I agree, but they are not going to rewrite everything to make that kind of change.
I don’t suggest that they rewrite anything other than what is in UA. I am not suggesting that they change the way racial features that are currently in print work.
Or you could not limit the ability and let players have fun flavorful abilities without falling for reactionary "balancing" without playtesting anything.
You should avoid making assumptions. Playing in three games this weekend using these subclasses. How much play testing have you done or are doing?
Changing damage types is a balanced ability. I agree that it should only be restricted to spells that do damage tho, for the damage type, absorb elements shouldn't just be "I take whatever I want whenever I want".
It isn't balanced. Changing damage types 100% of the time is broken.
Let me lead by saying that I do agree that this particular subclass is interesting, but seems overpowered in places and also doesn't hit the mark for me narratively. I think I can boil down the root cause of the issue.
Wizard subclasses outside of the major Schools of Magic have not been all that successful. This one strikes me as odd because it deviates from a design theme that at least I was mentally observing with Wizards. Because of that, the features seem to start to fall into the "power-gaming" realm and seem to shoe horn into the subclass. Now, switching damage types has a narrative explanation in here, but I feel like there are tons of other things that would have been better instead, they just wanted it in there so players would get excited to "cheat" the game by building a force ball Wizard.
Wizards need a clear design goal for the subclasses. As we hit Onomancy and now Scribes, it seems we have gotten away from what I think Wizards should be like. Wizards categorize the magic of the world, and specialize in certain aspects of these categories. To start, the PHB had the major schools of magic which was perfect. War Magic, while explicit, is and could have been more clearly designed as a mixture of Abjuration and Evocation. Bladesinging is an off shoot. If I were going to continue to design subclasses for the Wizard, I would stick with that theme. A mixture of Conjuration and Transmutation sounds like a Reality-Warping subclass. A mixture of Illusion and Enchantment sounds like a Psionic-esque class (which they tried but probably not with that design goal in mind). A mixture of Necromancy and Divination is something similar to a Medium. Maybe focus on the possible combinations a Wizard can find by combining different schools to make subclasses going forward?
For the Scribes, I'm sorry but they should have tried to clean up the Archivist. Seriously, we have the Artillerist (Weapons/Wands), Alchemist (Potions), Battlesmith (Constructs), and Armorer (Armor).... Isn't it obvious that an Artificer that makes runes, scrolls, sigils etc could be the Scribe? Its a natural fit, it just needed a better design goal.
I agree and disagree with both of you, Golaryn and Positron49.
Here's what I agree with:
Some of the wizard subclasses have been successful since the PHB. Chronurgists and Graviturgists are well-balanced (with some exceptions) and are popular. Bladesingers are fairly popular, even though there are some problems with them. War Wizards have very mixed feelings. There is controversy behind all of these subclasses. I would prefer it if we got a lot of school-mixing subclasses, but I am not upset if we get subclasses outside that model, as some subclasses seem hard to replicate. (I would like a Hypnotist, illusion-enchantment mix, Limbo mage, conjuration-transumation mix, and Spectral Wizards, necromancy-illusion mix, but I don't think we'll get those any time soon.)
They should've tried at least one more time with the Archivist without abandoning it.
A lot of the subclass should've been included in the Wizard class as a whole. The spellbook as an arcane focus, the spell scroll crafting, the spell altering to an extent.
I liked the theme of the scribes wizard, but it was executed the poorest of all of the subclasses in this UA.
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Maybe I should phrase it like this.... If you are designing a Wizard subclass for general release, try to stick to the model of school or school-mixing because those themes lead to really rich and interesting character models. If you are going to deviate from that design path, please have a great campaign setting that is going to influence your design (Dunamancy and Bladesinging) because you can use that to come up with great features. In general, deviating from that design path doesn't seem to lead to very good results (Onomancy, Scribe) because the features don't come naturally.
To the base Wizard thing, I think that this comes down to a lack of good crafting (magic or not) rules in 5e. I think many players would explore making scrolls, magic items, armor, weapons etc.. its just not all that clear (or worth it) unless the DM figures it out for them. Whether that should be a "feature" in the Wizard or not isn't something I've thought about though.
Or you could not limit the ability and let players have fun flavorful abilities without falling for reactionary "balancing" without playtesting anything.
Are you implying that you cant already reflavor things as is? Why not have your evocation wizard already cast blue fireballs that are so cold they burn? This is something that can already exist from a “flavor” perspective and you dont need a rule to tell you how/when/how often you can reflavor., this is nothing new. A feature that tales your reflavoring up a whole other level into actually having unrestricted impact on gameplay is what people, like myself, do not like
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Okay, now in seriousness, I think one thing we should remember for this conversation is that the damage-switching metamagic from the class feature variants is not official, it's just UA. I think it's a mistake to use that as a basis for judging other UA when the reality is it might disappear and never become official.
Scribe pre level 10 is the best wizard subclass that has ever been in a UA.
That's kind of the crux of it. It's a wizard subclass that's basically the best most wizardy wizard. Why then even have other wizards?
Other wizard subclasses require some specialization to benefit from their subclass features. Scribe doesn't.
It can copy wizard spells faster and cheaper without restriction to school making it have a larger arsenal of spells to choose from. In addition it doesn't need to bother considering type damage when preparing spells meaning it doesn't need as many spells as other wizards do and can benefit from non-ritual spells without even preparing them. It can benefit from those spells even if it lacks the material components necessary to cast them (such as with Chromatic Orb's 50 gp diamond requirement).
Other wizard subclasses prepare spells for day to day situations. The Scribe writes scrolls so it's nearly always prepared for every situation.
It can create spell scrolls (of any rarity) faster and cheaper than other wizards meaning there are fewer niche spells it ever has to consider preparing, instead of thinking ahead about the party's plans and preparing feather fall just in case... write a few scrolls and never bother thinking about it again. It has whatever it needs in terms of spells more or less always.
It can easily gain more spells than average, needs fewer spells than other wizards, spends fewer spell slots on niche non-ritual spells via scrolls, gets an extra prepared spell per day without the cost of a spell slot, and can fast track rituals once per day.
A lot of these features would have been less powerful on other spellcasting classes. Such as the bard, sorceror, or warlock, or even the Artificer. Putting them on a wizard is too much. In it's current form it's bonkers overpowered.
Okay, now in seriousness, I think one thing we should remember for this conversation is that the damage-switching metamagic from the class feature variants is not official, it's just UA. I think it's a mistake to use that as a basis for judgement other UA when the reality is it might disappear and never become official.
My personal opinion on this is that damage switching is strong, but not overpowered. That said, I feel that damage switching should be a part of sorcerers, not of wizards. Wizards already live a pretty good life. I'm hesitant to give them more mechanically.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
A wizard subclass letting them use one of the sorcerer's metamagics for free?
God, who would ever
EVOCATION WIZARD?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!
do such a thing?
Yeah, but the Evocation wizard's main ability is actually balanced. This one isn't. This one is largely based on dealing more damage in certain circumstances, while the Evoker's ability is to prevent damage that they'd deal to allies. There's really no reason to compare the two other than the fact sorcerers can use metamagic to do these certain things.
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Maybe I should phrase it like this.... If you are designing a Wizard subclass for general release, try to stick to the model of school or school-mixing because those themes lead to really rich and interesting character models. If you are going to deviate from that design path, please have a great campaign setting that is going to influence your design (Dunamancy and Bladesinging) because you can use that to come up with great features. In general, deviating from that design path doesn't seem to lead to very good results (Onomancy, Scribe) because the features don't come naturally.
To the base Wizard thing, I think that this comes down to a lack of good crafting (magic or not) rules in 5e. I think many players would explore making scrolls, magic items, armor, weapons etc.. its just not all that clear (or worth it) unless the DM figures it out for them. Whether that should be a "feature" in the Wizard or not isn't something I've thought about though.
Wizards are magic scholars, and spells are what they produce from their efforts. If any class outside the Artificer should be capable of making spell scrolls and making them efficiently, it's the Wizard. The only exception, as far as Wizards go, should be scrolls of divine and nature spells, which is the domain of Clerics and Druids.
The realm of the Artificer should be all magic items, IMHO.
As for Onomancy, the main issue I had with that is true name magic is very niche in the game unless you're dealing with fiends and other outsider creatures where names really matter, and even then the subclass gates that with a saving throw that these creatures are notoriously proficient at. My guess is that the next time we see onomancy, it might be a part of a subclass that focuses on working with fiends and such.
True name magic doesn't have to be restricted to Fiends. I could imagine it being a key part of Celestials, Modrons, and Slaad as well. Also, just the fact that it effects the outsider creatures more doesn't mean that it shouldn't effect humanoids as well.
Also, I am 90% sure that the next time we see an onomancer, it will be a Bard subclass.
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I get what you're saying, but another way of looking at it is that this makes the pre-existing subclasses feel almost lacking.
Maybe the cost of jotting down spells in your book shouldn't have been so expensive to begin with. Maybe the Wizard should have always been able to scribe scrolls with ease to begin with, or at least scribe those in your school with ease for the school subclasses. Maybe the Wizard should have had a magic quill to go along with their spellbook. Maybe the Wizard should have always had the option of using the book as a focus past a certain point.
In that case the solution isn't a subclass but a redesign of the base class or some other released class feature variant options, and then replace the features of the Scribe with different ones since some of those features would suddenly become meaningless.
Honestly, I agree that the Wizard should have always been able to use their spell book as an arcane focus, that just makes sense.
Okay, now in seriousness, I think one thing we should remember for this conversation is that the damage-switching metamagic from the class feature variants is not official, it's just UA. I think it's a mistake to use that as a basis for judging other UA when the reality is it might disappear and never become official.
That feature from that UA was so popular I would bet on the fact of it appearing in whatever book that the Class Feature Variants UA appears in, (Probably Xanathar's 2.0/Planescape).
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I agree, but they are not going to rewrite everything to make that kind of change.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I don’t suggest that they rewrite anything other than what is in UA. I am not suggesting that they change the way racial features that are currently in print work.
Yes, it would!
How did those other playtests go?
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
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I know, I'm just saying it would be nice.
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Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Let me lead by saying that I do agree that this particular subclass is interesting, but seems overpowered in places and also doesn't hit the mark for me narratively. I think I can boil down the root cause of the issue.
Wizard subclasses outside of the major Schools of Magic have not been all that successful. This one strikes me as odd because it deviates from a design theme that at least I was mentally observing with Wizards. Because of that, the features seem to start to fall into the "power-gaming" realm and seem to shoe horn into the subclass. Now, switching damage types has a narrative explanation in here, but I feel like there are tons of other things that would have been better instead, they just wanted it in there so players would get excited to "cheat" the game by building a force ball Wizard.
Wizards need a clear design goal for the subclasses. As we hit Onomancy and now Scribes, it seems we have gotten away from what I think Wizards should be like. Wizards categorize the magic of the world, and specialize in certain aspects of these categories. To start, the PHB had the major schools of magic which was perfect. War Magic, while explicit, is and could have been more clearly designed as a mixture of Abjuration and Evocation. Bladesinging is an off shoot. If I were going to continue to design subclasses for the Wizard, I would stick with that theme. A mixture of Conjuration and Transmutation sounds like a Reality-Warping subclass. A mixture of Illusion and Enchantment sounds like a Psionic-esque class (which they tried but probably not with that design goal in mind). A mixture of Necromancy and Divination is something similar to a Medium. Maybe focus on the possible combinations a Wizard can find by combining different schools to make subclasses going forward?
For the Scribes, I'm sorry but they should have tried to clean up the Archivist. Seriously, we have the Artillerist (Weapons/Wands), Alchemist (Potions), Battlesmith (Constructs), and Armorer (Armor).... Isn't it obvious that an Artificer that makes runes, scrolls, sigils etc could be the Scribe? Its a natural fit, it just needed a better design goal.
I disagree, almost every part of the Scribe subclass should have been core class features for the Wizard from the beginning.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I agree and disagree with both of you, Golaryn and Positron49.
Here's what I agree with:
I liked the theme of the scribes wizard, but it was executed the poorest of all of the subclasses in this UA.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
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Maybe I should phrase it like this.... If you are designing a Wizard subclass for general release, try to stick to the model of school or school-mixing because those themes lead to really rich and interesting character models. If you are going to deviate from that design path, please have a great campaign setting that is going to influence your design (Dunamancy and Bladesinging) because you can use that to come up with great features. In general, deviating from that design path doesn't seem to lead to very good results (Onomancy, Scribe) because the features don't come naturally.
To the base Wizard thing, I think that this comes down to a lack of good crafting (magic or not) rules in 5e. I think many players would explore making scrolls, magic items, armor, weapons etc.. its just not all that clear (or worth it) unless the DM figures it out for them. Whether that should be a "feature" in the Wizard or not isn't something I've thought about though.
Are you implying that you cant already reflavor things as is? Why not have your evocation wizard already cast blue fireballs that are so cold they burn? This is something that can already exist from a “flavor” perspective and you dont need a rule to tell you how/when/how often you can reflavor., this is nothing new. A feature that tales your reflavoring up a whole other level into actually having unrestricted impact on gameplay is what people, like myself, do not like
A wizard subclass letting them use one of the sorcerer's metamagics for free?
God, who would ever
EVOCATION WIZARD?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!
do such a thing?
Scribe pre level 10 is the best wizard subclass that has ever been in a UA.
Why, it's a regional variation of the time-honored children's game Gem-Dragon-Knight!
fail post.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Okay, now in seriousness, I think one thing we should remember for this conversation is that the damage-switching metamagic from the class feature variants is not official, it's just UA. I think it's a mistake to use that as a basis for judging other UA when the reality is it might disappear and never become official.
That's kind of the crux of it. It's a wizard subclass that's basically the best most wizardy wizard. Why then even have other wizards?
Other wizard subclasses require some specialization to benefit from their subclass features. Scribe doesn't.
It can copy wizard spells faster and cheaper without restriction to school making it have a larger arsenal of spells to choose from. In addition it doesn't need to bother considering type damage when preparing spells meaning it doesn't need as many spells as other wizards do and can benefit from non-ritual spells without even preparing them. It can benefit from those spells even if it lacks the material components necessary to cast them (such as with Chromatic Orb's 50 gp diamond requirement).
Other wizard subclasses prepare spells for day to day situations. The Scribe writes scrolls so it's nearly always prepared for every situation.
It can create spell scrolls (of any rarity) faster and cheaper than other wizards meaning there are fewer niche spells it ever has to consider preparing, instead of thinking ahead about the party's plans and preparing feather fall just in case... write a few scrolls and never bother thinking about it again. It has whatever it needs in terms of spells more or less always.
It can easily gain more spells than average, needs fewer spells than other wizards, spends fewer spell slots on niche non-ritual spells via scrolls, gets an extra prepared spell per day without the cost of a spell slot, and can fast track rituals once per day.
A lot of these features would have been less powerful on other spellcasting classes. Such as the bard, sorceror, or warlock, or even the Artificer.
Putting them on a wizard is too much. In it's current form it's bonkers overpowered.
My personal opinion on this is that damage switching is strong, but not overpowered. That said, I feel that damage switching should be a part of sorcerers, not of wizards. Wizards already live a pretty good life. I'm hesitant to give them more mechanically.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Yeah, but the Evocation wizard's main ability is actually balanced. This one isn't. This one is largely based on dealing more damage in certain circumstances, while the Evoker's ability is to prevent damage that they'd deal to allies. There's really no reason to compare the two other than the fact sorcerers can use metamagic to do these certain things.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
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The realm of the Artificer should be all magic items, IMHO.
True name magic doesn't have to be restricted to Fiends. I could imagine it being a key part of Celestials, Modrons, and Slaad as well. Also, just the fact that it effects the outsider creatures more doesn't mean that it shouldn't effect humanoids as well.
Also, I am 90% sure that the next time we see an onomancer, it will be a Bard subclass.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
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In that case the solution isn't a subclass but a redesign of the base class or some other released class feature variant options, and then replace the features of the Scribe with different ones since some of those features would suddenly become meaningless.
Honestly, I agree that the Wizard should have always been able to use their spell book as an arcane focus, that just makes sense.
Correction: It's the most broken wizard subclass that's ever been in a UA.
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That feature from that UA was so popular I would bet on the fact of it appearing in whatever book that the Class Feature Variants UA appears in, (Probably Xanathar's 2.0/Planescape).
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms