What does everyone think that the unifying theme amongst the class groups will be? We already know that all Experts (probably excluding Artificers) will get Expertise, but what will the other class groups get? Here's my current best guess:
Warriors - Fighting Styles and/or Battlemaster Maneuvers. I hope both, but knowing Wizards of the Coast, they'll probably just give them Fighting Styles. However, Barbarians and Monks getting Fighting Styles and maybe Battlemaster Maneuvers will be interesting to see, if it happens.
Priests - Channel Divinity. This one is obvious, as Paladins and Clerics already get Channel Divinity, and Druids get a really similar ability (Wildshape). They could also make it so all Druid, Cleric, and Paladin subclassses get automatically prepared spells based on their subclass (which is true for all Cleric and Paladin subclasses, but isn't true for a few Druid subclasses).
Mage - Maybe something like the Warlock Pact Boons could work? So Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Wizards all get to choose between being a Gish (Pact of the Blade), Spellcaster+ (Pact of the Tome), Support Spellcaster (Pact of the Talisman), or Pokemon Master (Pact of the Chain)? Or Eldritch Invocations/Metamagic could be what they use to unite the Mages? Or they could say that spellcasting is the thing that all Mages have in common, which would be just bland enough for WotC to do it.
They also could lean into the Ability Scores that these class groups typically focus on. Experts typically focus on Dexterity, Warriors typically focus on Strength, Priests typically focus on Wisdom, and both Warlocks and Sorcerers focus on Charisma.
Well, since Experts will get Expertise, by extension Warriors will get Warriorise, Priests will get Priestise, and Mages will get Mageise. ;)
Silliness aside, yes Warriors will likely share an enhanced version Fighting Styles (hopefully with a bit more oomph than the current ones) and Priests will get variations on the 'Channel Divinity' theme.
Mages is the weird one as you say, because there really isn't anything in 5e right now that extends between the various Arcane casters beyond Arcane spells themselves... My first thought is to use School Specializations, and then give Wizards more flavourful subclasses similar to War Magic and Bladesinger.
What does everyone think that the unifying theme amongst the class groups will be? We already know that all Experts (probably excluding Artificers) will get Expertise, but what will the other class groups get?
Earlier, I posted my guess. It was
~ Each warrior (barb, fighter, monk) have some kind of "stamina" effect - ki, rage, superiority/psi/arrow/etc dice
~ Each priest (pally, cleric, druid) has a divine channel effect and are healer-casters.
~ Each mage (warlock, wizard, sorcerer) got access to unique spells like Counterspell and some version of meta-magic effects (wizard as subclass features, sorcerer as base class picks, warlock as invocations)
Fighting Styles were held by the Fighter (warrior), Paladin (priest), and Ranger (expert) - just missing a mage Fighting Style type, and we will have one of each. I feel that's more likely than all warriors getting fighting styles, given how spread out it is.
They also could lean into the Ability Scores that these class groups typically focus on. Experts typically focus on Dexterity, Warriors typically focus on Strength, Priests typically focus on Wisdom, and both Warlocks and Sorcerers focus on Charisma.
Bards are an expert and they're Charisma, Monk is a warrior and they're Dexterity, Paladins are priests with Strength/Charisma, and Wizards are Intelligence versus Charisma (and there may be an option for Sorcerers or Warlocks to go Intelligence too, given the presence of bookish and psionic types in both). The stats are just too everywhere for this to make sense for me. Sorry
What does everyone think that the unifying theme amongst the class groups will be? We already know that all Experts (probably excluding Artificers) will get Expertise, but what will the other class groups get? Here's my current best guess:
If you count double proficiency, PHB rangers and Artificers actually do get expertise. (Favored terrain and tool expertise.)
I keep hearing people say rangers never got expertise but actually they got it in more possible skills but less situationally. this is why i disliked Tasha's as I never knew which skills would be adventure relevant. (yes lots will disagree)
More importantly I am curious how it will be implemented Currently we have rouge that started with 2, bard that started with 3 and ranger that got it situationally. will these differences remain or be standardized? questions for tomorrow.
I wouldn't be surprised if Paladin was a Warrior class while Monk was a Priest class, to be honest. Even if Monks are mostly about punching people.
I would be surprised if the one other class besides Cleric that gets Channel Divinity is not a Priest class.
Pallys we’re a Warrior subclass in 2e.
Crazier things have happened. Weren't sorcerers originally half casters early in the D&D Next playtest?
No. Neither the Sorcerer nor the Warlock were half casters in the D&D Next playtest. At least not really. Technically Wizard and Cleric get a 3rd level spell slot at 5th level while Sorcerer didn't, but that isn't a half-caster but more like harkening back to 3.x where Sorcerer always gained a new spell level a level behind Wizards.
At the time the Sorcerer and Warlock came out the playtest only went up to 5 levels, they were removed from the playtest before it went beyond 5 levels and only returned at the very end of the playtest in their near finalized versions when it was no longer possible for us to give feedback, which yes means those two classes were not playtested before release.
At the time the Sorcerer got full spellcasting, comparable to a Wizard, but did not have spell slots. Instead they had Willpower which worked like the Spell Point Variant in the DMG. It gave them more flexibility. There was only one subclass in the playtest, the Dragon Bloodline, and as they used Willpower their body changed, gaining first claws and an imposing form and later scales, granting them a bonus to melee damage and resistance to their element respectively. At certain levels they gained abilities that could also be "cast" using Willpower. The Dragon Bloodline got more hit points than base sorcerers, as well as proficiency with armor and martial weapons, the suggested build had chainmail and a greatsword and some people freaked out about a spellcaster with armor and weapons, even though Clerics exist and people made Dwarf Wizards in the final version of the game to accomplish just that. We never got to see the other subclass options they would have made, but clearly they would not have been melee bruisers like the Dragon. I really would have liked to see this version of the Sorcerer grow and progress through the playtest, and likely would have preferred something built off this to what we eventually got.
At the time the Warlock had no spellcasting, as should be the case a Warlock is not an actual spellcaster, and had a Patron. Used Int instead of Cha, weird right? They have Patron's Gift which is kind of like the precursor to the 5e Warlock short rest recharge spell slots, but not used for spells. Different things could use these. They have Invocations that fall into two categories, Minor which are at will cantrips like Eldritch Blast or Lesser which use a Patron's Gift use to "cast". The Patron grants various abilities as they level, each time they get one of these abilities from the Fey Patron that is shown they get a cosmetic effect and then an activatable ability that may or may not cost a Patron's Gift to use. At 1st level they get Eldritch Blast and 2 other Invocations of their choice. Eldritch Blast was basically a warlock only cantrip starting at 3d6 damage and going up to 4d6 at 3rd level, this was at a time when at will Minor spells/cantrips actually didn't scale at all so the Warlock was the only one with a scaling cantrip. Again I would have liked to see this version of the Warlock grow and progress through the playtest, and probably would have preferred something like this compared to what we eventually got. Of course in 3.x Warlock was one of my two favorite classes and it was all about at will Invocations and Eldritch Blast that can be modified with Invocations, and had no actual spellcasting with spell slots and I was very disappointed in the 5e Warlock because of the lack of focus on at will Invocations and major focus on spells.
What does everyone think that the unifying theme amongst the class groups will be? We already know that all Experts (probably excluding Artificers) will get Expertise, but what will the other class groups get?
Earlier, I posted my guess. It was
~ Each warrior (barb, fighter, monk) have some kind of "stamina" effect - ki, rage, superiority/psi/arrow/etc dice
~ Each priest (pally, cleric, druid) has a divine channel effect and are healer-casters.
~ Each mage (warlock, wizard, sorcerer) got access to unique spells like Counterspell and some version of meta-magic effects (wizard as subclass features, sorcerer as base class picks, warlock as invocations)
Fighting Styles were held by the Fighter (warrior), Paladin (priest), and Ranger (expert) - just missing a mage Fighting Style type, and we will have one of each. I feel that's more likely than all warriors getting fighting styles, given how spread out it is.
They also could lean into the Ability Scores that these class groups typically focus on. Experts typically focus on Dexterity, Warriors typically focus on Strength, Priests typically focus on Wisdom, and both Warlocks and Sorcerers focus on Charisma.
Bards are an expert and they're Charisma, Monk is a warrior and they're Dexterity, Paladins are priests with Strength/Charisma, and Wizards are Intelligence versus Charisma (and there may be an option for Sorcerers or Warlocks to go Intelligence too, given the presence of bookish and psionic types in both). The stats are just too everywhere for this to make sense for me. Sorry
If they want a fighting style in each group mages could have magical combat fighting styles. Basically instead of enhancing a style of physical combat it enhances a style of spell casting.
As for halflings (depending on the wording tomorrow), they may get inspiration and still get their re-roll on a nat 1. this seems like a reasonable approach to giving full benefit to Hafling luck while getting the same advantages as everyone else.
As for halflings (depending on the wording tomorrow), they may get inspiration and still get their re-roll on a nat 1. this seems like a reasonable approach to giving full benefit to Hafling luck while getting the same advantages as everyone else.
It would make it a lot stronger, roll get a 1, gain inspiration, re-roll but now you have inspiration so you can use it for advantage all on the same action.
Alright, now that I’ve actually had 20 minutes to sit down and watch the video I agree with everyone who says Paladins will be part of the Priest classes.
I suppose we’ll find out tomorrow. If all 3 of those classes have 4 subclasses, it’s reasonable, though perhaps not certain, that such can be expected for the others
What does everyone think that the unifying theme amongst the class groups will be? We already know that all Experts (probably excluding Artificers) will get Expertise, but what will the other class groups get? Here's my current best guess:
Warriors - Fighting Styles and/or Battlemaster Maneuvers. I hope both, but knowing Wizards of the Coast, they'll probably just give them Fighting Styles. However, Barbarians and Monks getting Fighting Styles and maybe Battlemaster Maneuvers will be interesting to see, if it happens.
Priests - Channel Divinity. This one is obvious, as Paladins and Clerics already get Channel Divinity, and Druids get a really similar ability (Wildshape). They could also make it so all Druid, Cleric, and Paladin subclassses get automatically prepared spells based on their subclass (which is true for all Cleric and Paladin subclasses, but isn't true for a few Druid subclasses).
Mage - Maybe something like the Warlock Pact Boons could work? So Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Wizards all get to choose between being a Gish (Pact of the Blade), Spellcaster+ (Pact of the Tome), Support Spellcaster (Pact of the Talisman), or Pokemon Master (Pact of the Chain)? Or Eldritch Invocations/Metamagic could be what they use to unite the Mages? Or they could say that spellcasting is the thing that all Mages have in common, which would be just bland enough for WotC to do it.
They also could lean into the Ability Scores that these class groups typically focus on. Experts typically focus on Dexterity, Warriors typically focus on Strength, Priests typically focus on Wisdom, and both Warlocks and Sorcerers focus on Charisma.
Well, since Experts will get Expertise, by extension Warriors will get Warriorise, Priests will get Priestise, and Mages will get Mageise. ;)
Silliness aside, yes Warriors will likely share an enhanced version Fighting Styles (hopefully with a bit more oomph than the current ones) and Priests will get variations on the 'Channel Divinity' theme.
Mages is the weird one as you say, because there really isn't anything in 5e right now that extends between the various Arcane casters beyond Arcane spells themselves... My first thought is to use School Specializations, and then give Wizards more flavourful subclasses similar to War Magic and Bladesinger.
I always wanted bladesinger to be a bard thing. Not that I think it will be. I just wanted it to be.
I mean, sword bards are a thing still too. So imagine it. Elves sword bards with singing blades grumbling the wizard knights get to be called blade singers.
I'm not going to watch the actor pretending to be Todd and JC talk to himself again, so did they say one of the groupings will be Priests?
I could see Cleric/Druid/Paladin being more aptly grouped under "Devout" or "Devoted", Priests just connotes a sort of theism that isn't necessarily Druidic and doesn't seem to be fit how the Oaths have been interpreted either.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
to lower the number of Wizard subclasses -- instead of each school having its own subclass. Have a subclass called Specialist and select a school at level 1 and at certain levels get their subclass features based on the school. (Like Warlocks pick a patron)
to lower the number of Wizard subclasses -- instead of each school having its own subclass. Have a subclass called Specialist and select a school at level 1 and at certain levels get their subclass features based on the school. (Like Warlocks pick a patron)
What does everyone think that the unifying theme amongst the class groups will be? We already know that all Experts (probably excluding Artificers) will get Expertise, but what will the other class groups get? Here's my current best guess:
Warriors - Fighting Styles and/or Battlemaster Maneuvers. I hope both, but knowing Wizards of the Coast, they'll probably just give them Fighting Styles. However, Barbarians and Monks getting Fighting Styles and maybe Battlemaster Maneuvers will be interesting to see, if it happens.
Priests - Channel Divinity. This one is obvious, as Paladins and Clerics already get Channel Divinity, and Druids get a really similar ability (Wildshape). They could also make it so all Druid, Cleric, and Paladin subclassses get automatically prepared spells based on their subclass (which is true for all Cleric and Paladin subclasses, but isn't true for a few Druid subclasses).
Mage - Maybe something like the Warlock Pact Boons could work? So Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Wizards all get to choose between being a Gish (Pact of the Blade), Spellcaster+ (Pact of the Tome), Support Spellcaster (Pact of the Talisman), or Pokemon Master (Pact of the Chain)? Or Eldritch Invocations/Metamagic could be what they use to unite the Mages? Or they could say that spellcasting is the thing that all Mages have in common, which would be just bland enough for WotC to do it.
They also could lean into the Ability Scores that these class groups typically focus on. Experts typically focus on Dexterity, Warriors typically focus on Strength, Priests typically focus on Wisdom, and both Warlocks and Sorcerers focus on Charisma.
My guess: Warrior: Fighting style. Priest: Channel divinity. Mage: Magic school affinity / speciality.
One thing mentioned was experts take features from other types. Bardic inspiration is like a channel divinity, rangers get fighting styles, rogues get specialized abilities(stretch for comparison but maybe)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Well, since Experts will get Expertise, by extension Warriors will get Warriorise, Priests will get Priestise, and Mages will get Mageise. ;)
Silliness aside, yes Warriors will likely share an enhanced version Fighting Styles (hopefully with a bit more oomph than the current ones) and Priests will get variations on the 'Channel Divinity' theme.
Mages is the weird one as you say, because there really isn't anything in 5e right now that extends between the various Arcane casters beyond Arcane spells themselves... My first thought is to use School Specializations, and then give Wizards more flavourful subclasses similar to War Magic and Bladesinger.
Earlier, I posted my guess. It was
~ Each warrior (barb, fighter, monk) have some kind of "stamina" effect - ki, rage, superiority/psi/arrow/etc dice
~ Each priest (pally, cleric, druid) has a divine channel effect and are healer-casters.
~ Each mage (warlock, wizard, sorcerer) got access to unique spells like Counterspell and some version of meta-magic effects (wizard as subclass features, sorcerer as base class picks, warlock as invocations)
Fighting Styles were held by the Fighter (warrior), Paladin (priest), and Ranger (expert) - just missing a mage Fighting Style type, and we will have one of each. I feel that's more likely than all warriors getting fighting styles, given how spread out it is.
Bards are an expert and they're Charisma, Monk is a warrior and they're Dexterity, Paladins are priests with Strength/Charisma, and Wizards are Intelligence versus Charisma (and there may be an option for Sorcerers or Warlocks to go Intelligence too, given the presence of bookish and psionic types in both). The stats are just too everywhere for this to make sense for me. Sorry
If you count double proficiency, PHB rangers and Artificers actually do get expertise. (Favored terrain and tool expertise.)
I keep hearing people say rangers never got expertise but actually they got it in more possible skills but less situationally. this is why i disliked Tasha's as I never knew which skills would be adventure relevant. (yes lots will disagree)
More importantly I am curious how it will be implemented Currently we have rouge that started with 2, bard that started with 3 and ranger that got it situationally. will these differences remain or be standardized? questions for tomorrow.
No. Neither the Sorcerer nor the Warlock were half casters in the D&D Next playtest. At least not really. Technically Wizard and Cleric get a 3rd level spell slot at 5th level while Sorcerer didn't, but that isn't a half-caster but more like harkening back to 3.x where Sorcerer always gained a new spell level a level behind Wizards.
At the time the Sorcerer and Warlock came out the playtest only went up to 5 levels, they were removed from the playtest before it went beyond 5 levels and only returned at the very end of the playtest in their near finalized versions when it was no longer possible for us to give feedback, which yes means those two classes were not playtested before release.
At the time the Sorcerer got full spellcasting, comparable to a Wizard, but did not have spell slots. Instead they had Willpower which worked like the Spell Point Variant in the DMG. It gave them more flexibility. There was only one subclass in the playtest, the Dragon Bloodline, and as they used Willpower their body changed, gaining first claws and an imposing form and later scales, granting them a bonus to melee damage and resistance to their element respectively. At certain levels they gained abilities that could also be "cast" using Willpower. The Dragon Bloodline got more hit points than base sorcerers, as well as proficiency with armor and martial weapons, the suggested build had chainmail and a greatsword and some people freaked out about a spellcaster with armor and weapons, even though Clerics exist and people made Dwarf Wizards in the final version of the game to accomplish just that. We never got to see the other subclass options they would have made, but clearly they would not have been melee bruisers like the Dragon. I really would have liked to see this version of the Sorcerer grow and progress through the playtest, and likely would have preferred something built off this to what we eventually got.
At the time the Warlock had no spellcasting, as should be the case a Warlock is not an actual spellcaster, and had a Patron. Used Int instead of Cha, weird right? They have Patron's Gift which is kind of like the precursor to the 5e Warlock short rest recharge spell slots, but not used for spells. Different things could use these. They have Invocations that fall into two categories, Minor which are at will cantrips like Eldritch Blast or Lesser which use a Patron's Gift use to "cast". The Patron grants various abilities as they level, each time they get one of these abilities from the Fey Patron that is shown they get a cosmetic effect and then an activatable ability that may or may not cost a Patron's Gift to use. At 1st level they get Eldritch Blast and 2 other Invocations of their choice. Eldritch Blast was basically a warlock only cantrip starting at 3d6 damage and going up to 4d6 at 3rd level, this was at a time when at will Minor spells/cantrips actually didn't scale at all so the Warlock was the only one with a scaling cantrip. Again I would have liked to see this version of the Warlock grow and progress through the playtest, and probably would have preferred something like this compared to what we eventually got. Of course in 3.x Warlock was one of my two favorite classes and it was all about at will Invocations and Eldritch Blast that can be modified with Invocations, and had no actual spellcasting with spell slots and I was very disappointed in the 5e Warlock because of the lack of focus on at will Invocations and major focus on spells.
If they want a fighting style in each group mages could have magical combat fighting styles. Basically instead of enhancing a style of physical combat it enhances a style of spell casting.
As for halflings (depending on the wording tomorrow), they may get inspiration and still get their re-roll on a nat 1. this seems like a reasonable approach to giving full benefit to Hafling luck while getting the same advantages as everyone else.
It would make it a lot stronger, roll get a 1, gain inspiration, re-roll but now you have inspiration so you can use it for advantage all on the same action.
Yeah, I'd be totally fine with bringing the other classes into closer parity.
It makes them easier to balance, and thus easier to design new classes (which is how 4e had so many classes).
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Alright, now that I’ve actually had 20 minutes to sit down and watch the video I agree with everyone who says Paladins will be part of the Priest classes.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
I suppose we’ll find out tomorrow. If all 3 of those classes have 4 subclasses, it’s reasonable, though perhaps not certain, that such can be expected for the others
I always wanted bladesinger to be a bard thing. Not that I think it will be. I just wanted it to be.
I mean, sword bards are a thing still too. So imagine it. Elves sword bards with singing blades grumbling the wizard knights get to be called blade singers.
I'm not going to watch the actor pretending to be Todd and JC talk to himself again, so did they say one of the groupings will be Priests?
I could see Cleric/Druid/Paladin being more aptly grouped under "Devout" or "Devoted", Priests just connotes a sort of theism that isn't necessarily Druidic and doesn't seem to be fit how the Oaths have been interpreted either.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
A paladin without divinity is just a fighter who made a promise.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Wow. What a turn of phrase. Well done.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
to lower the number of Wizard subclasses -- instead of each school having its own subclass. Have a subclass called Specialist and select a school at level 1 and at certain levels get their subclass features based on the school. (Like Warlocks pick a patron)
Warlock Patrons are subclasses.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
My guess:
Warrior: Fighting style.
Priest: Channel divinity.
Mage: Magic school affinity / speciality.
One thing mentioned was experts take features from other types. Bardic inspiration is like a channel divinity, rangers get fighting styles, rogues get specialized abilities(stretch for comparison but maybe)