So, I'm looking to make some builds that center around high initiative for my Youtube Channel (The Attic Dungeon, go check it out!) and I'm looking at races that provide some bonus to initiative. I'm not looking at ability score increases granted by the race, Tasha has made that pretty irrelevant. So far all I can think off is Halfing's luck to reroll 1s on initiative. Am I missing something or is there really no race that boosts initative in even the slightest way outside of AS bonuses?
No races boost initiative. With that said, variant human gives a feat at level 1, which could be used to take Alert. Obviously, this isn't quite the same, but that race is the only way to get Alert at 1st level, so it's something, at least.
Yeah, that's what I figured. I've already calculated grabbing Alert at lvl 4 ASI to hopefully have a race that boosts the initiative, but the Halfling luck seems to be the only non var-human thing out there.
So, I'm looking to make some builds that center around high initiative for my Youtube Channel (The Attic Dungeon, go check it out!) and I'm looking at races that provide some bonus to initiative. I'm not looking at ability score increases granted by the race, Tasha has made that pretty irrelevant. So far all I can think off is Halfing's luck to reroll 1s on initiative. Am I missing something or is there really no race that boosts initative in even the slightest way outside of AS bonuses?
Thanks for any help.
Any race with a +2 bonus to Dexterity guarantees a higher Initiative than a race which doesn't. Having said that, with Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, any race can now have a +2. You can also create custom lineages, or use the Variant Human (if allowed), to create a character with +5 to their Initiative; courtesy of the Alert feat.
If you're using the variant Speed Factor Initiative found in the DMG, then Small races (gnomes, halflings, etc) also gain a bonus.
And in case you didn't know it, bards get a bonus on initiative rolls due to Jack-of-all-Trades. I know you asked about races, but in case you were going all out for initiative, a bard does offer a plus.
I love bards, but I would never play a bard to get an initiative bonus.
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There are multiple classes that give initiative bonus, or advantage to initiative, but I think the goal of the original question was to find a race that could stack with the class. (Which could then stack with a feat, then with high ability score, then magic item) Kind of like all the "DPR max builds" but with initiative.
Ye you got the gist right. Already got all the feats/bard tricks in the build. It's even going to be a valour/sword Bard/rogue swashbuckler build so I can add Cha to initiative as well and sneak attack will have it's uses as well. Alert already in the build too.
A bit sad that initative is one of the very few things that doesn't receive a bonus from any none Ability score racial bonus whatsoever. O well, thanks for the help :).
Pretty sure I saw another in another thread that it's theoretically possible to get +100. It might even be higher now with Watchers Paladin and other newer subclasses/spells/feats. You'd need all stats to 30 - but even without that it's easy to get anywhere from +20-50.
Unlike most other features or strategies in 5th edition that reward further investment into specific strategies, bonuses to initiative have diminished returns after certain bonuses. Adding damage or accuracy to each subsequent attack you make can have large impacts on a creatures impact because those numbers of attacks usually scale. The bonus to initiative is different though, as after a certain threshold it doesn’t matter how high your initiative is, you still only get to take your turn first and cement your place ahead in the initiative order.
the alert feat is the most bang you’re going to get for you buck. It’s a static +5 regardless of your other features, which is incredibly potent since the vast majority of creatures you’re fighting may not have more than a +3 due to dexterity. There are also several classes that boost initiative by other mod which add to your dexterity bonus too. The supplemental and even stronger effect of the alert feat is that you can’t be surprised, regardless of your wisdom and perception score.
id venture to say that this if a party decided to collectively take the alert feat, and one of those members happened to be a watcher paladin, then your party and its action economy would be insane and therefore punching much higher above their weight class than another similar party.
it’s almost like your entire party is guaranteed an extra turn each battle.
No race or class or background gives a boost to initiative. However, Variant Humans can take the Alert feat at first level. Additionally, your initiative modifier is, by default, equal to your DEX modifier. So a DEX based character is often the first to act in an encounter.
Note, I say the initiative modifier is equal to the DEX modifier, which is true. But there are other ways of increasing one modifier, but not the other, such as feats. But with standard leveling and no special features, Initiative = DEX.
Ye you got the gist right. Already got all the feats/bard tricks in the build. It's even going to be a valour/sword Bard/rogue swashbuckler build so I can add Cha to initiative as well and sneak attack will have it's uses as well. Alert already in the build too.
A bit sad that initative is one of the very few things that doesn't receive a bonus from any none Ability score racial bonus whatsoever. O well, thanks for the help :).
Technically being a halfling adds an average of 0.475 to your initiative, because the Lucky trait applies to initiative (5% chance to reroll, averaging +9.5).
This can be easy now with the Harengan. go 1 level fighter or cleric that is proficient in heavy armor. str 8, Dex 16, con 8, int 16, wis 16, cha 8. go 4 levels ranger (gloomstalker) ASI feat Alert. 2 levels war wizard. level 7 19 initiative.
why heavy armor? You will need to take a resistance potion or something to get the armor on but scorpion Armor adds +5 initiative, ioun stone of mastery that gives +1 to proficiency bonus, stone of luck for +1.
Tome and manuals of int/wis/dex and go fighter for the extra ASI’s gets your primary stats to 22 each 6+6+6+7 (prof bonus)+ 5 alert, +5 scorpion armor+1 stone of luck I think is +36 initiative
I think you could scrap wizard and go swash buckler with cha too. And I think the black dragon mask adds cha to initiative.
The Wild Beyond The Witchlight introduced the Harengon as a playable race(the rabbitfolk race from an earlier Fey-themed Unearthed Arcana). One of their racial abilities is "Hare-Trigger" which lets them add their proficiency bonus to Initiative rolls. Which has me very curious what they would be like playing Matt Mercer's Gunslinger subclass for Fighters, who also get to add their PB to Initiative roles starting at Level 7. I don't *think* those two abilities would stack, since I'm pretty sure it's in the books somewhere that you only get to add your PB to an ability check once whether it's all, half, double, or whatever. At least, that's how I hope it works because otherwise it could get a little ridiculous :)
What Hare Trigger does work with is the rogue's Reliable Talent. Take Swashbuckler and you're getting PROF+DEX+CHA+10+ by level 11.
It is a law of diminishing returns. With +15 you will usually always go first, with +20 it will be very rare not to go first anything more than about 25 you will always go first.
I remember the rule about only adding proficiency once as well, so no that wouldn't stack .As stated it does work with features that add an ability score to your initiative ( war wizard, swashbuckler).
The diminishing returns comes from the opportunity cost(feats and class levels) of gaining initiative bonuses vs how reliable the initiative bonus is.
chronomancy wizard with gift of alacrity seems to be the “best” for how hugh its average can get without feats or multiclassing, though this effects only that wizard.
a lore bard is actually very nice too, but with the added effect that cutting words can potentially be used against a tough enemy when initiative is rolled. This is effectively similar to the oath of the watchers aura in that it can effect your whole parties initiative, but available at level 3.
the alert feat becomes pretty amazing, but it effects one player, costs a feat. +5 initiative, useful defensive buffs in obscurity, and the ability to be completely immune to surprise with no perception or wisdom is ridiculous.
there’s also the interesting tidbit that out of the over 2000 creatures in dnd5e, like 30-40 have an initiative bonus higher than +3
So, I'm looking to make some builds that center around high initiative for my Youtube Channel (The Attic Dungeon, go check it out!) and I'm looking at races that provide some bonus to initiative. I'm not looking at ability score increases granted by the race, Tasha has made that pretty irrelevant. So far all I can think off is Halfing's luck to reroll 1s on initiative. Am I missing something or is there really no race that boosts initative in even the slightest way outside of AS bonuses?
Thanks for any help.
No races boost initiative. With that said, variant human gives a feat at level 1, which could be used to take Alert. Obviously, this isn't quite the same, but that race is the only way to get Alert at 1st level, so it's something, at least.
Yeah, that's what I figured. I've already calculated grabbing Alert at lvl 4 ASI to hopefully have a race that boosts the initiative, but the Halfling luck seems to be the only non var-human thing out there.
Any race with a +2 bonus to Dexterity guarantees a higher Initiative than a race which doesn't. Having said that, with Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, any race can now have a +2. You can also create custom lineages, or use the Variant Human (if allowed), to create a character with +5 to their Initiative; courtesy of the Alert feat.
If you're using the variant Speed Factor Initiative found in the DMG, then Small races (gnomes, halflings, etc) also gain a bonus.
And in case you didn't know it, bards get a bonus on initiative rolls due to Jack-of-all-Trades. I know you asked about races, but in case you were going all out for initiative, a bard does offer a plus.
I love bards, but I would never play a bard to get an initiative bonus.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
There are multiple classes that give initiative bonus, or advantage to initiative, but I think the goal of the original question was to find a race that could stack with the class. (Which could then stack with a feat, then with high ability score, then magic item) Kind of like all the "DPR max builds" but with initiative.
Ye you got the gist right. Already got all the feats/bard tricks in the build. It's even going to be a valour/sword Bard/rogue swashbuckler build so I can add Cha to initiative as well and sneak attack will have it's uses as well. Alert already in the build too.
A bit sad that initative is one of the very few things that doesn't receive a bonus from any none Ability score racial bonus whatsoever. O well, thanks for the help :).
fey touched feat to choose the Gift of Alacrity spell as a custom lineage/human variant if you’re already planning to get the alert feat later?
the spell gives a 1d8 to all initiative rolls for 8 hours after being cast.
dip 1 level into twilight domain for a lot of goodies, including giving yourself advantage on the next initiative roll.
Been watching this thread a few days, and out of curiosity, what's the initiative bonus looking like so far?
Pretty sure I saw another in another thread that it's theoretically possible to get +100. It might even be higher now with Watchers Paladin and other newer subclasses/spells/feats. You'd need all stats to 30 - but even without that it's easy to get anywhere from +20-50.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Unlike most other features or strategies in 5th edition that reward further investment into specific strategies, bonuses to initiative have diminished returns after certain bonuses. Adding damage or accuracy to each subsequent attack you make can have large impacts on a creatures impact because those numbers of attacks usually scale. The bonus to initiative is different though, as after a certain threshold it doesn’t matter how high your initiative is, you still only get to take your turn first and cement your place ahead in the initiative order.
the alert feat is the most bang you’re going to get for you buck. It’s a static +5 regardless of your other features, which is incredibly potent since the vast majority of creatures you’re fighting may not have more than a +3 due to dexterity. There are also several classes that boost initiative by other mod which add to your dexterity bonus too. The supplemental and even stronger effect of the alert feat is that you can’t be surprised, regardless of your wisdom and perception score.
id venture to say that this if a party decided to collectively take the alert feat, and one of those members happened to be a watcher paladin, then your party and its action economy would be insane and therefore punching much higher above their weight class than another similar party.
it’s almost like your entire party is guaranteed an extra turn each battle.
No race or class or background gives a boost to initiative. However, Variant Humans can take the Alert feat at first level. Additionally, your initiative modifier is, by default, equal to your DEX modifier. So a DEX based character is often the first to act in an encounter.
Note, I say the initiative modifier is equal to the DEX modifier, which is true. But there are other ways of increasing one modifier, but not the other, such as feats. But with standard leveling and no special features, Initiative = DEX.
Ah, but do you have the War Magic trick?
Technically being a halfling adds an average of 0.475 to your initiative, because the Lucky trait applies to initiative (5% chance to reroll, averaging +9.5).
This can be easy now with the Harengan.
go 1 level fighter or cleric that is proficient in heavy armor.
str 8, Dex 16, con 8, int 16, wis 16, cha 8.
go 4 levels ranger (gloomstalker) ASI feat Alert.
2 levels war wizard. level 7 19 initiative.
why heavy armor? You will need to take a resistance potion or something to get the armor on but scorpion Armor adds +5 initiative, ioun stone of mastery that gives +1 to proficiency bonus, stone of luck for +1.
Tome and manuals of int/wis/dex and go fighter for the extra ASI’s gets your primary stats to 22 each 6+6+6+7 (prof bonus)+ 5 alert, +5 scorpion armor+1 stone of luck I think is +36 initiative
I think you could scrap wizard and go swash buckler with cha too. And I think the black dragon mask adds cha to initiative.
The Wild Beyond The Witchlight introduced the Harengon as a playable race(the rabbitfolk race from an earlier Fey-themed Unearthed Arcana). One of their racial abilities is "Hare-Trigger" which lets them add their proficiency bonus to Initiative rolls. Which has me very curious what they would be like playing Matt Mercer's Gunslinger subclass for Fighters, who also get to add their PB to Initiative roles starting at Level 7. I don't *think* those two abilities would stack, since I'm pretty sure it's in the books somewhere that you only get to add your PB to an ability check once whether it's all, half, double, or whatever. At least, that's how I hope it works because otherwise it could get a little ridiculous :)
What Hare Trigger does work with is the rogue's Reliable Talent. Take Swashbuckler and you're getting PROF+DEX+CHA+10+ by level 11.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
It is a law of diminishing returns. With +15 you will usually always go first, with +20 it will be very rare not to go first anything more than about 25 you will always go first.
I remember the rule about only adding proficiency once as well, so no that wouldn't stack .As stated it does work with features that add an ability score to your initiative ( war wizard, swashbuckler).
The diminishing returns comes from the opportunity cost(feats and class levels) of gaining initiative bonuses vs how reliable the initiative bonus is.
chronomancy wizard with gift of alacrity seems to be the “best” for how hugh its average can get without feats or multiclassing, though this effects only that wizard.
a lore bard is actually very nice too, but with the added effect that cutting words can potentially be used against a tough enemy when initiative is rolled. This is effectively similar to the oath of the watchers aura in that it can effect your whole parties initiative, but available at level 3.
the alert feat becomes pretty amazing, but it effects one player, costs a feat. +5 initiative, useful defensive buffs in obscurity, and the ability to be completely immune to surprise with no perception or wisdom is ridiculous.
there’s also the interesting tidbit that out of the over 2000 creatures in dnd5e, like 30-40 have an initiative bonus higher than +3