Everyone who has ever played a Warlock has lamented the fact that they get so few Cantrips when they’re the ones that arguably need them the most. I don’t think anyone would say the Warlock’s Cantrip pool shouldn’t scale from 3-5 instead of 2-4.
Many would (and do) argue that having to concentrate on Hex invalidates over half their already extremely limited spell list since more than half their spells require concentration. To be competitive though, they kindof have to cast Hex since it’s “their thing.” The other main thing warlock players lament is that the don’t have enough spell slots without multiple lunch breaks per day, since they end up spending them on Hex all the time.
This proposed idea would free up not only their Concentration, but also their need to spend spell their already extremely limited resource pool to do the one thing they are absolutely going to do anyway, usually to the exclusion of all else.
Before I thought this up my idea was that they should get one spell slot per long rest in addition to their usual pool, and another at 11th-level. I just thought this idea might solve both problems with one feature that took inspiration from what WotC suggests to “fix” the Ranger.
“Everyone”
1st word you say.
i play warlocks plenty. And I have NEVER LAMENTED the lack of cantrips. And if I wanted more. There’s pact of the tome.
Favored Foe was made because Favored Enemy is one of the most universally loathed features in the game ("why doesn't this let you do more damage" is one of the most common complaints I hear about the ranger). In addition, it is generally agreed that the PHB ranger is seriously underpowered, and because almost all of their spells are concentration, Hunters Mark requiring concentration and slots don't fit well, if they want to cast other spells. Warlock does not actually suffer this problem, it is absolutely possible to make a warlock build without hex (excluding powergamers I dont know if I have ever seen one with hex in my experience). Unlike Eldritch blast, which is absolutely needed. And is also an at will cantrip. If you wanted to give warlocks eldritch blast for free, leaving them with an extra cantrip, I'd be fine with that.
So you're saying that warlocks don't need Hex, but they do need eldritch blast?
How does this make sense? Saying that a class depends on a single spell or two is very limiting. I have never seen a warlock without eldritch blast, but I have seen warlocks that don't use it that often (hexblades).
Also, if you take eldritch blast and don't take hex, you are doing something wrong as a warlock. One of the things that makes warlocks so good at dealing damage at later levels is the fact that they can Hex and then eldritch blast the same target multiple times in around with 14 (1d10 force + 1d6 necrotic + 5 damage) on each blast, and still knock people around. Hex lets you do tons of damage if you have a bunch of attacks.
Also, warlocks can be totally viable without taking eldritch blast or hex. They have other good spells, but not many as good as hex and eldritch blast.
I would possibly allow a warlock to get a free hex, not eldritch blast, because hex is used not only for eldritch blast, but for hexblades and other damaging spells, and I do find it as essential to the Warlock class as Hunter's Mark is to the ranger.
I have made a warlock without eldritch blast before.
Favored Foe was made because Favored Enemy is one of the most universally loathed features in the game ("why doesn't this let you do more damage" is one of the most common complaints I hear about the ranger). In addition, it is generally agreed that the PHB ranger is seriously underpowered, and because almost all of their spells are concentration, Hunters Mark requiring concentration and slots don't fit well, if they want to cast other spells. Warlock does not actually suffer this problem, it is absolutely possible to make a warlock build without hex (excluding powergamers I dont know if I have ever seen one with hex in my experience). Unlike Eldritch blast, which is absolutely needed. And is also an at will cantrip. If you wanted to give warlocks eldritch blast for free, leaving them with an extra cantrip, I'd be fine with that.
So you're saying that warlocks don't need Hex, but they do need eldritch blast?
How does this make sense? Saying that a class depends on a single spell or two is very limiting. I have never seen a warlock without eldritch blast, but I have seen warlocks that don't use it that often (hexblades).
Also, if you take eldritch blast and don't take hex, you are doing something wrong as a warlock. One of the things that makes warlocks so good at dealing damage at later levels is the fact that they can Hex and then eldritch blast the same target multiple times in around with 14 (1d10 force + 1d6 necrotic + 5 damage) on each blast, and still knock people around. Hex lets you do tons of damage if you have a bunch of attacks.
Also, warlocks can be totally viable without taking eldritch blast or hex. They have other good spells, but not many as good as hex and eldritch blast.
I would possibly allow a warlock to get a free hex, not eldritch blast, because hex is used not only for eldritch blast, but for hexblades and other damaging spells, and I do find it as essential to the Warlock class as Hunter's Mark is to the ranger.
I have made a warlock without eldritch blast before.
Yes, that's my point. You don't need Hex or Eldritch blast to be a good warlock. Rangers arguably need hunter's mark more than Warlocks need hex. You don't need eldritch blast or hex, though they are very very commonly chosen.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Like i said, the way it appears is you have more of a problem with the Spell EB rather than warlocks Relying on it so heavily. So you are saying since they do use it so much, force other people to become warlocks too. A spell is a Spell is a spell. It does not matter if you get it for free by being a warlock, or if you pick it as a cantrip. It is a SPELL. Meaning anyone still would get access to it via magic initiate.
You want to make it an exclusive function like wildshape for a druid? Ok well, theres drawbacks to that, and you severely weakened Warlock now because of it. Because you made it a very integral part of their Kit, and if they dont use it then its a waste similar to that of features that are going on in Base ranger at the moment.
There is a reason why Warlocks are the only class to UPGRADE EB, its because that is part of their thing. They get a invocation, a gift from their Patron empowering different things, one of those things is a very simple spell to make it stronger. Do other classes get those options? No they don't. Only warlock does.
Like i stated earlier.. I see your problem as more an issue with the Cantrip Eldritch Blast rather than figuring something out for warlock to do that's balanced and fair for everyone else.
Okay, let’s dissect this.
1) If it becomes a class feature instead of a spell, then it stops being a spell, so while a spell is a spell is a spell, EB would no longer be a spell, meaning nobody would have access to it via magic initiate.
2) Gaining EB as a class feature, thereby freeing up 1 sorely needed Cantrip Known weakens the Warlock? That’s like saying giving them free cream and sugar weakens Starbucks’ customers. I honestly don’t even know how to respond to that. Does automatically giving Rogues Sneak Attack make them weaker? Does automatically including Rage make Barbarians weaker? Does automatically giving Monk’s Martial Arts make them weaker? Let Eldritch Blast be the Warlocks’ “thing.” It was clearly intended to be, since the Warlock’s is the only spell list upon which it appears.
3) The reason are the only class able to upgrade EB, is because outside of that, nobody can upgrade their Cantrips. The reason this one-and-only class can upgrade that one-and-only Cantrip is because EB is already a “very integral part of their Kit” as part of the class by design. Can you make a Warlock and not take EB? Sure. But also there goes all purpose to almost a 1/2 dozen Invocations. Can you make a fighter who only uses simple weapons? Sure. What percentage of players have though?
4) Suggesting that EB should be a special thing just for Warlocks, a thing that not every character with access to Light and an ASI can copy poorly, that convinces you that I hate the spell? I don’t hate EB, I hate that everybody and their mother tries to bite off Warlocks‘ style like wannabes. They wannabe a Warlock that bad, let ‘em spend the level. Don’t wanna spend that level and slow down other character progressions? Then feel free to take any one of the myriad other DD Cantrips, there are plenty to choose from after all.
The only issue I have with EB is that it is so often abused. I have a Variant Human Trickery Cleric in the campaign I DM because the player wanted EB so bad that it defined that player’s entire choice of character race just so he could take Spell Sniper, even though it makes absolutely no sense for the character. Not one single player in existence goes Variant Human + Spell Sniper and takes, say, Produce Flame (the Druids only Cantrip), or any other spell for that matter, just EB. If they do take a different spell, it’s only because that character already has EB. None of that however has any relevance to the topic at hand however.
I want the Warlock to feel more special. I want them to feel as useful as all the full casters get to feel. Instead, it feels like a Warlocks are the other children’s handicapable classmates, and when they got a sweet ass wheelchair with spinners and everything, all the other kids had to go out and get one too, even though they don’t need one!!!
It sounds to me like your problem with my suggestion is that it would prevent you from getting EB for all your characters without having to take levels in Warlock.
To be fair, Produce Flame isn't exactly eligible for Spell Sniper, depending on how the clause "You learn one cantrip that requires an attack roll." is interpreted. Unlike other "attack spells", you can cast Produce Flame without making an attack. Therefore it doesn't require an attack roll and would be ineligible. If you focus on the part where the attack aspect does require an attack roll, it could be eligible then.
However, it could be very thematic to have a Tiefling Fiendlock eschew EB in favor of Fire Bolt, choose Flames of Phlegethos racial feat and then Produce Flame for Spell Sniper (assuming it was allowed) because spell sniper would boost Fire Bolt and Produce Flame would combo well with the third bullet of Flames of Phlegethos in moments where you wanted the fire wreathing you but you don't want to make an attack.
I'm disappointed that when I went to build this, Fire Bolt wasn't on the list. To get the fire damage cantrip, I either needed to go Create Bonfire or Green Flame Blade. Assuming Spell Sniper to get either Fire Bolt or Produce Flame, I'd either have to go Magic Initiate, dip a level in Sorcerer or Druid, or go Tomelock to get the other. Considering that I'm already planning on Flames of Phlegethos and Spell Sniper plus looking hard at Elemental Adept Fire, Magic Initiate is a no go. The dip could be interesting, but I'm now understanding better why people are saying that Tomelock is almost a given.
I'm also better understanding why people feel that Eldritch Blast is such a given. It's not just that it's a great damaging cantrip particularly when invocations are involved, but it's competitors aren't always going to feel that itch. I like Toll the Dead, but the flavor doesn't scream Warlock to me. It does fill that blaster niche to some extent, but lacks the ability to crit.
Favored Foe was made because Favored Enemy is one of the most universally loathed features in the game ("why doesn't this let you do more damage" is one of the most common complaints I hear about the ranger). In addition, it is generally agreed that the PHB ranger is seriously underpowered, and because almost all of their spells are concentration, Hunters Mark requiring concentration and slots don't fit well, if they want to cast other spells. Warlock does not actually suffer this problem, it is absolutely possible to make a warlock build without hex (excluding powergamers I dont know if I have ever seen one with hex in my experience). Unlike Eldritch blast, which is absolutely needed. And is also an at will cantrip. If you wanted to give warlocks eldritch blast for free, leaving them with an extra cantrip, I'd be fine with that.
So you're saying that warlocks don't need Hex, but they do need eldritch blast?
How does this make sense? Saying that a class depends on a single spell or two is very limiting. I have never seen a warlock without eldritch blast, but I have seen warlocks that don't use it that often (hexblades).
Also, if you take eldritch blast and don't take hex, you are doing something wrong as a warlock. One of the things that makes warlocks so good at dealing damage at later levels is the fact that they can Hex and then eldritch blast the same target multiple times in around with 14 (1d10 force + 1d6 necrotic + 5 damage) on each blast, and still knock people around. Hex lets you do tons of damage if you have a bunch of attacks.
Also, warlocks can be totally viable without taking eldritch blast or hex. They have other good spells, but not many as good as hex and eldritch blast.
I would possibly allow a warlock to get a free hex, not eldritch blast, because hex is used not only for eldritch blast, but for hexblades and other damaging spells, and I do find it as essential to the Warlock class as Hunter's Mark is to the ranger.
I have made a warlock without eldritch blast before.
Yes, that's my point. You don't need Hex or Eldritch blast to be a good warlock. Rangers arguably need hunter's mark more than Warlocks need hex. You don't need eldritch blast or hex, though they are very very commonly chosen.
The options around Hex just feel so lackluster considering the limited number of spell slots available, at least with 1st level spells. Yes, I know, short rest... more slots... yadda yadda... many more of those options make sense if I'm planning on Tomelock + Book of Ancient Secrets. The options do get better at 2nd level spells, and I haven't bothered looking at the rest yet.
As such, a warlock will either make a very flavorful but potentially minimal impact choice, a utility choice (that likely won't be used until Book of Ancient Secrets or right before a rest), or save for Expeditious Retreat as an Oh Crap button. Otherwise, cast hex, save for the next hex unless those short rests are coming like an out of shape middle aged person trying to complete a moderately steep hike (also known as me).
The options around Hex just feel so lackluster considering the limited number of spell slots available, at least with 1st level spells. Yes, I know, short rest... more slots... yadda yadda... many more of those options make sense if I'm planning on Tomelock + Book of Ancient Secrets. The options do get better at 2nd level spells, and I haven't bothered looking at the rest yet.
As such, a warlock will either make a very flavorful but potentially minimal impact choice, a utility choice (that likely won't be used until Book of Ancient Secrets or right before a rest), or save for Expeditious Retreat as an Oh Crap button. Otherwise, cast hex, save for the next hex unless those short rests are coming like an out of shape middle aged person trying to complete a moderately steep hike (also known as me).
Starting at 6th level, your link to the Celestial allows you to serve as a conduit for radiant energy. You have resistance to radiant damage, and when you cast a spell that deals radiant or fire damage, you can add your Charisma modifier to one radiant or fire damage roll of that spell against one of its targets.
So the question is, what the hell are you reading?
“Everyone”
1st word you say.
i play warlocks plenty. And I have NEVER LAMENTED the lack of cantrips. And if I wanted more. There’s pact of the tome.
Blank
I have made a warlock without eldritch blast before.
Blank
My apologies.
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Nothing to apologize for.
theres a reoccurring and long thread about warlocks and their OP or not OP and etc on the warlock thread.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/class-forums/warlock/37331-is-warlock-just-under-powered
Blank
Thank you.
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Yes, that's my point. You don't need Hex or Eldritch blast to be a good warlock. Rangers arguably need hunter's mark more than Warlocks need hex. You don't need eldritch blast or hex, though they are very very commonly chosen.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
So how did your non EB Warlock hold up in combat?
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I'm disappointed that when I went to build this, Fire Bolt wasn't on the list. To get the fire damage cantrip, I either needed to go Create Bonfire or Green Flame Blade. Assuming Spell Sniper to get either Fire Bolt or Produce Flame, I'd either have to go Magic Initiate, dip a level in Sorcerer or Druid, or go Tomelock to get the other. Considering that I'm already planning on Flames of Phlegethos and Spell Sniper plus looking hard at Elemental Adept Fire, Magic Initiate is a no go. The dip could be interesting, but I'm now understanding better why people are saying that Tomelock is almost a given.
I'm also better understanding why people feel that Eldritch Blast is such a given. It's not just that it's a great damaging cantrip particularly when invocations are involved, but it's competitors aren't always going to feel that itch. I like Toll the Dead, but the flavor doesn't scream Warlock to me. It does fill that blaster niche to some extent, but lacks the ability to crit.
The options around Hex just feel so lackluster considering the limited number of spell slots available, at least with 1st level spells. Yes, I know, short rest... more slots... yadda yadda... many more of those options make sense if I'm planning on Tomelock + Book of Ancient Secrets. The options do get better at 2nd level spells, and I haven't bothered looking at the rest yet.
As such, a warlock will either make a very flavorful but potentially minimal impact choice, a utility choice (that likely won't be used until Book of Ancient Secrets or right before a rest), or save for Expeditious Retreat as an Oh Crap button. Otherwise, cast hex, save for the next hex unless those short rests are coming like an out of shape middle aged person trying to complete a moderately steep hike (also known as me).
To be honest though...
the warlock without eldritch blast was completely worthless in battles....
outside of battle. Or when time for rituals. Was a GOD. In battles. Dead weight. 100% dead weight. Would have been better off being an Owl.
went the tomelock+book of ancient secrets and such kinda route.
super utility useful. But specifically in battle. Mostly non factor. Prep for battle or after more useful.
Blank
Thanks for the honesty.
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Plus with Maddening Hex and Relentless Hex....
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I wish Agonizing Blast worked on other things than EB. I wish I could add +CHA damage Celestial's Sacred Flame.
They get damage added to a single damage roll of Radiant/Fire right? Or am I misrememberizing?
It's a d4, once per turn. My 'locks CHA is +3 currently, at level 3.
Starting at 6th level, your link to the Celestial allows you to serve as a conduit for radiant energy. You have resistance to radiant damage, and when you cast a spell that deals radiant or fire damage, you can add your Charisma modifier to one radiant or fire damage roll of that spell against one of its targets.
So the question is, what the hell are you reading?
Hell is right! He's been lied to by the Fiend patron! *Cough* j/k
wow, brain fart from something else... it is +CHA for one roll. I guess it's the push/pull/spear Invocations that are more relevant.