Halflings don't HAVE to reroll. They can if they like, but they don't have to. And frankly being covered from critical failure feels like it's worth not having as much access to a feature meant to provide a cushion against critical failure.
They could create a sorcerer subclass that has a fighting style then give both bladesinger and hexblade a fighting style so each has a subclass, that would mean putting them all in PHB... But I do think if they went that route, they should also adjust them, since full caster+martial is kinda extremely overpowered. So have them lose a level of spell progression every 5th level or something.
I am not sure that a Fighting style is worth losing 4 caster levels. It just isn't that strong of a feature.
It wouldn't be just a fighting style tho, since it's a subclass that'll get other features. Like bladesong or hex warrior and Extra Attack or Thirsting Blade. So I was meaning as a more in general for the whole martial + spell caster thing.
Divination and Transmutation….. got nothing. Might work better mixing conjuration with divination making a planar magic user.
Conjuration/Necromancy and Transmutation can be an Alchemist. As in, the cool alchemists that can summon and transmute stuff, and create full-fledged homunculi, and go through a whole process to create the Philosopher's Stone.
I like that. Necromancy with Transmutation, Conjuration with Divination. Sounds perfect to me.
I wouldn't be surprised if Paladin was a Warrior class while Monk was a Priest class, to be honest. Even if Monks are mostly about punching people.
I would be surprised if the one other class besides Cleric that gets Channel Divinity is not a Priest class.
If you consider druidic shapeshifting to be a kind of divine channeling....
I've been wanting Wildshape to become more like Channel Divinity for awhile now. They've moved more towards the subclasses granting different uses for Wildshape, especially in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, but making Druids be a "Priest" class would make it so this could be unified even further.
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Paladin is a spiritual connection with yourself. That's exactly what an "Oath" is. You make a promise that, so long as you keep, gives you Divine Magic. And Ki is less spiritual than just another type of Warrior Class stamina feature that they get to expend to do "maneuvers" (like Battlemaster Maneuvers and Barbarian Rage).
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I'm in general against nerfing classes, sure specific spells a class might have may need it or something but the class in general no. But bard is up there as one of the best classes in the game I'd say either bard or wizard is top dog in 5e, so if the bard is not nerfed at all when looking at just 3 classes rogue and ranger will need some serious boosting to look on par with the bard, post tashas ranger is a solid class but its still no bard and the rogue is actually on the weak side so it really needs something. And ideally for me that is what would happen, but nerfs are just easier so I would not be surprised if we see that.
What does everyone think that the unifying theme amongst the class groups will be? We already know that all Experts (probably excluding Artificers) will get Expertise, but what will the other class groups get? Here's my current best guess:
Warriors - Fighting Styles and/or Battlemaster Maneuvers. I hope both, but knowing Wizards of the Coast, they'll probably just give them Fighting Styles. However, Barbarians and Monks getting Fighting Styles and maybe Battlemaster Maneuvers will be interesting to see, if it happens.
Priests - Channel Divinity. This one is obvious, as Paladins and Clerics already get Channel Divinity, and Druids get a really similar ability (Wildshape). They could also make it so all Druid, Cleric, and Paladin subclassses get automatically prepared spells based on their subclass (which is true for all Cleric and Paladin subclasses, but isn't true for a few Druid subclasses).
Mage - Maybe something like the Warlock Pact Boons could work? So Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Wizards all get to choose between being a Gish (Pact of the Blade), Spellcaster+ (Pact of the Tome), Support Spellcaster (Pact of the Talisman), or Pokemon Master (Pact of the Chain)? Or Eldritch Invocations/Metamagic could be what they use to unite the Mages? Or they could say that spellcasting is the thing that all Mages have in common, which would be just bland enough for WotC to do it.
They also could lean into the Ability Scores that these class groups typically focus on. Experts typically focus on Dexterity, Warriors typically focus on Strength, Priests typically focus on Wisdom, and both Warlocks and Sorcerers focus on Charisma.
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I think Bards could work well as Half-Casters. Not Martial Half-Casters like the Paladin and Ranger, but as a more "spell/support-focused Half-Caster" like the Artificer. Then the class could lean more into Bardic Inspiration and its "song" abilities. I doubt that would happen, but I think it could be interesting.
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Given that they mentioned class categories as a way of party building, I suspect classes will be classified by the capabilities they provide to the party, not by the source of their abilities. That probably means:
RIP artificer. Neglected in 5e, and now getting nuked for 6e release.
We're not going to have a single arcane half caster.
Wait until you see what they do to warlocks. It's just a gut feeling, but...
I kinda want both warlock and sorcerer to go half-. But then I like half casters
If we're talking nonsense wish list stuff, I'd like to see warlocks lose spell slots entirely and get all of their spellcasting ability from an expanded selection of eldritch invocations. As stated, it would not affect Mystic Arcanum.
School of magic specialist - Mix and match choices at each class feature level like totem barbarian
Bladesinger
Order of scribes
War magic
Or hey, make dunamancy a thing?
Dunamancy isn't getting added. Wizards of the Coast has to license that, and Hasbro doesn't want to give a cut of every PHB sold to anyone.
If there are only four subclasses per class, and I think that's a big if, then the wizard would be getting four traditions. So would clerics, which means a lot would be left by the wayside. That would piss off more people than it would impress.
What does everyone think that the unifying theme amongst the class groups will be? We already know that all Experts (probably excluding Artificers) will get Expertise, but what will the other class groups get? Here's my current best guess:
Warriors - Fighting Styles and/or Battlemaster Maneuvers. I hope both, but knowing Wizards of the Coast, they'll probably just give them Fighting Styles. However, Barbarians and Monks getting Fighting Styles and maybe Battlemaster Maneuvers will be interesting to see, if it happens.
Priests - Channel Divinity. This one is obvious, as Paladins and Clerics already get Channel Divinity, and Druids get a really similar ability (Wildshape). They could also make it so all Druid, Cleric, and Paladin subclassses get automatically prepared spells based on their subclass (which is true for all Cleric and Paladin subclasses, but isn't true for a few Druid subclasses).
Mage - Maybe something like the Warlock Pact Boons could work? So Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Wizards all get to choose between being a Gish (Pact of the Blade), Spellcaster+ (Pact of the Tome), Support Spellcaster (Pact of the Talisman), or Pokemon Master (Pact of the Chain)? Or Eldritch Invocations/Metamagic could be what they use to unite the Mages? Or they could say that spellcasting is the thing that all Mages have in common, which would be just bland enough for WotC to do it.
They also could lean into the Ability Scores that these class groups typically focus on. Experts typically focus on Dexterity, Warriors typically focus on Strength, Priests typically focus on Wisdom, and both Warlocks and Sorcerers focus on Charisma.
Well, since Experts will get Expertise, by extension Warriors will get Warriorise, Priests will get Priestise, and Mages will get Mageise. ;)
Silliness aside, yes Warriors will likely share an enhanced version Fighting Styles (hopefully with a bit more oomph than the current ones) and Priests will get variations on the 'Channel Divinity' theme.
Mages is the weird one as you say, because there really isn't anything in 5e right now that extends between the various Arcane casters beyond Arcane spells themselves... My first thought is to use School Specializations, and then give Wizards more flavourful subclasses similar to War Magic and Bladesinger.
What does everyone think that the unifying theme amongst the class groups will be? We already know that all Experts (probably excluding Artificers) will get Expertise, but what will the other class groups get?
Earlier, I posted my guess. It was
~ Each warrior (barb, fighter, monk) have some kind of "stamina" effect - ki, rage, superiority/psi/arrow/etc dice
~ Each priest (pally, cleric, druid) has a divine channel effect and are healer-casters.
~ Each mage (warlock, wizard, sorcerer) got access to unique spells like Counterspell and some version of meta-magic effects (wizard as subclass features, sorcerer as base class picks, warlock as invocations)
Fighting Styles were held by the Fighter (warrior), Paladin (priest), and Ranger (expert) - just missing a mage Fighting Style type, and we will have one of each. I feel that's more likely than all warriors getting fighting styles, given how spread out it is.
They also could lean into the Ability Scores that these class groups typically focus on. Experts typically focus on Dexterity, Warriors typically focus on Strength, Priests typically focus on Wisdom, and both Warlocks and Sorcerers focus on Charisma.
Bards are an expert and they're Charisma, Monk is a warrior and they're Dexterity, Paladins are priests with Strength/Charisma, and Wizards are Intelligence versus Charisma (and there may be an option for Sorcerers or Warlocks to go Intelligence too, given the presence of bookish and psionic types in both). The stats are just too everywhere for this to make sense for me. Sorry
What does everyone think that the unifying theme amongst the class groups will be? We already know that all Experts (probably excluding Artificers) will get Expertise, but what will the other class groups get? Here's my current best guess:
If you count double proficiency, PHB rangers and Artificers actually do get expertise. (Favored terrain and tool expertise.)
I keep hearing people say rangers never got expertise but actually they got it in more possible skills but less situationally. this is why i disliked Tasha's as I never knew which skills would be adventure relevant. (yes lots will disagree)
More importantly I am curious how it will be implemented Currently we have rouge that started with 2, bard that started with 3 and ranger that got it situationally. will these differences remain or be standardized? questions for tomorrow.
I wouldn't be surprised if Paladin was a Warrior class while Monk was a Priest class, to be honest. Even if Monks are mostly about punching people.
I would be surprised if the one other class besides Cleric that gets Channel Divinity is not a Priest class.
Pallys we’re a Warrior subclass in 2e.
Crazier things have happened. Weren't sorcerers originally half casters early in the D&D Next playtest?
No. Neither the Sorcerer nor the Warlock were half casters in the D&D Next playtest. At least not really. Technically Wizard and Cleric get a 3rd level spell slot at 5th level while Sorcerer didn't, but that isn't a half-caster but more like harkening back to 3.x where Sorcerer always gained a new spell level a level behind Wizards.
At the time the Sorcerer and Warlock came out the playtest only went up to 5 levels, they were removed from the playtest before it went beyond 5 levels and only returned at the very end of the playtest in their near finalized versions when it was no longer possible for us to give feedback, which yes means those two classes were not playtested before release.
At the time the Sorcerer got full spellcasting, comparable to a Wizard, but did not have spell slots. Instead they had Willpower which worked like the Spell Point Variant in the DMG. It gave them more flexibility. There was only one subclass in the playtest, the Dragon Bloodline, and as they used Willpower their body changed, gaining first claws and an imposing form and later scales, granting them a bonus to melee damage and resistance to their element respectively. At certain levels they gained abilities that could also be "cast" using Willpower. The Dragon Bloodline got more hit points than base sorcerers, as well as proficiency with armor and martial weapons, the suggested build had chainmail and a greatsword and some people freaked out about a spellcaster with armor and weapons, even though Clerics exist and people made Dwarf Wizards in the final version of the game to accomplish just that. We never got to see the other subclass options they would have made, but clearly they would not have been melee bruisers like the Dragon. I really would have liked to see this version of the Sorcerer grow and progress through the playtest, and likely would have preferred something built off this to what we eventually got.
At the time the Warlock had no spellcasting, as should be the case a Warlock is not an actual spellcaster, and had a Patron. Used Int instead of Cha, weird right? They have Patron's Gift which is kind of like the precursor to the 5e Warlock short rest recharge spell slots, but not used for spells. Different things could use these. They have Invocations that fall into two categories, Minor which are at will cantrips like Eldritch Blast or Lesser which use a Patron's Gift use to "cast". The Patron grants various abilities as they level, each time they get one of these abilities from the Fey Patron that is shown they get a cosmetic effect and then an activatable ability that may or may not cost a Patron's Gift to use. At 1st level they get Eldritch Blast and 2 other Invocations of their choice. Eldritch Blast was basically a warlock only cantrip starting at 3d6 damage and going up to 4d6 at 3rd level, this was at a time when at will Minor spells/cantrips actually didn't scale at all so the Warlock was the only one with a scaling cantrip. Again I would have liked to see this version of the Warlock grow and progress through the playtest, and probably would have preferred something like this compared to what we eventually got. Of course in 3.x Warlock was one of my two favorite classes and it was all about at will Invocations and Eldritch Blast that can be modified with Invocations, and had no actual spellcasting with spell slots and I was very disappointed in the 5e Warlock because of the lack of focus on at will Invocations and major focus on spells.
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Halflings don't HAVE to reroll. They can if they like, but they don't have to. And frankly being covered from critical failure feels like it's worth not having as much access to a feature meant to provide a cushion against critical failure.
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It wouldn't be just a fighting style tho, since it's a subclass that'll get other features. Like bladesong or hex warrior and Extra Attack or Thirsting Blade. So I was meaning as a more in general for the whole martial + spell caster thing.
I like that. Necromancy with Transmutation, Conjuration with Divination. Sounds perfect to me.
I've been wanting Wildshape to become more like Channel Divinity for awhile now. They've moved more towards the subclasses granting different uses for Wildshape, especially in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, but making Druids be a "Priest" class would make it so this could be unified even further.
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Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Paladin is a spiritual connection with yourself. That's exactly what an "Oath" is. You make a promise that, so long as you keep, gives you Divine Magic. And Ki is less spiritual than just another type of Warrior Class stamina feature that they get to expend to do "maneuvers" (like Battlemaster Maneuvers and Barbarian Rage).
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I just hope they don't nerf bards.
REPENT OF YOUR WICKED WAYS!
(thwacks with spinning high kick)
I'm in general against nerfing classes, sure specific spells a class might have may need it or something but the class in general no. But bard is up there as one of the best classes in the game I'd say either bard or wizard is top dog in 5e, so if the bard is not nerfed at all when looking at just 3 classes rogue and ranger will need some serious boosting to look on par with the bard, post tashas ranger is a solid class but its still no bard and the rogue is actually on the weak side so it really needs something. And ideally for me that is what would happen, but nerfs are just easier so I would not be surprised if we see that.
I kinda want both warlock and sorcerer to go half-. But then I like half casters
What does everyone think that the unifying theme amongst the class groups will be? We already know that all Experts (probably excluding Artificers) will get Expertise, but what will the other class groups get? Here's my current best guess:
They also could lean into the Ability Scores that these class groups typically focus on. Experts typically focus on Dexterity, Warriors typically focus on Strength, Priests typically focus on Wisdom, and both Warlocks and Sorcerers focus on Charisma.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I see it more like:
Evocation + abjuration = battlemage
Enchantment + illusion + divination = mesmer/psychic
Transmutation + conjuration = alchemist
Necromancy = necromancer
As a halfling, you could roll a 1, get your inspiration, then choose to reroll, why not?
I think Bards could work well as Half-Casters. Not Martial Half-Casters like the Paladin and Ranger, but as a more "spell/support-focused Half-Caster" like the Artificer. Then the class could lean more into Bardic Inspiration and its "song" abilities. I doubt that would happen, but I think it could be interesting.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Given that they mentioned class categories as a way of party building, I suspect classes will be classified by the capabilities they provide to the party, not by the source of their abilities. That probably means:
If we're talking nonsense wish list stuff, I'd like to see warlocks lose spell slots entirely and get all of their spellcasting ability from an expanded selection of eldritch invocations. As stated, it would not affect Mystic Arcanum.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Dunamancy isn't getting added. Wizards of the Coast has to license that, and Hasbro doesn't want to give a cut of every PHB sold to anyone.
If there are only four subclasses per class, and I think that's a big if, then the wizard would be getting four traditions. So would clerics, which means a lot would be left by the wayside. That would piss off more people than it would impress.
Well, since Experts will get Expertise, by extension Warriors will get Warriorise, Priests will get Priestise, and Mages will get Mageise. ;)
Silliness aside, yes Warriors will likely share an enhanced version Fighting Styles (hopefully with a bit more oomph than the current ones) and Priests will get variations on the 'Channel Divinity' theme.
Mages is the weird one as you say, because there really isn't anything in 5e right now that extends between the various Arcane casters beyond Arcane spells themselves... My first thought is to use School Specializations, and then give Wizards more flavourful subclasses similar to War Magic and Bladesinger.
Earlier, I posted my guess. It was
~ Each warrior (barb, fighter, monk) have some kind of "stamina" effect - ki, rage, superiority/psi/arrow/etc dice
~ Each priest (pally, cleric, druid) has a divine channel effect and are healer-casters.
~ Each mage (warlock, wizard, sorcerer) got access to unique spells like Counterspell and some version of meta-magic effects (wizard as subclass features, sorcerer as base class picks, warlock as invocations)
Fighting Styles were held by the Fighter (warrior), Paladin (priest), and Ranger (expert) - just missing a mage Fighting Style type, and we will have one of each. I feel that's more likely than all warriors getting fighting styles, given how spread out it is.
Bards are an expert and they're Charisma, Monk is a warrior and they're Dexterity, Paladins are priests with Strength/Charisma, and Wizards are Intelligence versus Charisma (and there may be an option for Sorcerers or Warlocks to go Intelligence too, given the presence of bookish and psionic types in both). The stats are just too everywhere for this to make sense for me. Sorry
If you count double proficiency, PHB rangers and Artificers actually do get expertise. (Favored terrain and tool expertise.)
I keep hearing people say rangers never got expertise but actually they got it in more possible skills but less situationally. this is why i disliked Tasha's as I never knew which skills would be adventure relevant. (yes lots will disagree)
More importantly I am curious how it will be implemented Currently we have rouge that started with 2, bard that started with 3 and ranger that got it situationally. will these differences remain or be standardized? questions for tomorrow.
No. Neither the Sorcerer nor the Warlock were half casters in the D&D Next playtest. At least not really. Technically Wizard and Cleric get a 3rd level spell slot at 5th level while Sorcerer didn't, but that isn't a half-caster but more like harkening back to 3.x where Sorcerer always gained a new spell level a level behind Wizards.
At the time the Sorcerer and Warlock came out the playtest only went up to 5 levels, they were removed from the playtest before it went beyond 5 levels and only returned at the very end of the playtest in their near finalized versions when it was no longer possible for us to give feedback, which yes means those two classes were not playtested before release.
At the time the Sorcerer got full spellcasting, comparable to a Wizard, but did not have spell slots. Instead they had Willpower which worked like the Spell Point Variant in the DMG. It gave them more flexibility. There was only one subclass in the playtest, the Dragon Bloodline, and as they used Willpower their body changed, gaining first claws and an imposing form and later scales, granting them a bonus to melee damage and resistance to their element respectively. At certain levels they gained abilities that could also be "cast" using Willpower. The Dragon Bloodline got more hit points than base sorcerers, as well as proficiency with armor and martial weapons, the suggested build had chainmail and a greatsword and some people freaked out about a spellcaster with armor and weapons, even though Clerics exist and people made Dwarf Wizards in the final version of the game to accomplish just that. We never got to see the other subclass options they would have made, but clearly they would not have been melee bruisers like the Dragon. I really would have liked to see this version of the Sorcerer grow and progress through the playtest, and likely would have preferred something built off this to what we eventually got.
At the time the Warlock had no spellcasting, as should be the case a Warlock is not an actual spellcaster, and had a Patron. Used Int instead of Cha, weird right? They have Patron's Gift which is kind of like the precursor to the 5e Warlock short rest recharge spell slots, but not used for spells. Different things could use these. They have Invocations that fall into two categories, Minor which are at will cantrips like Eldritch Blast or Lesser which use a Patron's Gift use to "cast". The Patron grants various abilities as they level, each time they get one of these abilities from the Fey Patron that is shown they get a cosmetic effect and then an activatable ability that may or may not cost a Patron's Gift to use. At 1st level they get Eldritch Blast and 2 other Invocations of their choice. Eldritch Blast was basically a warlock only cantrip starting at 3d6 damage and going up to 4d6 at 3rd level, this was at a time when at will Minor spells/cantrips actually didn't scale at all so the Warlock was the only one with a scaling cantrip. Again I would have liked to see this version of the Warlock grow and progress through the playtest, and probably would have preferred something like this compared to what we eventually got. Of course in 3.x Warlock was one of my two favorite classes and it was all about at will Invocations and Eldritch Blast that can be modified with Invocations, and had no actual spellcasting with spell slots and I was very disappointed in the 5e Warlock because of the lack of focus on at will Invocations and major focus on spells.