meditation, though it gave that example for a wonderous item (which a spell storing ring is not). I'd argue a familiar at least would be able to attune to it, even if it needed its master's help. As a DM I would allow it as the rules as they are written would do not go against the idea.
I came up with this idea when trying to figure out how to get a single player more concentration slots. I haven't found any rules that contradict this combo, though it is slightly limited.
You need to have the Find Familiar spell and a couple Ring of Spell Storing(s). You can put find familiar in one or two rings, but in any case, you can allow your familiar to attune to the ring and cast the spell inside. The spell inside is not an attack spell, and your familiar can do anything a normal player could do, except for make an attack... so it can summon its own familiar. Do this as many times as you can afford, and put other spells that you want to concentrate on without using your own concentration into the rings. Let each familiar be attuned to a ring, so they can cast these spells on you...
What I'm unsure about is if you can cast an Extended Spell into the ring and have that spell come out again Extended... say for example a Sorcerer with Extended Spell also has dipped into Wizard and gotten Flock of Familiars and casts that extended into the ring. Your familiar could then theoretically make three familiars that all last for two hours (or one hour longer than it takes to attune to a ring). It's a bit wonky, but a fun way to help out a single caster if you're just doing 1 on 1.
I'm not sure that familiars can attune to magic items. They're spirits, after all.
Easier to have the PC have commoner hireling(s)? They definitely could, and you don't need to do weird tricks with whether a familiar can attune to something or not and what happens if a familiar summons a familiar, etc.
A sorcerer's Extended Spell ability would not work with a ring of storing. The text of Ring of Spell Storing says "The spell uses the slot level, spell save DC, spell Attack bonus, and Spellcasting Ability of the original caster, but is otherwise treated as if you cast the spell. " So the "extended spell" metamagic of the sorcerer would not carry over from the original caster to the new caster.
A familiar is a creature. Any creature can attune to a magic item. It's up to the DM whether a familiar can wear a ring designed for humanoids and whether they understand the concept of attunement. The Find Familiar spell doesn't raise the animal's intelligence.
Correct.
Even if a familiar could do this, and I think they could, they probably couldn't hold their concentration more than a round, at best.
Concentration can be maintained even across different dimensions - you can cast Hold person and then plane shift them into a dangerous place like plane of water, they'll still be paralysed while there if they keep failing their saves. So, dismiss familiars to their own pocket dimensions.
However, many DMs may rule that a spirit cannot have its own familiar. Or that you don't have these Rings of Spell Storing. I would discuss this with the DM first. Concentration is designed as a balance mechanic and exploiting your way around it may cause the DM some headaches.
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I would argue that only intelligent creatures can use tools. A dumb animal can't use a magic item any more than it can use a slide rule.
I definitely would not give out more than one Ring of Spell Storing in a campaign for starters! That would limit this trick a great deal.
I would let a Warlock who took Pact of the Tome use a Ring of Spell Storing with his familiar to cast Concentration spells from it, but Pact of the Tome familiars are intelligent. I would also let a Wizard or Sorcerer who formed a bond with an intelligent Variant Familiar give it a Ring of Spell Storing the same way. But this would only give a spellcaster one extra Concentration spell and the same thing can easily be accomplished by simply giving the ring to a non-spell caster in the group and having spell casters keep it charged up with spells. The one time I was playing a spell caster who acquired a Ring of Spell Storing that’s what I did, I gave it to someone else in the group to wear and I kept it charged up with spells.
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I wouldn’t allow this with a familiar but I could see a more lenient DM allowing it and then a player exploiting it like crazy.
I would be against this personally. First a couple of familiars are smart (and yes one example I am giving is based on DM permission from Storm King's Thunder) tressym it has an 11 Intelligence. So does an Imp, for a Warlock with Pact of the chain. Whether in either case do they have the ability to use a magic item is questionable. And if it were allowed, expect more AoE spells that can kill a 4 hp familiar.
The concentration rules were put in place for balance, as annoying as that is. This is an attempt to circumvent that rule. A hireling/apprentice under the control of the DM is a better valid choice...of course they may not be good at maintaining it due to damage :) But they are probably more durable.
From a game perspective, the familiar-chain seems like a solution that doesn't work for either a player or a DM.
If you're a DM, and you want players to be able to concentrate on multiple spells at once, just let them do it. Give them a homebrew magic item - "ring of concentration, while wearing this ring you can concentrate on one extra spell at a time" or something. No need to figure out weird edge cases using multiple spells of spell storing and flocks of familiars, which are confusing and may or may not work anyway.
If you're a player, this sort of stuff might SERIOUSLY get on DMs nerves. You're trying to rules-lawyer around a basic balance restriction in the game (one concentration spell at a time). If you want to do it, just do it in a more straightforward way (commoner hirelings) so that it doesn't feel like you're trying to "trap" your DM into allowing it.
It is fun as a theorycrafting "look what the spells might let you do" kind of experiment, though.
As a DM, I would disallow this mostly because it's a transparent attempt at gaming the system. I'd put it right up there with the CoffeeLock nonsense.
the pact of the chain familiars are capable of concentration with the possible exception of the pseudodragon it's right on their stat blocks
Familiars cannot have familiars of their own. It's patently ridiculous. There would be wizards walking around with dozens and dozens. D&D has been around for a long time, don't you think that people haven't come up with the idea years ago? It is just basic, common sense. Even the suggestion that a familiar could have it's own familiar, which could have it's own familiar ad infinitem - let alone that those familiars could then cast and concentrate on spells is the worst form of munchkinism imaginable. Yes, I get that it might not 'explicitly say' yada yada yada - it shouldn't need to.
laughs in 10th level chronurgist
Super late to the party on this, but I'm an ecologist and there are lots of animals that the monster manual says have an intelligence of 2 or 3 that can use tools in the real world. Ravens are a really good example, and will even make simple tools.
Those crows lived in Oxford and, while they are reported to have figured things out themselves, a 5e raven could be considered to be comparatively thick.
A DM can still rule that the involvements of attunement and concentration involve different skills from those of animals especially non-awakened ones.
I'm not an ecologist by profession but I have been a life long wildlife activist, including working as a conservationist volunteer for a number of UK wide wildlife charities and Trusts. Yes, some animals are more intelligent than others, ravens are known to have learned to use sticks, twigs, rocks etc to perform simple tasks to help them obtain food. But that is entirely different to spending an hour in an occult meditative trance while manipulating magical forces to attune to a magical device. They can't pin a broach to their chest, they can't pick up a 2 foot long wand and activate it, they can't put a human sized ring on their claw and 'wear' it. Some birds are capable of mimicking human voices but it is clear from the text that the words used in spell casting are irrelevant, it is the tonal inflections and patterns that are important - and not within the ability of such birds. There is a world of difference between a raven using a twig to scrape food out of a hole to performing complex hand motions and the mental machinations to use an item to cast a spell.
Just seemed like there was a fair bit of underestimating intelligence on here. But since we're also discussing the specific item and mechanics (obviously this is up to the DM's discretion) the ring of spell storing doesn't place any limitations on attunement (such as intelligence) like some magic items do, and the way it's written it says that "any creature can cast a spell of 1st through 5th level into the ring by touching the ring" so it could be on a familiars collar.
The ring would still need to have been attuned to and worn on a finger which the raven could not do. Attunement is a specific process that requires at a minimum 1 hour of meditation while manipulating the object. Again the raven would not be capable of doing that.
The ring needs to be in contact, not necessarily worn, "Attuning to an item requires a creature to spend a short rest focused on only that item while being in physical contact with it." The attunement rule as written also states that the focus doesn't have to be meditation, though it gave that example for a wonderous item (which a spell storing ring is not). I'd argue a familiar at least would be able to attune to it, even if it needed its master's help. As a DM I would allow it as the rules as they are written would do not go against the idea.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/magic-items#Attunement