So I'm confused, I now have to rebuy Eberron to get the full stuff? I feel as if I was lied to about this. I wouldn't have bought Wayfinder's if I knew it was going to be getting Eberron Lite.
Unless I'm completely misunderstanding things, but I'm getting different answers.
There's another Eberron book coming out with new stuff for Eberron. They are also updating Wayfinder's Guide, so if you bought it through Beyond or DM's Guild, you will be getting an update and some new content for free, like the Artificer class with one subclass. But yes, you will need to buy the new book to get all the new stuff.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
There's another Eberron book coming out with new stuff for Eberron. They are also updating Wayfinder's Guide, so if you bought it through Beyond or DM's Guild, you will be getting an update and some new content for free, like the Artificer class with one subclass. But yes, you will need to buy the new book to get all the new stuff.
o ok so we got lied to saying we wouldn't need to buy anything new. Cool... Thanks WOTC.
Pretty sure they never promised Wayfinder's Guide was going to be the one and only definitive Eberron product. What, did you expect them to never release another book set in the Sword Coast after Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide?
Mechanically all you'll be missing is 2 alternate takes on existing races and some Artificer subclasses. You can buy those for a few bucks on DDB if that's all you care about. If you actually want the new adventure and lore that comes with the new book then naturally you should have to pay what those are worth too.
I think the point being made is that The Wayfinder's Guide is looking to be a complete subset of the new book, containing nothing that's unique to it. This is something that was specifically asked about; something which we were assured would not be the case.
I think the point being made is that The Wayfinder's Guide is looking to be a complete subset of the new book, containing nothing that's unique to it. This is something that was specifically asked about; something which we were assured would not be the case.
They said what now?
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I think the point being made is that The Wayfinder's Guide is looking to be a complete subset of the new book, containing nothing that's unique to it. This is something that was specifically asked about; something which we were assured would not be the case.
Literally no one ever said the Wayfinder’s Guide would contain rules or mechanics that wouldn’t be in any other Eberron book. Wizards always acknowledged that there would be a lot of overlap, but that the setting content and fluff would diversify it from other products. That hasn’t changed. Nothing is being removed from the Wayfinder’s Guide. In fact, the artificer is being [i]added[/i] to it. Everyone who bought it is getting exactly what they always knew they’d get. That a second book also contains additional stuff doesn’t change that.
D&D Beyond makes it easy to buy just the additional mechanics if you don’t care about the fluff. And if you DO want the fluff, that’s different between the two books, so... really not sure what anyone could possibly have to complain about.
I think the point being made is that The Wayfinder's Guide is looking to be a complete subset of the new book, containing nothing that's unique to it. This is something that was specifically asked about; something which we were assured would not be the case.
Literally no one ever said the Wayfinder’s Guide would contain rules or mechanics that wouldn’t be in any other Eberron book. Wizards always acknowledged that there would be a lot of overlap, but that the setting content and fluff would diversify it from other products. That hasn’t changed. Nothing is being removed from the Wayfinder’s Guide. In fact, the artificer is being [i]added[/i] to it. Everyone who bought it is getting exactly what they always knew they’d get. That a second book also contains additional stuff doesn’t change that.
D&D Beyond makes it easy to buy just the additional mechanics if you don’t care about the fluff. And if you DO want the fluff, that’s different between the two books, so... really not sure what anyone could possibly have to complain about.
No they literally said we wouldn't have to buy a new book.
Well, I don`t know and don`t believe in any official statement where they say Wayfinder`s would be the only Eberron book. I do remember though that I read either at the store page on Fantasy Grounds, or even in the book itself that it was an ongoing project, that not all the rules were there and that as they better adapt Eberron to 5e they would update the content and that we wouldn`t have to pay for a Eberron Campaign setting because that book would have the related info.
Words aside, what I think is important is to understand what really happened instead of find undeniable truths and words that may lead to different meanings. What they did in my opinion was to test how popular Eberron really is. Before invest on it, they created a product to attend to a demand, and if it really kicked in, then they would consider releasing a official Campaign Setting. I don`t think they lied about that. It was clear to me Wayfinder`s was not the official campaign setting, and that an Eberron campaign setting was not certain.
So the question about how wrong is what they are doing can only be answered when the book is out. If they update Wayfinder, and the differences between both are not abysmal, than they are ok in my opinion. I don`t think that`s what is going to happen, and I will feel used if I have to buy a new Eberron book, since they said I could perfectly lean on Wayfinder`s only to run my campaigns. To be able to run my campaigns with Wayfinder`s is subjective, and that`s where the murky, shade waters of this discussion lies.
I would like to have Eberron books in my bookshelf, so I would gladly buy another book. But I won`t in no way buy another Eberron book in Fantasy Grounds, not fair, and if it comes to that I may find myself voting for buying neither just to no encourage what I don`t agree with.
When Wayfinders was released on DMsGuild, Mike Mearls of Wizards of the Coast explained that there might later be an Eberron hardcover. He went on to say that if there was a hardcover, much of the crunch from Wayfinders would be reprinted in that potential hardcover, but that their intention was that there would be enough difference between the two to make it worthwhile for customers to have both. My understanding from those comments was that very little if any of the “fluff” content would be repeated.
Wizard’s also just released a video with Greg Tito and Jeremy Crawford about Eberron Rising. The first part is about the new cover art, but they also go into detail about the relationship between Wayfinders and Eberron Rising. They confirm that all of the mechanical bits (races, etc) that first appeared in Wayfinders and have been updated/changed will get updated in Wayfinders: If you bought it on DMsGuild, there will be an updated pdf; if you bought it here, it will be updated here. Those updates will go live the day Rising is released. They also confirmed that Wayfinders will get the artificer and one subclass-the alchemist.
As has already been pointed out, if someone has already purchased Wayfinders here, they wouldn’t have to purchase Rising if all they wanted was the crunch: The crunch in Wayfinders will be updated, and the additional crunch elements from Rising can be purchased individually.
So, from where I sit, I don’t believe that Wizards lied about this. Everything that has been announced recently is consistent with what I heard from WOTC when Wayfinders was first released. Tito and Crawford have recently confirmed that this is still the case. Furthermore, this is consistent with WOTC ‘s publishing strategy. They’ve been very clear that they are intentional about publishing books in such a way that one only needs the core three to make full use of any “non core” book. So, for example, every adventure published since Volo’s has included in its appendix the stat blocks and descriptions of any Volo’s monsters that are used in the the adventure. Reproducing the crunch from Wayfinders in Rising seems to me to be analogous.
All that said, there’s no requirement to buy Rising. Everyone has to make their own choices about whether or not it is worth it.
And, as I’ve already said, that’s still true. Whatever updates they’re making to the content people already paid for in Wayfinder’s Guide are being applied to the Wayfinder’s Guide on whatever platform people have it on. You don’t need to buy Rising from the Last War to get the updated content. I’m really confused as to what you’re not getting?
You might fel you were lied to but you were not. If anything they went out of their way to make sure wayfarers guide continued to have individual value while making a new product that expands the world.
I bought the book so that I could have the artificer. I definitely feel mislead over the fact Wayfinder's is not getting the full class. The fact everything is reproduced is frustrating, but more understandable. But only giving 1/3 of the class after promising it would be included is deceptive.
Either way, Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron was never intended to be a final product. They flat out said as much. Taken right from the webpage to buy the book here o n DNDBeyond:
"The game mechanics here are usable in your campaign, but at this time they aren’t officially part of the game and aren’t permitted in D&D Adventurers League events. These mechanics will evolve based on player feedback. This is a living document, and as these concepts are refined, this book will also be updated for free; so you will be kept up to date with any changes that are made to it."
Wayfinder's was intended to be a prerelease E-book that was borderline Unearthed Arcana. It was intended for play testing. The new Eberron book will be the final product that includes everything in Wayfinder's as well as new story content. Sorry if you feel like that was misleading. It was a bit confusing. The good news is that it appears all the mechanical bits will be updated in the e-book. You'll almost certainly be able to buy individual items on DNDbeyond the same way you can with everything else.
A lot of the mechanical stuff from the new book will be in the updated wayfinder's guide, but there's also a bit of it that won't be. Everything mechanical in the wayfinder's guide will be in the new book. It is expected, though not confirmed, that the lore in wayfinder's will not be reproduced in the new book since they promised that there would be good reason to own both.
I definitely feel like Wayfinder's marketing was handled poorly. To the point where I question the ethics surrounding it. I realize this is more WotC's fault that D&D Beyond's. But we were told that the Artificer was going to be updated to Wayfinder's once it was released, and now we're being told we only get one subclass.
I paid $20 for something based on what I was told would be in the product. I would not have dropped that money if I hadn't been assured that the Artificer would be included with it. The bulk of what I wanted from that $20 was the Artificer. Since we can't homebrew base classes on DDB, purchasing the content would be the only way to have access.
When it was released there was a kerfuffle about why we were paying for play test content, basically glorified UA material. And we were told that nothing would be made "obsolete" by a new Eberron hardcover release. While the Artificer isn't being made obsolete, it does seem that it's being partially removed from product that is bought and paid for. Even just a few weeks ago I asked if Artificer was still going to be included in Wayfinder's as promised and was linked to a comment from one of the devs that it indeed would be. But from what I'm reading here, that's only partially true.
This wouldn't be near as much of an issue if that $20 would roll in to an equitable discount on the new product. I still wouldn't be super comfortable with it, but I would feel less like I was scammed. Right now I feel like I was misled in to subsidizing the development process for the content of a book that I now have to pay full price for if I want access.
But hey, you know, buyer beware. Sure.
I can guarantee I won't be investing in anything resembling Wayfinder's in the future.
The only thing that is clear is that nobody was completely sure what they were buying when the product came out. The forums here reflected that when it was released. Assurances were made, and in at least some respects, assurances aren't being upheld.
I am all for the dream of this project here at DDB. You guys put in a lot of work. I get that this isn't really your fault. You don't have control over WotC marketing. But since this is the outlet I used to purchase this content it seems only appropriate that this is the forum I'd use to air my grievance.
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So I'm confused, I now have to rebuy Eberron to get the full stuff? I feel as if I was lied to about this. I wouldn't have bought Wayfinder's if I knew it was going to be getting Eberron Lite.
Unless I'm completely misunderstanding things, but I'm getting different answers.
There's another Eberron book coming out with new stuff for Eberron. They are also updating Wayfinder's Guide, so if you bought it through Beyond or DM's Guild, you will be getting an update and some new content for free, like the Artificer class with one subclass. But yes, you will need to buy the new book to get all the new stuff.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
o ok so we got lied to saying we wouldn't need to buy anything new. Cool... Thanks WOTC.
Pretty sure they never promised Wayfinder's Guide was going to be the one and only definitive Eberron product. What, did you expect them to never release another book set in the Sword Coast after Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide?
Mechanically all you'll be missing is 2 alternate takes on existing races and some Artificer subclasses. You can buy those for a few bucks on DDB if that's all you care about. If you actually want the new adventure and lore that comes with the new book then naturally you should have to pay what those are worth too.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
I think the point being made is that The Wayfinder's Guide is looking to be a complete subset of the new book, containing nothing that's unique to it. This is something that was specifically asked about; something which we were assured would not be the case.
They said what now?
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Literally no one ever said the Wayfinder’s Guide would contain rules or mechanics that wouldn’t be in any other Eberron book. Wizards always acknowledged that there would be a lot of overlap, but that the setting content and fluff would diversify it from other products. That hasn’t changed. Nothing is being removed from the Wayfinder’s Guide. In fact, the artificer is being [i]added[/i] to it. Everyone who bought it is getting exactly what they always knew they’d get. That a second book also contains additional stuff doesn’t change that.
D&D Beyond makes it easy to buy just the additional mechanics if you don’t care about the fluff. And if you DO want the fluff, that’s different between the two books, so... really not sure what anyone could possibly have to complain about.
No they literally said we wouldn't have to buy a new book.
Might I get a link to where this was said, please?
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Well, I don`t know and don`t believe in any official statement where they say Wayfinder`s would be the only Eberron book. I do remember though that I read either at the store page on Fantasy Grounds, or even in the book itself that it was an ongoing project, that not all the rules were there and that as they better adapt Eberron to 5e they would update the content and that we wouldn`t have to pay for a Eberron Campaign setting because that book would have the related info.
Words aside, what I think is important is to understand what really happened instead of find undeniable truths and words that may lead to different meanings. What they did in my opinion was to test how popular Eberron really is. Before invest on it, they created a product to attend to a demand, and if it really kicked in, then they would consider releasing a official Campaign Setting. I don`t think they lied about that. It was clear to me Wayfinder`s was not the official campaign setting, and that an Eberron campaign setting was not certain.
So the question about how wrong is what they are doing can only be answered when the book is out. If they update Wayfinder, and the differences between both are not abysmal, than they are ok in my opinion. I don`t think that`s what is going to happen, and I will feel used if I have to buy a new Eberron book, since they said I could perfectly lean on Wayfinder`s only to run my campaigns. To be able to run my campaigns with Wayfinder`s is subjective, and that`s where the murky, shade waters of this discussion lies.
I would like to have Eberron books in my bookshelf, so I would gladly buy another book. But I won`t in no way buy another Eberron book in Fantasy Grounds, not fair, and if it comes to that I may find myself voting for buying neither just to no encourage what I don`t agree with.
When Wayfinders was released on DMsGuild, Mike Mearls of Wizards of the Coast explained that there might later be an Eberron hardcover. He went on to say that if there was a hardcover, much of the crunch from Wayfinders would be reprinted in that potential hardcover, but that their intention was that there would be enough difference between the two to make it worthwhile for customers to have both. My understanding from those comments was that very little if any of the “fluff” content would be repeated.
Wizard’s also just released a video with Greg Tito and Jeremy Crawford about Eberron Rising. The first part is about the new cover art, but they also go into detail about the relationship between Wayfinders and Eberron Rising. They confirm that all of the mechanical bits (races, etc) that first appeared in Wayfinders and have been updated/changed will get updated in Wayfinders: If you bought it on DMsGuild, there will be an updated pdf; if you bought it here, it will be updated here. Those updates will go live the day Rising is released. They also confirmed that Wayfinders will get the artificer and one subclass-the alchemist.
As has already been pointed out, if someone has already purchased Wayfinders here, they wouldn’t have to purchase Rising if all they wanted was the crunch: The crunch in Wayfinders will be updated, and the additional crunch elements from Rising can be purchased individually.
So, from where I sit, I don’t believe that Wizards lied about this. Everything that has been announced recently is consistent with what I heard from WOTC when Wayfinders was first released. Tito and Crawford have recently confirmed that this is still the case. Furthermore, this is consistent with WOTC ‘s publishing strategy. They’ve been very clear that they are intentional about publishing books in such a way that one only needs the core three to make full use of any “non core” book. So, for example, every adventure published since Volo’s has included in its appendix the stat blocks and descriptions of any Volo’s monsters that are used in the the adventure. Reproducing the crunch from Wayfinders in Rising seems to me to be analogous.
All that said, there’s no requirement to buy Rising. Everyone has to make their own choices about whether or not it is worth it.
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
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And, as I’ve already said, that’s still true. Whatever updates they’re making to the content people already paid for in Wayfinder’s Guide are being applied to the Wayfinder’s Guide on whatever platform people have it on. You don’t need to buy Rising from the Last War to get the updated content. I’m really confused as to what you’re not getting?
You might fel you were lied to but you were not. If anything they went out of their way to make sure wayfarers guide continued to have individual value while making a new product that expands the world.
My 2 cents it was sold as a living document with the artificer not a third of it. So instead of a living document I got one on basically life support.
I bought the book so that I could have the artificer. I definitely feel mislead over the fact Wayfinder's is not getting the full class. The fact everything is reproduced is frustrating, but more understandable. But only giving 1/3 of the class after promising it would be included is deceptive.
They said Wayfinder's guide would be updated over time. Are they not updating it to include the mechanical stuff from the new book?
Either way, Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron was never intended to be a final product. They flat out said as much. Taken right from the webpage to buy the book here o n DNDBeyond:
"The game mechanics here are usable in your campaign, but at this time they aren’t officially part of the game and aren’t permitted in D&D Adventurers League events. These mechanics will evolve based on player feedback. This is a living document, and as these concepts are refined, this book will also be updated for free; so you will be kept up to date with any changes that are made to it."
Wayfinder's was intended to be a prerelease E-book that was borderline Unearthed Arcana. It was intended for play testing. The new Eberron book will be the final product that includes everything in Wayfinder's as well as new story content. Sorry if you feel like that was misleading. It was a bit confusing. The good news is that it appears all the mechanical bits will be updated in the e-book. You'll almost certainly be able to buy individual items on DNDbeyond the same way you can with everything else.
A lot of the mechanical stuff from the new book will be in the updated wayfinder's guide, but there's also a bit of it that won't be. Everything mechanical in the wayfinder's guide will be in the new book. It is expected, though not confirmed, that the lore in wayfinder's will not be reproduced in the new book since they promised that there would be good reason to own both.
I definitely feel like Wayfinder's marketing was handled poorly. To the point where I question the ethics surrounding it. I realize this is more WotC's fault that D&D Beyond's. But we were told that the Artificer was going to be updated to Wayfinder's once it was released, and now we're being told we only get one subclass.
I paid $20 for something based on what I was told would be in the product. I would not have dropped that money if I hadn't been assured that the Artificer would be included with it. The bulk of what I wanted from that $20 was the Artificer. Since we can't homebrew base classes on DDB, purchasing the content would be the only way to have access.
When it was released there was a kerfuffle about why we were paying for play test content, basically glorified UA material. And we were told that nothing would be made "obsolete" by a new Eberron hardcover release. While the Artificer isn't being made obsolete, it does seem that it's being partially removed from product that is bought and paid for. Even just a few weeks ago I asked if Artificer was still going to be included in Wayfinder's as promised and was linked to a comment from one of the devs that it indeed would be. But from what I'm reading here, that's only partially true.
This wouldn't be near as much of an issue if that $20 would roll in to an equitable discount on the new product. I still wouldn't be super comfortable with it, but I would feel less like I was scammed. Right now I feel like I was misled in to subsidizing the development process for the content of a book that I now have to pay full price for if I want access.
But hey, you know, buyer beware. Sure.
I can guarantee I won't be investing in anything resembling Wayfinder's in the future.
The only thing that is clear is that nobody was completely sure what they were buying when the product came out. The forums here reflected that when it was released. Assurances were made, and in at least some respects, assurances aren't being upheld.
I am all for the dream of this project here at DDB. You guys put in a lot of work. I get that this isn't really your fault. You don't have control over WotC marketing. But since this is the outlet I used to purchase this content it seems only appropriate that this is the forum I'd use to air my grievance.