I'm currently DMing LMOP, and the players are kinda destroying it. Save for the times when they have the odds stacked against them, they never really even take damage. We're using the pregenerated cleric, rogue and wizard,(Dwarf Life domain cleric, evocation wizard, halfling thief). Does anyone have a way to make it harder? They're level three and I don't exactly want to TPK, but they're pretty much invincible right now. I already tried buffing the nothic when they tried to fight it, giving it multiple times to use rotting gaze while not in combat, suprise rounds, increasing save DC, and the cleric soloed it.
Any ideas?
EDIT: I was also hoping to lead into Hoard of the Dragon Queen when we're done, so should I make Venomfang or the Dragon Cultists a little more powerful?
They rest about once a day(long) and do shorts as they need to.
The other party members often fight in such a way that the cleric tanks all the damage, and because they have an AC of 18, barely anything gets through. If they do get hurt, cleric heals them up to full nearly instantly, either with channel divinity or cure wounds.
I've never run Phandelver but have heard about (and browsed it briefly).
Your issues sound like a very common problem. Monster CR is off. Adventure encounters are too easy. "PCs smash everything I throw at them", etc.
Stop thinking in terms of combat stats. What does high AC have to do with acrobatics checks? What good are loads of hit points against threats that don't deal damage? Have the Nothic (I know it's too late - but shift your thinking) pull the bridge down. Just say he is stealthed - beyond the PCs passive perception. One player gets on the bridge and the nothic drops it into the crevasse. Let them deal with the 2d6 bludgeoning damage. Let them deal with the difficult terrain that is down there. Let them figure out how to get back up to the group.
To hell with the Nothic's claw attacks. Let him wield the +1 longsword that's in the chest. Multiattack, 1st one with sword (1d8 + 3 + 1) with +1 to hit from magic is better than a claw. With 2nd attack, have it claw. Why does the sword have to be looted from the chest after the PCs have killed your monster? The Nothic has an INT of 13. That's typically above 80% of every PC you'd ever run through a game. It knows exactly what to do to maximize its combat potential. Be more clever with your monsters. Use more tactics. Use the environment. Think outside the box and lean into stuff that doesn't give two shits about AC or max hit points or heals.
Charms, Illusions, Secrets, Curses, constant - never ending, environmental damage, exhaustion, various conditions, stat drains, pure darkness, ranged combat from hard to reach spots, overwhelming numbers from betraying allies, previously hidden lackeys and minions in the shadows, an actual combat timer (you have 20 seconds to take your action, otherwise you just stand there and use the dodge action). Don't allow tactical planning mid combat. Talking out of turn uses their reaction. Range guys annoying you? Have your baddies drop prone to give disadvantage. Use each other for partial cover, and so on..
How many encounters are you throwing at them per day? If it's only 1 or 2 then they're going to absolutely nuke those encounters. Magic items will also throw off encounters.
It also sounds like you're rolling poorly (struggling to hit AC 18), it's ok, I feel you on that. Homebrew up your monsters a little with a better to hit modifier.
I've always preferred adding more enemies to making stronger enemies. When I don't feel challenged, I don't think of it like "I wish I missed more." Sprinkle in some henchmen that take advantage of the terrain and support the others. Even a CR0 can use the Help action.
Annnnnd I need help again, they shredded old owl well. I dropped a homebrew young wyvern on them and they crit it instantly, along with everything else.
I feel you. When I DMed LMoP for some friends, everything went the opposite direction. In the first encounter with the goblins, two of the four PCs dropped unconscious, and the other two were at 1 HP each. One thing I cannot vouch for enough is playing your monsters intelligently. They know how their abilities work, and they know how to maximize their usefulness. One website that's been invaluable for me in running my homebrew campaign is themonstersknow.com, which gives tactics for most of the monsters in the Monster Manual, as well as many from other sourcebooks. I hope this helps!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Homebrew (Mostly Outdated):Magic Items,Monsters,Spells,Subclasses ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
I feel you. When I DMed LMoP for some friends, everything went the opposite direction. In the first encounter with the goblins, two of the four PCs dropped unconscious, and the other two were at 1 HP each. One thing I cannot vouch for enough is playing your monsters intelligently. They know how their abilities work, and they know how to maximize their usefulness. One website that's been invaluable for me in running my homebrew campaign is themonstersknow.com, which gives tactics for most of the monsters in the Monster Manual, as well as many from other sourcebooks. I hope this helps!
Thank you!
How do I deal with the cleric's 20 Ac though? (Without rust monsters
Spells spells and more spells, or have the creatures bypass the cleric and target the squishing. Also ac 20? Do they have full plate mail on?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Spells spells and more spells, or have the creatures bypass the cleric and target the squishing. Also ac 20? Do they have full plate mail on?
Nah. Chainmail, Shield and Shield of Faith.
One thing you can do is give monsters dispel magic 1/Day, or add it to their known spells if they're a spellcaster. That should knock them down to a slightly more manageable AC 18. Keep in mind the shield of faith is a concentration spell, so the cleric has to make a saving throw each time they take damage or they'll be forced to drop it. If you're comfortable with doing more homebrew, you can give monsters abilities that rely on saving throws, not attack rolls, negating the usefulness of a high AC. But don't go too far. If the cleric begins feel like they aren't able to tank at all, and their abilities are useless, then neither you or they will be happy.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Homebrew (Mostly Outdated):Magic Items,Monsters,Spells,Subclasses ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
Spells spells and more spells, or have the creatures bypass the cleric and target the squishing. Also ac 20? Do they have full plate mail on?
Nah. Chainmail, Shield and Shield of Faith.
One thing you can do is give monsters dispel magic 1/Day, or add it to their known spells if they're a spellcaster. That should knock them down to a slightly more manageable AC 18. Keep in mind the shield of faith is a concentration spell, so the cleric has to make a saving throw each time they take damage or they'll be forced to drop it. If you're comfortable with doing more homebrew, you can give monsters abilities that rely on saving throws, not attack rolls, negating the usefulness of a high AC. But don't go too far. If the cleric begins feel like they aren't able to tank at all, and their abilities are useless, then neither you or they will be happy.
I feel you. When I DMed LMoP for some friends, everything went the opposite direction. In the first encounter with the goblins, two of the four PCs dropped unconscious, and the other two were at 1 HP each. One thing I cannot vouch for enough is playing your monsters intelligently. They know how their abilities work, and they know how to maximize their usefulness. One website that's been invaluable for me in running my homebrew campaign is themonstersknow.com, which gives tactics for most of the monsters in the Monster Manual, as well as many from other sourcebooks. I hope this helps!
Thank you!
How do I deal with the cleric's 20 Ac though? (Without rust monsters
The easiest way is not targeting him. It’d be wrong to always go after the other characters exclusively, for sure, but monsters can employ basic tactics just as well as the PCs. Nobody in their right mind keeps throwing everything at the unassailable bastion PC while the more easily hit PCs get to do what they want. Players will prioritize the biggest threats and the easiest enemies to remove, NPCs should favour similar approaches. Every spell slot used for healing is one not available for SoF or another spell. That aside, Shield of Faith is 10m/casting; the cleric shouldn’t have it up at the start of combat unless the PCs get the drop on the enemies. Monsters who ambush the PCs or get a higher initiative than the cleric get to target him it a slightly easier 18 AC.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
As fun as that would be, that would kill them all.
Depends on how quickly they can kill the caster. It is single target concentration, so the caster can only hit one of them at a time that way. It does, meanwhile, introduce an element of danger
Yeah, but they might not recognize it, they might not kill the caster, etc.
How are you doing your dice rolls? Are you playing online and using an online roller or are they rolling real dice at home and just telling you what they got? I have played in groups using the pregen's and they are really badly made, you shouldn't be having a lot of difficulty hitting them. Only 2 characters, the cleric and one of the fighters has a high ac and even then they can still be hit by other things, My cleric actually got taken down by the bugbear Klar in the first goblin caves, admittedly it was a crit but still. It isn't impossible. Fight tactically, use the enemies intelligently, move them around into flanking positions to get advantage. If you just line them up one behind the other then you are going to do nothing. Have the enemies in the back use their ranged weapons and so on. It sounds a lot like you aren't playing enemies correctly rather than the PC's being over powered. Finally, it is a beginner module meant to teach the game to new players so if you are using it with experienced players then yes, they will have an easier time of it.
2 dragons 1 is the one inclouded the other is one that dogs the party as they travel if killed it is dead but if it survives it teams up with the first one to double team the party at the end
Naibs of Dune, I'm the supreme meowster of the cult of cats!, Head lobotomizer of the OIADSB cult, I've got a thieves guild, come join, Warlock main in D2.
Don't forget to love each other!
I play characters at taverns.
[ He/him ] [Shout out to my 11 followers] [ If you think I haven't responded to something check my posts.]
Join Calius & Kothar industries. We have good pay, plus dental! see tavern for details
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hi,
I'm currently DMing LMOP, and the players are kinda destroying it. Save for the times when they have the odds stacked against them, they never really even take damage. We're using the pregenerated cleric, rogue and wizard,(Dwarf Life domain cleric, evocation wizard, halfling thief). Does anyone have a way to make it harder? They're level three and I don't exactly want to TPK, but they're pretty much invincible right now. I already tried buffing the nothic when they tried to fight it, giving it multiple times to use rotting gaze while not in combat, suprise rounds, increasing save DC, and the cleric soloed it.
Any ideas?
EDIT: I was also hoping to lead into Hoard of the Dragon Queen when we're done, so should I make Venomfang or the Dragon Cultists a little more powerful?
The fire giants made a gundam wheeeeee
Are they not taking damage at all, or is the cleric able to heal all the damage?
How often are they resting?
They rest about once a day(long) and do shorts as they need to.
The other party members often fight in such a way that the cleric tanks all the damage, and because they have an AC of 18, barely anything gets through. If they do get hurt, cleric heals them up to full nearly instantly, either with channel divinity or cure wounds.
The fire giants made a gundam wheeeeee
I've never run Phandelver but have heard about (and browsed it briefly).
Your issues sound like a very common problem. Monster CR is off. Adventure encounters are too easy. "PCs smash everything I throw at them", etc.
Stop thinking in terms of combat stats. What does high AC have to do with acrobatics checks? What good are loads of hit points against threats that don't deal damage? Have the Nothic (I know it's too late - but shift your thinking) pull the bridge down. Just say he is stealthed - beyond the PCs passive perception. One player gets on the bridge and the nothic drops it into the crevasse. Let them deal with the 2d6 bludgeoning damage. Let them deal with the difficult terrain that is down there. Let them figure out how to get back up to the group.
To hell with the Nothic's claw attacks. Let him wield the +1 longsword that's in the chest. Multiattack, 1st one with sword (1d8 + 3 + 1) with +1 to hit from magic is better than a claw. With 2nd attack, have it claw. Why does the sword have to be looted from the chest after the PCs have killed your monster? The Nothic has an INT of 13. That's typically above 80% of every PC you'd ever run through a game. It knows exactly what to do to maximize its combat potential. Be more clever with your monsters. Use more tactics. Use the environment. Think outside the box and lean into stuff that doesn't give two shits about AC or max hit points or heals.
Charms, Illusions, Secrets, Curses, constant - never ending, environmental damage, exhaustion, various conditions, stat drains, pure darkness, ranged combat from hard to reach spots, overwhelming numbers from betraying allies, previously hidden lackeys and minions in the shadows, an actual combat timer (you have 20 seconds to take your action, otherwise you just stand there and use the dodge action). Don't allow tactical planning mid combat. Talking out of turn uses their reaction. Range guys annoying you? Have your baddies drop prone to give disadvantage. Use each other for partial cover, and so on..
All things Lich - DM tips, tricks, and other creative shenanigans
You know, that helped a lot. Thanks!
By the way, about the bridge collapse...the PCs intentionally collapsed the bridge.
The fire giants made a gundam wheeeeee
How many encounters are you throwing at them per day? If it's only 1 or 2 then they're going to absolutely nuke those encounters. Magic items will also throw off encounters.
It also sounds like you're rolling poorly (struggling to hit AC 18), it's ok, I feel you on that. Homebrew up your monsters a little with a better to hit modifier.
Lightning Strike - A rebranded Fire Bolt for Wizards & Sorcerers.
Spirit Bomb - A holy fireball for Clerics, Paladins, & Divine Soul Sorcerers!
Sword Dancer - A Cleric subclass specifically for the Drow goddess Eilistraee.
Quicksilver & The Scarlet Witch - A pair of magical firearms for your Gunslinger or Artificer.
I've always preferred adding more enemies to making stronger enemies. When I don't feel challenged, I don't think of it like "I wish I missed more." Sprinkle in some henchmen that take advantage of the terrain and support the others. Even a CR0 can use the Help action.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
dont know if this will help, but i found a site a while ago that allows you to scale the fights depending on party numbers and levels
http://haluz.org/lmop/index.php
Annnnnd I need help again, they shredded old owl well. I dropped a homebrew young wyvern on them and they crit it instantly, along with everything else.
The fire giants made a gundam wheeeeee
I feel you. When I DMed LMoP for some friends, everything went the opposite direction. In the first encounter with the goblins, two of the four PCs dropped unconscious, and the other two were at 1 HP each. One thing I cannot vouch for enough is playing your monsters intelligently. They know how their abilities work, and they know how to maximize their usefulness. One website that's been invaluable for me in running my homebrew campaign is themonstersknow.com, which gives tactics for most of the monsters in the Monster Manual, as well as many from other sourcebooks. I hope this helps!
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homebrew (Mostly Outdated): Magic Items, Monsters, Spells, Subclasses
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
Thank you!
How do I deal with the cleric's 20 Ac though? (Without rust monsters
The fire giants made a gundam wheeeeee
Spells spells and more spells, or have the creatures bypass the cleric and target the squishing. Also ac 20? Do they have full plate mail on?
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Nah. Chainmail, Shield and Shield of Faith.
The fire giants made a gundam wheeeeee
One thing you can do is give monsters dispel magic 1/Day, or add it to their known spells if they're a spellcaster. That should knock them down to a slightly more manageable AC 18. Keep in mind the shield of faith is a concentration spell, so the cleric has to make a saving throw each time they take damage or they'll be forced to drop it. If you're comfortable with doing more homebrew, you can give monsters abilities that rely on saving throws, not attack rolls, negating the usefulness of a high AC. But don't go too far. If the cleric begins feel like they aren't able to tank at all, and their abilities are useless, then neither you or they will be happy.
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homebrew (Mostly Outdated): Magic Items, Monsters, Spells, Subclasses
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
Thanks.
The fire giants made a gundam wheeeeee
The easiest way is not targeting him. It’d be wrong to always go after the other characters exclusively, for sure, but monsters can employ basic tactics just as well as the PCs. Nobody in their right mind keeps throwing everything at the unassailable bastion PC while the more easily hit PCs get to do what they want. Players will prioritize the biggest threats and the easiest enemies to remove, NPCs should favour similar approaches. Every spell slot used for healing is one not available for SoF or another spell. That aside, Shield of Faith is 10m/casting; the cleric shouldn’t have it up at the start of combat unless the PCs get the drop on the enemies. Monsters who ambush the PCs or get a higher initiative than the cleric get to target him it a slightly easier 18 AC.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
As fun as that would be, that would kill them all.
The fire giants made a gundam wheeeeee
Yeah, but they might not recognize it, they might not kill the caster, etc.
The fire giants made a gundam wheeeeee
How are you doing your dice rolls? Are you playing online and using an online roller or are they rolling real dice at home and just telling you what they got? I have played in groups using the pregen's and they are really badly made, you shouldn't be having a lot of difficulty hitting them. Only 2 characters, the cleric and one of the fighters has a high ac and even then they can still be hit by other things, My cleric actually got taken down by the bugbear Klar in the first goblin caves, admittedly it was a crit but still. It isn't impossible. Fight tactically, use the enemies intelligently, move them around into flanking positions to get advantage. If you just line them up one behind the other then you are going to do nothing. Have the enemies in the back use their ranged weapons and so on. It sounds a lot like you aren't playing enemies correctly rather than the PC's being over powered. Finally, it is a beginner module meant to teach the game to new players so if you are using it with experienced players then yes, they will have an easier time of it.
2 dragons 1 is the one inclouded the other is one that dogs the party as they travel if killed it is dead but if it survives it teams up with the first one to double team the party at the end
Naibs of Dune, I'm the supreme meowster of the cult of cats!, Head lobotomizer of the OIADSB cult, I've got a thieves guild, come join, Warlock main in D2.
Don't forget to love each other!
I play characters at taverns.
[ He/him ] [Shout out to my 11 followers] [ If you think I haven't responded to something check my posts.]
Join Calius & Kothar industries. We have good pay, plus dental! see tavern for details